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Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition |OT| Two girls, one motivated Vergil

This list is actually 17-18 months old. We've already sent it to devs back in 2015. And back then, Greg actually noticed it and took the time to come here and gather more info about it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188402111&postcount=5909

We decided to resend it now, mainly for these reasons:

1) Getting them to say something about DMC5 at E3.
2) A reminder of stuff that we would like to see as possible DLCs for DMC5 (stuff like legacy weapons and such)
3) And most importantly, give them ideas for future games beyond the next entry.
 

Sesha

Member
At best it would have some influence on DLC. At any rate, us having any influence whatsoever on the game or future games makes it worth it IMO. Sometimes it doesn't take much to influence a developer. They're as human as everyone. They're not all-knowing and don't have precog, and are as prone to biases and myopia as anyone. It's possible for them to read, hear or see something and be inspired to add, remove or change something in the game.

Maybe we should add a "at least for the love of Sparda add a boss rush mode". :p

Anyway, 30 more days until Microsoft's E3 press conference. 31 until Sony's.
 
I can't believe DMC has been gone for such a long time that we actually got to see the evolution of Musou before we've heard anything about the next DMC. Hahaha... haha... ha... *sniff*
 
Right, but most of those requests sound like main features to me. To be said, this will be the first time i'll probably buy every bit of post-release DLC from a single game lol

I think that if Capcom is smart about this, they'll design the overall framework of the game such that it's sort of naturally receptive to DLC (i.e. some sort of arena mode to dump future content into at the very least).
 
LOL what evolution?

Still the same generic garbage combat game it has always been.
We still haven't seen a single clip from that game, Dah. At least give them the benefit of the doubt lol

And even if combat is still shit, they've completely changed the structure of the game. From crappy arena like stages to beautiful (at least in the screens) OW. That counts as an evolution in my book. Not the mention the other traversal mechanics like climbing and stuff that they've added to the game.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Who the hell cares if it's open world? You are going to be traversing bland and barren brown open fields with nothing interesting in them. And they will be littered with dumb AI who couldn't scratch their asses to save their lives.

Yet again, these Musou guys are focusing on changing something that doesn't need changing to begin with. Which means they are not going to be changing the actual things they should've changed a decade ago.

What truly sucks is that they implement the same crap game design to their other Musous too rather than using them as a base to generate fresh ideas. Berserk Musou is god damn shit son though at least it's not as bad as the Berserk 2016/2017 anime.


In the end these games are comfort food for the average Japanese pleb who can't be bothered to learn mechanics in an action game. Mash []/Triangle, press Circle for cool shit while killing a million dumb fodder enemies.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Open world sucks. That's a honeymoon that's long over.
It's great when it's done very well but the cost/benefit is very difficult to achieve especially with games that don't require it. You end up spending a ton of resources that might end up spreading your game out too thin.

Darksiders 2 is a prime example of this. I guess DS was always technically open world but DS2 went full blown with it. Made the whole experience a lot worse.

On the other end we have stuff like Witcher 3 and Horizon Dawn which are designed around open world, questing, NPCs, crafting etc. Those games don't have a huge focus on tight combat/mechanics so they can get away with having stuff like 30FPS.


I think MGSV is another good open world game mechanically. 60FPS, great game play, superb AI... just that the open world itself is bland and empty. They probably should've just expanded the Ground Zero structure to the full game... that's still the best section in MGSV hands down because it's not open world, it's semi open. Though Kojima is a ridiculous ambitious developer and he was going to make MGS open world one way or another.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
It's great when it's done very well but the cost/benefit is very difficult to achieve especially with games that don't require it. You end up spending a ton of resources that might end up spreading your game out too thin.

Darksiders 2 is a prime example of this. I guess DS was always technically open world but DS2 went full blown with it. Made the whole experience a lot worse.

On the other end we have stuff like Witcher 3 and Horizon Dawn which are designed around open world, questing, NPCs, crafting etc. Those games don't have a huge focus on tight combat/mechanics so they can get away with having stuff like 30FPS.


I think MGSV is another good open world game mechanically. 60FPS, great game play, superb AI... just that the open world itself is bland and empty. They probably should've just expanded the Ground Zero structure to the full game... that's still the best section in MGSV hands down because it's not open world, it's semi open. Though Kojima is a ridiculous ambitious developer and he was going to make MGS open world one way or another.

Extremely few games do open world well. In most scenarios, it's hamfisted into a game where it doesn't belong to add quality that doesn't exist, and instead dilutes the experience with mediocrity.

I agree. If it's part of the focus, a part of the central design, and the development team is capable of doing it well, then it can work. But most recently we've seen a fallout with open world games because publishers see it fit to cram it down places where it had no business being. And the repercussions of such an action is that now people tend to audibly groan when they when they hear open world, because they know it tends to lead to missed opportunities and broken promises.
 
Extremely few games do open world well. In most scenarios, it's hamfisted into a game where it doesn't belong to add quality that doesn't exist, and instead dilutes the experience with mediocrity.

I agree. If it's part of the focus, a part of the central design, and the development team is capable of doing it well, then it can work. But most recently we've seen a fallout with open world games because publishers see it fit to cram it down places where it had no business being.
I always found well developed hub worlds that are smaller better than most open world games. If DMC5 did a Ninja Gaiden Black like world that'd be great (but DMC sort of has that can go back to certain areas sort of feel). But I'd be pretty disappointed if DMC5 was open world because I'd known that other areas weren't as developed (or we could have had more weapons, etc)...
 
I'd rather see DMC5 adopt either the mini-missions structure I've talked about or something closer to the Demon's Souls structure than a fully open world - not to put too fine a point on it, but I don't fully trust Capcom to get the open world right in a hitherto very not-open-world series like DMC, and I'd rather see them adopt a structure that's easier to pull off, friendlier to DLC, lays the groundwork for the series to clearly have a future, and allows Itsuno to concentrate on absolutely nailing the things that matter most.
 
Who the hell cares if it's open world? You are going to be traversing bland and barren brown open fields with nothing interesting in them. And they will be littered with dumb AI who couldn't scratch their asses to save their lives.

Yet again, these Musou guys are focusing on changing something that doesn't need changing to begin with. Which means they are not going to be changing the actual things they should've changed a decade ago.

What truly sucks is that they implement the same crap game design to their other Musous too rather than using them as a base to generate fresh ideas. Berserk Musou is god damn shit son though at least it's not as bad as the Berserk 2016/2017 anime.


In the end these games are comfort food for the average Japanese pleb who can't be bothered to learn mechanics in an action game. Mash []/Triangle, press Circle for cool shit while killing a million dumb fodder enemies.
Regardless of how bad or good the final battle system may be, this time they've literally built it from scratch. At least they are trying, man. I mean, you could at least wait for single trailer before completely writing their efforts off. Come on, cut them some slack. Even if the combat sucks they are still moving the series forward in shit ton of ways.

  • Player can capture castles in various ways other than the orthodox-from-castle-gate method. For example they can raid the castle from a higher elevation (eg. mountains), or do a stealth infiltration to hit the main target without getting noticed by other enemies. *NEW*
  • There are also subquests such as hunting wild animals with archery and battling against foreign tribes (eg. Shanyue) that have unique visuals. *NEW*
  • State Combo is the new moveset system that will change moves depending on the surrounding enemy situations. *NEW*
  • State Combo is comprised of the following 3 attacks: *NEW*
    -Trigger attack: Begins the combo
    -Flow attack: Combo that changes based on enemy situations
    -Finish attack: Powerful attack that ends the combo
  • An example of how State Combo works is that when enemies are mid-air then the player character will jump towards them. *NEW*
  • Actions will change depending on the surrounding terrains and objects. *NEW*
  • For example, player will be able to use field objects to attack, such as catapults. *NEW*
  • Player can also use a grapple hook to climb castle walls and high mountains. *NEW*
  • Player can utilize oil cans in field to cause fires. *NEW*
  • There will be over 10 major unique cities along with more generic towns & villages in the world map. *NEW*
  • The major unique cities such as Luoyang won't be as big as they were actually, but each area will be about 1 kilometer(square?) big so they should still feel large. *NEW*
  • Player can move into cities in the middle of battles.
  • Time & Weather will be changing in real time. In nighttime and/or rain it will be harder for enemies to notice the player. *NEW*
img1-10.jpg

img1-11.jpg

img1-12.jpg

img1-13.jpg
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1371810
 

Dahbomb

Member
So they are adding contact sensitive attacks? Ok I guess....

At least the game looks passable for a PS4 title now.


I read the article, combat isn't being built from scratch but the character models are. The combat additions they are making are fluff, most of the attention is going to the visuals and open world stuff.

There's no real mention of good traversal either, some of those cities are 1KM square area yet they expect us to use those clunky ass horses as transport? Yeah I don't know about that.

Seems like something that would be amuse people who still DW games.
 
We can't know for sure how the combat has changed until we see it for ourselves. But the fact that they are trying new stuff and changing the fundamentals of their systems, means that they are aware of the problems in the game and are trying to fix them/make them better. At the very least that should count for something.

But yeah, at the end of the day, the game is being made for people who are into Musou to begin with. So I don't expect them to come up with systems that can rival DMC/Bayo, all of a sudden.
 
We can't know for sure how the combat has changed until we see it for ourselves. But the fact that they are trying new stuff and changing the fundamentals of their systems, means that they are aware of the problems in the game and are trying to fix them/make them better. At the very least that should count for something.

Hopefully this'll be the case with DMC5. DMC4's obviously got problems with the campaign that are fairly specific to that game, but the overall formula definitely needs a tune-up while refocusing on its greatest strengths.

DMC3:SE level quality with modern graphics would be great in the sense of being a real return to form, but it'd also do less to make me confident in the future of the series.

Boss Rush should be included. No excuses this time around.

I feel like it's reasonably certain that there'll be some form of boss rush in the campaign. It's basically Capcom tradition.

Hopefully when it happens it'll be closer to the way DMC3 handled it (probably my favorite approach to the boss rush concept ever) than the way DMC4 handled it.
 

Mizerman

Member
At best it would have some influence on DLC. At any rate, us having any influence whatsoever on the game or future games makes it worth it IMO. Sometimes it doesn't take much to influence a developer. They're as human as everyone. They're not all-knowing and don't have precog, and are as prone to biases and myopia as anyone. It's possible for them to read, hear or see something and be inspired to add, remove or change something in the game.

Maybe we should add a "at least for the love of Sparda add a boss rush mode". :p

Anyway, 30 more days until Microsoft's E3 press conference. 31 until Sony's.

Boss Rush should be included. No excuses this time around.
 
Hopefully this'll be the case with DMC5. DMC4's obviously got problems with the campaign that are fairly specific to that game, but the overall formula definitely needs a tune-up while refocusing on its greatest strengths.

DMC3:SE level quality with modern graphics would be great in the sense of being a real return to form, but it'd also do less to make me confident in the future of the series.
That's pretty much how I feel. To put it into Persona terms, I want DMC5 to be a Persona 3 rather than being a Persona 5. And if anyone can make this happen is the guy who came up with the brilliant DMC3. So, I'm hopeful.
 

Golnei

Member
It's not actively regarded as 'bad' so much as almost completely forgotten. Personally, the P2 duology is the only one of the subseries I've gotten into, but that's mostly because I prefer the Devil Summoner-esque 90s kitsch to the tone of later games, which just aren't really for me.

I can understand why Persona 3 and beyond were necessary, though - that was the moment the series defined itself on its own merits and not as another SMT spinoff. And that's also why I highly doubt the Persona series will go through as drastic a shift again - it has a style that works now, and they're seemingly reluctant to move too far beyond it.
 

Dahbomb

Member
It's not actively regarded as 'bad' so much as almost completely forgotten. Personally, the P2 duology is the only one of the subseries I've gotten into, but that's mostly because I prefer the Devil Summoner-esque 90s kitsch to the tone of later games, which just aren't really for me.

I can understand why Persona 3 and beyond were necessary, though - that was the moment the series defined itself on its own merits and not as another SMT spinoff. And that's also why I highly doubt the Persona series will go through as drastic a shift again - it has a style that works now, and they're seemingly reluctant to move too far beyond it.
That's how I perceived it to be from an outsider's point of view and based on what my friend have been saying about Persona (as they are big Persona fans).
 
Isn't Persona 2 a bad game?

That would be like going from DMC2 to DMC3.
I was referring to the huge leap between Persona 2 and Persona 3. I wanna see something similar with DMC5. Maybe not on that exact scale, but something that feels like a new thing but also manages to maintain what give the series its identity. In that regard Persona 3 might've not been the best example.

I want DMC5 to try and do the same thing that DMC3 did for the series, instead of being a better/improved version of it. Just like how I wanted Persona 5 to try and be the new Persona 3 of that series, instead of being a better version of it.
 

stn

Member
So I'm on the way to beating DMC 3: SE for the first time. Fun combat and all but I hate the forced camera angles in some areas. Its so hard to properly defend yourself when you're either looking at an angle OR you're walking down and can't even see an enemy right in front of you. The game has tons of style and is fun, but I prefer the combat of the DMC reboot by a large margin.

Once I beat DMC 3, I'll be re-playing DMC 4: SE. I beat vanilla DMC 4 way back and then sold it. I have a feeling it'll hold up.
 
You are never going to have a scale of jump like you did with DMC3.
I disagree.

Think a little outside of the mechanics and weapons that you have with your character. Other than those stuff, how much have action games (especially DMC) really used the other parts of their games to serve their gameplay/action?

When you start a game almost always the first thing that you notice is the environment that you are in, yet barley any action game really uses and treats that aspect of their game as a part of their action. DmC did tried to add some stuff like trains and damaging enemies with acid, but I think you can still do much more than that. They can make the environments and your placement in each of them, part of their gameplay/combat system. I'm not talking about environmental finishers and stuff like that, but actual moves and abilities that you can use based on whether you and enemy are close to a wall or near a pillar, etc. Or having environmental effects, like you are fighting in a wet environment then if you use a weapon that generates electricity then you can see different reaction/affects on enemies and set them up for combos/attacks in a unique way that you couldn't necessarily do in a dry environment.

The same goes for other things like AI, or enemy physics.

There are lots of things about games that we've just come to agree on how they should work, because we've barley seen any developer do anything new with them or approach them from a different perspective. An example of this would be how you approach enemies in RPGs. Before Dragon's Dogma, I had never even thought about climbing on enemies and then having them fly away while you are still on them and mercilessly stabbing their wings in hope of having them fall down. That thought had not occurred to me before, cause I had grown accustomed to the traditional way of approaching enemies in that genre. So that's why when it first happened in DD I was like "Oh, SHIT! Is this really happening!?"

And I think the same kind of things can happen in action games where devs could use parts of the game like environments, like general physics of enemies etc, to make you approach the action in a way that you haven't thought about before. I know doing these stuff and coming up with genre defining ideas is not even remotely easy and good ideas on paper might cost a ton of time and resources and even then lead to very very annoying and poor mechanics in the actual game. So I know it's very tough, but I still think believe that achieving these things are possible.

Now to be clear, I wouldn't be mad about DMC5 if it didn't have these genre defining things. You are not gonna find me say "Oh, DMC5 sucks cause it doesn't use its environments as parts of its battle system." But I know that someday, some developer will be able to do this and I'll be really excited about it.

That being said, I would be disappointed in DMC5 if it didn't make me go "Hah, that's cool. That's new. I haven't seen this mechanic before /or thought about using it in this way in other action games".
 

Dahbomb

Member
I was referring to the jump from DMC2 to DMC3.

The jump from DMC4 to DMC5 is not going to be as drastic.

DMC3 improved upon DMC2 in every way imaginable. I think if DMC5 did that then I will light up all non DMC5 action games in my collection and create an altar to DMC5 because it would've been touched by the hand of god.
 
Ah, I see.

Yeah, we are not gonna get another DMC2 -> DMC3 jump because DMC4 is a very good game. But when I brought up DMC3 I was talking about how it changed the entire series from that point on and I would love for DMC5 to change the series in the same fashion.
 

MBS

Banned
Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen is getting a PS4/X1 re-release this fall. This will be the first major DD series release in 4 years, and by this development we can safely exclude any other DD related announcement in E3. Remember that this series is Itsuno's child too, and the only legitimate "threat" to DMC5 since the tweet for the upcoming unannounced game.

With Dragon's Dogma officially out of the way, DMC is now Itsuno's only remaining project left to be announced.

It's happening guys!
 
Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen is getting a PS4/X1 re-release this fall. This will be the first major DD series release in 4 years, and by this development we can safely exclude any other DD related announcement in E3. Remember that this series is Itsuno's child too, and the only legitimate "threat" to DMC5 since the tweet for the upcoming unannounced game.

With Dragon's Dogma officially out of the way, DMC is now Itsuno's only remaining project left to be announced.

It's happening guys!
I don't know how we could exclude a DD announcement of say a new game. A rerelease points to keeping the IP alive..
 
Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen is getting a PS4/X1 re-release this fall. This will be the first major DD series release in 4 years, and by this development we can safely exclude any other DD related announcement in E3. Remember that this series is Itsuno's child too, and the only legitimate "threat" to DMC5 since the tweet for the upcoming unannounced game.

With Dragon's Dogma officially out of the way, DMC is now Itsuno's only remaining project left to be announced.

It's happening guys!
I drew the opposite conclusion. If DMC4SE means DMC still lives, a DD rerelease means DD is still alive too.
 

MBS

Banned
I drew the opposite conclusion. If DMC4SE means DMC still lives, a DD rerelease means DD is still alive too.

DMC4SE released two years ago, and according to their new strategy they're reviving old franchises at a 2-2.5 year rate between each release. So it makes sense that their next game is DMC5 given all the circumstances. Releasing two DD games between a 6 month-year span does not make any sense at all.
 
Yeah, I don't see how releasing DD's remaster on PS4/X1, would mean that the series is not coming back/out of the way.

If anything, it means that there is hope for a sequel in the future. And man, after DMC5 I'll be all over a DD2.
 

Golnei

Member
I feel like a future Dragon's Dogma would benefit from Nier Automata's approach in reverse - getting a competent writer/creative director to take over while they continue in the first game's direction gameplay-wise.

It's a shame Matsuno would never work on a project of that scale again, because he'd do extremely well with that sort of classic D&D inspired setting, looking not only at his more prominent work but also at how Crimson Shroud was a love letter to tabletop RPGs.
 
I think with DD2, in addition to storytelling, they have to improve on quite a few things. The world in the first game was fun to explore due to all combat scenarios and enemies, but I don't think the majority of environments themselves were anything special. They have to change that.

Also, the game had some feature's that weren't really all that clear. I'm sure we've all seen this little gem.

P.S: Let me play the devil's advocate. Capcom stayed absolutely silent about DMC's 15th anniversary, yet they are celebrating DD's 5th one...
 
Let me play the devil's advocate. Capcom stayed absolutely silent about DMC's 15th anniversary, yet they are celebrating DD's 5th one...

I think they would have announced DMC related stuff last year...but something got delayed obviously...
It is indeed odd of Capcom to not give a single fuck about DMC 15th anniversary.
 
I think they would have announced DMC related stuff last year...but something got delayed obviously...
It is indeed odd of Capcom to not give a single fuck about DMC 15th anniversary.
Yeah, that's certainly possible. But they still could've sent a tweet, or announce that they'll celebrate DMC's 15th anniversary from October 2016 through October 2017, like they did with RE.

At any rate, I really hope if they announce something this year, they don't include a "15th anniversary" logo or message or anything like that in it. They completely ignored us when the time was right, so now they should just shut up about it. I'll be so irrationally mad, if the trailer had something like that.
 
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