The argument reads exactly the same to me. It was always whether the combat was good enough to overlook everything else.
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Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition |OT| Two girls, one motivated Vergil
- Thread starter Sigmaah
- Start date
The argument reads exactly the same to me. It was always whether the combat was good enough to overlook everything else.
I don't know, we've already had several people who said their overall opinion changed since vanilla just after our posts, so I'm inclined to continue to disagree about this. We'll just have to agree to disagree, doesn't matter much in the end.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Dahbomb's right. DMC4s combat has improved with age. Its becoming more and more appreciated to see its focus on skill and execution in the midsts of games today with push button to win and see cool shit cus you succeeded in the QTE prompt.
Seven Force
Banned
lmaooooo
People knew that the combat of DMC4 was "good" when the game released but they didn't know how good it was. Like Dante's combat sounded good on paper but people didn't know the extent of his skill cap.
It was impossible to figure out the skill cap of the game when it first released. When the game came out most people didn't even know about instant reving with Nero or DT canceling or even Full Steam with Dante.
This also reminded me how stupid it was that gun shots actually RAISED enemies even higher... even if you were shooting STRAIGHT at them!
It was impossible to figure out the skill cap of the game when it first released. When the game came out most people didn't even know about instant reving with Nero or DT canceling or even Full Steam with Dante.
I like how 60% of this combo video is showcasing Trish combo videos which is the closest thing to DMC's combat in DMC2....
This also reminded me how stupid it was that gun shots actually RAISED enemies even higher... even if you were shooting STRAIGHT at them!
Mr. Smiley
Member
this music is killing me hahaha
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I've actually just spent 90% of the DMC4SE time in BP cuz the campaign is just trash in the year of our lord 2015. Like I just can't anymore with its fuckin' red orb hunting rankings and its spinning gyro hallways and awful sound mix in the cutscenes and pison gas and dice games and attempts at platforming with that stiff as vertical leap and the Savior boss fight and just no. No more.
I'm fine with it just being a combat simulator in a floating ring in the sky, but they gotta figure out something for DMC5, man. SOMETHING. Aint gon be millions of people lining up to play Bloody Palace ya feel me. Most people aint got time to learn what the hell an Instant Rev or even attempt to get good with DMC4 Dante's million and one options.
I'm fine with it just being a combat simulator in a floating ring in the sky, but they gotta figure out something for DMC5, man. SOMETHING. Aint gon be millions of people lining up to play Bloody Palace ya feel me. Most people aint got time to learn what the hell an Instant Rev or even attempt to get good with DMC4 Dante's million and one options.
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
direct_quote
Member
If people think the bar is set low for review scores now, I recall EGM gave DMC2 like a 7 or something....
I admit, I was kind of tempted to spend the $1.50 micro to unlock all the modes just so I wouldn't have to bother with playing the campaign so much. Didn't do it, though, figured I'd just suffer through it until DMD, because after that it's smooth sailing.
Seven Force
Banned
Holy shit, this music
PensivePen
Member
You didn't enjoy Lucia's cruel sonnet of self realization wrapped in a story steeped in religious overtones?
A lot of sites gave it a 7 back then. And back then reviews were even more letter grade based (so a 7 is basically a C-).
Thing is that people didn't know back then just how bad DMC2 actually was. When I first beat the game I just thought "definitely way worse than DMC1 but probably a decent action game overall".
I played it a few years back and I was baffled at how bad it was. Like I actually think if a game of this quality gets released in this day and age for a well established franchise that there would be some law suits over it.
I actually don't think I have played a worse sequel than DMC2 in my gaming life. I am not even being biased because I am a DMC fan, I am saying it as objectively as possible.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Yaiba tried b
incredible how that series gets like exponentially worse as it goes along.
NGB - 9/10
NG2 - 6/10
NG3 - 3/10
NGY - 1/10?
At this rate, NG4 got just kill a nigga as soon as he boots that bitch up
skLaFarebear
Member
I beat one of the bosses of DMC2 with one hand while recording myself beating the boss with my other hand with my phone.
Man fuck DMC2.
Man fuck DMC2.
Depending on the changes made to DMC5 from DMC4, I am going to go out on a limb and say that DmC will be more impactful to the series than DMC2 was. Especially if DMC4SE Vergil was any indication.
Also NG2 being a 6/10 is a far cry, come on now son.
I would say NGY is definitely DMC2 tier of bad but it was never targetted as a true sequel to the mainline NGseries so it's not really included IMO. DMC2 is definitely worse than NG3 by a fair margin.
Also NG2 being a 6/10 is a far cry, come on now son.
This sentence...doesn't seem quite right.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
skLaFarebear
Member
DMC2 was...something alright.
That's the nicest thing I can say about it. Oh, and Dante's design.
That's pretty much it for me.
Lewd.
That's the nicest thing I can say about it. Oh, and Dante's design.
That's pretty much it for me.
Lewd.
Now that's a combo video.
Saved for future use.
skLaFarebear
Member
I know. Just busting your chops. ^_^
Mr. Smiley
Member
Haven't even touched DMC2 on the HD collection. Legit afraid to relive that.
BKatastrophe
Member
So Trish's big focus is just crowd control? Disappointing, but I expect hidden tech to be found soon
I've thought that since day one.
I've thought that since day one.
ArclightBorealis
Member
Man, NG3 was so much more damaging to that franchise than I feel even DmC was to its own. It wasn't even a reboot, and the update rerelease it got was still total garbage. DmC DE at least turned it into a somewhat more respectable game.
That's not entirely true. Features like Mission Select, Bloody Palace, and the expanded upgrade system all came from DMC2. Going by the standards we have now for character action games, DMC2 has definitely made an impact, despite the quality of the rest of the game.
I'll even go as far as saying that DMC2 is FAR more playable and easy to get into than the original DMC game. With our present standards, DMC1 is horribly outdated, obtuse, and less playable than most other action games. Honestly, DMC2 did a lot of good, and the series, and arguably the genre, is now better off thanks to it.
Edit: Also weapon switching! That was a game changer for action games, and that came from DMC2
This is not necessarily a good thing at all. Just because something is easy doesn't make it somehow better or more modern. You could get past encounters in DMC2 by holding down Square. That doesn't make it any better by our standards today.
But you're right about Bloody Palace and Mission Select. Bloody Palace specifically.
GalacticAE
Member
there's some interesting kinetic stuff going on in dmc4. i wonder how much of it was pre concieved by the development team and itsuno
ViewtifulJC
Banned
That's the worst part, cuz at Team Ninja...Itagaki aint walking through that door. Itsuno aint walking through that door. Kamiya aint walking through that door. They stuck with Hayashi ol trash ass. He probably working on a way to make NG4 even more ass than NG3 somehow.
"the world's first underwater stealth turret section QTE....genius Yosuke genius"
ArclightBorealis
Member
You mean Inertia? I have to imagine that just came naturally out of the physics system they made for the game. Other quirks like Reverse Inputs I assume came about in a similar fashion as well.
PensivePen
Member
I don't agree at all, the enemy/boss patterns, level design and feel of your attacks all hold up incredibly well. I'm also someone who has no problem with fixed camera angles at all, though I recognize most people don't like them.
Of course. A training mode was one of the most requested additions for DMC4SE and it's a shame it wasn't included. DMC5 needs to have one.
I'm not saying it's a better game, but it does have better design choices and innovations. DMC1 just doesn't work for pick up and play. Much like its roots in early RE titles, it's a straight shot through with no control over the missions or which areas.
Basically, the core structure of DMC1 is not good for character action games. Going by our modern standards, of course. It's still a fine game, but still horribly outdated.
I disagree as someone who has played DMC2 far more than I'd like to admit. The camera, the controls, the design, the perspective, the set distance, the encounter design. It's all absolutely horrible and not an improvement over DMC to make it more modern. Have you played DMC2 recently? If not, go ahead and watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5FrWcrc-XU
It's just as awkward for modern gamers as DMC1, but without the actual benefit of good game design. The limited additions that we have mentioned on the past two pages notwithstanding, the game is an archaic mess.
DmC gave Dante the Devil Bringer mechanic which is certainly going to make it's way into DMC5. That has to count for something.
#dead
#dead
PensivePen
Member
DMC1 is also not really a game about styling on enemies like in 3 and 4 (despite coining the whole 'stylish action' thing). While combat is generally supposed to look cool it's much more about traversing and finishing levels in efficient ways, it's closer to something like MGR in that respect.
Oh yeah, I've played DMC2. I rented it from Blockbuster when it came out, and I finished it over the weekend. I had fun with it, but I was super disappointed. I tried playing it again back when DMC HD came out, but I never finished it. It's a subpar game, definitely. But even poor games can make smart and innovative choices.
I'm not saying DMC1 is worse than DMC2, because it's not. It's clearly the better game with better design, combat, difficulty, art, and story -- HOWEVER, DMC2 is better in regards to recognizing the need for choice and focusing on playability. Hence, the mission select and extra modes outside of the campaign.
All I'm saying is that DMC2 has had an impact on the series and genre. It's not forgotten, and it made very important design choices that the best action games of today of have (DMC3/4, MGR, Bayonetta 1/2, etc).
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Stuff that DmC has introduced that might get introduced into DMC5 which would make it a better game:
*Better Style gauge ranking system. DMC4's style ranking system is dated as fuck. DmC original Style ranking system was ass but the one in DE is super legit, easily the best one in the series. Itsuno would be wise to cop that shit and make some tweaks accordingly (it still rewards high damage on crowds too much but so does DMC4 to be honest).
*Being able to do Secret missions from the main menu. A god send. No longer do you have to go through an entire level and search for a secret mission to attempt it again.
*A training mode. It's bare bones as fuck but it's infinitely better than not having one at all.
*Lock on toggle option. Should be a mandatory feature going forward.
*A Devil Bringer that you can manually command whether you want it to pull enemies or make you traverse towards enemies. It's not nearly as fluid as Nero's Devil Bringer but I like the versatility of it in DmC.
*Being able to try out moves in the shop before purchasing. Also no escalation of prices on moves and every move costs the same to buy.
*Toggleable modifiers are available in the Mission select screen and not tucked away in the Options/systems menu.
*No Automatic mode. I have no idea why this mode is allowed to exist in a DMC game. It should never be in a DMC game again. Just make the easiest mode in the game something that everyone can beat rather easily.
*Some combat mechanics like Vergil's teleport cancels and Perfect slice mechanics.
*The Doppelganger system in DmC. DmC Vergil is something that is similar to DMC4 Dante tier in terms of ridiculously high cap potentially and that's due to the Doppelganger system. Unfortunately, DmC as a game is not going to survive for nearly a decade in terms of high level play and thus a brilliant system like this is going to be lost to the action game world (or the full potential of it). My hope is that Itsuno puts it into DMC5 in some form so that the hardcore DMC players can push it to its limit.
*Super detailed stats tracking. There's actually a very in depth stat tracking system in DmC if anyone actually bothered to look. It records even very minute stuff like how many times you have landed attacks with certain weapons, your variance on mixing up moves, how many times you used enemy step, your kills against certain types of enemies (your deaths as well) etc. This is cool and I would like to see it return for DMC5.
*Removed puzzle solving and backtracking almost completely. Say whatever you want about the story, the characters, even the platforming... but as an action game DmC keeps the pace up because it doesn't bog down the campaign with shitty puzzles or unnecessary backtracking.
*Pause combos transfer in between weapons. Not a brand new mechanic for action games (Darksiders 2 did it first) but it would be new for the series and thus a welcome feature for DMC5.
This list is already way longer than all the "good" stuff that DMC2 brought in.
*Better Style gauge ranking system. DMC4's style ranking system is dated as fuck. DmC original Style ranking system was ass but the one in DE is super legit, easily the best one in the series. Itsuno would be wise to cop that shit and make some tweaks accordingly (it still rewards high damage on crowds too much but so does DMC4 to be honest).
*Being able to do Secret missions from the main menu. A god send. No longer do you have to go through an entire level and search for a secret mission to attempt it again.
*A training mode. It's bare bones as fuck but it's infinitely better than not having one at all.
*Lock on toggle option. Should be a mandatory feature going forward.
*A Devil Bringer that you can manually command whether you want it to pull enemies or make you traverse towards enemies. It's not nearly as fluid as Nero's Devil Bringer but I like the versatility of it in DmC.
*Being able to try out moves in the shop before purchasing. Also no escalation of prices on moves and every move costs the same to buy.
*Toggleable modifiers are available in the Mission select screen and not tucked away in the Options/systems menu.
*No Automatic mode. I have no idea why this mode is allowed to exist in a DMC game. It should never be in a DMC game again. Just make the easiest mode in the game something that everyone can beat rather easily.
*Some combat mechanics like Vergil's teleport cancels and Perfect slice mechanics.
*The Doppelganger system in DmC. DmC Vergil is something that is similar to DMC4 Dante tier in terms of ridiculously high cap potentially and that's due to the Doppelganger system. Unfortunately, DmC as a game is not going to survive for nearly a decade in terms of high level play and thus a brilliant system like this is going to be lost to the action game world (or the full potential of it). My hope is that Itsuno puts it into DMC5 in some form so that the hardcore DMC players can push it to its limit.
*Super detailed stats tracking. There's actually a very in depth stat tracking system in DmC if anyone actually bothered to look. It records even very minute stuff like how many times you have landed attacks with certain weapons, your variance on mixing up moves, how many times you used enemy step, your kills against certain types of enemies (your deaths as well) etc. This is cool and I would like to see it return for DMC5.
*Removed puzzle solving and backtracking almost completely. Say whatever you want about the story, the characters, even the platforming... but as an action game DmC keeps the pace up because it doesn't bog down the campaign with shitty puzzles or unnecessary backtracking.
*Pause combos transfer in between weapons. Not a brand new mechanic for action games (Darksiders 2 did it first) but it would be new for the series and thus a welcome feature for DMC5.
This list is already way longer than all the "good" stuff that DMC2 brought in.
Or they just continue with multiple playable characters in 5, including Nero, and leaving that devil bringer mechanic exclusive for him.