4's appreciation is very much derived from the combat and the characters, and not even strictly the high level stuff. The impact, kinetic feel, the flow of moves/cancels... these are tangible things you can feel during battle. It's a core strength that DMC has always had, and often one that is under appreciated because people find it difficult to describe exactly why the game feels good in their hands.
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Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition |OT| Two girls, one motivated Vergil
- Thread starter Sigmaah
- Start date
4's appreciation is very much derived from the combat and the characters, and not even strictly the high level stuff. The impact, kinetic feel, the flow of moves/cancels... these are tangible things you can feel during battle. It's a core strength that DMC has always had, and often one that is under appreciated because people find it difficult to describe exactly why the game feels good in their hands.
Exactly, even more so now with 3 additional characters.
It depends on what kind of player you are and what you favor more. I personally don't let campaign or whatever blunders get in my way of enjoying a game if the gameplay is good (which is why I love games like DMC4, RE6 etc.).
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
I have no idea what about DMC4 is supposed to feel older than DMC3. 3 certainly does feel better than 4 in several ways (although I'd say 4 is ultimately the stronger game - despite its flaws, it's more consistently fun than 3) but that has nothing to do with either game having aged or whatever.
The only things that are held in high regard for DMC4 is the game play, visuals and combat. Even among DMC fans DMC4 is considered the weakest of the DMC games (minus DMC2 of course, that's not even a real game).
DMC4 is kinda saved by its Bloody Palace, godlike combat and solid art direction/visuals because its campaign is really mediocre. Some good boss fights, some good enemies but just lousy early PS2 era level and puzzle design. The story and characters are also among the weakest of the series.
People found renewed love in DMC4 post DmC (because they would rather have Uncle Dante than DmC Dante) but when DMC4 came out it was considered a disappointment by many. Not nearly at the level of DMC2 but coming off of DMC3 it was a step down in many ways.
direct_quote
Member
Gotta think with Dragon's Dogma that Itsuno got some more ideas about how to construct levels for DMC... I hope so at least.. Honestly I kind of blame Kamiya for starting the trend of "mixing it up" in an action game and giving us jumping puzzles and such. There were jumping puzzles in DMC1 and those stupid underwater portions...
I 100% agree.
I am super anxious about DMC5. I really hope Capcom doesn't just give us DMC4.5 for DMC5 because they think "man DMC4 and DMC4SE did so well! Let's make a game like that again!" I think Capcom might make a worse game by not taking too many risks with DMC5.
Crossposting since this is the last call for entries in our DMC4SE giveaway. 16 copies available:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1070528
Also, we're going to tabulate GAF's favorite DMC weapon for funsies.
I think Itsuno will bring his A game. There was only so much that could be "fixed" in DMC4SE, and DMC4 was also a title with a direction driven by Kobayashi. With all of the recent publicity for Itsuno as an acclaimed director, I'm hoping he gets more freedom.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1070528
Also, we're going to tabulate GAF's favorite DMC weapon for funsies.
I think Itsuno will bring his A game. There was only so much that could be "fixed" in DMC4SE, and DMC4 was also a title with a direction driven by Kobayashi. With all of the recent publicity for Itsuno as an acclaimed director, I'm hoping he gets more freedom.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
It should also be stated that DMC4 came out in 2008 running at 60FPS with those visuals and art direction. It was a great looking game back then and it has aged surprisingly well. So it was also give a pass for how good it looked especially the PC version which was a technical marvel.
dmc5 could literally just be pretty hallways into cutscene room into boss rooms featuring a fuckton of dante clowning around cutscenes and it'd be better than dmc4 or DmC campaign-wise
to be frank that's kinda what i feel bayonetta 1 is and i don't think it really suffers for that at all
to be frank that's kinda what i feel bayonetta 1 is and i don't think it really suffers for that at all
I may be misremembering, but I feel like people were pretty down on DMC4 when it was first released, for a lot of the reasons stated, as well as not being the successor to DMC3 that many people wanted. The sales were strong, but I recall the reviews and consensus where very mixed. It seems like it's only recently that 4 has had a sort of resurgence of sorts where people have come to appreciate it's fine combat over it's other many flaws. I think it's part just people getting over that it wasn't a "worthy" successor of DMC3, and the reboot, which, as this thread shows, left a lot of people sour and driven back to the last "real" DMC.
You are right. People were definitely down on DMC4 and it wasn't even just for the campaign.
It wasn't until years after that people realized that combat in DMC4 is just absolutely ridiculous. These sort of things aren't obvious when you play and finish the game for the first time around. But again this was things that hardcores discovered, the casual fans still see DMC4 as "that game where you backtrack for half of the game, play against the bosses 3 times and go through a shitty dice puzzle game".
I do honestly believe that DmC shifted people's perception of DMC4.
Like DMC4 has actually become more polarizing than it was at the start. That's because there are two very distinct features of DMC4:
1) The combat is godlike and has aged BETTER as time has gone on.
2) The campaign is bad and has aged WORSE as time has gone on.
So depending on what you cared about in these category your feelings for the game have probably changed some what.
DXLelouch153
Banned
i cant go back to DMC3s Vergil after playing DMC4SE
Vergil is so much better and faster
Vergil is so much better and faster
The Silver
Member
Rachel strikes again
I dunno. I don't like how they changed Trick Up/Down.
I was down on the game when it first came out. The campaign was an enormous letdown from DMC3, and a lot of the more interesting mechanics of Nero that made him deep weren't obvious at first. Over time, the combat only evolved further, and people began to see the glint of something special beneath the coarse exterior.
PensivePen
Member
Pretty much, my feelings about the game are largely the same as when it released. I hated the backtracking and terrible story, but recognized that the gameplay was still very good and that Dante being able to switch styles was a huge leap in options. Though I still dislike how many of his abilities have been nerfed or removed. They should have migrated some of Vergil's changes over to Dante's skillset. I enjoy playing Nero now more than I did back then but I still think he would have benefited extremely from just one additional Devil Arm, and it would have worked perfectly since he has an unused button on the controller.
direct_quote
Member
He still doesn't have enough weapons...
Totally agree.
If we can get a game with DMC4 level gameplay with a DMC3 level story and world design, we'll have a GOAT on our hands.
I'll admit that when it first came out, DMC4 was not my cup of tea. Overtime, I started to appreciated the gameplay and I thought Nero wasn't that bad after all (though I still prefer Dante and Vergil). The entire package was flawed, but I still enjoy it.
DmC only reinforced those feelings.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Hoping that is remedied in DMC5!
ArclightBorealis
Member
Just one extra weapon would be enough personally, especially if Itsuno wants all of his tools to be accessible at all times and not switch in between missions.
A lance that could be revved would be the easiest solution. Considering the Alto Angelos use rev swords and Bianco's use lances, it makes sense.
He doesn't really need them. His goal was to be beginner friendly, and I feel he nails that concept with Max-Exceed being a stepping stone to more advanced combat.
Eh, DmC made me appreciate DMC4s campaign a little more if anything. The backtracking is definitely bad, but at least the environments are nice to look at and the level designs themselves are (at worst) on par with DmC.
Story wise DMC4 is half-assed and stupid but at least it's not insultingly bad as what DmC had and DMC4 is at least a little self aware about how dumb it is whereas DmC takes itself too seriously. Plus DMC4 has Uncle Dante (Best Dante). His fucking God tier swag helps alleviate some of the pain of the 2nd half of the game. Meanwhile all of the DmC characters are such bore.
Overall I think DMC4 has aged surprisingly well. The gameplay still feels god tier, the engine has held up nicely, visually I still think it looks pretty good for what was a 7 year old early generation title. DmC basically made me appreciate what we had beforehand a lot more.
Mr. Smiley
Member
I appreciate Nero. They could have dumb-down Dante or the mechanics of the game when they wanted to appeal to a new generation. Instead, we got a new easier character with different story goals for the new audience to jump in while getting a more capable Dante. Best outcome really. They just really screwed the pooch on the story on the campaign, I would have liked to have started with Dante tbh.
Also, haha what? I finally play as Trish in the credits, get about 25 kills and I unlock Dante's EX costume? What even.
EDIT: Wait, I guess I unlocked Trish's somehow even though the Player Change menu told me earlier that I didn't. Hum.
Also, haha what? I finally play as Trish in the credits, get about 25 kills and I unlock Dante's EX costume? What even.
EDIT: Wait, I guess I unlocked Trish's somehow even though the Player Change menu told me earlier that I didn't. Hum.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
I've always like Nero, but I've got a feeling a lot of people might have changed their minds about him after they saw Donte. And looking at the other thread, I can see at least people agreed his sword is cool.
Remember Nero was never designed to replace Dante. EDIT: Forgot to mention, I also like that he carries the tradition of DMC protagonists being voiced by Power Rangers.
A Rocket Lance, and I think he needs a guitar like weapon.... The man can air guitar as it is. Plus Red Queen, three weapons perfect.
I think all of them should be mechanical and not Devil Arms though.
Remember Nero was never designed to replace Dante. EDIT: Forgot to mention, I also like that he carries the tradition of DMC protagonists being voiced by Power Rangers.
A Rocket Lance, and I think he needs a guitar like weapon.... The man can air guitar as it is. Plus Red Queen, three weapons perfect.
I think all of them should be mechanical and not Devil Arms though.
The backtracking in DMC4 is the least of the problems with the campaign. The platforming, the dice puzzle, the laser traps in the castle, the terrible bosses like Agnus, Savior and Sanctus. It's not that any of that stuff is difficult but it just makes you think, "Why?"
Lord Dante
Neo Member
I loved it back then and to this day I continue to love DMC4. Dat combat and uncle Dante.
DmC made me appreciate DMC2, actually.
DmC made me appreciate DMC2, actually.
Not so sure about that.
Nero, possibly due to Kobayashi's prodding, was created to appeal to a younger demographic, and a female demographic. There are a lot of hints that the reigns were supposed to be passed to Nero from Dante, such as the handing down of Yamato, the "will we meet again?", and the title of Mission 19 (The Successor).
But, as usual, the publisher underestimated how valuable their marquee characters were.
90% sure that Kobayashi was talking about Nero as someone who Dante eventually passed the torch to or something like that in some interview.
Someone can probably google search that to confirm.
Damn sometimes I amaze myself at pulling random DMC factoids and info out of my the ether like that.
Someone can probably google search that to confirm.
Damn sometimes I amaze myself at pulling random DMC factoids and info out of my the ether like that.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
Dante and Nero compliment each other nicely, but this iteration made me realize they can do a bunch of different characters with different skill sets and it's all really fun. I like it way better than the Ninja Gaiden alt characters, where you're just kinda wishing you could go back to playing Ryu's missions.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Spiral swords, or. blitz swords.
All the enemies have some tactic to them
This isn't directed to you, more as a general statement:
Its a shame some people just want to mash the melee button on any and everything, and then get annoyed when they don't win.
Its probably why ninja theory dumbed down all the enemies and bosses to herp a derp levels.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
Can't agree there, I think opinions have changed on it greatly since the vanilla release.
Tyrant Rave
Banned
There's nothing to appreciate in DMC2
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
yeah, i don't really think about it as much anymore. I have fun with what enemies they throw at me and just kind of loosely acknowledge dumb stuff in the second half like 3 chapters in a row in the forest, the poison gas, backtracking in general. once i'm done with campaign, it's all bloody palace from there on out anyway.
Yeah, stuff like that just makes me roll my eyes. I understand disliking the reboot, maybe even hating it, but there's a point where you're just being ridiculous about it. The stuff some people spew about DmC around here (not specifically this thread, just in DMC related threads, in general) make me question if a lot of them have even played it, to be honest.
direct_quote
Member
Don't know if this has been posted, but lady and trish combo vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBWhYyvZ5X4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBWhYyvZ5X4
Chaos2Frozen
Member
I heard people liked Dante's design.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Some people have such a hard-on for the fictional character of Dante they'll say straight up stupid shit like "it made DMC2 look good"
That's a rendering bug due to missing shaders. The same thing happens a few places in Revelations 1 and REmaster too. It happens so often when playing as Gloria that I'm really surprised Capcom didn't fix it before release.
DMC2 In a Nutshell
The only good things to come out of DMC2 are the Dante design and the fact that it introduced some elements like wallrunning and twosome time. And it had playable Trish, who was probably the most fun you could extract from the game.
The only good things to come out of DMC2 are the Dante design and the fact that it introduced some elements like wallrunning and twosome time. And it had playable Trish, who was probably the most fun you could extract from the game.
Last time when someone even implied that DMC2 was better than DmC I went Super Saiyan on their ass...
LMAO @ this video. That Infested Tank fight fucking SLAYED me!
LMAO @ this video. That Infested Tank fight fucking SLAYED me!