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[ViewtifulJC]

I forgot how much I miss lock-on toggle until I've gone back to holding a shoulder button down in DMC4 for hours

like how did nobody think of that shit before

or why didn't they just put it SE that couldn't have been that hard

 

[Afrocious]

*Pause combos transfer in between weapons. Not a brand new mechanic for action games (Darksiders 2 did it first) but it would be new for the series and thus a welcome feature for DMC5.

What's this?

 

[GuardianE]

Oh yeah, I've played DMC2. I rented it from Blockbuster when it came out, and I finished it over the weekend. I had fun with it, but I was super disappointed. I tried playing it again back when DMC HD came out, but I never finished it. It's a subpar game, definitely. But even poor games can make smart and innovative choices.

I'm not saying DMC1 is worse than DMC2, because it's not. It's clearly the better game with better design, combat, difficulty, art, and story -- HOWEVER, DMC2 is better in regards to recognizing the need for choice and focusing on playability. Hence, the mission select and extra modes outside of the campaign.

All I'm saying is that DMC2 has had an impact on the series and genre. It's not forgotten, and it made very important design choices that the best action games of today of have (DMC3/4, MGR, Bayonetta 1/2, etc).

But your argument for modernization boils down to those two specific inclusions (and the gunswapping) and nothing else. I wouldn't say that those two inclusions somehow make the game far more palatable and modern than DMC1 overall, especially since the actual underlying execution of those two additions were abysmal.

I don't disagree that DMC2 added things that were ultimately improved upon and made quality in DMC3, but I do think that suggesting this somehow makes the title more modern than DMC1 is inaccurate.

What's this?

Pauses in combos are sustained when swapping weapons, so you can switch to a weapon after a pause and get the after-pause followup with the second weapon. Example: You can slash twice with Rebellion, pause and swap, then do the final strike with Arbiter. I personally don't like this from DmC.

 

[ezekial45]

Deep down, you know it's true. Go back and try playing DMC1 from a save file stuck in the middle of the game, and I bet you'll wish you had Mission Select.

 

[PensivePen]

Deep down, you know its true. Go back and try playing DMC1 from a save file stuck in the middle of the game, and I bet you'll wish you had Mission Select.

I mean you're not wrong but I'd still rather play any randomly chosen mission in DMC1 than any mission of my choosing in DMC2.

 

[Dahbomb]

Reposting for new page in case people missed out on the TRUTH!

Stuff that DmC has introduced that might get introduced into DMC5 which would make it a better game:

*Better Style gauge ranking system. DMC4's style ranking system is dated as fuck. DmC original Style ranking system was ass but the one in DE is super legit, easily the best one in the series. Itsuno would be wise to cop that shit and make some tweaks accordingly (it still rewards high damage on crowds too much but so does DMC4 to be honest).

*Being able to do Secret missions from the main menu. A god send. No longer do you have to go through an entire level and search for a secret mission to attempt it again.

*A training mode. It's bare bones as fuck but it's infinitely better than not having one at all.

*Lock on toggle option. Should be a mandatory feature going forward.

*A Devil Bringer that you can manually command whether you want it to pull enemies or make you traverse towards enemies. It's not nearly as fluid as Nero's Devil Bringer but I like the versatility of it in DmC.

*Being able to try out moves in the shop before purchasing. Also no escalation of prices on moves and every move costs the same to buy.

*Toggleable modifiers are available in the Mission select screen and not tucked away in the Options/systems menu.

*No Automatic mode. I have no idea why this mode is allowed to exist in a DMC game. It should never be in a DMC game again. Just make the easiest mode in the game something that everyone can beat rather easily.

*Some combat mechanics like Vergil's teleport cancels and Perfect slice mechanics.

*The Doppelganger system in DmC. DmC Vergil is something that is similar to DMC4 Dante tier in terms of ridiculously high cap potentially and that's due to the Doppelganger system. Unfortunately, DmC as a game is not going to survive for nearly a decade in terms of high level play and thus a brilliant system like this is going to be lost to the action game world (or the full potential of it). My hope is that Itsuno puts it into DMC5 in some form so that the hardcore DMC players can push it to its limit.

*Super detailed stats tracking. There's actually a very in depth stat tracking system in DmC if anyone actually bothered to look. It records even very minute stuff like how many times you have landed attacks with certain weapons, your variance on mixing up moves, how many times you used enemy step, your kills against certain types of enemies (your deaths as well) etc. This is cool and I would like to see it return for DMC5.

*Removed puzzle solving and backtracking almost completely. Say whatever you want about the story, the characters, even the platforming... but as an action game DmC keeps the pace up because it doesn't bog down the campaign with shitty puzzles or unnecessary backtracking.

*Pause combos transfer in between weapons. Not a brand new mechanic for action games (Darksiders 2 did it first) but it would be new for the series and thus a welcome feature for DMC5.



This list is already way longer than all the "good" stuff that DMC2 brought in.

What's this?

Say you have Combo II of Yamato and Combo II of Force Edge with Vergil in DMC4SE. When you do a Force Edge ground combo and then swap to Yamato, you have to start the combo from start with Yamato.

In DmC, when you are doing the starting combo with Yamato, then pause.. instead of going into the Combo II variant you can switch the weapon and when you do it during the pause, the follow up that will combo is the Combo II of Force Edge... you wouldn't have to start from the beginning of the combo to get the Combo II finisher with Force Edge.

This is what allows people to do stuff like Two hits with Rebellion then go immediately into Trinity Smash in DmC.

 

[GuardianE]

Deep down, you know it's true. Go back and try playing DMC1 from a save file stuck in the middle of the game, and I bet you'll wish you had Mission Select.

Am I the only one that kept multiple saves for DMC1 for each mission?

 

[TheSeks]

Or they just continue with multiple playable characters in 5, including Nero, and leaving that devil bringer mechanic exclusive for him.[

It honestly boggles my mind that shitty mechanic is included on Vergil and Lady/Trish. Meanwhile, Dante has those platforms to get around it. You'd think they'd do Dante's function for Vergil and Lady/Trish with MAYBE MAYBE Lady keeping the grapple for her mechanics.

Am I the only one that kept multiple saves for DMC1 for each mission?

Yes. Though, to be honest I was coming at it from Biohazard and not an action game view. IMO, DMC1 isn't really worth playing. I know that's sacriledge for some, but it's a pretty weak action title and a pretty weak Biohazard-style adventure. Terrible camera angles (which granted, DMC2/3/4 keep) doesn't help matters either. Nearly gave up when those panthers in that one main hall room were first encountered.

 

[PensivePen]

Am I the only one that kept multiple saves for DMC1 for each mission?

I did this as well, mainly just for the missions I really liked though.

 

[BeautifulMemory]

Deep down, you know it's true. Go back and try playing DMC1 from a save file stuck in the middle of the game, and I bet you'll wish you had Mission Select.

I did play a couple of weeks ago. The games pacing was so fantastic within and between missions that I had little trouble to get going. In fact I wanted to keep playing

I just accept the game for what it was meant to be

 

[Tyrant Rave]

*Pause combos transfer in between weapons. Not a brand new mechanic for action games (Darksiders 2 did it first) but it would be new for the series and thus a welcome feature for DMC5.

I think it's a fine idea for something like Bayonetta (with its emphasis on landing wicked weaves), but I don't think DMC really needs something like this if I'm being honest.

 

[Chamber]

Am I the only one that kept multiple saves for DMC1 for each mission?

Nah, some times I just have to go and fight Nelo Angelo 3.

 

[skLaFarebear]

DMC1 was a cool fucking game. There are things I think it still does better than even DMC4, mostly its environment and boss fights.

I'm playing through 4 for the first time now (mission 14 atm), but I have yet to see a boss in 4 as great as Nelo Angelo 3.

 

[Dahbomb]

I think it's a fine idea for something like Bayonetta (with its emphasis on landing wicked weaves), but I don't think DMC really needs something like this if I'm being honest.

It doesn't negatively impact anything and it gives you more options in the game for combo continuity.

Like it's a PURE NET POSITIVE for the game.

 

[toastyToast]

The backtracking in DMC4 is the least of the problems with the campaign. The platforming, the dice puzzle, the laser traps in the castle, the terrible bosses like Agnus, Savior and Sanctus. It's not that any of that stuff is difficult but it just makes you think, "Why?"

I like DMC4 but I never did like it thaaaat much, it has too much garbage the combat doesn't make up for. The bosses are some of the crappiest in the series. I don't know how this game followed 3.

I'm hopeful that the huge gap between games will motivate Itsuno's team to really outdo themselves for DMC5.

 

[BeautifulMemory]

I want to keep a file to fight against nightmare as well. Why? Cuz that fight takes some serious patience and skills.

 

[Dahbomb]

I'm hopeful that the huge gap between games will motivate Itsuno's team to really outdo themselves for DMC5.

I think it's more of a matter of budget and time than Itsuno's own motivation or talent.

Like no way did Itsuno WANT to put in that latter half of Dante in DMC4. Hell it was because of Itsuno's good will that Trish/Lady even made it into DMC4SE because those two were not planned in the original budgeting/planning for DMC4SE.

 

[badcrumble]

It'd be neat to see Mundus as a Devil Arm sometime.

 

[ezekial45]

I mean you're not wrong but I'd still rather play any randomly chosen mission in DMC1 than any mission of my choosing in DMC2.

Again, I'm not putting DMC2 above DMC1. I am saying that the mission select in DMC2 was a smart decision that recognized the need to offer more accessible play that catered to the core action nature of the game. Once more, accessibility for these types of games is important. I remember how people had so much of hard time getting the right moments and actions right for videos because of the linear nature of DMC1. Having the choice to pick where you want to go, and who you want fight is very important for these types of games.

But your argument for modernization boils down to those two specific inclusions (and the gunswapping) and nothing else. I wouldn't say that those two inclusions somehow make the game far more palatable and modern than DMC1 overall, especially since the actual underlying execution of those two additions were abysmal.

I think they do. Once again, I think DMC2 is a poor game, however the features they introduced, which DMC3/4, and other action games like Bayonetta, and MGR incorporated, are key features for the modern character action genre. Just because the game is poor, doesn't mean it can't have an impact and make changes for the better. And that's exactly the case for DMC2. It better made design choices than the original, and though the gameplay is not entirely present, its line of thinking and design choices still live on.

That's all I'm saying.

Am I the only one that kept multiple saves for DMC1 for each mission?

I did too, and I hated it. That's a terrible workaround.

 

[PensivePen]

snip

I get where you're coming from I just think a lot of us are interpreting you saying "DMC2 is more playable than DMC1" as "DMC2 is a more fun game to play." Even though I realize that's not the intent I can't help but be irked a little by it, lol.

 

[OniBaka]

It doesn't negatively impact anything and it gives you more options in the game for combo continuity.

Like it's a PURE NET POSITIVE for the game.

I don't like it, a lot of the time in DmC I just wanted to switch weapons with their normal combo but ended up doing combo B due to being mid combo with the other weapon.

It sounds cool but was more annoying than I thought.

 

[toastyToast]

I think it's more of a matter of budget and time than Itsuno's own motivation or talent.

Like no way did Itsuno WANT to put in that latter half of Dante in DMC4. Hell it was because of Itsuno's good will that Trish/Lady even made it into DMC4SE because those two were not planned in the original budgeting/planning for DMC4SE.

True. Given all the time in the world I think the team could make the best action game ever (potentially). The issue is how they utilize their budget and time given and that definitely is a measure of talent as well. If anything I'm sure that all those parameters will be more clearly defined and the project won't get kneecapped like DMC4 was.

 

[Afrocious]

I think DMC could do with a mode where we could pick and choose which bosses we wanted to fight with whichever character we wanted.

Though the game only had one playable character, MGS3 Subsistence did this. This was my favorite added feature aside from the new camera.

 

[Ghost Slayer]

Uhmm, so how Judgement Cut mechanic work? I think we just hold triangle to use it but i accidently use it very fast at the end of some moves that it doesn't need to charge.

 

[PensivePen]

I think DMC could do with a mode where we could pick and choose which bosses we wanted to fight with whichever character we wanted.

Though the game only had one playable character, MGS3 Subsistence did this. This was my favorite added feature aside from the new camera.

It's really one of the most basic features that should have been in the game since the original vanilla version of DMC4. The only reason it's even excusable for DMC3 to lack this feature is that Mission 18 basically serves that function.

 

[ArclightBorealis]

Uhmm, so how Judgement Cut mechanic work? I think we just hold triangle to use it but i accidently use it very fast at the end of some moves that it doesn't need to charge.

Judgment Cuts have a Just Frame variation. When Vergil does it instantly, it means you released the button at the right moment when charging. Every move with the Yamato can be turned into a Judgment Cut and have their own unique timings.

 

[nOoblet16]

Spiral swords, or. blitz swords.

All the enemies have some tactic to them

This isn't directed to you, more as a general statement:

Its a shame some people just want to mash the melee button on any and everything, and then get annoyed when they don't win.

Its probably why ninja theory dumbed down all the enemies and bosses to herp a derp levels.

Like I said, I have not even touched ranged abilities, only put my points into the three melee abilities. I wasn't mashing, I knew I had to hit the gladius sword but I didn't know exactly when or how much I would need to hit so as to trigger the shot. Even if you say it isn't directed at me you are directing that to me, why would you quote me otherwise.

 

[Afrocious]

Like I said, I have not even touched ranged abilities, only put my points into the three melee abilities. I wasn't mashing, I knew I had to hit the gladius sword but I didn't know exactly when or how much I would need to hit so as to trigger the shot.

Yeah man, Summoned Swords eat Mephistos alive. The two abilities at the very least you can get for them wreck them.

 

[Ghost Slayer]

Judgment Cuts have a Just Frame variation. When Vergil does it instantly, it means you released the button at the right moment when charging. Every move with the Yamato can be turned into a Judgment Cut and have their own unique timings.

Thanks for info. The game didn't explain this in tutorial so i confused a lot

 

[aravuus]

Got the game on PC and it's my first DMC ever

Only a half an hour in so far but jesus christ those cutscenes are fucking awesome

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

How do i counter sanctus 2 with lady. I read that forward triangle does it, but that move has mad start up

 

[darkslayer101]

so... any new tease/news on DMC5 front?

 

[Seyavesh]

How do i counter sanctus 2 with lady. I read that forward triangle does it, but that move has mad start up

right before he enters the actual attack you'll see him pull back his sword, do forward + melee there and lady will be active enough to counter him 100% of the time

i can do this literally 100% and i still am unable to counter him or echidna with buster so that should tell you how easy it is

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

*A Devil Bringer that you can manually command whether you want it to pull enemies or make you traverse towards enemies. It's not nearly as fluid as Nero's Devil Bringer but I like the versatility of it in DmC.

I don't know, I want Nero's Devil Bringer to be his own thing.

You pull light enemies to you and big enemies pull you to them, I think this system is good enough.

*Removed puzzle solving and backtracking almost completely. Say whatever you want about the story, the characters, even the platforming... but as an action game DmC keeps the pace up because it doesn't bog down the campaign with shitty puzzles or unnecessary backtracking.

Even God of War has some puzzles, I don't think puzzles and backtracking should be removed completely. You're going to need something to pace the players between the combat rooms.

 

[Dahbomb]

Not being able to pull yourself to lighter enemies kinda limits the movement possibilities of Nero. It's basically another tool in Nero's arsenal that he can have. Again, it's a net positive to the game... it's not replacing anything or subtracting from his toolset.

Even God of War has some puzzles, I don't think puzzles and backtracking should be removed completely. You're going to need something to pace the players between the combat rooms.

Backtracking is usually fine if its done well. The level design has to be immaculate for it to justify backtracking.

Puzzle solving is getting less and prevalent in action games. MGR doesn't have it. Bayonetta has less of it (still has some but they are super basic, mechanics based puzzles). The Souls games don't have any puzzles, it's all just exploration and adventuring which is also fine in a DMC game. Even the RE games are cutting down on the puzzles.

 

[Pappasman]

What makes the DmCE style system so good compared to the others?

Also what is the move where vergil spins the sword around before the stinger in this gif? Is it a DT taunt?

 

[Afrocious]

What makes the DmCE style system so good compared to the others?

Also what is the move where vergil spins the sword around before the stinger in this gif? Is it a DT taunt?

Yeah, it's just a taunt that can do damage lol

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Backtracking is usually fine if its done well. The level design has to be immaculate for it to justify backtracking.

How about Bloodborne style shortcuts and high level areas initially blocked off?

Puzzle solving is getting less and prevalent in action games. MGR doesn't have it. Bayonetta has less of it (still has some but they are super basic, mechanics based puzzles). The Souls games don't have any puzzles, it's all just exploration and adventuring which is also fine in a DMC game. Even the RE games are cutting down on the puzzles.

MGR might be simply due to the budget and development schedules, but it still have other segments to break up the fighting like "stealth" or the on rail moments. Souls have some environmental puzzles though, like pulling this switch would change the environment, I think the sunken city had something like that.

Still, I don't disagree with your examples, essentially it comes down to good level design right? Do we know if Itsuno takes inspirations from which other games?

 

[ArclightBorealis]

Yeah, it's just a taunt that can do damage lol

The best kind of taunt.

 

[Rhaknar]

The story is the same from regular dmc4 right? If one doesn't particulary care about playing Virgil or the ladies?

The remaster part only works for consoles since pc dmc4 was already 1080p 60 fps etc

 

[Afrocious]

The story is the same from regular dmc4 right? If one doesn't particulary care about playing Virgil or the ladies?

Yeah, but fuck if you'd be missing out on what makes the Special Edition special.

 

[Dahbomb]

What makes the DmCE style system so good compared to the others?

Also what is the move where vergil spins the sword around before the stinger in this gif? Is it a DT taunt?

That's a Taunt for Vergil available on S or higher rank. It also does damage.

The DmC Style gauge system has the following changes compared to DMC4:

*Style ranking actually decays down to D rank and then to no rank. There's no decay of Style in DMC4 for B or lower I believe. You can dick around for a minute or so in combat and still be at B rank.

*Style rank decay is actually a lot faster than in DMC4. It's similar to DMC3's Style gauge in that aspect where it rewards you for being more aggressive.

*If you don't do anything for a short period of time the gauge disappears and during this time the decay is very rapid. This is another means of preventing players from just playing too passively to try to maintain high style rank safely.

*Repetition of attacks doesn't contribute to Style points in DmC DE, it only raises style bar. This was something that could be exploited in the DMC4 leaderboards.

*The move repetition table in DmC is smaller than in DMC4.

*Penalty for repeating a move is harsher in DmC than in DMC4.


Of course this is mostly talking about the Hardcore modifier for DmC DE. The one in DmC vanilla was just really bad and trashy.... it was almost completely reworked for DmC DE and then additional changes added to the Hardcore modifier.

If I could put it in simpler terms, it would be that DmC's Style gauge system has quicker changes based on your play where as the DMC4's style gauge moves slower to your actions and is less forgiving. DmC's Style gauge is also the most similar to DMC3's style gauge which emulated the crazy, roller coaster of an action fest that was DMC3 (style bar moved up fast but moved down fast too).

 

[BKatastrophe]

I don't agree at all, the enemy/boss patterns, level design and feel of your attacks all hold up incredibly well. I'm also someone who has no problem with fixed camera angles at all, though I recognize most people don't like them.

Those enclosed spaces suck so much for me. I hate them as much as the wide-openness of DMC2.

Stuff that DmC has introduced that might get introduced into DMC5 which would make it a better game:

*The Doppelganger system in DmC. DmC Vergil is something that is similar to DMC4 Dante tier in terms of ridiculously high cap potentially and that's due to the Doppelganger system. Unfortunately, DmC as a game is not going to survive for nearly a decade in terms of high level play and thus a brilliant system like this is going to be lost to the action game world (or the full potential of it). My hope is that Itsuno puts it into DMC5 in some form so that the hardcore DMC players can push it to its limit.

I agree with all of it, but this is one thing that got me in particular: my thought was always that if a more powerful Vergil became playable again after DMC3, he should have Dante's Quicksilver and Doppelganger styles. DmC comes along and gives me at least half of that.

Someone should get Quicksilver, if not Vergil. Quicksilver should come back, damn it!

 

[ArclightBorealis]

Donguri's Vergil has improved greatly. And this is just a practice video (plus some Dante footage to remind us of what huge scrubs we are in comparison).

It's weird, Sanctus is a terrible boss fight, but Vergil's tools makes fighting him somewhat more enjoyable than it ought to be. Way easier to keep up with as opposed to Nero.

 

[PensivePen]

Donguri's Vergil has improved greatly. And this is just a practice video (plus some Dante footage to remind us of what huge scrubs we are in comparison).

It's weird, Sanctus is a terrible boss fight, but Vergil's tools makes fighting him somewhat more enjoyable than it ought to be. Way easier to keep up with as opposed to Nero.

I think Sanctus can be pretty fun to fight, he's just horrible as a the game's final boss thematically and mechanically. He would be inoffensive if he were just another random boss.

Spoiler

The final buster with Nero is cool though.

 

[skLaFarebear]

Donguri's Vergil has improved greatly. And this is just a practice video (plus some Dante footage to remind us of what huge scrubs we are in comparison).

It's weird, Sanctus is a terrible boss fight, but Vergil's tools makes fighting him somewhat more enjoyable than it ought to be. Way easier to keep up with as opposed to Nero.

That Dante footage.

I'll never be half as good as that in my life.

 

[Dahbomb]

I see the Vergil footage of Doguri and think "ok I can do that if I play for a few more hours a day and get my teleport cancels/Judgemnt Cuts on point".

I see the Dante footage of Doguri and am like "nnnnnnnaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh".

 

[LTWheels]

Would you want a single button dodge in dmc5?

It would most likely take up a shoulder button and would maybe mean the end to dmc4 subtle weapon scrolling, and back to a weapon switching system that bayonetta still uses.

Also could potentially mean more aggressive enemies?

 

[skLaFarebear]

Would you want a single button dodge in dmc5?

It would most likely take up a shoulder button and would maybe mean the end to dmc4 subtle weapon scrolling, and back to a weapon switching system that bayonetta still uses.

Also could potentially mean more aggressive enemies?

Nah, I like how DMC4 especially handles dodges like with Nero's Tablehopper and Dante's Trickster.

 

[LTWheels]

Nah, I like how DMC4 especially handles dodges like with Nero's Tablehopper and Dante's Trickster.

The thing I don't like with the current system is how it functions with fixed camera angles. Getting a roll when I want a back jump/forward and vice versa.