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DF - Our First Look At FSR 4? AMD's New AI Upscaling Tech Is Impressive!
- Thread starter HeisenbergFX4
- Start date
Zuzu
Member
Here’s an AI summary:
CES Expectations and AMD's Presentation
- The discussion begins with the presenters, Alex Battalia and his colleague, expressing their high expectations for AMD at CES, anticipating the unveiling of new RDNA 4 GPUs and FSR 4 technologies.
- Despite some journalists being briefed on these products, AMD did not showcase them in a formal presentation due to alleged timing issues.
- Instead, AMD revealed some technologies in a less conventional manner that surprised both presenters.
Visit to the AMD Booth
- The presenters recount their experience at the AMD booth, which was actually a suite in a hotel rather than a traditional booth setup.
- They entered with low expectations as AMD had not provided much information about the RDNA 4 GPUs or FSR 4 technologies prior to the event.
- Upon arrival, they found various displays, including a Black Ops stand, but lacked context about the technologies being showcased.
- During their exploration, they encountered familiar AMD representatives who introduced them to a research project involving FSR 4 technology.
FSR 4 Research Project Overview
- The research project featured two PCs, one running FSR 3.1 and the other presumably showcasing a work-in-progress version of FSR 4, which utilized machine learning-based upscaling.
- They observed gameplay from Ratchet and Clank, comparing the performance of both versions in real-time.
- The presenters noted that the right PC was equipped with an engineering sample of the latest RDNA 4 GPU, which had not been publicly announced.
Image Quality Comparisons
- The presenters conducted a detailed comparison of image quality between FSR 3.1 and the new research version, noting significant improvements in various aspects.
- They highlighted that the research project demonstrated better image quality than FSR 3.1, particularly in handling fine textures like carpet patterns without introducing moiré artifacts.
- The improved image quality was especially noticeable in background objects and effects, with fewer flickering issues compared to FSR 3.1.
Technical Observations and Artifacts
- The presenters noted that while both versions exhibited some artifacts due to the offscreen capture method, the research project appeared cleaner and more stable in person.
- They also commented on the overall sharpness of the image produced by the research project, which was not soft and maintained a high level of detail.
- Specific improvements were noted in particle effects and animation fluidity, particularly concerning confetti and background animations, which had previously suffered from issues in earlier FSR versions.
Conclusions and Future Implications
- The presenters concluded that the new upscaling solution from AMD, although still a research project, showed promising advancements in image quality compared to previous iterations.
- They speculated about the potential relationship between AMD's new upscaler and Sony's PSR technology, noting that while both involve machine learning, they did not observe direct similarities in performance.
- The discussion ended with a light-hearted note about their experience at CES and the anticipation of more announcements and videos related to the event.
CES Expectations and AMD's Presentation
- The discussion begins with the presenters, Alex Battalia and his colleague, expressing their high expectations for AMD at CES, anticipating the unveiling of new RDNA 4 GPUs and FSR 4 technologies.
- Despite some journalists being briefed on these products, AMD did not showcase them in a formal presentation due to alleged timing issues.
- Instead, AMD revealed some technologies in a less conventional manner that surprised both presenters.
Visit to the AMD Booth
- The presenters recount their experience at the AMD booth, which was actually a suite in a hotel rather than a traditional booth setup.
- They entered with low expectations as AMD had not provided much information about the RDNA 4 GPUs or FSR 4 technologies prior to the event.
- Upon arrival, they found various displays, including a Black Ops stand, but lacked context about the technologies being showcased.
- During their exploration, they encountered familiar AMD representatives who introduced them to a research project involving FSR 4 technology.
FSR 4 Research Project Overview
- The research project featured two PCs, one running FSR 3.1 and the other presumably showcasing a work-in-progress version of FSR 4, which utilized machine learning-based upscaling.
- They observed gameplay from Ratchet and Clank, comparing the performance of both versions in real-time.
- The presenters noted that the right PC was equipped with an engineering sample of the latest RDNA 4 GPU, which had not been publicly announced.
Image Quality Comparisons
- The presenters conducted a detailed comparison of image quality between FSR 3.1 and the new research version, noting significant improvements in various aspects.
- They highlighted that the research project demonstrated better image quality than FSR 3.1, particularly in handling fine textures like carpet patterns without introducing moiré artifacts.
- The improved image quality was especially noticeable in background objects and effects, with fewer flickering issues compared to FSR 3.1.
Technical Observations and Artifacts
- The presenters noted that while both versions exhibited some artifacts due to the offscreen capture method, the research project appeared cleaner and more stable in person.
- They also commented on the overall sharpness of the image produced by the research project, which was not soft and maintained a high level of detail.
- Specific improvements were noted in particle effects and animation fluidity, particularly concerning confetti and background animations, which had previously suffered from issues in earlier FSR versions.
Conclusions and Future Implications
- The presenters concluded that the new upscaling solution from AMD, although still a research project, showed promising advancements in image quality compared to previous iterations.
- They speculated about the potential relationship between AMD's new upscaler and Sony's PSR technology, noting that while both involve machine learning, they did not observe direct similarities in performance.
- The discussion ended with a light-hearted note about their experience at CES and the anticipation of more announcements and videos related to the event.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Oh no a positive AMD video.
LectureMaster
Gold Member
I hope FSR and AMD stay competent, Nvidia monopoly is never gonna be good.
Senua
Member
Oh no a positive AMD video.
Mister Wolf
Member
A lot more stable.
owandeseis
Member
That's very surprising, and it doesn't have that noise/instability PSSR issue, i was sure it'd be the exact same upscaler just on a different platform.
DF says the game had no RT, and that's where PSSR suffers the most so we have to see more but damn.
AMD can become a real good choice with a decent price, hope they have a better price parity for Europe than NVidia did.
DF says the game had no RT, and that's where PSSR suffers the most so we have to see more but damn.
AMD can become a real good choice with a decent price, hope they have a better price parity for Europe than NVidia did.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
This looks really good. I think AMD finally caught up here, which is great news. That opening scene with the crowd flanking on each side is one the best ways to test upscaling, especially their legs since there's so much overlap it's easy to turn it into temporal soup.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I love what I am hearing about FSR4. I would be OK, if the new 9070 kept 7900XT rast performance but made FSR4 in the ballpark of DLSS and ray tracing on par with a 4070 Ti.
While DLSS and FG will likely still be superior, if that gap is closed and they are priced competitively (at least 20% less than equal nvidia GPU) AMD could make some noise.
Of course, I want to upgrade my 4090 to a 5090, because I am fucking crazy.
While DLSS and FG will likely still be superior, if that gap is closed and they are priced competitively (at least 20% less than equal nvidia GPU) AMD could make some noise.
Of course, I want to upgrade my 4090 to a 5090, because I am fucking crazy.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Closer
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
AI is already replacingadamsapple those bastards
Zathalus
Member
Who knows? There appears to be little similarity between the observed image we see here with FSR4 and PSSR. Notable, the telltale sign of PSSR in action, the image instability that often looks like fine film grain, is completely absent. Even in the Mark Cerny presentation the ML instructions for the PS5 Pro apparently differ from the WMMA instructions in RDNA, so they diverged there as well. Maybe the separate paths will merge in future, like how CDNA and RDNA is merging into UDNA, which would probably mean UDNA and the PS6 will have dedicated Matrix accelerators.
Closer
Member
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Are there costs involved in licensing FSR4 tech?
Crayon
Member
huh. They got a decent shot there for off-screen footage.
Idk if the comparison is a great measure because fsr 2/3 on performance mode is brutal. The fsr4 shot on it's own says a lot, though. For performance mode that's looking great.
There's people on the way to tell us nvidia is still 6 generations ahead. Bring snacks.
Idk if the comparison is a great measure because fsr 2/3 on performance mode is brutal. The fsr4 shot on it's own says a lot, though. For performance mode that's looking great.
There's people on the way to tell us nvidia is still 6 generations ahead. Bring snacks.
XesqueVara
Member
No, Just that RDNA4 as a whole is way more faster in AI than what the ps5 pro has.
They really invested on that area on this gen.
Senua
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It could also be a newer revision based off the same foundation of tech.
Zathalus
Member
All the previous FSR implementations have been open source and no cost was needed to implement it. Unsure for FSR4. I'd imagine it is a simple explanation, PS5 Pro and RDNA 4 had similar designs but diverged in certain aspects and the PSSR/FSR4 teams were separate and working on different timescales. PSSR needed to be ready 4 months ago, FSR4 is still not out yet. Or Sony just wanted full control over their own upscaling solution and doesn't want it to be open source?
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I don’t see how it’s faster, ps5 pro has 300 tops
Wolzard
Member
I assume AMD didn't have the technology ready by the date Sony would like. The FSR4 would have been in production for months.
Or more likely that Sony started it on its own a few years ago.
OverHeat
« generous god »
Is it supposed to be impressive? Seriously I don’t know shit about AI !
TheRedRiders
Member
If it's true that PSSR and FSR 4 are different technologies then that would raise a lot of interesting questions as to why both pursued different technologies even though they're in a technical partnership for ML development.
I t may also explain several of Cerny's remarks about the Pro's ML hardware being "custom".
I t may also explain several of Cerny's remarks about the Pro's ML hardware being "custom".
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Presumably Sony is going to keep researching PSSR though.
It is strange that’s there’s not more of a unified effort here
Zathalus
Member
It's pretty good in terms of the number itself, especially relative to the compute performance. The 9070 XT from AMD should have about 390 TOPs and a 4070 Super has about 290 TOPs (both INT 8). But each reach that number differently, WMMA for RDNA, Tensor cores for Nvidia, and PS5 Pro uses custom ML extensions. So It's not as simple as just comparing the number and calling it a day.
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OverHeat
« generous god »
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omegasc
Member
Looks like a PLAYSTATION3 ad
Crayon
Member
AMD is already a pretty decent choice if you are looking for discounted older models. For the latest stuff, it's a little different because they've been screwing that up for quite a while. Could change this time. Who knows.
I can't find the quote now but I think Cerny said Project Amethyst started fairly recently. So most likely FSR 4 and PSSR were developed separately and then at the end of PSSR's development, the two companies decided to come together for future projects relating to UDNA.
Zathalus
Member
It’s a different metric. 300 from the Pro is regular INT8, so for the 5090 that would be 1676. Which is probably a bit overkill just for DLSS.Thx!!!
So I guess this bullshit? Or PR!
StereoVsn
Gold Member
It is pretty great if you want to run local models on a GPU, alongside wide bandwidth and 32GB VRAM.
Zathalus
Member
Oh yeah, for personal AI stuff it’s great.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
If this comes in around a 7900XT and at a good price I might buy it.
They need to get FSR4 and FG into as many games as possible. At a decent starting frame rate, FSR3 FG is already really good. I use it over DLSS FG because it's more performant and I can't see the difference in gameplay.
They need to get FSR4 and FG into as many games as possible. At a decent starting frame rate, FSR3 FG is already really good. I use it over DLSS FG because it's more performant and I can't see the difference in gameplay.
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crazyriddler
Member
My God, PS5 Pro with the worst AI upscaling technology available and that being its selling point for $699, being in raw power just a vitaminised PS5. In a few months any mid/low end graphics card will get better results than PS5 Pro, sad.
SKYF@ll
Member
PSSR will also be improved through updates in a few months.
I'm excited to see what FSR4 and PSSR will ultimately show us in the Amethyst Collaboration.
Wolzard
Member
"You don't need AI for good upscaling, FSR2/3 is open and it will improve itself soon to be better than DLSS and can be run on every hardware, dedicated hardware like tensor cores are classic Nvidia scam"
To be fair, this is the worst case, performance mode, in which FSR 3 can't upscale low-resolution sources very well. In quality mode, it is a little more acceptable, depending on the game.
sncvsrtoip
Member
Seems like Sony wasted their resources big time with pssr development. And will be even funnier if ps5pro is not comaptible with fsr4, what a disastrous console.
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