Diablo 3 Beta [Beta withdrawal underway!]

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erragal said:
Saying it's not an RPG because it lacks level up choices is absurd and shows a complete lack of understanding of those elements
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Well it's a good thing that's not what I'm saying because that would have been absurd.

What I was saying is that I agree with maharg's statement.

maharg said:
This is what I've been saying. There really doesn't seem to be much roleplaying to it in the traditional sense at all anymore. And whether or not I like the final product (I LIKE action games), I will mourn the fact that they filled that niche with something awesome and now they've chosen to retreat entirely from that genre.
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Some of the more traditional aspects of RPGS have been taken out.

I agree with the removal/alteration of some of those

I disagree with the removal/alteration of some of those.
 
ParityBit said:
1) Although true that it was loot, it dynamically changed your characters abilities and skills which one may or may not have had. Without skill trees in addition to this, character development is 100% non existent.

2) Actually, I am very much describing the truth. Just because a majority of people wanted a "best" or "power" build does not take away from the fact you had many options and decisions to make. I never made a cookie cutter build but now there is no real reason not to. I have no decisions to make. They are catering to the WoW causal crowd [I don't mean the whole WoW community! Just the casuals which spawned at a super rate with WoW]

I believe that if there is a time for another company to take over the crown of the best ARPG away from the Diablo series, now is the time. At least until Blizzard "patches" in new changes in the system. Unfortunately I love my Diablo and have been talking about D3 for years so I am too much invested.
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Was the post i was referring to in regards to there not being any choices to make, specifically the part that says "I have no decisions to make." But I sure am glad you linked that long list again regardless.
 
Rentahamster said:
Well it's a good thing that's not what I'm saying because that would have been absurd.

What I was saying is that I agree with maharg's statement.



Some of the more traditional aspects of RPGS have been taken out.

I agree with the removal/alteration of some of those

I disagree with the removal/alteration of some of those.
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Skill trees and stat points on level up aren't traditional at all. Traditional rpgs gave you new skills/spells/classes but often your base stats were relatively difficult to improve. In a lot of ways D3 is moving closer to the traditional dungeon crawler model the genre developed from.
 
ParityBit said:
Skill modifiers on items is fine. But then that takes a power spot on the item. Rather than a bunch of powers in one slot [Like 7 from Principle] you would instead get +2 to a skill. You can defend the decision all you want, it doesn't change the fact that a good majority of people do not like it.
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Exactly this. The depth will still be there for runes, but it's affecting the loot more so than it would have in the previous iteration. As a separate system, you had more choice. Now you have to compromise/tailor your gear with the +skill modifier (certain to be powerful/desired) in mind, whereas it either wouldn't exist before, or could be viewed as an option to further enhance skill already made powerful by high level runes.

helloresolven said:
I think we just have to come to the realization that this is no longer an ARPG, but almost purely an action game.
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That's a pretty astute observation. They've certainly cut or trimmed a lot of features that would be considered in the traditional type of RPG systems territory. Even so, there's plenty of room for the addition of further systems in patches or expansions (which we probably won't see until 2014 at the earliest ;_; ) The cut talisman system is one example.
 
V_Arnold said:
So basically your anecdotal evidence is better than my anecdotal evidence? Alright, I do not really care about that e-peen measurement
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Look. If I say I've never seen the space shuttle, so it clearly doesn't exist, that really doesn't mean much. If you come along and tell me you saw one launch at cape canaveral, it kind of defeats my argument, doesn't it?

In the end, they're both anecdotal and there's a reason anecdotes aren't treated with much respect. But positive anecdotes ("I saw...") are certainly more useful than negative ones ("I never saw...") to determine whether or not something exists.
 
CarbonatedFalcon said:
Beta Patch 14 is going out today! http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4138438602#1

Really long maintenance times though. But I guess it has been that way throughout the beta. I'm curious to see what's changed. Hopefully they fixed the Mac stuttering issue, though I read on the forums that it may occur on PC too.
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Awesome. I'm really hoping we see some of the UI concerns addressed along with the battle.net issues for questing and grouping with people/friends.
 
CarbonatedFalcon said:
Beta Patch 14 is going out today! http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4138438602#1

Really long maintenance times though. But I guess it has been that way throughout the beta. I'm curious to see what's changed. Hopefully they fixed the Mac stuttering issue, though I read on the forums that it may occur on PC too.
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Yes, please. I play on my Macbook Pro. OSX was unplayable... Win7 thru bootcamp only playable in windowed mode. Prior to patch 13 I was running it soooo silky smooth on highest setting in both OSX and Win7.

*crosses fingers*
 
Truant said:
Any way to get into the beta now? Want some loot actiones.
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Sure.

Sign up at this website. Listen to their podcast. Like their thousand social website pages. Write a 1000 word essay on what Diablo lore means to your life. Jump through some hoops and post the video on Youtube. Watch their live stream of the beta you've already seen a million times.

Then maybe, just maybe, you could win a key. If you refresh their site at 10:30:42 AM. Time zone not specified.
 
helloresolven said:
Sure.

Sign up at this website. Listen to their podcast. Like their thousand social website pages. Write a 1000 word essay on what Diablo lore means to your life. Jump through some hoops and post the video on Youtube. Watch their live stream of the beta you've already seen a million times.

Then maybe, just maybe, you could win a key. If you refresh their site at 10:30:42 AM. Time zone not specified.
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So you're telling me there's a chance..

eWt53.png
 
The recent blue posts regarding magic find in this game made me reflect for a bit on if this really is a good thing to have in this game. It applies to most loot-centric games in general, so I decided to make a new thread about it.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35853257


I'm of the opinion that they should just get rid of it. For Diablo III specifically, they should give magic find bonuses for clearing act monsters, act quests, boss mobs, etc that affect the MF of the Act boss kill. Doing so would ensure that playing through an entire act and killing the boss is the best way to get good gear, instead of just doing boss runs all the time.
 
Rentahamster said:
The recent blue posts regarding magic find in this game made me reflect for a bit on if this really is a good thing to have in this game. It applies to most loot-centric games in general, so I decided to make a new thread about it.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35853257


I'm of the opinion that they should just get rid of it. For Diablo III specifically, they should give magic find bonuses for clearing act monsters, act quests, boss mobs, etc that affect the MF of the Act boss kill. Doing so would ensure that playing through an entire act and killing the boss is the best way to get good gear, instead of just doing boss runs all the time.
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I really like this idea and it was used in Too Human. For each section of the act/level that you cleared you were awarded a token that increased the chance to get good loot from the boss.
 
Rentahamster said:
For Diablo III specifically, they should give magic find bonuses for clearing act monsters, act quests, boss mobs, etc that affect the MF of the Act boss kill. Doing so would ensure that playing through an entire act and killing the boss is the best way to get good gear, instead of just doing boss runs all the time.
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I guess this suggests something like that.
 
I think this new system being discussed of enhancing the boss loot by having to run through and actually do other parts of the game is sorely needed. With the philosophy that they didn't want bosses to drop the best loot, curtailing boss run behavior, they made the bosses pretty much obsolete - which really doesn't make much sense from a design perspective.

"Oh, that cool boss that has more abilities and is tougher than any random monster? Yeah, killing it isn't as rewarding."

So having a multiplier of sorts (or whatever it is exactly) makes much more sense to encourage players to fully delve into acts and work through them all the way for awesome rewards at the end, rather than just boss rush.
 
Fenror said:
I guess this suggests something like that.
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Yeah, that, and the recent controversy about the shared magic find is what compelled me to write that up. I had been thinking about it for a while now, just didn't get around to posting about it.

I had actually had the "completing content = MF" idea from a while back, actually.

Rentahamster said:
Hmm, I still think it would be a good idea to have the end boss' drop rate increase depending on how much of the content in that particular instance you've completed. That way the incentive would be to clear out as much as possible in good time, and then kill the boss.
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I remember thinking about it the first time years ago when they had said something about "we don't want players doing boss runs over and over again".
 
CarbonatedFalcon said:
I think this new system being discussed of enhancing the boss loot by having to run through and actually do other parts of the game is sorely needed. With the philosophy that they didn't want bosses to drop the best loot, curtailing boss run behavior, they made the bosses pretty much obsolete - which really doesn't make much sense from a design perspective.

"Oh, that cool boss that has more abilities and is tougher than any random monster? Yeah, killing it isn't as rewarding."

So having a multiplier of sorts (or whatever it is exactly) makes much more sense to encourage players to fully delve into acts and work through them all the way for awesome rewards at the end, rather than just boss rush.
Click to expand...

Rentahamster said:
Yeah, that, and the recent controversy about the shared magic find is what compelled me to write that up. I had been thinking about it for a while now, just didn't get around to posting about it.

I had actually had the "completing content = MF" idea from a while back, actually.



I remember thinking about it the first time years ago when they had said something about "we don't want players doing boss runs over and over again".
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Too Human (most overhated game on this site) was set up like that. KUF: Circle of Doom just plain -made- you go through the entire level every time to prevent this problem as well. EDIT: See Nacire mentioned Too Human as well.

I'm mostly just glad that Elites/Champions will be able to drop the best loot. The philosophy that they should be the most difficult enemies is one I'm hugely in favor of (Something Darkspore utilized as well...another game that's wayyy better designed than its' popularity would indicate)
 
Hmmm, so when this patch comes out does that mean that all of our characters get erased? I almost had all classes at level 13, haha.
 
nacire said:
I really like this idea and it was used in Too Human. For each section of the act/level that you cleared you were awarded a token that increased the chance to get good loot from the boss.
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For all the things Too Human did wrong the "loot whore" part of the game was great I thought.
 
Patch Notes!

Diablo III Beta Patch 14 – v. 0.8.0.8815
Released 3/8/12

General

Hardcore mode is now available, and can be unlocked by reaching level 10 with at least one character
Cast time to resurrect a fallen ally has been increased from 1 second to 3 seconds
Player created games now default to Invite Only. Check "Allow Quick Join" in the Social tab of the Options menu to allow your friends to join
Magic Find and Gold Find are now shared amongst party members. The average combined value of the entire party's Magic and Gold Find applies to all players regardless of location in the game world. The averaged values will not display in the UI

Skill UI

In Elective mode, skills can now be dragged and dropped from the skill interface into hot-key slots
Right-clicking a skill hot-key will now open the skill interface

Auction House

The Sell interface has been updated to better match the in-game inventory and stash
Combined the advanced and basic search features
The Active auctions tab now allows users to see all active auctions
Searches for recipes and tomes have been added

Classes

Barbarian

Barbarians now have innate 30% passive damage reduction versus all sources. This damage reduction is applied at the same time as all other damage reducing effects (such as Armor), but prior to shield block

Ground Stomp
Now destroys barrels

Leap Attack
Ability renamed to Leap
Weapon damage reduced from 125% to 85%
Now slows enemies in the landing zone by 60% for 3 seconds

Demon Hunter

Hungering Arrow
Rune of Puncturing Arrow pierce chance reduced from 55% to 50%

Impale
Rune of Impact stun chance reduced from 100% to 65%

Smoke Screen
Duration increased from 2 to 3 seconds.
Cost increased from 15 to 24 Discipline

Monk

Monks now have innate 30% passive damage reduction versus all sources. This damage reduction is applied at the same time as all other damage reducing effects (such as Armor), but prior to shield block

Breath of Heaven
Heal amount reduced

Crippling Wave
Damage increased from 100% to 110%

Deadly Reach
Damage increased from 100% to 110%

Exploding Palm
This skill has been redesigned.
No longer generates Spirit, now costs 40 Spirit
Now deals 220% weapon damage over 3 seconds

Fists of Thunder
Damage increased from 100% to110%

Crafting

Gold cost to craft items reduced
Cost to train Blacksmith doubled
More crafting materials are now required to craft items
Chance to salvage rare crafting material from blue Magic items reduced from 10% to 5%

Followers

Templar
Normal attack now deals 15% weapon damage
Intervene taunt reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds

Items

Several aspects of the game economy have been adjusted, including but not limited to:
Gold drops
Item sale values
Vendor costs
Repair costs
Rings and Amulets now become available at a higher level. As a result, these items will no longer drop in the in beta. Fear not – sparkly baubles await you in the retail version of the game.

Monsters

Mira Eamon now drops better loot.

Monster damage has been increased (Should be doubled)

Bug Fixes

For a full list of documented game and service bugs, please review the Known Issues sticky located in the Beta Bug Report forum.
Players are now able to leave the game if unexpectedly disconnected from Battle.net
Public Games can once again accommodate up to four players
Players can now queue for a Public Game involving any quest they’ve unlocked
Players should now properly be able to send and receive friend invites
Friends should no longer appear as [ ] in chat
Click to expand...
 
Time to Farm Mira more.
No rings sucks.

Magic Find and Gold Find are now shared amongst party members. The average combined value of the entire party's Magic and Gold Find applies to all players regardless of location in the game world. The averaged values will not display in the UI
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You fucking kidding me?
That's just asking to segment your player base.
 
Magic Find and Gold Find are now shared amongst party members. The average combined value of the entire party's Magic and Gold Find applies to all players regardless of location in the game world. The averaged values will not display in the UI.
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Thats fucking stupid. So, I have to get 3 friends with full mf guear to idle in town while I go killing shit and getting all the good drops... yeah that makes sense
 
Calidor said:
Thats fucking stupid. So, I have to get 3 friends with full mf guear to idle in town while I go killing shit and getting all the good drops... yeah that makes sense
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Or you could just wear MF gear yourself. I imagine the scenario you're suggesting is exactly the sort of thing they're trying to discourage by making it difficult.

I dunno how I feel about it, to be honest.
 
Wait, didn't they want to get rid of the MF dynamic by NOT sharing it between parties? I don't understand why they would incorporate that...
 
Doomsayer said:
Wait, didn't they want to get rid of the MF dynamic by NOT sharing it between parties? I don't understand why they would incorporate that...
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Or they should be innnovative and make a new MF system (say stringing mega kills or killing rares or, etc...). Outside of the rune system, which is still a modified talent tree IMHO, I haven't seen much innovation, just a lot of streamlining and improving aspects they believe didn't work well in D2 (like stat points) by semi-automating those systems.
 
Magic Find and Gold Find are now shared amongst party members. The average combined value of the entire party's Magic and Gold Find applies to all players regardless of location in the game world. The averaged values will not display in the UI
Click to expand...


Why? That makes no sense. They design the game so that everyone gets their own loot drops, that no one else can see or take, so why is someone's else's lack of MF gear affecting me? If the loot is per individual, then why isn't the MF per individual as well????

O_o
 
maharg said:
Or you could just wear MF gear yourself. I imagine the scenario you're suggesting is exactly the sort of thing they're trying to discourage by making it difficult.

I dunno how I feel about it, to be honest.
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No.

Say I'm playing Act 5 Hell Hardcore mode. I want to have gear that guarantees the most survivability and killing power, probably that means sacrificing other stats and being close to 0% MF.
Now, say I'm with 3 "friends" (can be my own 3 other accounts) partying with me and staying in idling in town with full MF gear that provides no other benefit other than to bump up the average % MF, while I keep killing stuff around with 0% and still getting the drops like I have a 150% MF gear..
 
Calidor said:
No.

Say I'm playing Act 5 Hell Hardcore mode. I want to have gear that guarantees the most survivability and killing power, probably that means sacrificing other stats and being close to 0% MF.
Now, say I'm with 3 "friends" (can be my own 3 other accounts) partying with me and staying in idling in town with full MF gear that provides no other benefit other than to bump up the average % MF, while I keep killing stuff around with 0% and still getting the drops like I have a 150% MF gear..
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You probably have to be near them not in town.
 
The magic find thing is weird, I agree. To make it worse, followers in a single player game add 20% of their magic/gold find to yours, so to have the highest possible magic find, you'd be soloing with a follower tagging along.

Supposedly, this is balanced by the fact that you can kill monsters more quickly while playing co-op, cycling through more possible drop opportunities quicker, but I have my doubts.

TylerD said:
It's not just for the beta but for retail as well. You play a character to level 10 and you unlock the ability to create hardcore characters.

http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/hardcore-change-is-permanent
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Huh. I didn't mind having to play all the way through normal to unlock hardcore - it sort of made sense. But I don't think anyone can see this as anything but a boon. If you want to play hardcore from the start and be surprised, you can. This satiates the well, hardcore hardcore community. Level 10 is where you're at (give or take slightly) when you kill the Skeleton King, so just beta content that isn't a surprise to anyone who has been following the game. At most that's about 3 hours, but you can definitely run through it in about 90 minutes at an average pace, and certainly faster if you blitz it.
 
maniac-kun said:
You probably have to be near them not in town.
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The average combined value of the entire party's Magic and Gold Find applies to all players regardless of location in the game world.
Click to expand...
Calidor said:
No.

Say I'm playing Act 5 Hell Hardcore mode. I want to have gear that guarantees the most survivability and killing power, probably that means sacrificing other stats and being close to 0% MF.
Now, say I'm with 3 "friends" (can be my own 3 other accounts) partying with me and staying in idling in town with full MF gear that provides no other benefit other than to bump up the average % MF, while I keep killing stuff around with 0% and still getting the drops like I have a 150% MF gear..
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You can have 3 idlers in town, but then the monsters have roughly 4x(?) their HP. It scales pretty linear at least so far in Beta.
 
maharg said:
MF wasn't shared in D2... Not even among your minions, iirc.
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It was shared by your minions/merc, but not your party members. Which is another reason this is an absurd addition.

maabus1999 said:
Or they should be innnovative and make a new MF system (say stringing mega kills or killing rares or, etc...). Outside of the rune system, which is still a modified talent tree IMHO, I haven't seen much innovation, just a lot of streamlining and improving aspects they believe didn't work well in D2 (like stat points) by semi-automating those systems.
Click to expand...

I think the deletion of stat points is a terrible mistake, I loved customizing different types of characters.

The only problem with D2 is that it became broken soon after Enigma, Call To Arms, Heart of the Oak, etc was introduced. Every character became the same and there was no creativity involved. I recently started a RiftSin in D2 and its such an original character and is so fun. I miss the days of that.

I trust Blizz with their plans, and I know the beta is only a taste to come but I hope they don't make the same mistake.
 
No surprise that patch maintenance has been delayed to 9PM PST.

Really liking most of the changes I am reading about and the datamined UI updates.
 
Mengy said:
Why? That makes no sense. They design the game so that everyone gets their own loot drops, that no one else can see or take, so why is someone's else's lack of MF gear affecting me? If the loot is per individual, then why isn't the MF per individual as well????

O_o
Click to expand...

So if everybody is killing the same mob, why is somebody's lack of offensive stats affecting me?

I don't understand why you guys are OK with carrying some MF stacker when you're playing together and killing the same things.

Should I be able to run full MF gear in a location+difficulty where I would die trying and make the other 3 people suffer and kill the shit for me while I get the loot?

Yes, the other side of the coin. Think about it sometimes.
 
Boken said:
So if everybody is killing the same mob, why is somebody's lack of offensive stats affecting me?

I don't understand why you guys are OK with carrying some MF stacker when you're playing together and killing the same things.

Should I be able to run full MF gear in a location+difficulty where I would die trying and make the other 3 people suffer and kill the shit for me while I get the loot?

Yes, the other side of the coin. Think about it sometimes.
Click to expand...
Because the 3 people not having maxed MF are clearly playing the game wrong and ruining it.
DUH
 
Booted up the Beta client. Still has stuttering issues on OS X, but besides that, there are some interesting new undocumented changes.

-Item requirements have changed. Mostly increases in level required to wear or wield, from what I can tell. A bunch of stuff I've been wearing now has a lock icon over it, saying that it requires a level higher than my characters (anywhere from 11 up to at least 14. My highest character is level 10.) Interestingly enough, when this happens, the item doesn't display on the character.

-Skill level requirements have changed. It applies to all classes (not sure about Witch Doctor since I haven't played one, but for all the others at least.) Some skills which I had last patch now have higher level requirements, others have been moved down. So there has been some shuffling going on. Mantra of Evasion on the Monk now requires level 19. However, since I had it equipped, I can still use it. The most significant changes seem to have occurred to the Demon Hunter, Wizard probably next. So you lose some toys and gain others this patch.

-Skill drag and drop, which is supposed to be in, doesn't work as far as I can tell.
 
Boken said:
So if everybody is killing the same mob, why is somebody's lack of offensive stats affecting me?

I don't understand why you guys are OK with carrying some MF stacker when you're playing together and killing the same things.

Should I be able to run full MF gear in a location+difficulty where I would die trying and make the other 3 people suffer and kill the shit for me while I get the loot?

Yes, the other side of the coin. Think about it sometimes.
Click to expand...

Or think about both sides of the coin?

Now, in order to appropriately MF, the whole party must stack MF. It really isn't logical, with the loot being individualized.

Best option would be if the lobby could have a "share MF/GF" toggle.
 
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