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[Seth C]

Okay, stats from my first 5 elite run on Act 3!

Time spent: Roughly 40 minutes
Deaths: 10
Potion Bill: 6,000
Repair Costs: 10,000
Items Found: 8 magic, 0 rare (from all enemies and chests)
Total Value: 2,100

Highlights include the highest level item (ilvl 61), with +44 arcan resist, -10 level requirement, and nothing else; and a level 60 quiver that is so shitty it's only worth 131 gold.

Including gold found along the way, a net loss of about 10,000. At this rate I can continue playing Act 3 for about 4 more hours before I am completely broke.

There was one Treasure Goblin along the way but even with Tyreal's help and no monsters around I couldn't kill it before I left because I can't deal enough damage.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Yes it is. Their RNG system has the AH in mind.

If the AH didn't exist they wouldn't design a system where you spent 200 hours and not find an upgrade for yourself.

As a monk you need every armor slot with X resist and all resist. That's literally impossible to do by yourself unless you use the AH.

Then perhaps you're just wording it poorly. What said (even if its not what you meant) is that when an item drops, the game checks to see whats on the AH, and then decides what kind of stats to roll based on the current state of the AH.

The RNG is just that - random. What takes the AH in mind is the itemization. Not the RNG

 

[Darkman M]

Okay, stats from my first 5 elite run on Act 3!

Time spent: Roughly 40 minutes
Deaths: 10
Potion Bill: 6,000
Repair Costs: 10,000
Items Found: 8 magic, 0 rare (from all enemies and chests)
Total Value: 2,100

Highlights include the highest level item (ilvl 61), with +44 arcan resist, -10 level requirement, and nothing else; and a level 60 quiver that is so shitty it's only worth 131 gold.

Lol repairing my armor in act 3 was costing me 40k+ every 20 or so minutes, to be honest with you i think farming act 2 is alot more efficient.

 

[Tom Penny]

Act 3 repair cost are not evening out at all

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Then perhaps you're just wording it poorly. What said (even if its not what you meant) is that when an item drops, the game checks to see whats on the AH, and then decides what kind of stats to roll based on the current state of the AH.

The RNG is just that - random. What takes the AH in mind is the itemization. Not the RNG

I'm not wording it poorly.

Why would anyone interpret that the stats rolled are based on the current state of the AH?

In WoW RNG loot means % chance to drop.

In D3 the chance that you get an item with useful stats together or an item you can personally use for yourself is very low because the game is designed for there to be a large collection of loot on the AH and for you to use the AH.

That's basically the % chance you get something useful or get something that you want. In D3 the AH makes it lower because it exists not because what's currently on it. In WoW, the AH doesn't matter.

 

[cpp_is_king]

I'm not wording it poorly.

Why would anyone interpret that the stats rolled are based on the current state of the AH?

In WoW RNG loot means % chance to drop.

.

Because the *RNG* which is what you said, takes absolutely nothing into consideration.

Rng means "random number generator". It does not take anything into consideration except the range of possible values in which to generate random numbers.

The fact that theres a low possibility to get something useful has nothing to do with the RNG and everything to do with the itemization.

 

[dwebo]

and here I was thinking every time an elite pack dropped a lvl 54 rare next to a ilvl 63 white item that the RNG was personally telling me to fuck off

 

[elrechazado]

Because the *RNG* which is what you said, takes absolutely nothing into consideration.

Rng means "random number generator". It does not take anything into consideration except the range of possible values in which to generate random numbers.

The fact that theres a low possibility to get something useful has nothing to do with the RNG and everything to do with the itemization.

No offense, but I think you're not taking into consideration what RNG actually means in the Blizzard communities such as WoW and Diablo.

 

[GJS]

I'm not wording it poorly.

Why would anyone interpret that the stats rolled are based on the current state of the AH?

In WoW RNG loot means % chance to drop.

In D3 the chance that you get an item with useful stats together or an item you can personally use for yourself is very low because the game is designed for there to be a large collection of loot on the AH and for you to use the AH.

That's basically the % chance you get something useful or get something that you want. In D3 the AH makes it lower because it exists not because what's currently on it. In WoW, the AH doesn't matter.

The AH was only introduced late in development.

The devs have basically said they intended for it to be a long and slow progression without the AH, with it taking months to progress further into inferno.

The drop rates were tuned for a player who would never use the Auction House. For the majority of internal development, we didn't have an Auction House, and we all played using our own drops only...

When we say we "took the AH into account," that means it's one of many factors -- i.e. some players will choose to play without trading, some players would play in a group of 4 where they share drops among each other, and some (as it turns out, many) players would use the AH.

Three weeks after launch, players' gear is much higher than what we were expecting. When I killed the Butcher on Inferno for the first time, I was using a weapon with 492 DPS.

 

[cpp_is_king]

No offense, but I think you're not taking into consideration what RNG actually means in the Blizzard communities such as WoW and Diablo.

What some people think it means and what it actually means are two different things.

What it actually means is random number generator.

 

[Zzoram]

492 DPS weapon killing Inferno Butcher? That sounds ridiculously hard, I couldn't imagine doing that.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Because the *RNG* which is what you said, takes absolutely nothing into consideration.

You just don't get it.

In WoW there is a finite number of items that exist in the game, that all have the same stats, and a finite number of items that can drop a week in a raid per character. The RNG is simply the % chance to drop.

In D3 the RNG is more complex. They allow all kinds of crazy stats together on one item because you can endlessly get loot. They also take in consideration of selling and buying items from the AH.

When you play for 200 hours and barely find anything for yourself to use, or nothing for yourself, you can easily conclude that the auction house is a large part of their RNG design and whether the auction house is currently live or down is irrelevant.

Spending 200 hours finding loot for other people and finding trash is not fun. At all.

 

[cpp_is_king]

You just don't get it.

In WoW there is a finite number of items that exist in the game, that all have the same stats, and a finite number of items that can drop a week in a raid per character. The RNG is simply the % chance to drop.

In D3 the RNG is more complex. They allow all kinds of crazy stats together on one item because you can endlessly get loot. They also take in consideration of selling and buying items from the AH.

When you play for 200 hours and barely find anything for yourself to use, or nothing for yourself, you can easily conclude that the auction house is a large part of their RNG design and whether the auction house is currently live or down is irrelevant.

I get it perfectly fine, i assure you. The issue is that you are using the term RNG when you actually mean "itemization"

 

[SUPARSTARX]

Tanked and spanked Rakanoth

1400 LOH
11k DPS
12k Thorns
950 resist all
77% AR
68k HP

lol

 

[Deadly]

Glad somebody posted the actual quotes. If you think about it, it would have been extremely difficult for them to design with "the AH in mind", in the sense it forces you to use it, because the development team can't exactly compare to the entire player base.

The AH is basically just more information being available to us, you think your drops suck because there's people getting better stuff out there.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I get it perfectly fine, i assure you. The issue is that you are using the term RNG when you actually mean "itemization"

RNG affects itemization.... anything that's random in the game.

 

[elrechazado]

What some people think it means and what it actually means are two different things.

What it actually means is random number generator.

Not to get meta linguistic here, but you're wrong. Terms like this mean what people intend them to mean. Look up the concept of "term of art". Communities define what terms like these mean, and appeals to dictionary definitions aren't helpful, unless you want to be pedantic and ignore context, which frankly you kind of are.

Tanked and spanked Rakanoth

1400 LOH
11k DPS
12k Thorns
950 resist all
77% AR
68k HP

lol

Careful, that doesn't sound like blizzard approved fun. Go major dps build or else they'll put in artificial enrage timers that force you to drop all of that unintended gear like resists and armor.

 

[Seth C]

Lol repairing my armor in act 3 was costing me 40k+ every 20 or so minutes, to be honest with you i think farming act 2 is alot more efficient.

Then that should give you an indication of just how bad my equipment is compared to yours. Fully destroyed, my repair costs are just under 10,000 gold. Act 2 farming is more efficient if I'm after gold. I farmed it for about 10 hours yesterday and saved up 400k gold, but in all that time I didn't find any equipment that was an improvement over the very meager stuff I have right now.

Anyway, another 10 deaths later and I've taken out 1 elite and 2 champions. 10,000 in repairs, 10,000 in potions, 6 magic items with 3 being worth less than 130 gold each, and 5 rares all valued at under 500 gold each and providing no improvement for me (though all for my class).

 

[teh_pwn]

I only found one semi-good item in about three days of farming.

Any idea of the gold value? I would know if it was LOH with attack speed or something like that. 258 vit, 140 all resist for an arcane stack monk? Wizards and WDs don't care about resists, right? Right now it's on my enchantress.

They don't get much better than that for a wizard. Maybe if the arcane resist was critical chance it would be among the best.


So apparently one of the reasons I couldn't proceed in act 2 was that zoltun insta kills you due to some shitastic coding by Blizzard regarding a rage timer. Switching from blur to glass canon allowed me to kill him in under 3 minutes. These guys have no idea what the fuck they're doing. I'm betting we get another patch this week that fixes 1 thing and does a bunch of other odd things.

I'll need to respec for Belial sometime this week. Guy rapes me before he gets to his 3rd form.

 

[Trickster]

492 DPS weapon killing Inferno Butcher? That sounds ridiculously hard, I couldn't imagine doing that.

Why would the weapon dps affect butcher difficulty? Whether you kill him in 2 minutes or 4 should make any difference, right?

 

[jersoc]

492 DPS weapon killing Inferno Butcher? That sounds ridiculously hard, I couldn't imagine doing that.

and then they made enrage timers! wooo

 

[Darkman M]

Why would the weapon dps affect butcher difficulty? Whether you kill him in 2 minutes or 4 should make any difference, right?

He enrages after 3 mins right?

 

[SUPARSTARX]

Careful, that doesn't sound like blizzard approved fun. Go major dps build or else they'll put in artificial enrage timers that force you to drop all of that unintended gear like resists and armor.

Yeah god forbid I might have fun too.

I need a bigger one hander to hit stuff.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Not to get meta linguistic here, but you're wrong. Terms like this mean what people intend them to mean. Look up the concept of "term of art". Communities define what terms like these mean, and appeals to dictionary definitions aren't helpful, unless you want to be pedantic and ignore context, which frankly you kind of are.

Thank you, wow.

 

[Trickster]

He enrages after 3 mins right?

Really? I thought it was 5 minutes.

 

[teh_pwn]

So if I hit a wall in act 3 and I want to cash out, what are my options? Do I have to use a paypal account to salvage my blizzbucks?

Really? I thought it was 5 minutes.

Remember, Blizzard patched the game so that you don't have to use the AH or online resources to tell what the hell is going on. Having an invisible, ambiguous death clock improves the single player experience or something. Was it a single high damage hit? Was it space magic? Speculation from everyone.

In the next patch, the merchant will reject your gold for repair and tell you "that'll be about tree fiddy".

 

[C.Dark.DN]

So if I hit a wall in act 3 and I want to cash out, what are my options? Do I have to use a paypal account to salvage my blizzbucks?

You choose between paypal or blizzbucks when you create the auction. The default is blizzbucks. There's no way to convert blizzbucks to paypal.

 

[teh_pwn]

You choose between paypal or blizzbucks when you create the auction. The default is blizzbucks. There's no way to convert blizzbucks to paypal.

Hmmm, I guess I could buy using the blizzbucks that I have, and sell to paypal.

 

[jersoc]

well, after almost 300 hours of no set items i have found 2 with 15 mins.

 

[dwebo]

Hmmm, I guess I could buy using the blizzbucks that I have, and sell to paypal.

yep. as long as you don't overvalue an item when you're buying, this isn't too bad

if you've got a good eye and/or are patient, you could even end up ahead after fees

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Hmmm, I guess I could buy using the blizzbucks that I have, and sell to paypal.

Yeah if you think something would sale with a re-list, that's the only way.

 

[GJS]

Then that should give you an indication of just how bad my equipment is compared to yours. Fully destroyed, my repair costs are just under 10,000 gold. Act 2 farming is more efficient if I'm after gold. I farmed it for about 10 hours yesterday and saved up 400k gold, but in all that time I didn't find any equipment that was an improvement over the very meager stuff I have right now.

Anyway, another 10 deaths later and I've taken out 1 elite and 2 champions. 10,000 in repairs, 10,000 in potions, 6 magic items with 3 being worth less than 130 gold each, and 5 rares all valued at under 500 gold each and providing no improvement for me (though all for my class).

There's not enough difference in drop rates between act 2 and 3 to warrant wasting gold on deaths to try and farm. Those deaths and repairs themselves are supposed to discourage you from doing so.

 

[ZealousD]

Just started Act 1 Inferno. Man, elite packs in this difficulty feel so uneven. Get a bad roll on an elite pack with reflect damage and I literally can not kill the elite before the reflect damage kills me. Or I get a silly roll and they drop in seconds.

 

[Seth C]

492 DPS weapon killing Inferno Butcher? That sounds ridiculously hard, I couldn't imagine doing that.

Of course it does, because it is effectively bullshit. We have no idea how hard the Butcher was then. Since then they have tweaked the difficulty many, many times I am sure. Also a big issue is the changes they recently made, with barrels not dropping anything and MF not working on chests. It greatly reduced the opportunity for a player to find equipment, as compared to how it was on release.

 

[Pop On Arrival]

Act 3 is a fucking joke now. Just did like 5 clears in inferno and I got jack shit. I've been getting bullshit ever since the patch hit. The fact that they did this and they thought no one would notice is unbelievable. Way to make the only thing that drives most people to play the game pathetic.

Yeah, I'm pretty mad right now lol.

 

[Trickster]

Just started Act 1 Inferno. Man, elite packs in this difficulty feel so uneven. Get a bad roll on an elite pack with reflect damage and I literally can not kill the elite before the reflect damage kills me. Or I get a silly roll and they drop in seconds.

Dunno what class you are, but imo having some life on hit to deal with things like reflect dmg is a must for inferno.

As a DH myself, If I didn't have the LoH that I currently have, I'd not be able to do inferno.

 

[ZealousD]

Has anybody worked out whether Act 4 Hell or walking into Whimsydale with a full NV stack is more efficient?

It feels like I get more gold in Whimsydale but it may be my imagination.

Dunno what class you are, but imo having some life on hit to deal with things like reflect dmg is a must for inferno.

As a DH myself, If I didn't have the LoH that I currently have, I'd not be able to do inferno.

Yeah I'm also a DH. I just bought a 2H bow with 450 LOH, so hopefully that improve things with Reflect Damage in particular. But I still can't deal with Fast.

 

[teh_pwn]

Just started Act 1 Inferno. Man, elite packs in this difficulty feel so uneven. Get a bad roll on an elite pack with reflect damage and I literally can not kill the elite before the reflect damage kills me. Or I get a silly roll and they drop in seconds.

I'm not even sure what path you can take. Before the patch you could die and it was something like 1-2k gold to repair. And the elites would take 30 seconds to 45 seconds to heal. Now they heal in like 10 and repair is 5k. If you cannot handle the elites in act1 inferno...I guess people go to act4 hell.

There are much worse combos of elites in act 1. Like fast fire chain teleport walling.

 

[ZealousD]

I'm not even sure what path you can take. Before the patch you could die and it was something like 1-2k gold to repair. And the elites would take 30 seconds to 45 seconds to heal. Now they heal in like 10 and repair is 5k. If you cannot handle the elites in act1 inferno...I guess people go to act4 hell.

I'm just past the Spider boss. Most elite packs are not a problem but every once in awhile I just get a bad roll and I'm toast and the pack feels unbeatable. Healing means I can no longer brute force zerg either.

 

[Trickster]

Has anybody worked out whether Act 4 Hell or walking into Whimsydale with a full NV stack is more efficient?

It feels like I get more gold in Whimsydale but it may be my imagination.




Yeah I'm also a DH. I just bought a 2H bow with 450 LOH, so hopefully that improve things with Reflect Damage in particular. But I still can't deal with Fast.

Drop Smoke Screen and get Vault instead. I know that might sound like blasphemy, but from my experience, Smoke Screen is way to discipline intensive to use for killing champions/rares unless you have the dps it takes to burst them down before you run out of discipline.

 

[teh_pwn]

I'm just past the Spider boss. Most elite packs are not a problem but every once in awhile I just get a bad roll and I'm toast and the pack feels unbeatable. Healing means I can no longer brute force zerg either.

Oh, then you're fine. I thought you were just doing level 1 cathedral.

I think the difficulty goes up a slight bit for the butcher run. Those huge guys with 2 handed mauls that do lots of physical damage...when they're fast fire linked jailer and shielding, they still get me sometimes when otherwise act 1 is a cake walk.

 

[ZealousD]

Drop Smoke Screen and get Vault instead.

I use both. And caltrops.

Devouring Arrow, Nether Tentacles, and Bat Companion are other three.

 

[aznpxdd]

Bleh, Elite mobs in Inferno Act I are a cake walk.

Its incredibly frustrating when I can kill a pack of elite mobs 10-15 seconds no sweat, but once I get to mid Act II, I get my ass handed to me by Elite mobs.

 

[Trickster]

I use both. And caltrops.

Devouring Arrow, Nether Tentacles, and Bat Companion are other three.

Drop Smoke Screen, get Preparation with the battle scars rune for the extra healing pot + discipline refill

Drop Nether Tentacles and Replace with the Ball Lightning rune instead, it acts like Nether Tentacles did before the nerf.

Bleh, Elite mobs in Inferno Act I are a cake walk.

Its incredibly frustrating when I can kill a pack of elite mobs 10-15 seconds no sweat, but once I get to mid Act II, I get my ass handed to me by Elite mobs.

Invis snakes?

 

[cpp_is_king]

Not to get meta linguistic here, but you're wrong. Terms like this mean what people intend them to mean. Look up the concept of "term of art". Communities define what terms like these mean, and appeals to dictionary definitions aren't helpful, unless you want to be pedantic and ignore context, which frankly you kind of are.

The term in this game, which has already been established and defined by the community, is "itemization". Even in games like WoW, RNG means "the chance for a dropped item to be something good". Well sorry, but the "chance for a dropped item to be something good" is not "affected by the AH".

But yea, I agree it's a little silly to keep arguing, because a) I agree with his original point, which is that itemization sucks, and b) I'm having more fun playing the game than arguing.

 

[sleepykyo]

492 DPS weapon killing Inferno Butcher? That sounds ridiculously hard, I couldn't imagine doing that.

Definitely possible for melee classes thanks to that area near the doorway that is safe from enrage. If only I could find a safe spot for enrage Belial.

ps. Eff enrage Belial. Went from 650dps wep and the snakes are meaningless, 850 wep, 850 dual wielding and even the snakes are dangerous for about half an hour.

Which lead to coming so close. Which lead to about a hour or almost but not quite and lots of cursing. Should have spend that time farming instead.

Also eff elite spiderlings with fire chains.

 

[aznpxdd]

Drop Smoke Screen, get Preparation with the battle scars rune for the extra healing pot + discipline refill

Drop Nether Tentacles and Replace with the Ball Lightning rune instead, it acts like Nether Tentacles did before the nerf.




Invis snakes?

Nah, I clean up any regular mobs easily. Its the elite mobs starting from mid Act II that's just ridiculous (not the invis snakes, they are easy for my Monk). The difficulty spike is just..none sense.

 

[MrPing1000]

I wonder how much a

100vit, socketed , 10 max disc hand xbow with a DPS of at least 950 would cost.

Because I need one.

 

[Radec]

Invis snakes?

The monsters in the sewers are much more frustriating than those snakes though.

 

[Neki]

If you can't farm Act 2 or Act 3 efficiently, then farm Act 1, because the loot is just as good. Why struggle in Act 2 or Act 3 when you just get more loot in an efficient manner in Act 1?