Support NeoGAF

[fizzelopeguss]

That's ... not actually the problem. The problem is that the players don't want to be swapping for MF gear.

Says who? i quite like loading the loot roulette in my favour with a janky MF suit.

 

[Fenderputty]

MF cap sounds so stupid. Why did I bother then to build a gear with 315+ MF that I don't have to swap in the first place. Makes me feel I'm playing the game wrong just because I'm not "smart enough" to use a script. Heck, most of those options make me feel that way.

Meh, whatever, the only thing that bothers me about MF is that they average it out. Why do I have to be penalized if a friend with 0 MF joins my game (which happens all the time) if we already have separate drops anyway.

That's why I think 4 is my favorite. Kills the gear script swappers while rewarding people who've geared with MF in mind.

I actually need to improve my MF gear. It's completly capable or raping act I, but not act II.

 

[Anustart]

Says who? i quite like loading the loot roulette in my favour with a janky MF suit.

This. I've never understood why people dont like the option of mf. Its a loot game, youre looking for stuff, why not like mf?

 

[theta11]

This was on the D3 forums. Kinda found the idea interesting and more of a solution than what we've been presented.

People like Magic Find, and a lot of people feel that the flavor of Charms from D2 is missing. Many people also feel like the crating artisans are lackluster and boring, and don't see much use.

Why not kill three birds with one stone by allowing us to salvage our magic find gear and craft it into a sort of lucky charm. Allow us to disenchant 6 - 8 pieces of gear all at once, and the magic find from those pieces of gear then turns into a charm with 50% - 100% of the magic find that we keep in our inventory. The charm could be small, taking up only 1 or 2 slots of space. You could also allow the salvaging of such gear to create the token transfer over a small amount of primary stat + vitality + resistances, like 5-10%, so finding high stat MF gear is still valuable.

This process creates a soft cap by limiting the amount of pieces you can disenchant, and still provides a reason to search for high stat, good quality MF gear, involves the crafting artisans and satisfies the demands of both those who wanted charms in the game and those who want to have MF but not have to switch gear constantly.

The charm would basically give you your max MF at all times without the hassle of switching, but an incentive to keep improving the quality of your charm in the end-game.

What is going on over at Blizzard these days? I thought of this in 3 minutes. It's as if the current Blizzard team is completely incapable of thinking outside of the box, unlike the previous Blizzard North team that made Diablo 2 and all of its wonderful features that kept players satisfied for over 10 years.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

MF cap sounds so stupid. Why did I bother then to build a gear with 315+ MF that I don't have to swap in the first place. Makes me feel I'm playing the game wrong just because I'm not "smart enough" to use a script. Heck, most of those options make me feel that way.

Meh, whatever, the only thing that bothers me about MF is that they average it out. Why do I have to be penalized if a friend with 0 MF joins my game (which happens all the time) if we already have separate drops anyway. That actually makes me want to play the game alone more and more.

I think they do that to prevent a friend from coming in and nuking something with non0MF gear and having you still get awesome rewards with MF gear.

 

[scy]

Says who? i quite like loading the loot roulette in my favour with a janky MF suit.

While players getting more Magic Find for their kills isn't a game breaker for us, many players have said they don't enjoy doing it but feel the benefit is too large to ignore.

Just repeating what they're saying in regards to swapping for MF%.

This. I've never understood why people dont like the option of mf. Its a loot game, youre looking for stuff, why not like mf?

This isn't about removing MF%, it's about removing the need to swap. Which isn't necessarily being addressed with their proposed changes, just addressing the actual swap itself.

 

[rCIZZLE]

I think they do that to prevent a friend from coming in and nuking something with non0MF gear and having you still get awesome rewards with MF gear.

It would be the same as it is now assuming the total MF of the party was the same.

Player A has 0%
Player B has 100%
50% per player (now) or 100% for one (if group MF was eliminated)

Total drop outcome is the same.

 

[Krauser Kat]

i liked this

My idea is to only allow gear switching in town but to give MF thresholds just like NV. What I mean by that is, NV stacks up to 75 (I think? correct me if I am wrong), right? Well, at 100 you could get another guaranteed drop. It could be white, blue, yellow, whatever. At 150 you get another, 200 another so on and so forth. That way people can have tangible goals to build around when creating sets rather than stacking MF arbitrarily and hoping for the best. MF will provide its old role as well as this new one.

Bringing back charms would be cool too, but i would like to have a designated charm spot, and only be able to equip charms you create yourself. So you either charm for ATK or MF or LOH

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

This was on the D3 forums. Kinda found the idea interesting and more of a solution than what we've been presented.

While it's an interesting idea I really think something like that is outside the scope of what they'd be willing to do. They're looking for a simple fix, not to create a whole new equipment system.

 

[scy]

This was on the D3 forums. Kinda found the idea interesting and more of a solution than what we've been presented.

Well, if we're going for full-blown overhauls, something like this would probably be ideal. Maybe. It depends on the ratios, really. It'd be interesting, though.

I just hope it would be limited to a single slot charm that you're constantly improving, though I'd imagine the logistics of this long term would be insane without caps. Though, maybe just irrelevant at that point (and just disallow it for PvP / certain affixes from being used in the first place).

 

[tn2007]

That's why I think 4 is my favorite. Kills the gear script swappers while rewarding people who've geared with MF in mind.

I actually need to improve my MF gear. It's completly capable or raping act I, but not act II.

Option 5 would be the best than. Why let anyone benefit from gear swapping? If your gonna nerf something do it all the way!!

 

[theta11]

While it's an interesting idea I really think something like that is outside the scope of what they'd be willing to do. They're looking for a simple fix, not to create a whole new equipment system.

I don't particularly want this done though it would be interesting, I just saying it's more of a solution to the problem than what they are suggesting.

 

[RivalCore]

Meh, whatever, the only thing that bothers me about MF is that they average it out. Why do I have to be penalized if a friend with 0 MF joins my game (which happens all the time) if we already have separate drops anyway. That actually makes me want to play the game alone more and more.

Pretty much. If they increased the amount of NV stacks while in a party (1 extra stack per person in the party or something) and stopped the averaging of MF, I'd get back into running with extra people.

 

[Cipherr]

Option four, please. It has taken awhile to hit a balance with a nice MF set but still being able to kill effectively.

Yep, this is clearly the way it should have been, people forming sets that balance the stats they need, alongside Magic Find and other addon stats.

Not getting a pack down to 2% then running offscreen and running some fucking script or mass clicking items in their inventorys to swap equipment.

Option 4 is the best. Want good resists? Build a set of gear with good stats and Resist All, want good gold/health globe radius? Build a set of gear with with good stats and Pickup Range, Want good Magic Find? Build a set with with good stats and Magic Find....

This isn't some foreign concept, and I have zero sympathy for the people acting 'shocked' that something is being done about the stupid way it functions in game right now. #4 is the best, but honestly any of them will do, just so long as they dont leave it the way it is. Slowly but surely they are getting around to fixing some of the dumb stuff in this game.

Meh, whatever, the only thing that bothers me about MF is that they average it out. Why do I have to be penalized if a friend with 0 MF joins my game (which happens all the time) if we already have separate drops anyway.

Hopefully thats the next dumb game mechanic to be killed off. Its really terrible.

 

[theta11]

Well, if we're going for full-blown overhauls, something like this would probably be ideal. Maybe. It depends on the ratios, really. It'd be interesting, though.

I just hope it would be limited to a single slot charm that you're constantly improving, though I'd imagine the logistics of this long term would be insane without caps. Though, maybe just irrelevant at that point (and just disallow it for PvP / certain affixes from being used in the first place).

I think something like this could be developed with alot more depth and could give people some customization but it would be very easy for it to be more or less a glorified gem.

 

[HenryHSH]

Why not just make it so you can attach MF items to your main equipment?

Either allow two pieces to be equipped in each slot or have the Blacksmith do his magic and add a MF property to your DPS cap by sacrificing your MF one. Add a nice fee to it (more sinks), or make the MF property require renewal every so often.

There are a million decent ideas, but the five that they came up with are just shit.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I don't particularly want this done though it would be interesting, I just saying it's more of a solution to the problem than what they are suggesting.

Yeah I know, it sounds cool and I wasn't trying to shit on the idea. Just saying that if thats the kind of solution people are expecting then they are going to be disappointed. Realistically we're looking at a band aid type fix here.

 

[Cipherr]

Yeah I know, it sounds cool and I wasn't trying to shit on the idea. Just saying that if thats the kind of solution people are expecting then they are going to be disappointed. Realistically we're looking at a band aid type fix here.

Yep, they arent looking to add some new profession, or rehaul the way items are equipped, or add a new equipment slot, or reconfigure the Blacksmith or make some sort of frankenstein system about combining gear pieces. Its just a way to address folks not actually building legit magic find gear sets, and instead resorting to scripting last second gear swaps.

Whatever solution they go with is not going to include some massive rewrite or redesign of any of the game mechanics.

 

[Danj]

Got myself a 627.2 dps 1h weapon with +234 int and reduced level requirement, now my total dps is 9842.41 and I'm cutting through elite and champ packs like a hot knife through butter Still on Act 2 hell but at this rate hopefully it shouldn't be long before I get to act 3.

 

[tn2007]

Yep, this is clearly the way it should have been. People forming sets that balance the stats they need, alongside Magic Find and other addon stats.

Not getting a pack down to 2% then running offscreen and running some fucking script or mass clicking items in their inventorys to swap equipment.

Option 4 is the best. Want good resists? Build a set of gear with good stats and Resist All, want good gold/health globe radius? Build a set of gear with with good stats and Pickup Range, Want good Magic Find? Build a set with with good stats and Magic Find....

This isn't come foreign concept, and I have zero sympathy for the people acting 'shocked' that something is being done about the stupid way it functions in game right now. #4 is the best, but honestly any of them will do, just so long as they dont leave it the way it is. Slowly but surely they are getting around to fixing some of the dumb stuff in this game.



Hopefully thats the next dumb game mechanic to be killed off. Its really terrible.

How is option 4 the best? People still can just switch to a magic find set and wait 3 minutes to kill the last elite. Option 5 is clearly the best. It makes you have to choose a set gear or you lose your valor.

 

[Impeccable]

How is option 4 the best? People still can just switch to a magic find set and wait 3 minutes to kill the last elite.

Three minutes per pack, over the long haul you're losing a lot of time.

 

[Anustart]

This isn't about removing MF%, it's about removing the need to swap. Which isn't necessarily being addressed with their proposed changes, just addressing the actual swap itself.

Should have clarified. Current discussion isn't about it no, but in these ot's theres tons of people totally against mf and want it gone. Thats where my comment came in.

 

[TheDancingWatermelon]

I think one of the biggest problems with the options is they don't go into enough detail on anything but the actual swapping. They briefly mention they will address giving more of a magic find bonus in some way but thats it. For a developer blog they really should have laid all of the cards on the table instead of just talking about the actual gear swapping changes.

 

[tn2007]

Three minutes per pack, over the long haul you're losing a lot of time.

But it doesn't solve the problem. It's just a band aid fix. Only solutions to fix the actually problem is either gear swapping key, get rid of magic find on items or deterring players from switching via removing their valor. How many players are gonna gear swap after option 5? Zero! That to me is a fix. Reward players that worked hard on their magic find set.

 

[scy]

Should have clarified. Current discussion isn't about it no, but in these ot's theres tons of people totally against mf and want it gone. Thats where my comment came in.

I'd like to think it's more about how MF% is implemented rather than MF% itself. Maybe, anyway. I know that's more my stance on it.

 

[theta11]

Should have clarified. Current discussion isn't about it no, but in these ot's theres tons of people totally against mf and want it gone. Thats where my comment came in.

My main problem with MF on gear not MF the stat. They had a huge opportunity to have a better fleshed out MF system that they had more control over through NV but they went ahead and added it to gear leading to swapping problems they have now.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Yep, this is clearly the way it should have been, people forming sets that balance the stats they need, alongside Magic Find and other addon stats.

Not getting a pack down to 2% then running offscreen and running some fucking script or mass clicking items in their inventorys to swap equipment.

Option 4 is the best. Want good resists? Build a set of gear with good stats and Resist All, want good gold/health globe radius? Build a set of gear with with good stats and Pickup Range, Want good Magic Find? Build a set with with good stats and Magic Find....

This isn't some foreign concept, and I have zero sympathy for the people acting 'shocked' that something is being done about the stupid way it functions in game right now. #4 is the best, but honestly any of them will do, just so long as they dont leave it the way it is. Slowly but surely they are getting around to fixing some of the dumb stuff in this game.



Hopefully thats the next dumb game mechanic to be killed off. Its really terrible.

Then you're back square one in the diablo 2 days where Ranged kite classes will have the MF advantage.

 

[zaxon]

This was on the D3 forums. Kinda found the idea interesting and more of a solution than what we've been presented.

Silly idea. If I get a really amazing upgrade that also happens to have MF on it, I don't want to feel like I have to sacrifice that item in order to have the best possible MF charm. Besides, why even put a stat on gear if its only purpose is to be melted down into a charm?

 

[toastyToast]

Reward players that worked hard on their magic find set.

What about people farming with no MF? Losing a stack because you felt like to switch to your shield is BS.

NV already locks skills. I mean, come on.

 

[Cipherr]

How is option 4 the best? People still can just switch to a magic find set and wait 3 minutes to kill the last elite. Option 5 is clearly the best. It makes you have to choose a set gear or you lose your valor.

When was the last time you did a farming run, or killed ANY elite in Inferno?

Go ahead and wait 3 minutes each time, it will cripple your time spent and lower your effectiveness overall considering the way NV works with rares. You would lose more than you gained. And your elite champ would always heal back to full btw, forcing you to kill an entire full health champ in your budget crappy statted MF% set which would take forever in a day to do with your massive dps and defensive stat losses.

Or you could build a legitimate set, never have to swap, and not become a defenseless, "omg I hope it doesnt 3 shot me", low dps wet noodle trying to kill a champ every pack you encounter.

#4 would absolutely murder gear swapping, if you think it wont its just because you aren't thinking it through. 3 minutes would be sufficient.

But it doesn't solve the problem.

Except it does solve the problem. The problem is people swapping gear and gaining massive bonuses over the people that do not. This change very specifically NULLIFIES that. You lose that effectiveness due to the increased amount of time spent, it becomes clunky and you have to kill a champ thats FULL HP which will take forever and will risk deaths unless you build a legitimate MF set with great stats. You dont seem to understand this.

Then you're back square one in the diablo 2 days where Ranged kite classes will have the MF advantage.

No, I have had champs heal to full just because I kited them a bit too far. The full heal and the 3 minute timer means NOONE gets a hall pass out of this, not even ranged. If you mean glass cannons not statting defensive skills in exchange for MF%, then thats no different than what they can do right now. And they pay the price in much higher average repair bills, and a truckload more deaths every time the wind blows.

 

[DTKT]

This was on the D3 forums. Kinda found the idea interesting and more of a solution than what we've been presented.

Yes please.

 

[MutFox]

Any patch notes?

Thanks

 

[lol51]

What about people farming with no MF? Losing a stack because you felt like to switch to your shield is BS.

NV already locks skills. I mean, come on.

Should qualify the NV stack reduction to 'if gear has MF%'. That way people can still switch weapons freely (most weapons) and can avoid this mechanic completely if they avoid MF stat.

 

[Fenderputty]

But it doesn't solve the problem. It's just a band aid fix. Only solutions to fix the actually problem is either gear swapping key, get rid of magic find on items or deterring players from switching via removing their valor. How many players are gonna gear swap after option 5? Zero! That to me is a fix. Reward players that worked hard on their magic find set.

That kills the player who caries around a sheild and different weapon if they choose to be more DPS or more tank-like.

I guess compromise is something both parties won't like though.

What about people farming with no MF? Losing a stack because you felt like to switch to your shield is BS.

NV already locks skills. I mean, come on.

I will say that if I were to choose between the two, I would rather lose NV stacks when switching gear than skills.

 

[theta11]

Silly idea. If I get a really amazing upgrade that also happens to have MF on it, I don't want to feel like I have to sacrifice that item in order to have the best possible MF charm. Besides, why even put a stat on gear if its only purpose is to be melted down into a charm?

Obviously the concept isn't fully developed. =/ Anyways I don't see what you are getting it, If the gear has more than MF you make a choice which is more valuable to you. =/

 

[tn2007]

When was the last time you did a farming run, or killed ANY elite in Inferno?

Go ahead and wait 3 minutes each time, it will cripple your time spent and lower your effectiveness overall considering the way NV works with rares. You would lose more than you gained. And your elite champ would always heal back to full btw, forcing you to kill and entire full health champ in your budget crappy statted MF% set which would take forever in a day to do with your massive dps and defensive stat losses.

Or you could build a legitimate set, never have to swap, and not become a defenseless, "omg I hop it doesnt 3 shot me", low dps wet noodle trying to kill a champ every pack you encounter.

#4 would absolutely murder gear swapping, if you think it wont its just because you aren't thinking it through. 3 minutes would be sufficient.



Except it does solve the problem. The problem is people swapping gear and gaining massive bonuses over the people that do not. This change very specifically NULLIFIES that. You lose that effectiveness due to the increased amount of time spent, it becomes clunky and you have to kill a champ thats FULL HP which will take forever and will risk deaths unless you build a legitimate MF set with great stats. You dont seem to understand this.




No, I have had champs heal to full just because I kited them a bit too far. The full heal and the 3 minute timer means NOONE gets a hall pass out of this, not even ranged.

I farm every day. I have 2 million EHP and 45k dps. I have a magic find set that can kill one elite with full health easy. 3 minutes whoopy doo doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[theta11]

Should qualify the NV stack reduction to 'if gear has MF%'. That way people can still switch weapons freely (most weapons) and can avoid this mechanic completely if they avoid MF stat.

I kinda addressed this earlier because off-hands have MF. And people switch off-hands. I personally do it frequently.

I farm every day. I have 2 million EHP and 45k dps. I have a magic find set that can kill one elite with full health easy. 3 minutes whoopy doo doesn't bother me one bit.

It adds up. For 10 elite packs that's 30 extra minutes of playing. =/

 

[cpp_is_king]

How is option 4 the best? People still can just switch to a magic find set and wait 3 minutes to kill the last elite. Option 5 is clearly the best. It makes you have to choose a set gear or you lose your valor.

Umm what? You seriously think it's more efficient to sit there with your thumb up your ass for 3 minutes EVERY time you encounter a champ? Last time i checked there are about 40 champs in each act. You're talking about wasting 2 hours. Thats more time than it takes to actually clear the whole act if youre moving quickly

 

[tn2007]

Umm what? You seriously think it's more efficient to sit there with your thumb up your ass for 3 minutes EVERY time you encounter a champ? Last time i checked there are about 40 champs in each act. You're talking about wasting 2 hours. Thats more time than it takes to actually clear the whole act if youre moving quickly

Did I say it's more efficient? No I'm saying for some people it won't matter. I said earlier reward the people that built magic find sets. But if your gonna fix something FIX IT.

 

[cpp_is_king]

This. I've never understood why people dont like the option of mf. Its a loot game, youre looking for stuff, why not like mf?

We love MF. Just not on a separate suit

 

[scy]

Did I say it's more efficient? No I'm saying for some people it won't matter. I said earlier reward the people that built magic find sets. But if your gonna fix something FIX IT.

Honestly? They're not a part of this conversation. If someone is willing to wait out three minutes per elite pack then they clearly don't actually understand what they're doing.

 

[Cipherr]

I farm every day. I have 2 million EHP and 45k dps. I have a magic find set that can kill one elite with full health easy. 3 minutes whoopy doo doesn't bother me one bit.

This reply means nothing, regardless of your stats, this option removes the benefit of swapping gear. You could continue to do it, but it would be less efficient than me in my 150% MF set that actually maintains Inferno level resists with good dps. You stop every champ pack, theres like 15 or more per act and each time, you are going to stop and wait 3 minutes while Ill just plow through.

And at every 3 minute wait, your going to put on your poorly itemized 30% MF 100 intellect throwaway blue item on your Barb and try to slowly wittle down a 100% HP (after they heal during those 3 minutes) Waller Molten Fast Arcane enchanted Phasebeast.....

Yeah, good luck keeping up with my # of rares per hour. #4 promotes people building proper sets of MF gear with balanced stats, instead of running to the AH and buying 11 blues with high MF with zero regard for the other stats on the item, then just hot swapping once their champ pack is at 2% HP. It actively kills that functioning and makes just killing the mobs as fast as possible more Rares per hour than trying to hack through them in a terribad MF set after a 3 minute wait per pack.

There are Acts with 20+ champs or so, trying to /shrug off a 1 hour addition of time to your run as if its insignificant is ridiculous. I could do two clears in the time it took you to do one with that added time.

Did I say it's more efficient? No I'm saying for some people it won't matter. I said earlier reward the people that built magic find sets. But if your gonna fix something FIX IT.

You have got to be kidding me..... Look, stupid people that are bad at math arent the problem. The hot swapping of gear is the problem. This would solve the problem....

 

[tn2007]

Honestly? They're not a part of this conversation. If someone is willing to wait out three minutes per elite pack then they clearly don't actually understand what they're doing.

My question is whats wrong with option 5? It makes you have to choose between running a magic find set or swap and lose your valor. Option 4 you can still get around even though it will take longer.

 

[equil]

Server is back up for me.

 

[theta11]

My question is whats wrong with option 5? It makes you have to choose between running a magic find set or swap and lose your valor. Option 4 you can still get around even though it will take longer.

Because MF isn't the only reason to swap gear.

 

[scosher]

I still would prefer to see them just restrict gear swapping altogether. I understand some people need the ability to swap to a different weapon set for certain encounters, but do people really swap their armor for any other purpose than to switch to MF gear?

- Allow armor swapping only in town.
- Allow weapon swapping any time, and even include a quick swap function like D2.

 

[scy]

My question is whats wrong with option 5? It makes you have to choose between running a magic find set or swap and lose your valor. Option 4 you can still get around even though it will take longer.

Legitimate gear swaps.

Whether or not you think people should swap gear for DPS -> Tank -> DPS reasons is another matter entirely :x

 

[Cipherr]

I still would prefer to see them just restrict gear swapping altogether. I understand some people need the ability to swap to a different weapon set for certain encounters, but do people really swap their armor for any other purpose than to switch to MF gear?

- Allow armor swapping only in town.
- Allow weapon swapping any time, and even include a quick swap function like D2.

People do swap gear. I do it for bosses when I dont need nearly as much defense as I do for a champ pack. I swap bows for Reflect damage. I swap to dps for bosses in MP games when the other Barb/Monk says he will handle the Tanking. Offtanks aren't really a thing in Diablo 3 boss fights.

Honestly I reckon they will be against any option that stops you from swapping gear. They have already tightened the vice on specs with NV, doing the same with gear also would probably be too much.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Did I say it's more efficient? No I'm saying for some people it won't matter. I said earlier reward the people that built magic find sets. But if your gonna fix something FIX IT.

The change isnt intended to make people not be stupid. Option 4 already rewards people who built magic find sets, as long as its also a killing set.

The entire point is to make it where swapping is not the most efficient way of increasing your drops. Option 4 does exactly that, and if someone is too stupid to realize that sitting there for 3 minutes waiting to kill something with 300 mf is less efficient than just going on to the next champ, i dont think blizzard or anyone else really cares

 

[Fenderputty]

I still would prefer to see them just restrict gear swapping altogether. I understand some people need the ability to swap to a different weapon set for certain encounters, but do people really swap their armor for any other purpose than to switch to MF gear?

- Allow armor swapping only in town.
- Allow weapon swapping any time, and even include a quick swap function like D2.

Going from dual wield to a 1-hand with a shield would be an instance that doesn't involve MF.