How doesn't option 5 not solve the problem? That's all I'm saying. No where did I mention it's more efficient to wait 3 minutes. I personally would just run through the act with my gear as is and not worry about magic find set. I'm just arguing the option 5 with COMEPLETELY deter people away from switching.
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Diablo III |OT4| Antiques Roadshow: Sanctuary Edition
- Thread starter CarbonatedFalcon
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How doesn't option 5 not solve the problem? That's all I'm saying. No where did I mention it's more efficient to wait 3 minutes. I personally would just run through the act with my gear as is and not worry about magic find set. I'm just arguing the option 5 with COMEPLETELY deter people away from switching.
Yeah, but my suggestion would allow gear swapping in town only. Removing NV stacks when gear swapping would prevent it at any time. If you need a different gear set for bosses, it's not hard to TP back and grab/equip a different set from your stash.
The issue is about gear swapping mid-combat, to gain the best benefit of MF at the end of a boss/elite kill. Restricting gear swaps to town only solves that.
Well by "weapon swaps," I'm including your OH as well, just as it was in D2 which allowed a weapon swap.
And we're saying that #4 does exactly that, but does NOT include a penalty for regular game play.
cpp_is_king
Member
option 4 already COMPLETELY deters people (as long as those people have brains) and doesnt have the severe penalty that option 5 has for other legitimate gear swaps
That's fine but my problem is that inferno is suppose to be a gear check right? Than why let anyone switch gears to find certain bosses or enemies without a penalty? They did it for skills. Why not equipment too. Of course the people here complaining wanting option 4 are people that built magic sets to use all the time. And I'm fine with that. So why not pick option 5? Since you already have a magic find set and your not gonna switch anyways.
Because it adds nothing but an extra penalty.
cpp_is_king
Member
How are we still having this discussion? Option 4 HAS A PENALTY. The fact that you grossly underestimate the severity of the penalty is a problem of your understanding, not a problem with the penalty itself
...what?
Haha nice one. I'm glad I pissed you off.
Trickster
Member
If you love penalties so much, play hardcore. It's got the ultimate penalty you can probably get in a game.
Every option is a penalty. I'm just advocating option 5 to piss everyone off lol.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Any solution they pick will be imbalanced and unfair. When you've got classes/builds that need 4 or 5 stats on a piece of gear and classes that are just fine with 3 something like magic find shouldn't be taking up a slot.
The helmet I wear doesn't even exist with magic find, at least not as far as I can tell by searching both auction houses on a daily basis. It isn't a legendary or anything like that, just a combination of stats that I have never seen alongside magic find.
If I can't swap to MF gear you're telling me that some builds are going to get shafted while others are just fine.
The helmet I wear doesn't even exist with magic find, at least not as far as I can tell by searching both auction houses on a daily basis. It isn't a legendary or anything like that, just a combination of stats that I have never seen alongside magic find.
If I can't swap to MF gear you're telling me that some builds are going to get shafted while others are just fine.
Trickster
Member
So you're bassically admiting to trolling?
cpp_is_king
Member
I took that more to mean "wow what are you even talking about, im out"
TheDancingWatermelon
Member
Wait so the last half page of discussion has just been a troll? What?
I'm interested in their proposed adjustments to make MF more viable on equipment in general. That part is what really allows us to judge the fixes.
Na I was just trolling option 4 lovers. None of the things blizzard do at this point annoys me like some people here. I already made $200, my barb is set, and I'm done with everything till an expansion comes out. Only things left for me is to try new classes and play hardcore.
Yep.
The only troll is blizzard. What ever they do it's gonna piss some people off and make some people happy. So what do I care.
wow, i'm disappointed in the MF swapping. I thought they were going to offer us a solution to make it easier. Should have known they want to nerf it since that's what blizzard has a hardon for the last 6 years. So fucking stupid. All those "solutions" are ass too. Who asked for this? Thought we wanted an easier way to swap not a punishment.
Why does blizzard think this is a good idea in a loot game?
Why does blizzard think this is a good idea in a loot game?
I sometimes wonder if their decision to limit certain stats to certain item slots was a mistake or not. For example your helm. If it for example has Crit as one of its stats, it makes it hard to make up for the loss of that affix on other items because it cannot appear on legs (as an example) outside of legendaries.
I dont know though, maybe they should raise the amount of affixes that a single item can have above 6/7 and simply keep the budgets for the stats the same.
Then, while you might not be able to keep the same stats on a helm and add MF, you might be able to sacrifice the amount of those stats for a little added MF.
Which would basically be..... them building the third party MF Autokey Swap functionality into the game? I honestly have no idea why anyone thought they were going to do that..... I really dont. I thought they made it pretty clear that the entire 'swapping pieces before something dies' was something they didnt like. And even if they didnt, the change to chests and MF to combat it sent a pretty clear message.
I consider assuming people carry around 13 items in their inventory purely for MF swap purposes to be much worse game design overall.
Because blizzard wants you to spend more time in the auction house.
That's basically what I'm assuming.
It'd be nice to have them more open but I wager it'd just mean you'd have more slots that you'd need them on because of how good they are :/
There's really no stat budget though. Just random rolls on affixes.
Truthfully they only did it with stats that could easily become too powerful. (Alot of stats XD) If they increased the amount of items specific things can roll on they would have to reduce the budgets to keep their target intact.
yeah you and I use identical skill setups except i run blur instead of glass cannon (mostly cause my gear isn't up to part yet)
I assume the majority of your gear is crit chance, crit dmg and all res or int and all res for the most part
I'm curious to see your wep / source stats
Is this true or confirmed anywhere? It sure seems like while weapons can, for example roll 300 in a stat, or +900 LOH, or max Lifesteal, +50% damage, or a socket or 90+% crit damage, that I rarely see any of those kind of super high rolls together on one item. Sort of always felt to me like they had a budget. You might be able to roll a socket near 1k LOH and 90% crit damage, but dont expect to also get 400 in stats plus a 1300 dps roll out of it at the same time.
Would still promote swapping instead of finding good equipment with MF%. And what about the people who've already built ~300%+ suits?
Fenderputty
Banned
They deserved it!
T.T My poor Wizard and Monk
Seriously though, I can't imagine them doing that again. Then again, I can't believe they did it once at all.
Well items have a range of magical properties they can roll and so it's impossible to have all those things as well as stats since some properties take 2 slots even though they show as 1.
cpp_is_king
Member
I think its because its possible to roll each affix up to twice, so when you see like 900 LoH it used 2 affixes, meaning you may not get that socket
well, a lot of talk they centered around saying swaping MF gear was not fun. which means they were going to make it easier to do. But like I said, guess I should have seen nerfs coming because that's all they do since wow BC era.
Gaming Truth
Member
Lemme get this straight:
There are two groups of people: MF people, and people jealous of MF people.
MF people love MF, but hate having to gear swap and think the idea is poorly thought out.
Non-MF people hate MF and think that the existence of MF people means they're not playing the game the right way.
Blizzard comes in and ponders about it like they did with Attack SPD. They can:
- slow it down (that delay thing)
- penalize it (stack removal)
- nerf it (cascading values)
Why don't they just do this: Leave it alone or help it along? They friggin put MF in there so people would covet it (like Arcane Resistance or + to range on health orbs). So instead of breaking yet another mechanic in the game they just launched about a month ago, why not help people who want to swap gear do so? Like WoW, have a equip that players can define and some hotkey that lets them swap out (so they can stop using external programs).
MF helps increase drop percentages from 1% to like, 4%(?) at 300% MF. People are sacrificing important game-mechanic stats to do so. Let them. If you hate external scripts, then code in something to aid this type of gameplay.
I read the ToS, but it's still BS. Like Attack SPD, if they nerf MF, then what about the people who paid (gold or RM) trying to play the game as it was "designed"? Gold and RM (especially RM) is not trivial to mess with.
Edit: I quit D3 because of Inferno progression and the drop loot model. I also happen to be in the MF jealousy camp. Still, it's in there. Don't F with it
There are two groups of people: MF people, and people jealous of MF people.
MF people love MF, but hate having to gear swap and think the idea is poorly thought out.
Non-MF people hate MF and think that the existence of MF people means they're not playing the game the right way.
Blizzard comes in and ponders about it like they did with Attack SPD. They can:
- slow it down (that delay thing)
- penalize it (stack removal)
- nerf it (cascading values)
Why don't they just do this: Leave it alone or help it along? They friggin put MF in there so people would covet it (like Arcane Resistance or + to range on health orbs). So instead of breaking yet another mechanic in the game they just launched about a month ago, why not help people who want to swap gear do so? Like WoW, have a equip that players can define and some hotkey that lets them swap out (so they can stop using external programs).
MF helps increase drop percentages from 1% to like, 4%(?) at 300% MF. People are sacrificing important game-mechanic stats to do so. Let them. If you hate external scripts, then code in something to aid this type of gameplay.
I read the ToS, but it's still BS. Like Attack SPD, if they nerf MF, then what about the people who paid (gold or RM) trying to play the game as it was "designed"? Gold and RM (especially RM) is not trivial to mess with.
Edit: I quit D3 because of Inferno progression and the drop loot model. I also happen to be in the MF jealousy camp. Still, it's in there. Don't F with it
They specifically mention "Philosophically we don't have a problem with the practice." in the post about the MF changes, so it's more a player response than anything intended by Blizzard. I think the only people they're trying to make happy are the ones that feel cheated that other people can swap gear faster than they can to kill a champ in the last 5 seconds.
Re: nerfing chests, it was more a response to people going to areas without monsters and farming stuff that wasn't really interactive or playing the game.
Fenderputty
Banned
It went over surprisingly well too. I'm betting a smaller portion of the Diablo population is gearing with MF in mind than the amount of people who were trying to gear with IAS in mind. They're proposed 50% slash to IAS was more like 66% too.
I'm just not sure if they consider the MF issue to be as large as the IAS was to them.
Woo-Fu
Banned
I had 3.21 attacks per second when IAS got nerfed.
My MF suit is 361 MF.
double-whammy!
If they break MF swapping due to lazy moaners I think I'll probably lose interest. I'm a min-maxer by nature and if all I can expect as a reward for my effort is a massive nerf each time I finally feel I'm "there" I just won't see much point in playing.
My MF suit is 361 MF.
double-whammy!
If they break MF swapping due to lazy moaners I think I'll probably lose interest. I'm a min-maxer by nature and if all I can expect as a reward for my effort is a massive nerf each time I finally feel I'm "there" I just won't see much point in playing.
Yes I stack those and don't wear any legendaries. I've IAS on rings+ammy, but mostly just to complement other dps stats
Ahhhh!! I had heard a little about this, but didn't realize that this was the way it worked. That makes a lot of sense. Is 2 in 1 the cap for a single affix? Or can it roll 3 in 1 also? And does this also work the same in crafting?
I probably would have known this had I done more crafting. I reckon crafting 5 and 6 stat items I would have noticed I got a few with only 4 or 5 affixes but with insanely high rolls on some of them. Have never bothered crafting much though.
You don't see them together because to even roll a high dps weapon several rolls have to be near max and then you only have a few affix slots left and it's very unlikely for them to also go high.
No you can not roll same affix twice, but there are secondary affixes that may overlap with primary ones. I think that's mostly or solely for stats though. I'm not entirely sure about the following, but I believe an item can have only up to 3 primary and 3 secondary affixes, which rules out certain combinations. Magic find is a secondary on all gear except amulet.
A weapon gets 900+ LOH from a single affix
Because fostering swapping equipment isn't ideal? The goal is to get people to covet the stat as an actual stat rather than as a gear swap.
Also, +Health Orb range has some uses. Not that anyone does that Witch Doctor build.
This post explains the problem from Blizzard's POV:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6009371708#17
It's just +Attributes that have it and it's because there's a variety of affixes for them. For instance, +STR, +STR and VIT, and +STR, VIT, INT, and DEX are three separate affixes and you can roll all three on one item.
There are some prefixes/suffixes with shared effects that can both be rolled, I believe. I'd have to double check that, however.
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