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[El Topo]

You can discuss a lot of things, you can have all sorts of opinions, just don't be a dick about it. If you are a dick, we all are occasionally, think about it and learn from that.

 

[capitalCORN]

This shit right here man, let's address this, the idea that putting more minorities in historical settings is "shoehorning" is downright idiotic. CONSTANTLY, caucasians are literally shoehorned into settings where they don't belong, ON TOP of minorities being portrayed way less than they actually were in history, there's a term for it, it's called whitewashing, history in media is constantly whitewashed and it's time to stop as we have dudes who legitimately believe stupid shit like "there weren't many black cowboys."

The convolution that is 'The History of Western Civilization' is good laugh. By that entirely sad.

 

[WaffleTaco]

What thread was that in?

It was in the Hillary Duff & Boyfriend thread

 

[Beefy]

The most annoying one for me is the " It's a tradition" line. Some people don't get that some tradiitons aren't a good thing.

 

[Frozenprince]

I mean fuck there was literally a movie last year called "Aloha" set in the Islands and there wasn't one god damn islander in that whole movie. How is that not fucked up? That's not even historical accuracy that's just locational awareness.

 

[Slayven]

There's nothing worse in this industry than when games try to be "deep" and fail immensely at it.

It is perfectly alright to stay in one's lane

 

[Trigonometrize.]

I really hate it when someone chalks up any discussion to "outrage culture," as if 1. everyone or even anyone is outraged and 2. every positive social movement in the history of the world wasn't sparked by someone being upset with the current situation and the people on the wrong side of history working against them.

When I see a lot of this kind of thing I don't even bother with the ignore list because it can't be long until they're banned.

Although, there are a couple of these patterns that I roll my eyes at for the other side as well. I've been seeing a lot of "it's not our job to educate racists" as basically an excuse for coming into a discussion and offering a pretty flimsy argument but being to jaded with the threads to want to expound, even if they're in the right (which they usually are). I'm hoping we all try to understand each other a bit more so we don't reach these two different types of deaod ends as often.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

The moderate white populace is as much a threat to minorities as overt racism. I literally can't roll my eyes back far enough whenever I see someone trying to use the arguments outlined in the OP. Was thinking of a making a similar gaming focused OP on sexism and racism in the industry. The most overt recent examples on this forum is a pokemon thread and the thread about Hillary Duff's god awful halloween costume choice.

What happened with Pokemon? Are people still hung up on Jinx getting Mr Popo'd?

 

[capitalCORN]

I mean fuck there was literally a movie last year called "Aloha" set in the Islands and there wasn't one god damn islander in that whole movie. How is that not fucked up?

They had Emma Stone play a half Chinese character,,,

 

[Nepenthe]

You forgot people pulling out the name of a certain civil rights leader to try and browbeat minorities into acting in a passive way that makes them comfortable regardless of the context of the situation that upset minorities in the first place, as well as the fact that said civil rights leader wouldn't like their apathetic asses anymore than we do.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Thank you for making this thread. I've been seeing a lot of that diet racism lately as well, and it's really pissing me off. Outrage culture this, my black friend that, I'm not racist but...All that. I hate it, it pisses me off more than straight up racists, at least they are honest with their disgusting asses.

Edit: Oh and what Nepenthe said, I agree with. Using MLK is fucking crazy as well as out context considering what quotes they use. Also they miss the other quotes (they do it on purpose anyways.)

 

[Silver Arrows]

You forgot people pulling out the name of a certain civil rights leader to try and browbeat minorities into acting in a passive way that makes them comfortable regardless of the context of the situation that upset minorities in the first place, as well as the fact that said civil rights leader wouldn't like their apathetic asses anymore than we do.

This shit is probably the most infuriating of them all tbh. Might as well play MLK as a Yu-Gi-Oh card.

 

[Big_Al]

That blackface thread was truly enlightening, I honestly never realised it was such a thing in some european countries.

 

[capitalCORN]

You forgot people pulling out the name of a certain civil rights leader to try and browbeat minorities into acting in a passive way that makes them comfortable regardless of the context of the situation that upset minorities in the first place, as well as the fact that said civil rights leader wouldn't like their apathetic asses anymore than we do.

You know, when you're chilling. Met some new people, had a few laughs, and suddenly someone nonchalantly states: "Yeah, you're one of the cool ones." Fuck....

 

[Crossing Eden]

What happened with Pokemon? Are people still hung up on Jinx getting Mr Popo'd?

Pokemon thread.

 

[Nepenthe]

What happened with Pokemon? Are people still hung up on Jinx getting Mr Popo'd?

Someone asked if it'd be better for Game Freak to add a gender-neutral option to trainer customization or something like Pokemon GO's system, and half of Gaming Side lost its collective mind in a hail of bad science, middle fingers, the invisible hand, and "think of the children!"

 

[Somnid]

Nothing wrong with being ignorant of issues that don't get much publication. But it is another to be ignorant and righteous.

"Augs lives Matter"

I agree it can be a grating personality type but still at least my strategy here is to be as educational as possible. People tend no to admit they are wrong but I do believe as long as you are setup to find the error in your ways with resources and evidence that you can quietly come to it and save face. Also, everyone here also has to understand that they will be that person at some point. Maybe today, maybe tomorrow, but it happens and the quicker you can catch yourself the better.

 

[Dio]

What happened with Pokemon? Are people still hung up on Jinx getting Mr Popo'd?

The stupidest part about that one is that basically no one cared for or used Jynx before and now that it was changed suddenly people care a whole lot. If it was a popular Pokemon I could understand it a little better but it's basically a reflexive reaction to 'PC CULTURE CENSORING GAMES' that's even more overt.

 

[Giant Panda]

This shit right here man, let's address this, the idea that putting more minorities in historical settings is "shoehorning" is downright idiotic. CONSTANTLY, caucasians are literally shoehorned into settings where they don't belong, ON TOP of minorities being portrayed way less than they actually were in history, there's a term for it, it's called whitewashing, history in media is constantly whitewashed and it's time to stop as we have dudes who legitimately believe stupid shit like "there weren't many black cowboys." The more we normalize minorities in history settings the better off things will be in the future.

The OP is literally using the example of black samurai and medieval knights. I'm sure there were a few, but there's nothing wrong with claiming historical accuracy if your historically based movie, show, book, etc. doesn't have black knights or samurai. You seem to acknowledge that whites get shoehorned into areas that often don't make sense, so it should be easy to see that it possible to do that with minorities too. That is currently not a problem, but the OP seemed to be hinting that they wanted to make that a problem.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Yo what you mean there weren't armies of white people in ancient egypt?

No, no, see, it was an ALT-UNIVERSE EGYPT where only white people existed.

(Actual justification)

 

[Frozenprince]

The OP is literally using the example of black samurai and medieval knights. I'm sure there were a few, but there's nothing wrong with claiming historical accuracy if your historically based movie, show, book, etc. doesn't have black knights or samurai. You seem to acknowledge that whites get shoehorned into areas that often don't make sense, so it should be easy to see that it possible to do that with minorities too. That is currently not a problem, but the OP seemed to be hinting that they wanted to make that a problem.

I'm sorry "shoehorn" is not a good answer. Minority actors need roles too, limiting them from ever doing anything set before 1850 is fucked.

 

[Lime]

"Racism/sexism/homophobia is what sells the most, therefore it's okay"

 

[Vital Tundra]

I thought this was a topic singling out the people here who shit on anyone who drinks soda or eats fast food.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Someone asked if it'd be better for Game Freak to add a gender-neutral option to trainer customization or something like Pokemon GO's system, and half of Gaming Side lost its collective mind in a hail of bad science, middle fingers, the invisible hand, and "think of the children!"

Wait hold up hold up hold up. You don't mean that thread about getting rid of the gender option in the Pokemon games do you? Because if so, then I guess I was smart in avoiding it. I bet it got reeeeealll bad in there.

 

[Giant Panda]

http://static.rogerebert.com/uploads/movie/movie_poster/the-last-samurai-2003/large_cRz4FRx731ulws6zHuQVaDXpx73.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Ok. What is the point you're trying to make here? It feels like you're trying to say I'm wrong, but if you actually read what I wrote then this just reinforces my point.

 

[Silver Arrows]

No, no, see, it was an ALT-UNIVERSE EGYPT where only white people existed.

(Actual justification)

Like headcanons coming to life!

 

[Crossing Eden]

The OP is literally using the example of black samurai and medieval knights. I'm sure there were a few, but there's nothing wrong with claiming historical accuracy if your historically based movie, show, book, etc. doesn't have black knights or samurai. You seem to acknowledge that whites get shoehorned into areas that often don't make sense, so it should be easy to see that it possible to do that with minorities too. That is currently not a problem, but the OP seemed to be hinting that they wanted to make that a problem.

There's usually things that aren't historically accurate in anyway shape or form that a minority being in there absolutely shouldn't be an issue. Including in the majority of cases a white savior. Give more minorities roles in historical settings, period. They existed throughout history. Historical accuracy is never a valid argument in the vast majority of places especially with how often the same settings are used.

 

[Frozenprince]

Ok. What is the point you're trying to make here? It feels like you're trying to say I'm wrong, but if you actually read what I wrote then this just reinforces my point.

The point is that there is no justification based on historical accuracy to deny a minority a role in any film set in any period. We have a white guy playing the Last Samurai. We have British people playing aristocratic Russians. We have white people playing ancient Egyptians.

Being "shoehorned" in is not a valid counter argument or excuse to deny a minority actor a role.

 

[freenudemacusers]

The point is that there is no justification based on historical accuracy to deny a minority a role in any film set in any period. We have a white guy playing the Last Samurai. We have British people playing aristocratic Russians. We have white people playing ancient Egyptians.

Being "shoehorned" in is not a valid counter argument or excuse to deny a minority actor a role.

tom cruise is an american army captain in the movie.

a better example would be something like gods of Egypt that had zero narrative purpose for casting the game of thrones guy and russell crowe as Egyptian deities.

 

[Frozenprince]

There's usually things that aren't historically accurate in anyway shape or form that a minority being in there absolutely shouldn't be an issue.

It's not hard to come up with some bullshit justification to have black people with 10th-16th century europeans for example, either. "He's a moor" and we're done, explanation given, audience give a fuck remains at 0.

 

[Chichikov]

The OP is literally using the example of black samurai and medieval knights. I'm sure there were a few, but there's nothing wrong with claiming historical accuracy if your historically based movie, show, book, etc. doesn't have black knights or samurai. You seem to acknowledge that whites get shoehorned into areas that often don't make sense, so it should be easy to see that it possible to do that with minorities too. That is currently not a problem, but the OP seemed to be hinting that they wanted to make that a problem.

If casting British actors to play English speaking denizens of ancient Rome is not a problem when it comes to historical accuracy, why casting black actors is?

 

[Crossing Eden]

It's not hard to come up with some bullshit justification to have black people with 10th-16th century europeans for example, either. "He's a moor" and we're done, explanation given, audience give a fuck remains at 0.

But muh immersion!1!

 

[Frozenprince]

If casting British actors to play English speaking denizens of ancient Rome is not a problem when it comes to historical accuracy, why casting black actors is?

Not one Russian or word of Russian spoken in this whole movie.

 

[Anarky]

One of the worst is when someone says a PoC in any type of medium is "Pandering".

 

[pa22word]

The point is that there is no justification based on historical accuracy to deny a minority a role in any film set in any period. We have a white guy playing the Last Samurai. We have British people playing aristocratic Russians. We have white people playing ancient Egyptians.

Being "shoehorned" in is not a valid counter argument or excuse to deny a minority actor a role.

Totally killed the movie, that. Couldn't for a second feel IMMERSED in the fictional world of Shakespeare. /s

It's not hard to come up with some bullshit justification to have black people with 10th-16th century europeans for example, either. "He's a moor" and we're done, explanation given, audience give a fuck remains at 0.

Why even give a handwave? Does it really matter if a black man is playing Julius Caesar? It doesn't matter. Present the character and let it go, the audience will figure it out.

 

[Giant Panda]

The point is that there is no justification based on historical accuracy to deny a minority a role in any film set in any period. We have a white guy playing the Last Samurai. We have British people playing aristocratic Russians. We have white people playing ancient Egyptians.

Being "shoehorned" in is not a valid counter argument or excuse to deny a minority actor a role.

So you don't think roles can be shoehorned? I have a problem with whites ending up in roles that don't make sense, and some can minorities end up in roles that don't make sense too. You wouldn't have a problem denying Asian actors the Samurai roles just to have Blacks and Latinos for the sake of diversity?

 

[Knightmarre]

Samurai is plural, Tom Cruise is not the last samurai. Its about the end a tradition not about one white dude.

 

[Dio]

The point is that there is no justification based on historical accuracy to deny a minority a role in any film set in any period. We have a white guy playing the Last Samurai. We have British people playing aristocratic Russians. We have white people playing ancient Egyptians.

Being "shoehorned" in is not a valid counter argument or excuse to deny a minority actor a role.

I think what people make the mental connection with is the media from the 90s that reduced minorities to token inclusive characters, like 'the black one,' 'the one that is disabled in a wheelchair,' 'the chinese one' et cetera. Of course I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with including minorities in media but I remember, along with most people that remember that era, the hilariously stereotypical attempts at inclusion back then.

For some reason people still make that connection even though I don't think much media like that has been made for quite a few years now.

 

[Nepenthe]

Wait hold up hold up hold up. You don't mean that thread about getting rid of the gender option in the Pokemon games do you? Because if so, then I guess I was smart in avoiding it. I bet it got reeeeealll bad in there.

Lol it wasn't even asking to get rid of the current gender options. It was asking to add gender-neutral (they/them) pronouns or to simply not lock clothing options to a specific gender. Us cis people would've lost nothing and we still shat the bed.

 

[Nelo Ice]

Yep, diet racism is why I've ghosted now former friends. Hearing shit like police brutality isn't an issue because America is too big and all those incidents are isolated is just straight up idiocy. And my former friend and his family who said this are minorities.

Then I have a friend who I actually respect for his scientific opinions but yet he's a hardcore libertarian and he's doubled down on Gary Johnson. And of course he's a straight white male.

 

[Chichikov]

Not one Russian or word of Russian spoken in this whole movie.

"White people are all alike; every person of color is historically inaccurate is their own way".

 

[Frozenprince]

Samurai is plural, Tom Cruise is not the last samurai. Its about the end a tradition not about one white dude.

 

[Staccat0]

Can we add "acting like your brain magically escaped being influenced by a racist culture and media" to the list?

 

[krazen]

tom cruise is an american army captain in the movie.

a better example would be something like gods of Egypt that had zero narrative purpose for casting the game of thrones guy and russell crowe as Egyptian deities.

True, but the underlying problem is that its not the minorities story to tell and the caucasian character is the focus. Like the Miles Davis movie earlier this year; why is half the movie based around a white fictional rollingstone reporter?

 

[BronsonLee]

Diet racism does not exist because racism is not soda

If it's racist it's racist

 

[capitalCORN]

Lol it wasn't even asking to get rid of the current gender options. It was asking to add gender-neutral (they/them) pronouns or to simply not lock clothing options to a specific gender. Us cis people would've lost nothing and we still shat the bed.

It's Nintendo. Shit's sacrosanct like the holy grail.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

So you don't think roles can be shoehorned? I have a problem with whites ending up in roles that don't make sense, and some can minorities end up in roles that don't make sense too. You wouldn't have a problem denying Asian actors the Samurai roles just to have Blacks and Latinos for the sake of diversity?

You're making leaps and it's making your argument look extremely weak.

Respond to what is actually being said

 

[Frozenprince]

Diet racism does not exist because racism is not soda

If it's racist it's racist

Also this

 

[stephen08]

What an unexpected and exciting turn for this thread.

😑

 

[Crossing Eden]

So you don't think roles can be shoehorned? I have a problem with whites ending up in roles that don't make sense, and some can minorities end up in roles that don't make sense too. You wouldn't have a problem denying Asian actors the Samurai roles just to have Blacks and Latinos for the sake of diversity?

This is some next level mental gymnastics holy shit.