VFXVeteran
Banned
Exactly. It's a marketing ploy like most game companies. Can't blame them that much though.
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[Digital Foundry] Exclusive: Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition Analysis - The First Triple-A Ray Tracing Game
- Thread starter DonJorginho
- Start date
VFXVeteran
Banned
Bruh you aren't being fair to me at all. I never said anything against DS, R&C or Returnal. I even gave fair graphics analysis of 2 of the Sony games. The fallout for the last two days was me defending the claim that R&C look as good or better than a Pixar film. Shoot me. Why am I considered being in "pain" because of that? I don't know what you expect from me. To agree with that when I know better and have seen better than R&C?
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DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Whatever Pixar has to offer, will always be better than any last gen, current gen, next gen game we can play. With that being said, this is definitely the closest we will be to next gen games.
Did consoles release with or without raytracing? Yeah it's no where near PC abilities, especially when you have Nvidia gpu's and are comparing to weaker AMD gpu's. But this game games the cake to being closer to pixar then any game in existence, just because of the lighting. Most people don't understand/realize how monumental this is, to have realistic lighting in real time. Not just very miniscule and basic abilities of ray tracing, which ratchet & clank exhibit and other games exhibit.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I have nitpicked several games. No one game is perfect. But I will praise a game that's doing something unique. Demon Souls did and I spent time writing an analysis of it. If a game is doing something great and technical - I'll give them props no matter what platform they are on. This is bad-ass and it's 4A that should get props. They got it more together than iDSoftware. Who used to be the company to push tech forward.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That's fair. But I will say, most of the Pixar shit was just to get under your skin because us lowly folk know how to push them buttons. You should have seen that from a mile away, lol. And passing comparisons by casual gamers or observers will happen with that game, it's nothing to get worked up over that a spreadsheet will still go over their heads. The response would be, "meh, whatever, shit looks the same to me (comparing to the Pixar 'look')."
And I respect that and appreciate that work. That is your best work when you're not so concerned about what gaming trolls and fanatics are saying. I personally hold you to a higher standard because of the tag you rock and you do know what you're talking about. Alex, he's just a buffoon that has his (not so) clever ways to troll and instigate. He doesn't hold a candle to you as far as knowledge and expertise, FWIW, and refuse to put him in the same sentence as you as far as a professional.
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
People in this thread shitting on dev which started worked by smuggling PCs to their country and even now, operates with 1/10 of their favorite dev....yet this dev produces quality beyond many titles, yeah textures and models are especially now looking bit shit in comparison to engine tech, however when this came out, it was unbeatable.
If outher devs have ounce of the passion these guy has, we would be playing different games...
I guess working in a poor development studio, which produces cult classic, makes me sensitive to this.
If outher devs have ounce of the passion these guy has, we would be playing different games...
I guess working in a poor development studio, which produces cult classic, makes me sensitive to this.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
In my veins!!!
Whatever Spiderman MM is doing, is thanks to pc tech inside the PS5. So prize pc for Spiderman MM too. Maybe when Sony go back making chips again we can prize their tech again...
Mister Wolf
Member
Will be interesting to see if STALKER 2 can surpass Metro Exodus. I'm positive they will use RTGI as well.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Is this game's frame rate another good indicative of RTX cards being much better than AMD 6000 cards again or this is a RTX friendly game too?
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StateofMajora
Banned
Very untrue. Tell me that jet set radio future would look better with full ray tracing and I'll horse laugh.
Artistically placed lighting will always have its benefits.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Mister Wolf
Member
Silly example. Jet Set Future was never meant to look realistic in the first place which is exactly what raytracing brings to the table.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Why wouldn't that look better with RT? I literally mentioned this exact game for that exact intent a while back! Artistically placed lighting only "looks better", when you are used to fake lighting, with no regards to how lighting realistically actually "works".
Id love a remaster of the game, but even more so with updated gfx & RT.
Tickle My Tendies
Member
This looks like the best ray traced lighting I've seen yet. Definitely gonna check it out even though I beat it when it released.
Alex gives a pretty good breakdown here. The RT seems excellent.
Alex gives a pretty good breakdown here. The RT seems excellent.
StateofMajora
Banned
Absolutely ; ray tracing will have its uses for a realistically lit scene. Even for some older games that targeted realism, though it would depend on the scene.
But if you just chuck it into anything and everything it's going to ruin a lot of artistry.
Guilhermegrg
Member
I agree. But the key point is that if you wait, you really do get the extra bounces. So there is seemingly no "cutoff", except the point at which further bounces don't make a visual difference.
Compare that to a game like Quake 2 RTX, where if you configure the game for 2 bounces, that's all you will ever see. (Since the lighting information isn't reused from past frames)
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StateofMajora
Banned
Because it's not realistic! If you dim everything in that game down because it's using the sun as a light source and some textures are in shadow and change the aesthetics you royally fuck it up.
Buncha philistines. Good lord
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Just have to rely on artists to manipulate it in certain situations. Much like movie studios manipulate lighting and post processing in certain scenes as well to add more atmosphere or to simulate how your eye would react, rather than the camera reacting to full lit environments.
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DonJuanSchlong
Banned
I understand JSRF is not a haunted or scary game, so having dark environments probably wouldn't be the greatest thing. But why not have day time, all the time, but realistic lighting? I never heard of anyone who wants generic baked-in lighting, over realistic raytracing. I can go back to 2002 for baked in lighting for that game. But I'd rather realistic lighting, as would most people.
roosnam1980
Member
whats with the shadow glitch at 28:30
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ABrokenToy
Member
Yup. Exactly what makes Path Tracing look insane on Minecraft. It completely transforms the game into a next generation showpiece. All because of lighting.
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Dr Bass
Member
Why would you want "not realistic" lighting?
Just about every lighting trick you see in games is an attempt to simulate realism. Going back to Pixar movies, do you not think they employ the most sophisticated lighting code (absolutely using ray tracing) that exists, even though their movies are highly cartoony?
I can't imagine a future where real time ray tracing is possible and "cheap", and a team decides to not use it because it's "not the right look." Artistic choices will still be able to be made.
In regards to earlier in this thread, VFXVeteran already clarified this but, yes you do get much simpler lighting setups with ray tracing because of how it simulates real light. You don't need to rig up a bunch of extra "fake lights" to simulate what, theoretically, one single light in a room could be doing.
People talk about the consoles, and if they would need a "pro" version this gen. Well here it is. I could absolutely see a need for pro models, and all they would need to add is hardware to support higher frame rates and better ray tracing. That's it IMO. We just want better performance and better lighting. If PCs are already doing this kind of ray tracing, the gulf will probably be absolutely huge in 3-4 years and it's going to be obvious.
Seriously if you are of the opinion that ray tracing is just an optional thing and it's a choice between that and previous style lighting and rasterization depending on what you're going for... yeeeeeeaaah you're kind of objectively wrong. Also if this is a console vs. PC war kinda thing and console only gamers are upset that PC is outshining them in this area ... that's silly. Content is still king, and consoles will just never beat PC technically. It's been that way ever since "3D accelerators" became a thing (ahhh 3dfx Voodoo days lol) and it's never going back. Just sit back and enjoy the good times everyone can experience.
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Polygonal_Sprite
Member
It looked better before
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Nope it isn't.
It's RDNA 2 BASED ie CUSTOM.
PS5 has a faster I/O than any consumer gaming PC.
A PC with a PS5 dev kit is what made SM MM not your typical $4000 build.
Dev kits also make games for consumer gaming PC's as well.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Errorlul
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Anyway on point I hope my XSX version and it's Atmos sound holds up.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Oh, you're new to DF titles I see.
I was confused too. Why does DF do titles like that?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Wanted to be hype but that's one boring video, I closed it before it got to the full RT 
Is it funded by NV or does the dev think there are enough RT cards out there that can actually run this stuff despite all the shortages and price inflation? I bet I'm far from the only one who hasn't upgraded from 1080 level to something like 2080 or 3080.
Not all folks with even older GPU that didn't upgrade with the 10line and got a 2060 or 3060 count if this RT version won't run with at least ~60fps VRR either, as many would rather play non RT with that performance then.
Or maybe steam hardware survey has already shown I'm just a poor pleb and most do indeed have beasts nowadays, I dunno.
Too bad the original version isn't getting another pass of spit and shine on the les polished aspects.
Is it funded by NV or does the dev think there are enough RT cards out there that can actually run this stuff despite all the shortages and price inflation? I bet I'm far from the only one who hasn't upgraded from 1080 level to something like 2080 or 3080.
Not all folks with even older GPU that didn't upgrade with the 10line and got a 2060 or 3060 count if this RT version won't run with at least ~60fps VRR either, as many would rather play non RT with that performance then.
Or maybe steam hardware survey has already shown I'm just a poor pleb and most do indeed have beasts nowadays, I dunno.
Too bad the original version isn't getting another pass of spit and shine on the les polished aspects.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Lol. PS5 can't exist without someone inventing x86 architecture back decades ago. Without RDNA2 and Zen 2 as base created by AMD. Without SSD invented decades ago.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Prizing PS5/Xbox on what they are doing while shitting on pc = prizing Mclaren F1 LM while shitting on BMW.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
PC is like a Mclaren with no gas.
The software will always trail the consoles because of the majority of the consumer builds being dinosaurs.
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Dibils2k
Member
This, its the first ray tracing ONLY AAA game on consoles or PC
some people just wanna act dumb
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
The software will always trail the consoles while people still buy them AND because pc allows them to exist providing hardware and software to them. Without PC consoles as they are now can't even exist. While PC can go on if consoles die.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
StateofMajora
Banned
Definitely, depends on the scene.
For example, start out with RT global illumination on everything, then manually move a light here or there, add in some fake water caustics or sun rays there, just depends.
So an open world game would look great with the sun as the source, but maybe indoors move lights around so things look more appealing, but still believable.
And then there's some games where a completely approximated or baked solution may look best, like cartoon/anime styles.
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StateofMajora
Banned
Trust me, it would look like shit and ruin the game. Try it with Wind waker or grabbed by the ghoulies ; they'd also look crap.
Because if everything is realistically lit, that would limit the "pop" and sharpness of the assets in those cases. Great example of this is Wind waker HD ; check out models that are set in shadow and compare them to the original. At times the new lighting looks better than the original, but it goes to show that you can't rely on a completely dynamic solution in all cases.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
So you want to tell me that I'm wrong on something that's generally true across the board by putting a game made to have toon shading? Wow.
Artistically placing lights in a scene has what benefits exactly? I'd love for you to give me an example with screenshots.
Lethal01
Member
I'm aware of how realistic lighting works, doesn't mean that fake lighting can't look better. In fact being able to make super fake unrealistic lighting is one of the benefits of CG.
Armorian
Banned
StateofMajora
Banned
Bro, you said anything. Toon shading is included in everything. That was just the easiest example; because you admit that qualifies what I'm saying.
Any game where some exaggerated lighting adds atmosphere would be ruined by a completely rt solution. Take the lit walls of twilight in twilight princess. Literally I could sit here all day and bring up unrealistic examples that would be amiss with a overly darkened or bright scene change.
You may be an artist but you seem to have a casual interest in the hobby itself. Or certainly not as a purist who can appreciate all aspects of the art.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Fuck TAA as alwaysQuake RTX proved what impact real time lighting has on old ass games
Holy shit:
Armorian
Banned
Ilien will say DLSS is shit