If they are going to kill snap to up to (1.31TF) which people already thought it was, they will be looking at other ways to narrow the gap too. It is called forward thinking. I'm not saying he directly said this. I'm saying they may go down this path later on when companies actually start pushing the consoles.
Digital Foundry: Microsoft to unlock more GPU power for Xbox One developers
- Thread starter DaSorcerer7
- Start date
If they are going to kill snap to up to (1.31TF) which people already thought it was, they will be looking at other ways to narrow the gap too. It is called forward thinking. I'm not saying he directly said this. I'm saying they may go down this path later on when companies actually start pushing the consoles.
Facism
Member
We could but I feel that wouldn't be a definitive test. Mostly crossgen on new hardware that devs hadn't had the pleasure of working with in a stable, fixed-spec environment. Probably next november we'd see differences, if any. I'm personally not expecting a massive gap in 3rd party offerings across the systems, hopefully nothing on the scale of Bayonetta or Red Dead Redemption that we had this generation.
QuikZilver
Member
I thought they said teraflops and gigaflops stuff doesn't matter is all about the games.
BruiserBear
Banned
Ledbetter does point out the double ROPS on PS4 are an asset that will make a difference in some games.
Xbox 360 has more GPU FLOPS & PS3 has more CPU FLOPS.
I think it's unlikely they're slicing 10%... anything less than a 10% slice from PS4's GPU will widen the paper gap vs the 1.31 vs 1.84 people compared before.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
But the gap is shrinking according to some here ><
Glorified G
Member
Classic case of people reading what they want to read. It's going to be a tough generation for some.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
Nevermind that, it's a lot more fun to see people believing this actually closes the gap.
technically yes, it is an assumption. But PS4 doesn't have an equivalent of snap, so there is never any time where a game is running alongside another app, so why would they need to reserve any GPU? When you switch to another app on PS4 the game will be suspended in the background
Risk Breaker
Member
Spinning masters.
Metalmurphy
Member
Perfect example why these articles by RL keep popping up. They work.
DragonSworne
Banned
Microsoft could just get rid of SNAP and KINECT and give the developers 100% of the GPU.
Wouldn't that be awesome?
Wouldn't that be awesome?
GameSeeker
Member
Nope, incorrect.
Even after the GPU & CPU upclock, Microsoft is significantly behind the PS4 in raw HW performance. To compound their mistake, Microsoft chose a high overhead 3 OS design for the Xbone (Hypervisor + Windows partition + game partition). Sony choose a low overhead single OS design (FreeBSD Unix). If you could run them on identical HW, you would find the Sony PS4 OS actually is FASTER than the Microsoft Xbone OS version while running games.
Microsoft realized they delivered underpowered HW, so they spent time working on upclocking. Microsoft has also realized the OS is slow, so they are working to improve performance by reducing some of the reservation, but this won't happen till months after launch.
What Digital Foundry forgot to mention is that Sony continues to improve performance of it's OS over time too. And Microsoft's 3 OS design will never be as fast as a single OS design.
nothing has changed, just the PR
And we get games like the Last of Us on the PS3, doesn't this indicate that people are overemphasizing the differences in specs? Both consoles will likely shell out some gorgeous games, but the way some people freak out, you'd think the X1 could only handle games from a generation ago.
BruiserBear
Banned
Well said. lol
Mr Moose
Member
"PlayStation 4's 32 ROPs are generally acknowledged as overkill for a 1080p resolution (the underlying architecture from AMD was never designed exclusively just for full HD but for other resolutions such as 2560x1400/2560x1600 too), while Xbox One's 16 ROPs could theoretically be overwhelmed by developers."
So are they trying to say "less is more"? In the same way everyone KNOWS 12 >= 18? *cough*
Oh, MicroSoft...
I have no idea what ROPs and CUs and all this tech speak actually means, but more > less in most cases (unless it's based on the size of the console, in which case less >= more).
So are they trying to say "less is more"? In the same way everyone KNOWS 12 >= 18? *cough*
Oh, MicroSoft...
I have no idea what ROPs and CUs and all this tech speak actually means, but more > less in most cases (unless it's based on the size of the console, in which case less >= more).
Sure, but we shouldn't be treating assumptions as fact.
The only "lame" thing here is the first thing people think of is "They are doing this to counter the PS4!". Which tells us more about the mindset people come in and look at this info. Feels like more desperation to defend something that doesn't need defending.
Microsoft might have used 10% as an initial estimation. And as time went on, they might realize they reserved too much, and can tweak some things to bring it down a notch.
You'd be surprised at how some very simple coding procedures can make a dramatic impact on performance.
No!
We knew that the GPU of the PS4 was clearly a lot stronger.
Now it got confirmed what we already knew --> 10% of the GPU is reserved for KINECT stuff.
So the XBone GPU was even more weakened.
Microsoft will try to reserve less of these 10% for KINECT.
Not only was their GPU a lot weaker.
It had 10% reserved for KINECT.
This is brutal.
We'll have this discussion about both consoles because it will be like it is every generation when it comes to resolution and frame rate. There will always be the devs that prefer prettier pixels over more pixels.
To the average Joe Gamer, prettier pixels will always rule the day. I have a feeling that as long as it's at least 720p, no one but the enthusiast pixel counters will care. Personally, I'm torn. It really depends on the game. Personally, I would rather have the prettiest God of War than it running at a mandated 1080p/60fps.
That's why I was kind of surprised that 343 would commit to 60 fps. As long as it matches the quality of the reveal trailer, I don't see myself fretting over resolution as long as it's at least 720p.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Nothing has changed. We already knew that kinect and the snap feature took used 10% of the Xbox One GPU performance. MS are now saying that at some undetermined point in the future that they might be able to release some of that 10% back to the developers for games.
Sidewinder
Member
Shaking my head here too.
How can tell which OS is faster without actually seeing both of them in action and then directly comparing them? Nothing I've seen of the Xbox One OS remotely suggests it's slow.
You make it seem like they just rolled out an update that took 10 percent of GPU away. That's not the case at all. Devs are working with spec they're talking about in this article, and they're saying they will be able to give them more of that back later.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Gori said:
Its not difficult to see which way Eurogamer as a whole leans, platform-wise.
Be interesting to see if they stick with MS if Xbone fails to retain market leadership for them, because I have a sneaking suspicion that what they have is an editorial policy of pandering to the "fanboy" demographic simply because its best for clicks. i.e. its more cynical and exploitative than corrupt.
Whiteshirt
Member
Specs and development difficulties are what buried the PS3 for the longest time and it still does. People keep bringing up The Last of Us but it was bloody Naughty Dog working on that game. Its an example that is frequently used as a "get out of jail" card but the problem is that they're one of the most talented developers in the industry and are pretty much given a carte blanche by Sony to do whatever - something most developers don't have the luxury to do.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Don't worry, the guys are 343 have talent and money on their side.
The points being made in this thread by certain people do make sense though. As you have noticed some of them being quoted and called out for reading what they want to read and assuming things and I'm not necessarily talking about you.
As time goes by, MS
can optimize and reduce the resources used by their OS and apps. This is known.
They are saying that, in theory, they can give some back to developers. Of course, they could also use the same resources to improve Kinect or the OS instead.
Microsoft is claiming that they will go the first route, in which case we might get a 5% increase in gpu capability in a few years.This is negligible and can safely be ignored.
My theory is that this is some pretty effective marketing to push the story that X1 is closing the gap, which it can't, of course. If MS had a do over and knew GDDR5 would be available/cheap enough, they would have undoubtedly gone with 8GB of GDDR5 and taken the small hit to profitability.
I wonder if Sony will shelve VR until the PS5 because they have decided that they need at least 1600p resolution screens to make the image palatable (480p maybe?) and the PS4 is just not beefy enough to run games at 60fps in that resolution, even if they use simplified graphics.
In any case, I hope the Oculus VR will gets us a next gen console generation in 5 years or less. 8 years is too damn long.
and others
They are saying that, in theory, they can give some back to developers. Of course, they could also use the same resources to improve Kinect or the OS instead.
Microsoft is claiming that they will go the first route, in which case we might get a 5% increase in gpu capability in a few years.This is negligible and can safely be ignored.
My theory is that this is some pretty effective marketing to push the story that X1 is closing the gap, which it can't, of course. If MS had a do over and knew GDDR5 would be available/cheap enough, they would have undoubtedly gone with 8GB of GDDR5 and taken the small hit to profitability.
I wonder if Sony will shelve VR until the PS5 because they have decided that they need at least 1600p resolution screens to make the image palatable (480p maybe?) and the PS4 is just not beefy enough to run games at 60fps in that resolution, even if they use simplified graphics.
In any case, I hope the Oculus VR will gets us a next gen console generation in 5 years or less. 8 years is too damn long.
Once again, you enter a highly technical discussion throwing out the same talking point about "bu bu bu bu graphics don't matter to the hardcore."
C'mon mang.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
That and the ICE Team is in their house. Not only does ND have that base but the entirety of WW Studios at Sony.
I let him slide on that part as I don't really see the point in trying to create some hostility but thank you bringing it up nicely.
Most of those development difficulties are blamed on the Cell Processor in the end, the point is, its a beautiful game, and it wasn't the only one on the PS3. It's not like there aren't any other talented studios out there that can't make a gorgeous game.
Yeah but I'm pretty sure Sony gave themselves some wiggle room to evolve the OS over ten years. PS4 can have all the GPU advantage it wants, but if the OS is as clunky and basic as the stuff on Smart TVs, people will complain.
No. I have never seen pre-launch upclocks before. Downclocks yes. Correct me if I missed anything.
Thanks to all the posters for reminding everyone of the PS4s flop and rop advantages, this article speaks about OS footprint and MS attempt to reduce this over time, which obviously cant be discussed without continual affirmation of the PS4 power advantage. Especially helpful are the comparisons to a mythical PS4 with no OS footprint. Afterall, if we let those who are interested in the xbox one discuss specs on their own, they would all just eat up MSs message without questions. Thats why the community here is so great, for their "balance".
Not any more than any other part of the gpu. So much for that "specials ROPs."
I never said something about "magical" or "special" ROPs. I just said that I heard they are faster than people would think.
What? I am just curious if they could do it, not that they will are or. I'm not trying to win any type of argument or anything. I asked to satisfy my own curiosity.
Good job on attacking innocent members legitimate questions and turning it into some silly war.