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[Digital Foundry] New PS5 Pro GPU details emerge - including a 2.35GHz max boost clock

PaintTinJr

Member
It’s actually a common misconception but the HDMI spec does not enforce 48 as the minimum. 40 minimum is perfectly allowed and will adhere to the specification for HDMI VRR. 40 vs 48 is up to the device or panel.

Sony is being odd about this, some of their older TVs were limited to 48 minimum for VRR but this was a limitation of the MediaTek chip. The latest Bravia sets support the full VRR range, 40-120 and supports LFC. It’s even Gsync compatible. Curious why the PS5 hasn’t been updated. It took Sony several years to implement VRR, so maybe down the road.
Which spec? VRR wasn't developed to be a fullscale frame-rate catcher, it was to offer different options for stable frame-rate, so even the phrase low frame-rate compensation is at odds with why VRR is even available on PlayStation. Sony only provide support for compatibility on their newer TVs for consumer convenience with other products, not because they advocate for that solution, hence why it isn't in their gaming console which is where they advocate for the solutions they feel are correct for gaming.
 

Zathalus

Member
Which spec? VRR wasn't developed to be a fullscale frame-rate catcher, it was to offer different options for stable frame-rate, so even the phrase low frame-rate compensation is at odds with why VRR is even available on PlayStation. Sony only provide support for compatibility on their newer TVs for consumer convenience with other products, not because they advocate for that solution, hence why it isn't in their gaming console which is where they advocate for the solutions they feel are correct for gaming.
VRR support for the HDMI 2.1 specification created by the HDMI Forum. There is no specific range for VRR, 40-120hz or 48-120hz are both perfectly valid. The PS5 fully supports VRR below 48fps via LFC but it is up to the developer to implement it.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
PSSR isn't free.
Neither are any of the other upscalers - short of doing bicubic upsample, and even that has a cost associated with it at 4k simply because of memory writes.
Basically - unless you're comparing 1080p native, with letting TV doing the upscale to PSSR from 1080p->4k, the cost is never simply 'whatever PSSR costs' - it would only be the relative difference between say - FSR3.x to PSSR on target hardware.
Also we know nothing about how much of that can be async-ed with the rest of the frame (since we don't know anything about the execution units that accelerate AI inference in PS5Pro or how they work). So the amortized cost could be significantly lower than the fixed-time block it consumes if executed on its own. But of course - we're making a lot of assumptions about the base-cost in the first place.

The whole thing is kind of moot - when VR hw launched in 2016, Oculus would eat as much as 4ms on the recommended spec(970) just to do its reprojection/warping/tracking and other stuff and noone ever talked about consuming '30% of the frame at 90fps', it was just a fixed cost VR titles worked with. Likewise, DLSS was much more impactful on 20xx series than it is today, and again - it was barely a footnote, everyone just talked about visual results and ignored the trade-offs.

Btw them using Perf modes instead of Fidelity is a big deal
I expect most of this has to do with Fidelity modes potentially having a different CPU footprint, so when you are given 2 days to make a ProPatch and ship it (that's what PS4Pro updates were like in Launch period) you are gonna go with the safest possible option - not choose options that require you to retest the entire game multiple times with no time for it.
Ie. I would caution on making assumption on GPU specific elements in these early updates, especially with next to no benchmarking. It's not like PS4Pro paper specs were a good predictor of what we actually ended up getting either.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Here we go. Ratchet using performance RT settings on the Pro. Fewer crowd, sky detail, worse foliage, and reflections. Among other downgrades we saw when going from PS5 Fidelity to Performance.



If Sony's own developers are being this lazy with it, i have zero faith in other devs putting in the time to max out the Pro's RT capabilities.

Ratchet's Performance RT mode also ran at 1440p using their own temporal upscaling technique so the PSSR hit shouldve been minimal here. Just use the extra 45% GPU to get the settings on par with the fidelity mode, no? The new RT performance upgrades shouldve made it even easier to push other graphics settings by reducing the RT load on GPU. I dont know whats going on over at Sony studios. This one is not on Cerny.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Here we go. Ratchet using performance RT settings on the Pro. Fewer crowd, sky detail, worse foliage, and reflections. Among other downgrades we saw when going from PS5 Fidelity to Performance.



If Sony's own developers are being this lazy with it, i have zero faith in other devs putting in the time to max out the Pro's RT capabilities.

Ratchet's Performance RT mode also ran at 1440p using their own temporal upscaling technique so the PSSR hit shouldve been minimal here. Just use the extra 45% GPU to get the settings on par with the fidelity mode, no? The new RT performance upgrades shouldve made it even easier to push other graphics settings by reducing the RT load on GPU. I dont know whats going on over at Sony studios. This one is not on Cerny.

Yeah, this is definitely low-effort. I've known for a while it would be like this, but I was hoping for a surprise. The 45% better GPU and 2-3x faster RT are doing nothing at all here. They're not even using them.
 
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Radical_3d

Member
Yeah, this is definitely low-effort. I've known for a while it would be like this, but I was hoping for a surprise. The 45% better GPU and 2-3x faster RT are doing nothing at all here. They're not even using them.
james horner spiderman GIF
 

iQuasarLV

Member
With all the hand jerking of descriptions about system optimization people were actually thinking you could copy pasta the code over to essentially a new GPU and it would just activate more headroom? HAHAHA.

The 9 minute video announcement should have been your first red flag before ever actually watching the announcement.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
With all the hand jerking of descriptions about system optimization people were actually thinking you could copy pasta the code over to essentially a new GPU and it would just activate more headroom? HAHAHA.
thats literally how it works. The PS4 pro did not need a patch to run KZSF at 60 fps because it was uncapped. The extra horsepower just made it run faster. Same thing with Until Dawn.

On the PS5, GOW 2018 and TLG ran at 60 fps using Pro settings without a patch because their physical releases were uncapped. Elden Ring runs better on PS5 too because its running the ps4 pro version at 60.

It's how all PC games work. Now devs can port the game to the latest SDK to take better advantage of the hardware with higher settings and while they ported the game to the latest PS5 Pro SDK, they forgot to upgrade the settings.

Yeah, this is definitely low-effort. I've known for a while it would be like this, but I was hoping for a surprise. The 45% better GPU and 2-3x faster RT are doing nothing at all here. They're not even using them.
After the leaks which specifically stated that some games were adding an additional RT effect on top of the one that was already on the base PS5, i had figured it was one of the insomniac games and they would add RT shadows to the mix. especially since insomniac are the only first party to actually bother implementing RT.
 

Tqaulity

Member
I love Ratchet & Clank RA but this is one of the most disappointing PRO updates by far. All they have done is take the Performance mode and replace their custom temporal injection solution with PSSR. Wow.

The game is already running at native 4K/40+fps on the base console with RT reflections. Should be fairly low effort to get it running at 4K/60 with the GPU upgrade alone (at fidelity settings). They could also add in the higher res RT reflections and/or RT shadows from the PC port.

Knowing Insomniac, they probably will add more updates in future patches after the November launch but still this (and SpiderMan games) are the worse reasons to upgrade to a PRO so far).
 

Tqaulity

Member
Furthermore, if Boost mode does what we think it will do, then that alone should take the DRS resolution and uncapped framerates in fidelity mode and push it to native 4k/60 (or comfortably within the VRR range). That actually might be the best way to play R&C at launch (even without PSSR)
 
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iQuasarLV

Member
thats literally how it works. The PS4 pro did not need a patch to run KZSF at 60 fps because it was uncapped. The extra horsepower just made it run faster. Same thing with Until Dawn.

On the PS5, GOW 2018 and TLG ran at 60 fps using Pro settings without a patch because their physical releases were uncapped. Elden Ring runs better on PS5 too because its running the ps4 pro version at 60.

It's how all PC games work. Now devs can port the game to the latest SDK to take better advantage of the hardware with higher settings and while they ported the game to the latest PS5 Pro SDK, they forgot to upgrade the settings.


After the leaks which specifically stated that some games were adding an additional RT effect on top of the one that was already on the base PS5, i had figured it was one of the insomniac games and they would add RT shadows to the mix. especially since insomniac are the only first party to actually bother implementing RT.
PS4=>PS4Pro =/= PS5=>PS5Pro
A long ass paragraph summarized in one explanation.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
PS4=>PS4Pro =/= PS5=>PS5Pro
A long ass paragraph summarized in one explanation.
And you’re be wrong. They tested with a frame rate cap. If they tested uncapped, the Pro’s extra GPU power would run the game faster.
 
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iQuasarLV

Member
And you’re be wrong. They tested with a frame rate cap. If they tested uncapped, the Pro’s extra GPU power would run the game faster.
This generation is NOT about just FPS numbers genius. It's not about copy pasta go vrrrrrr and get 60fps. There's upscaling. There's ray tracing. There is 1.5 generational gap from ps5 to pro. That is not something you can just copy over and the old code is just gonna work. If you believe that I guess Todd Howard has games he would like to sell you.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Furthermore, if Boost mode does what we think it will do, then that alone should take the DRS resolution and uncapped framerates in fidelity mode and push it to native 4k/60 (or comfortably within the VRR range). That actually might be the best way to play R&C at launch (even without PSSR)
Great point. 45% more GPU should easily help get that 40-45 fps vrr mode to 60 fps. Especially with the new RT enhancements. Especially since it has DRS support so it should just hit 60 fps almost all the time even if it drops below native 4k during stressful areas.

It's entirely possible that insomniac just looked at how well the fidelity mode was running on the Pro and said ok, we will just replace the reconstruction technique for the Performance mode and call it a day.
 

Paulxo87

Member
insomniac says they are interested in enhanced quality modes.... i think we will have an expanded 30fps mode arrive sometime over the next few months with boosted ray tracing etc
 

Imtjnotu

Member
Here we go. Ratchet using performance RT settings on the Pro. Fewer crowd, sky detail, worse foliage, and reflections. Among other downgrades we saw when going from PS5 Fidelity to Performance.



If Sony's own developers are being this lazy with it, i have zero faith in other devs putting in the time to max out the Pro's RT capabilities.

Ratchet's Performance RT mode also ran at 1440p using their own temporal upscaling technique so the PSSR hit shouldve been minimal here. Just use the extra 45% GPU to get the settings on par with the fidelity mode, no? The new RT performance upgrades shouldve made it even easier to push other graphics settings by reducing the RT load on GPU. I dont know whats going on over at Sony studios. This one is not on Cerny.

You want full effort in a 4 year old game?
 

Kangx

Member from Brazile
Some of you don't take cpu bottleneck into account with RT is really bizarre. The pro cpu is essentially the same as the base ps5. Maybe just maybe the fidelity mode is too demanding for the cpu?
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
You want full effort in a 4 year old game?

They want full effort on FOUR old games.

The reality is PSSR opens the door for further upgrades with the PS6 and it's Sony's way of having people invest more in the PS ecosystem.

Not sure what people thought Insomniac should do for Rift Apart, maybe people would be more impressed with a 120 fps mode that does little to nothing for the visuals.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Some of you don't take cpu bottleneck into account with RT is really bizarre. The pro cpu is essentially the same as the base ps5. Maybe just maybe the fidelity mode is too demanding for the cpu?
Doubt it. RT Performance Mode when unlocked runs at like 80fps. The RT effects aren't cutting the CPU's performance by 25%. Insomniac just couldn't be bothered because they have a ton of things going and Rift Apart is by a wide margin their worst selling game.
 

Topher

Identifies as young
People are buying it for future titles or this year's
No one is buying it because of 4 year old games

Especially not Sony first party games which have already been pretty much the best looking games on PS. Third party games are the ones struggling with UE5 and such so that's where I personally want to see improvements.
 

AW_CL

Member
I'm also curious to see what Insomniac might do with a PS5 Pro fidelity mode. Mike Fitzgerald from Insomniac hinted in an interview I conducted last month that a fidelity mode with additional RT (like RT shadows or RTAO) could be in the cards for Pro owners.

Could be in the cards? At a price of $700, it's ridiculous that the Fidelity Pro mode isn't available from the start.
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
This mode is likely running 100-120fps with overall better IQ than the base PS5 Performance RT mode. It's an ok effort for a Pro performance mode targeting ultra high framerates.

Just calm down and wait for the PS5 Pro fidelity mode.
 

XXL

Gold Member
People are buying it for future titles or this year's
No one is buying it because of 4 year old games
I'm buying it for a handful of older titles, some newer titles I haven't played yet, PSVR 2 upgrades and future games.
 
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