Fabieter
Member
They have dlc coming so its definitely possible
Digital Foundry: Indiana Jones and the Great Circle - PS5/PS5 Pro Tech Review - Excellent Game, Decent Port
- Thread starter Zuzu
- Start date
They have dlc coming so its definitely possible
Call of Duty: Black Ops 6's PS5 Pro upgrades are more substantial than you may think
An inside look at the new features COD adds for PS5 Pro - and the latest BLOPs 6 enhancements added for all systems.
www.eurogamer.net
We're talking about the same MS that were being mocked here because some of their PS5 ports ran overall a bit better than the Xbox versions?
viveks86
Member
Good point on CoD. Forgot about that!Call of Duty: Black Ops 6's PS5 Pro upgrades are more substantial than you may think
An inside look at the new features COD adds for PS5 Pro - and the latest BLOPs 6 enhancements added for all systems.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Not saying the whole video needs to be focused on that, but to separate them entirely from comparison seems to be on purpose. It's not as if people have a binary option of selecting the PS5 or PS5 Pro. It's obvious that they have to acknowledge the Pro is the best console to play things on, it's beyond factual and short of a bug that's going to be the case 100% of the time. What they don't want is to have Xbox fans consider their version as particularly lesser than, less they decide to buy the Pro instead of an XSX.
If you don't own a next gen console yet, the obvious choice is to get the Pro, but if you have one already, there should be some quality comparison to see whether it would be worth moving to a completely different ecosystem, take a loss on your trade-in in order to play games in better shape. DF glosses over that entirely and there really is no precedent for it.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
A game that plays to parity with the original is not a shit port. It's hilarious how people have moved the goalposts on what a quality port is here.
Topher
Identifies as young
Would VRS not be able to help raise the lower bound of 1440p?
Wouldn't be surprised either way as far as additional updates. This game is going to peak in sales fairly quickly I think.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
My guy calling this running at ~1800p with RTGI and a solid-ass 60fps on base PS5 a shit port.
A shit port would be Bayonetta on the PS3.
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DanielG165
Member
What will always be the most interesting to me between all of the console versions of Indiana Jones, is the power efficiency that the SX has. How it is able to pull so little wattage while running the game at the level that it does is super impressive.
The lower limit is almost an anecdote because most of the time it is at much higher resolutions or at the upper limit..... especially during pure gameplay.
Especially because calling this "shit port" when it's better or no worse than many many other ports already released that don't even come close to this level of polish and performance is... well, let's just call it "curious"
My guy calling this running at ~1800p with RTGI and a solid-ass 60fps on base PS5 a shit port.
A shit port would be Bayonetta on the PS3.
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Hensen Juang
Member
Here's the thing: we paid a lot of money to make sure it was done that way, and you can bet your ass it's going to stay that way.
- Yours Truly
Mr Moose
Gold Member
Lower clock speeds.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yeah, pretty much. Fewer cores at higher clocks consume more power than more cores at lower clocks.
omegasc
Member
This thread has become pure console war comedy
My guy calling this running at ~1800p with RTGI and a solid-ass 60fps on base PS5 a shit port.
A shit port would be Bayonetta on the PS3.
DanielG165
Member
Thanks guys!
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Im referring to the PS5 pro version here. It's fine for the base PS5 version but they exerted the absolute minimum effort on the pro. Sorry, but I'm not celebrating that.
My guy calling this running at ~1800p with RTGI and a solid-ass 60fps on base PS5 a shit port.
A shit port would be Bayonetta on the PS3.
I get what you mean, but think about it this way:
Xbox is dead. Series S, X or W(hatever) versions are irrelevant. No one watching the video gives a fuck about Xbox and absolutely no one is going to buy an Xbox to play Indiana Jones (as it was evident already, it didn't push console sales to the surprise of no one). On the other hand, a Base PS5-PS5 Pro head-to-head is relevant because there's actually people who want to buy a PS5 Pro or may consider buying one if they get to see significant upgrades on many games/games they are interested in compared to the base PS5 (which they may or may not already own).
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SweetTooth
Banned
drganon
Member
lol, i played it on pc bro maxxed out. Consoles can't compete with how i played it.
Also, i would argue that if you played it on xbox for like 2 thirds the cost of the ps5 pro you are laughing all the way to the bank.
Xbox looks almost identical to ps5 pro.
On another note. Good to see series x VRS working on this title. It looks considerably higher resolution than base ps5 and considerably better performance in the stress test scene.
Obviously helps with games with raytracing.
I know it hurtsSweetTooth but it's ok.
Still pretending you're a PC gamer.
Fess
Member
They have lots of XSX, PS5, PS5 Pro side-by-side segments in the video, just ignore the middle portion and you get what you want.
To be honest, XSX isn't even needed there, could've just shown a quick glimpse of it just to verify that the PlayStation ports aren't botched. It's a video focusing on the new ports for a new audience, PlayStation-only gamers.
They might do an enthusiast focused video later with PC thrown in there too. Going by online talk enthusiast Xbox gamers are moving to PC, has been going on for awhile now, so Pro vs a reasonably priced PC would probably be a better video for that audience than just launched Pro vs already dead XSX.
playbignbox
Member
If I look at the "whole picture", the situation is definitely even worse, as there are far more "PS5 Pro enhanced" games with negligible differences than situations like the AC one you mentioned. Is it just me not seeing the "whole picture" or are most PS5 Pro owners just in denial and have to count on their fingers the games where the enhancements actually make a noticeable difference?
Not only that, there are situations where games look worse in some aspects with the implementation of Sony's PSSR upscaling, for example in games like Silent Hill 2, DD2, SW Outlaws, Jedi Survivor, etc.
And I'm seeing people complaining that MachineGames didn't do a good job, as if Sony itself doesn't disappoint with versions of its own games for the PS5 Pro, like in its last new exclusive game released, Astro Bot, which could have a 120fps version for example on the PS5 Pro.
I'm seeing a lot of people being way too lenient with this lame excuse of a "Pro console" that Sony is pushing for $700.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The game that tried to be a graphical benchmark, Astro Bot… sure…
Looking at games that did push more emphasis on graphics, like Spider-man 2, we do see them flex RT a lot more and it came out several months before too. Machine Games' DualSense buggy and barebones implementation tells a lot about their prioritisation of the port.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
He is now
.Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Not even base PS5 version, Dual Sense implementation is horrible… :/…
Astray
Member
I feel you gotta be more fair to the Machine Games peeps here.
It was only months ago that they got the decision from up high to restart work on a PS5 port that was previously cancelled. They didn't have as much time as you think they did.
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SKYF@ll
Member
Jedi Survivor isn't perfect, but it's improved and the PS5 Pro is enough to enjoy 4K/60fps/RT.
DD2 and SW Outlaws are also much clearer than the base PS5.
Even games without the Pro patch have a performance improvement of around 35-40%, and the DRS resolution is close to the upper limit.
The PS5 Pro version of Fortnite now comes with a 50% increase in resolution and HWRT on High - Epic settings.
This is a console where the GPU has been changed from RX6700 to RX6800 (+BVH8, +300TOPS AI core).
Sony is not to blame for the simple update where the developer just increased the resolution by 44%.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
A bit late to this. Read the article. So the game isn't using PSSR for Pro and isn't utilizing VRS?
"The PS5 Pro benefits are worth touching on too. While hardware based VRS is in theory a feature of Pro, it doesn't seem to use it here. "
"another potential advantage of Series X's hardware VRS"
" All use id Tech's TAA method to clean up visual noise"
Indiana Jones and the Great Circle on PS5: excellent game, solid port
The PS5 and PS5 Pro ports of Indiana Jones and the Great Circle lack much in the way of new features - but the game is still golden.
Seems a bit of tech is being left on the table here.
Yeah, if the pro supports VRS why not enable it for the pro to reach native 4k more often or bump other effects. This is the first game where VRS seems to really work for me. Can hardly see the artifacts unless you zoom in like crazy.
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Little Chicken
Member
I think some people need to get their head around the fact that there's really not a lot of headroom left for the PS5 Pro to improve on an already technically impressive 60fps game.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I am not sure it was ever cancelled or paused… will be happier if they do improve it though.
I am sorry but DualSense support feels broken and barebones, I have not had any game where it felt broken (whirring and clicking on its own). Haptics are really toned down and just a barebone port of the normal rumble too.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Something 2/4x faster in RT and with faster I/O is stuck at lower than lowest PC settings and with the exact same LOD issues with shadows and lighting as the other consoles? Nope… again… I can take a rushed port argument as some made, but when I see them shipping a broken and barebones DualSense implementation (adaptive triggers and haptics respectively) I question the care a bit too. That does not scream "they maxed it all, it cannot get any faster than that Jim!".
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
You're missing my point. There is a reason why the middle portion is added, because they don't want to do a direct comparison. It's one thing to say that the PS5 Pro is the best option, it's another to specifically show the PS5 Pro as better than the XSX. It's pretty basic marketing strategy here in avoiding direct comparison.
If what you were saying is true, they would have removed the XSX from being compared to the PS5, but they do direct comparison with the PS5 and the XSX multiple times through the video and they've done that consistently since the PS5 Pro launched. What they haven't done is put the XSX in direct comparison with the PS5 Pro if it was less flattering to the XSX.
DF can't ignore the fact that the PS5 Pro is significantly better than the XSX without massive impact to their credibility. What they will do instead is obfuscate and minimize the direct comparison, including putting out PS5 Pro videos entirely separately and even in those videos they'll ignore the XSX and generally only compare it to the base PS5.
Xbox fanboys online want to shift the narrative to PC, but that's not what we're seeing on the ground. The PS5 is outselling the PS4 in the United States. Which means they're increasing their market share and considerably. People are buying PS5s and PS5 Pros instead of XSX, that's a reality. DF and others though have tried hard to downplay the PS5 Pro, but it's becoming more and more difficult to do so. The best they can do now is avoid direct comparison.
It's interesting you brought this up because you're absolutely right, that the internet tells a different story and there are reasons for that.
I also agree with you that the Pro vs a reasonably priced PC would be a great video, but they also avoid that comparison as well.
- DF claimed the XSX would outperform the PS5 and its been the opposite
- DF claimed before the PS5 Pro even launched that it didn't make sense as a product
- DF has claimed that the PS5 Pro is one of the most underwhelming pieces of hardware, despite acknowledging that games play better on it
- Games don't play better on Switch OLED or Steam Deck OLED
- DF refuses to have the conversation about value vs performance for the PS5 Pro by doing comparisons with similarly priced PC hardware
- DF refuses to compare the PS5 Pro and XSX in head to head comparisons and will only do head to head with PS5 or high priced PCs
- Alex was caught on a discord talking about how to diminish the PS5 against the XSX with others
- Alex has written about his dislike of Sony PC Ports not because they aren't competent but because they aren't going above and beyond the PS5 Pro
- Thinking that a 50 dollar port of a 5 year old game needs to have the amenities of a 70 dollar new release is wild
If none of that suggests a level of bias from DF against Sony, I'm not sure what to tell you. I could go on and on with evidence of DF's biases, but it's clear as day. You have within DF some PC fanboys, some xbox/sega fanboys, many of whom are simply upset that Sony came out on top in the console space. They make their money through console war and platform war BS and they obviously take a lot of sponsorship money which alone should have people doubt their credibility.
I'll be the first person to say the PS5 Pro isn't perfect. I think I gave it about a 7/10 and with this VRR bug that might drop it down to a 6/10 for me, but the game that DF is playing is bad journalism and it should be called out.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Agree 100% it looks like they did a fine job porting the game and relatively quickly.
That being said, they made a laughable choice making this game first-person. It's interesting because it's not like Microsoft picked this game. MachineGames started this before Microsoft bought Zenimax. It's not like Microsoft said, hey we want our Uncharted. Normally MachineGames would not have been the company to make this game. Certainly not a first choice. They specialize in FPS, so this is an FPS. After Microsoft got involved the comparisons to Uncharted grew, but it's not like you can just retool a game as 3rd person overnight.
Similarly, if Cyberpunk had a true 3rd person mode, I feel as though it would have been a significantly bigger hit than it already was, but making games 3rd person actually requires way more work.
MacReady13
Member
For a game that was ported in less than a year, this is a fair effort I'd say!
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
There is nothing to suggest that is true here. The system has a bigger GPU, is significantly better at RT and has AI upscaling.
By just increasing input resolution to a near native 4K, the developers have ignored what makes the system tick.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
The lower limit is almost an anecdote because most of the time it is at much higher resolutions or at the upper limit..... especially during pure gameplay.
Especially because calling this "shit port" when it's better or no worse than many many other ports already released that don't even come close to this level of polish and performance is... well, let's just call it "curious"
I think its amazing what the xbox series x can achieve with like 40 to 50 Watts less power draw than the ps5 or ps5 pro.
I think its interesting that consoles never really get discussed with power envelopes but the series x is deffo one efficiently designed machine.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
There is a major variance in efforts towards PS5 pro builds academically that in itself is interesting.
Whether someone uses PSSR or a custom upscaling solution or simply relies on previous upscaling techniques and up the resolution. If they make use of the RT enhancements in the PS5 Pro. Where they make use of the extra CPU breathing room.
I think it is DF that has been truly lazy when it comes to the PS5 Pro.
We should be getting a better understanding of why some developers are making certain decisions with PS5 pro and how that might inform console game development in the future, especially when it comes to using ML Upscalers.
This is the biggest problem with DF's framing bias. We're actually missing a huge opportunity to see how much PSSR costs a game and what the benefits are. Meanwhile, they gloss over similar imperfections on other platforms.
Fabieter
Member
Maybe they were ready by December and just delayed the port.
Bojji
Member
And adding PSSR and calling it a day isn't lazy or low effort now? This is exactly what ND did with TLoU and SM with GOWR. This is no different than adding FSR/DLSS/XeSS, small patch is enough.
Indiana Jones is using cheap TAA technique to reach 4K so adding PSSR for example would lower base resolution. End effect could be better but there is no guarantee with RTGI in play.
Of course we all want to see high effort ports/patches, something like added RT in performance mode in Callisto, same story with gameplay RT in GT7, quality mode settings in performance mode in KCD2, more RT options like in Insomniac games etc.
But sadly most Pro versions will end up with low effort ports because install base is super small. This is not much different than PS4 Pro situation, Naughty Dog just increased resolution to 1440p and that's it... They are super lazy when it comes to this, I would say more lazy than machine games.
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Fabieter
Member
I would rather see this as future proving the same ways devs are doing on pc. So Its not a good looking if they delay a port even if it's just slightly to sell it for 80 bucks in Europe and don't go the extra mile. Is it the end of the world? No! But it deserves flak for being lazy.
You are right about ND tho.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
You're not entirely wrong here, but your assessment that adding PSSR is lazy is a bit bonkers here.
It's not a simple check box. You have to QA all the visuals, you have to find a native resolution that still works and still maintains the framerates you want... and in many cases with older games it means updating to a newer SDK.
You're criticizing ND here, but do ou think resource management suggests doing tremendous amounts of work on a game that re-released in 2022? You have no sense of realism there.
You're also focusing on old games or games that haven't had much development time since the PS5 Pro launched. There is a big difference between the PS5 Pro and PS4 Pro. It's not like there was a system level checkerboard rendering solution on PS4 pro, it just had more power than the base PS4. As PSSR matures and as more games are built with it in mind, the PS5 Pro ports will improve.
Bojji
Member
Adding PSSR is less lazy than just leaving resolution and framerate unlocked (this happens as well) but for sure it can't be called hard work, maybe time consuming because of QA.
In the case of Naughty Dog, they just literally used the same resolution they used for PS4 Pro... Just added reconstruction element to the engine - and this was already done in PC version of part 1 with FSR2 and DLSS. This is ND porting their games to PRO consoles:
Machine games had to port entire game to console that they never developed for. Other than that game was probably just losing money so far so I doubt MS gave them big budget to do this port. Price of the game is ridiculous on PS5 and I fully agree with that, after all this time it shouldn't be more than 50$...
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Naughty Dog gets shit on because they haven't released more content on PS5 and you think they should be spending more time sprucing up PS5 Pro games? And in what way? TLOUP1 Remake doesn't use RT. So what else should they have done exactly?
Sony is taking a page out of Nintendo's book (and it's not a good book) when it comes to their pricing, but I also understand they're trying to recover from the initial game release probably not meeting expectations and the popularity of the show gives them a second chance at things. TLOUP2 is climbing on PSN as is TLOU Complete (which is 100 dollars for a game from 2013 and 2020).
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Wait, you are defending sonys most prestigious studio because they are busy working so it's ok for them to do shit ps5 pro ports?
Sonys first party should be the MAIN studios showing what the ps5 pro can do.
No excuses.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
First off, it's not a port. Second, what makes it shit? Explain. What should they have done differently?
Nothing you wrote here makes any sense.
The PS5 Pro has 3 tiers. Increased GPU, Enhanced RTX, and PSSR.
Naughty Dog games don't use RTX, so they made use of the bigger GPU and PSSR. So again, I'l ask what should they have done here? What makes their upgrades shitty? Everyone who has actually played TLOUP1 and P2 on PS5 Pro praises them as some of the best looking PS5 Pro games.
You're full of it.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
And you are overly aggressive. You are literally giving sonys studios free pass on ps5 pro patches when it's their job to sell the system and use its features.
As long as you keep that same energy for every studio releasing ps5 pro ports then I guess it's fine, but if you ever call a studio lazy or anything else for just simply bumping the resolution or doing the bare minimum then you are clearly a hypocrit and I will no longer take any of your opinions or statements seriously.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Can you tell us what ND should have done differently?
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
See how people give up the game when they can't answer simple questions?
If a studio implements PSSR or an equivalent solution, I'm not going to call their implementation lazy, unless they've done a poor job with PSSR or the equivalent solution.
Even games that include RTX enhancements, I generally don't care about them because I'm likely to play in performance mode for the higher frame rates. So, that just seems like a bonus.
That said, I'm not expecting games that didn't have RT to magically add RT just for PS5 Pro. Maybe if the PC version had RT.
Fortuneelsewhere
Member
I'm yet to see a PS5 Pro game that really push me to buy one.. the grunt advantage is minuscule but I was hopping for greater RT implementations or at least PSSR to properly work.. Truth be told PSSR is improving from launch but it have very high time rendering cost offsetting frame rate gains… nevertheless im still hopping to see meaningful results in DS2 and Ghost of Yotey.. let's see how it goes…
Zathalus
Member
I'm not really sure what else they could have done with the Pro version of the game. The boost to resolution is more or less in-line with the GPU and RT upgrades. Lowering the resolution for PSSR could have freed up GPU resources but the issue with that is that the really transformative RT features of the game are likely still too heavy for the Pro to be worth the resolution hit. Being mostly native 4K/60fps with RTGI is perfectly fine.