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[Kinthalis]

The more I see Ryse on PC comparisons, the more I think that game looks better than The Order, even if that's a subjective decision, you cna't argue witht he difference in complexity in much of the scenes.

Ryse is just handling scenes with a LOT more complexity than the Order.

 

[HowZatOZ]

My question is when will we see this quality of animation and graphical fidelity replicated, and will developers need to prioritise it like RAD? I don't think we'll be getting a 60FPS game with the graphical quality of The Order anytime soon, but I do wonder if a game like The Order could be made at 30FPS focusing on more open-world gameplay aspects, or just for gameplay mechanics in general.

Would that be too much that the graphical fidelity would suffer?

 

[Alo0oy]

I wonder how what SSM contributed on this game technically.. Their next game or other 1st party games might be as good looking as 1886 or even top it if RaD shares their magic to other studios as well.

But i hope they don't follow RaD on "replayability" on their games. (not sure of the correct term)

SSM are only publishing the game, they had no hand in developing it.

But given how talented they are, it's almost a given that the best looking game this gen will come out of their internal studio.

 

[Oppo]

The more I see Ryse on PC comparisons, the more I think that game looks better than The Order, even if that's a subjective decision, you cna't argue witht he difference in complexity in much of the scenes.

Ryse is just handling scenes with a LOT more complexity than the Order.

example?

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

Check my post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=152763725&postcount=157


But The Order analysis is also not full. It is just performance preview.
Full article will also be done by John Linneman and published this weekend
Have You even read it?

Jeeez these df conspiracy theorists are insane. I can't believe what I'm reading. It's a knock out here showing comments against a Microsoft exclusive yet they refuse it. Some people on here. Wow.

 

[nelsonroyale]

example?

Yeah, Ryse doesn't really have scenes where you are fighting against huge amounts of enemies. In motion I think the difference is clear. Even on PC the Order is a better looking game overall.

 

[icecold1983]

the order is superior to ryse

http://www.gamersyde.com/leech_34085_1_en.html

ive never seen shading and lighting of such a high quality in any other released title

 

[Dragonborn]

The more I see Ryse on PC comparisons, the more I think that game looks better than The Order, even if that's a subjective decision, you cna't argue witht he difference in complexity in much of the scenes.

Ryse is just handling scenes with a LOT more complexity than the Order.

How about you provide some examples or something, to show what you mean. Because I'm not seeing it.

 

[i-Lo]

Sounds good; that engine is the best salvageable (and usable) portion of the game.

Also, DF's subjective assertions are getting a tad tiresome.

 

[Daingurse]

How about you provide some examples or something, to show what you mean. Because I'm not seeing it.

I got Ryse on PC and find it to be extremely impressive looking, but yeah I don't see it either. The Order impresses me more visually, based on what I've seen.

 

[nelsonroyale]

the order is superior to ryse

http://www.gamersyde.com/leech_34085_1_en.html

ive never seen shading and lighting of such a high quality in any other released title

See this just looks...like what I wanted current gen games to look like. Yeah, we still have a ways to go, but this looks convincing, consistent, coherent.

 

[Permanently A]

I hope I can buy it on the cheap later on just to see how good it looks. Hopefully RAD doesn't lose money and can go on to make a good game with their tech. I'm sure they can do it; their psp God of Wars were really fun to play and incredibly technically impressive.

 

[Seanspeed]

The more I see Ryse on PC comparisons, the more I think that game looks better than The Order, even if that's a subjective decision, you cna't argue witht he difference in complexity in much of the scenes.

Ryse is just handling scenes with a LOT more complexity than the Order.

I don't think you really believe that.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The fact that a dev coming from PSP origins is beating the fuck out of a high end PC developer in its prime graphics field is hilarious to me. Of course Crytek were working with weaker hardware with Ryse...but from what i see here, even the PC version doesn't compare.

The shaders and material tech RAD were working with is just insane(you should see some of the slides) Now next time hopefully they can make that into a game and not a tech demo.

 

[The Last One]

The more I see Ryse on PC comparisons, the more I think that game looks better than The Order, even if that's a subjective decision, you cna't argue witht he difference in complexity in much of the scenes.

Ryse is just handling scenes with a LOT more complexity than the Order.

Aren't the scenes from Ryse pre recorded?

 

[Inuhanyou]

Aren't the scenes from Ryse pre recorded?

Many of the more demanding scenes are, there are also a lot of less taxing scenes that are real time though based on what i've seen gameplaywise

 

[The Last One]

Many of the more demanding scenes are, there are also a lot of less taxing scenes that are real time though based on what i've seen gameplaywise

Ah I see, so he's talking about the ones not pre recorded.

 

[i-Lo]

The more I see Ryse on PC comparisons, the more I think that game looks better than The Order, even if that's a subjective decision, you cna't argue witht he difference in complexity in much of the scenes.

Ryse is just handling scenes with a LOT more complexity than the Order.

You must have gone with analytic tools and seen the wireframe composites of both games then to come to such conclusion.

I am also wondering what's the point of bringing Ryse on PC, no less, for comparison. Ryse is undoubtedly a great looking game, however.

Anyway, I think it's time for my ignore list to grow by one more.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Ah I see, so he's talking about the ones not pre recorded.

I am not sure if he is talking about any ones. There are really scenes of massive complexity in Ryse either. There are quite a few foes on screen, but you can see the same in the Order. Really, the games are highly comparable in their approach. I just think the Order is the next step.

 

[b0bbyJ03]

the order is superior to ryse

http://www.gamersyde.com/leech_34085_1_en.html

ive never seen shading and lighting of such a high quality in any other released title

Holy shit, that's the first time i've actually seen gameplay footage. def the best looking game ive seen. as a whole, the way it comes together im not sure ryse is as good.

 

[Seanspeed]

The fact that a dev coming from PSP origins is beating the fuck out of a high end PC developer in its prime graphics field is hilarious to me. Of course Crytek were working with weaker hardware with Ryse...but from what i see here, even the PC version doesn't compare.

The game was already done when it came to PC. It was just a port and was built with XB1 in mind and was also a launch title.

I'm sure you do find it 'hilarious', though.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

The fact that a dev coming from PSP origins is beating the fuck out of a high end PC developer in its prime graphics field is hilarious to me. Of course Crytek were working with weaker hardware with Ryse...but from what i see here, even the PC version doesn't compare.

The shaders and material tech RAD were working with is just insane(you should see some of the slides) Now next time hopefully they can make that into a game and not a tech demo.

Considering what they had to do to achieve the visuals and the other things that got sacrificed, I'm not surprised the Order looks as it does.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think the most interesting thing to come out of this 1886 debacle is that RAD accomplished the dream of graphics programmers everywhere. They successfully simulated CG lite in an actual shippable product that the player can control for themselves on Playstation 4. Low to mid range hardware at that!

The implications of their efforts go far beyond the order and into the realm of other PS4 games and the future of graphics as DF says, what they can achieve when the developer pours enough resources into the visual aspect. Sure you can say "well that's only for limited games at this stage". That's true.

BUT, imagine for example, a fighter with that kind of fidelity. outside of the limited stages, there isn't much to render outside of two characters. The adherence to 60fps is only going to limit you so much. If a fighting game dev today for example coded their own engine specifically to go to for the CGI look the same way RAD has with 1886, we'd be in a whole nother realm of visuals than the obvious "video gamey" look we've been seeing since the dawn of 3D graphics and pixels.

The possibilities and potential are just mouth watering.

Unfortunately budgetary and financial realities are a thing.

 

[funkystudent]

Spoiler

This post is presented to you in a Cinematic aspect ratio for some dumb reason

Outside of the black bars which are a unforgivable crime the engine seems solid. I hope RAD gets another shit but I can see Sony dropping them like they did with NT after Heavenly Sword last gen.
Also Leadbetter's opinions getting shoehorned into what is mean to be a technical analysis are bordering in parody these days. Dude lays it on a little tick.

Spoiler

This post is presented to you in a Cinematic aspect ratio[ for some dumb reason

 

[GhostTrick]

The game was already done when it came to PC. It was just a port and was built with XB1 in mind and was also a launch title.

I'm sure you do find it 'hilarious', though.

I wonder how Ryse would look with black bars and film grain. I think that The Order looks is also due to good post processing.

I think the most interesting thing to come out of this 1886 debacle is that RAD accomplished the dream of graphics programmers everywhere. They successfully simulated CG lite in an actual shippable product that the player can control for themselves on Playstation 4. Low to mid range hardware at that!

The implications of their efforts go far beyond the order and into the realm of other PS4 games and the future of graphics as DF says, what they can achieve when the developer pours enough resources into the visual aspect. Sure you can say "well that's only for limited games at this stage". That's true.

BUT, imagine for example, a fighter with that kind of fidelity. outside of the limited stages, there isn't much to render outside of two characters. The adherence to 60fps is only going to limit you so much. If a fighting game dev today for example coded their own engine specifically to go to for the CGI look the same way RAD has with 1886, we'd be in a whole nother realm of visuals than the obvious "video gamey" look we've been seeing since the dawn of 3D graphics and pixels.

The possibilities and potential are just mouth watering.

Unfortunately budgetary and financial realities are a thing.

Then again, I think that CGI look can mainly be attributed to the film grain and post processing. I don't think you can apply that to other games because of such specific context.

 

[Dictator93]

I wonder how Ryse would look with black bars and film grain. I think that The Order looks is also due to good post processing.

Baked lighting, like in AC:U or the Order in comparison to Ryse, does quite a lot to make scenes convincing as long as they are static.

Hence why people really like some of the UE4 architectural vizualizations floating around.

 

[mckmas8808]

How do they "know" that the gameplay was hit due to the graphics being so good?

 

[impact]

So new best looking game? I feel like this deserves a redbox just so I can see my PS4 shit on my PC that cost over twice as much. But 50% cutscenes sounds awful :|

 

[Inuhanyou]

The game was already done when it came to PC. It was just a port and was built with XB1 in mind and was also a launch title.

I'm sure you do find it 'hilarious', though.

That's what i acknowledged in my post there. They were indeed working with more limited hardware. But its what i've always said about crytek. Its more impressive when you can do things shackled than when you have all the resources given to you, such as any kind of hardware imaginable.

For crytek, its always made sense to me they would be lauded for graphics but i never understood why they were praised as talented at it. They can go as high as they want and base their tech around anything, that's obviously why they can have prettier graphics. than anyone else.

Now someone like CD project red, who can successfully bring their tech down to hardware like 360 and still have it work fine are the true geniuses. What Crytek brought down could barely even play half the time,and they ended up compromising their own works in the process.

 

[icecold1983]

I wonder how Ryse would look with black bars and film grain. I think that The Order looks is also due to good post processing.








Then again, I think that CGI look can mainly be attributed to the film grain and post processing. I don't think you can apply that to other games because of such specific context.

So basically slap on film grain and post processing and you have the order quality
visuals? So easy, makes me wonder why all these other developers havent figured this out. Reshade FTW!!?

 

[mejin]

The more I see Ryse on PC comparisons, the more I think that game looks better than The Order, even if that's a subjective decision, you cna't argue witht he difference in complexity in much of the scenes.

Ryse is just handling scenes with a LOT more complexity than the Order.

 

[GhostTrick]

So basically slap on film grain and post processing and you have the order quality
visuals? So easy, makes me wonder why all these other developers havent figured this out. Reshade FTW!!?

It's not that easy. It's a combination of subtle elements such as this. I didn't said The Order only rely on this. But I think it heavily contributes to its look.

 

[Seanspeed]

I think the most interesting thing to come out of this 1886 debacle is that RAD accomplished the dream of graphics programmers everywhere. They successfully simulated CG lite in an actual shippable product that the player can control for themselves on Playstation 4. Low to mid range hardware at that!

The implications of their efforts go far beyond the order and into the realm of other PS4 games and the future of graphics as DF says, what they can achieve when the developer pours enough resources into the visual aspect. Sure you can say "well that's only for limited games at this stage". That's true.

BUT, imagine for example, a fighter with that kind of fidelity. outside of the limited stages, there isn't much to render outside of two characters. The adherence to 60fps is only going to limit you so much. If a fighting game dev today for example coded their own engine specifically to go to for the CGI look the same way RAD has with 1886, we'd be in a whole nother realm of visuals than the obvious "video gamey" look we've been seeing since the dawn of 3D graphics and pixels.

The possibilities and potential are just mouth watering.

Unfortunately budgetary and financial realities are a thing.

This game was likely designed from the ground up to be a visual showcase and little else. Much like Ryse was. I don't think any milestone has really been breached here and practical limitations will come right back in, especially with multiplatform development.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Did anybody watch any CG movies in the last decade or so?

Have we really lost the definition of just what "computer generated" graphics really look like?

 

[SerTapTap]

It is a performance analysis yet they needed to harp on the 'cinematic' gameplay?

They always have a stupid "but actually it's about ethics this was all bullshit and gameplay durr" one-liner to all their analyses lately. I really don't know why, it's never insightful or useful. Wish they'd stop as otherwise DF is one of very few places to find someone actually focusing on technical aspects.

 

[i-Lo]

Spoiler

This post is presented to you in a Cinematic aspect ratio for some dumb reason

Outside of the black bars which are a unforgivable crime the engine seems solid. I hope RAD gets another shit but I can see Sony dropping them like they did with NT after Heavenly Sword last gen.
Also Leadbetter's opinions getting shoehorned technical analysis are bordering in parody these days. Dude lays it on a little tick.

Spoiler

This post is presented to you in a Cinematic aspect ratio[ for some dumb reason

Indeed. And this isn't the first time either. I remember doing reports in college (and even now) where an analysis is bereft of personal opinion on the matter which, more so, has nothing to do with the subject on which the analysis is being done (technical). It also stands in stark contrast to John Linneman's articles which keeps this to a minimum (BF Hardline and Drying Light).

 

[Seanspeed]

That's what i acknowledged in my post there. They were indeed working with more limited hardware. But its what i've always said about crytek. Its more impressive when you can do things shackled than when you have all the resources given to you, such as any kind of hardware imaginable.

For crytek, its always made sense to me they would be lauded for graphics but i never understood why they were praised as talented at it. They can go as high as they want and base their tech around anything, that's obviously why they can have prettier graphics. than anyone else.

Now someone like CD project red, who can successfully bring their tech down to hardware like 360 and still have it work fine are the true geniuses. What Crytek brought down could barely even play half the time,and they ended up compromising their own works in the process.

You said they were working with more limited hardware, and then added a 'but' to it. Lets not pretend that didn't happen. If you realize that Ryse was built entirely for the XB1, as a launch title, I don't see what's hilarious, nor do you seem to be acknowledging that Ryse was a stunning showcase title even despite this, leaving Crytek to be fully deserving of their talented reputation.

I think you're just getting a little too excited with your smugness here.

 

[dead monkey uk]

Gotta find a way to get this discounted. My PS4 needs a good workout right about now.

Are you in the UK? http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/order-1886-ps4-game-very-under-30-with-groupon-voucher-below-2147175

£30 and you will get close to this when you trade it in a weeks later.

 

[Inuhanyou]

This game was likely designed from the ground up to be a visual showcase and little else. Much like Ryse was. I don't think any milestone has really been breached here and practical limitations will come right back in, especially with multiplatform development.

That's a bit of an assumption. We can definitely say they put their graphics engine first above all else, but i do feel there is room for that kind of fidelity in an actual 'game' that is good, no matter how limited the scope is. My favorite example Metroid prime, was always only a series of differently decorated single rooms that were swapped in an out as soon as you left one. I think its down to the developer to make something out of that limited resource.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I wonder how Ryse would look with black bars and film grain. I think that The Order looks is also due to good post processing.








Then again, I think that CGI look can mainly be attributed to the film grain and post processing. I don't think you can apply that to other games because of such specific context.

How it look on Xbox? Its already rendering at a lower res than this and runs worse...So nope. On PC its not a factor. Hardcore PCs can probably tank Ryse.

 

[Wabba]

The Order looks out of this world. Everything is so perfectly created, the scene and the effects looks so real. Really sets a new bar, and i seriously doubt that its going to be matched or beaten in a long time.

 

[Seanspeed]

That's a bit of an assumption. We can definitely say they put their graphics engine first above all else, but i do feel there is room for that kind of fidelity in an actual 'game' that is good, no matter how limited the scope is. My favorite example Metroid prime, was always only a series of differently decorated single rooms that were swapped in an out as soon as you left one. I think its down to the developer to make something out of that limited resource.

A pretty safe assumption, I think.

 

[rambis]

Are you in the UK? http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/order-1886-ps4-game-very-under-30-with-groupon-voucher-below-2147175

£30 and you will get close to this when you trade it in a weeks later.

Italia

Will this work for there, I'm on a phone with bad reception?

 

[Inuhanyou]

You said they were working with more limited hardware, and then added a 'but' to it. Lets not pretend that didn't happen. If you realize that Ryse was built entirely for the XB1, as a launch title, I don't see what's hilarious, nor do you seem to be acknowledging that Ryse was a stunning showcase title even despite this, leaving Crytek to be fully deserving of their talented reputation.

I think you're just getting a little too excited with your smugness here.

I found it hilarious cause RAD are coming from PSP, Crytek are the highest levels of PC game development, them being bested is still funny to me, it just proves they arent really that talented at working with different configurations out of their safe zone. Then again, i think Silent hill 3 could beat a lot of PS3 games in terms of character modeling.




I never really was that impressed with Ryse. I thought it was fine that they could make a game look like that, but i wasn't really wowed by the visuals at launch for 'next gen graphics' as much as i was when i saw 1886's first trailer, which i thought was a CG trailer at first.

I guess it was because Ryse still had the 'video gamey' look, you could still see polygonal edges and rought spots depending on where you were in the game world, and on top of that there were a lot of prerecorded videos which left me cold about it. Games like Bayonetta and Bungie Halo which were all real time all the time were far more impressive cause they showed what the hardware could do.

Anyone can make a nice movie, upload it as a file to a bluray and call it a day (looking at you Uncharted/TLOU/LANoire/FF13). The limits of the engine and hardware are really stressed when you can play things by ear and have it run acceptably. That's what impresses me about real time graphics rendering.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Er, i never really was that impressed with Ryse. I thought it was fine that they could make a game look like that, but i wasn't really wowed by the visuals at launch for 'next gen graphics' as much as i was when i saw 1886's first trailer, which i thought was a CG trailer at first.

I guess it was because Ryse still had the 'video gamey' look, you could still see polygonal edges and rought spots depending on where you were in the game world, and on top of that there were a lot of prerecorded videos which left me cold about it. Games like Bayonetta and Bungie Halo which were all real time all the time were far more impressive cause they showed what the hardware could do.

Anyone can make a nice movie, upload it as a file to a bluray and call it a day (looking at you Uncharted/TLOU/LANoire/FF13). The limits of the engine and hardware are really stressed when you can play things by ear and have it run acceptably. That's what impresses me about real time graphics rendering.

The graphics if the Order would be far more impressive to me if the 500K black pixels being shoehorned into inactivity in the bars were actually being used. Uncharted, Killzone, DriveClub, and Infamous are all proof that you can have a damn good looking game at full res.

The Order, again, makes sacrifices on the technical front to achieve it's "CG lite," as you phrase it, appearance. And in the end, can you truly say it was worth it?

 

[R_Deckard]

The more I see Ryse on PC comparisons, the more I think that game looks better than The Order, even if that's a subjective decision, you cna't argue witht he difference in complexity in much of the scenes.

Ryse is just handling scenes with a LOT more complexity than the Order.

Seriously you can and your wrong and trying just too hard.

The Order, again, makes sacrifices on the technical front to achieve it's "CG lite," as you phrase it, appearance. And in the end, can you truly say it was worth it?

It doesn't, the aspect and FOV are clearly a design choice from the ground up, you are basing your opinion in never even playing the game at all, ridiculous and like many posts in here and other threads reaching and baseless. In answer to your question Yes totally worth it and the amount if frantic scrabbling by "some" to downplay a game they have no interest in vindicates it even more.

Having played on high end PC and consoles for years I can say that this game impresses and moves the level on like no other game thus far, RaD's engine and work is simply incredible and I have enjoyed the game (faults as well) immensely.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The graphics if the Order would be far more impressive to me if the 500K black pixels being shoehorned into inactivity in the bars were actually being used. Uncharted, Killzone, DriveClub, and Infamous are all proof that you can have a damn good looking game at full res.

The Order, again, makes sacrifices on the technical front to achieve it's "CG lite," as you phrase it, appearance. And in the end, can you truly say it was worth it?

But the trade off was intentional. It had nothing to do with the actual graphics being presented. Pessino himself said that they could have done full 1080p had they gone with something less taxing than 4xMSAA. They were only loosing a few hundred pixels in one direction as it was.

I wonder what the game would have looked like if they had gone for something like FHD with 2xMSAA and FXAA combination, or SMAA even.

I know that with Agni, as you get higher in pixel density you need more aliasing to cover up deformities(SE had to go to 8xMSAA+FXAA just to stop the hair dithering based on one of their Agni Luminous engine slides, and that was for a model over a million poly's). Its really interesting stuff.

 

[Clarkus Darkus]

To be fair the visuals alone made me want this game, FF spirits within all them years ago was simply a dream to be able to have those type of CGI visuals ingame. And now we finally do, In a £300 console aswell!

I think when the review thread gets near 6000 posts in one day then it takes precedant over how astounding the achievement is R&D made regardling visuals.

30FPS solid throughout is fine by me also, But man my only nitpick is the black borders, Didnt take my enjoyment away from Dragons Dogma and Resi 4, But still would prefer the whole screen.

 

[Dictator93]

Seriously you can and your wrong and trying just too hard.

There is a serious argument to be put forward in terms of dynamism (and hence how technically advanced or impressive something is) regarding the Order's graphics. Much like how a similar argument can be brought up against any game that chooses to use baked lighting conditions.

There are obvious draw backs and positives that will come more into light as the DF analysis is presented. For the mean time, I highly recommend people to just relax. That is unless you have some direct feed screeens you want to share or want to engage in discussion beyond "this looks the best" "no this looks the best."

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

The more I see Ryse on PC comparisons, the more I think that game looks better than The Order, even if that's a subjective decision, you cna't argue witht he difference in complexity in much of the scenes.

Ryse is just handling scenes with a LOT more complexity than the Order.

This may be true, I dropped Ryse too quickly though. But I think in pure art direction the Order nails it to a cross. The color palette and just the way everything moves in the game is fantastic.