SonicXtreme
Member
I wish there were more object terrain physics like people said. Sometimes a little rock of bush won't get run over when it really really should
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DiRT Rally is available on Steam Early Access
- Thread starter crimsonheadGCN
- Start date
OK so I played for about half an hour last night (late so I didn't have a chance to hook up my Fanatec CSR) and played with a 360 game pad.
Hard as balls! Handling/physics are no joke. My car was a trash heap by the time I finished each course.
My overall impressions so far
The good:
- Excellent lighting
- Great physics
- Strong car and track selection
- No visible cardboard crowds (if they're in there, I never noticed)
- Awesome sound
- Dirt plumes behind the car look incredible. Hooray for no 2D sprites popping out of thin air behind the wheels!
The bad:
- The 2D tree sprites are FAR too repetitive. It's like there's only one of them just copy/pasted all over the hills/landscape. Surely more variety can be added.
- No tire tracks in the dirt/mud?? Rallysport Challenge had this 13 years ago. There's no excuse for this not being implemented into this game.
- No 3d modeled springs/suspension bits. This is terrible and hopefully just a place holder, especially for when you've got high probability of ripping a body panel up and exposing these parts.
- Incomplete damage model system it seems. Flipping my car half a dozen times should not result in a pristine roof and rear wing still attached. A much more robust damage/panel crumple and body parts removal system is badly needed. I want my car to look like hell if I've driven it like it.
https://youtu.be/8sP0zfud1Kw
If this is car-speific meaning that it's simply something that hasn't been fully implemented yet for each car (like this Fiesta ST) then disregard... but having a car that is almost totally unrecognizable crossing the finish is something that I really want.
All of that said, here are the things I want that I currently don't see. This is just my own personal wish list if I could be the one checking all the boxes of what I want from the game.
- Steam workshop support (custom liveries, car setups, texture mods, etc)
- Full control over the weather. While I appreciate the choices we currently have, I want the option to specifically set if it's raining or thunder storm or clear, foggy, day, night, etc
Project Cars IMO is setting the new standard for this and I've been spoiled by it.
Accelerated day/night cycle would be nice as well.
- More dense crowds!! The courses, for the most part, feel barren and lifeless. I know that track assets are usually on the back burner of things to do since they're really not that important to the core game functioning but it makes a HUGE difference on the atmosphere of the racing environment to me.
I want this!
And I want them in the middle of the track getting out of the way as I drive through!
With this game potentially being PC only and if not, new consoles only as well, I feel like there is a lot more that can be added to the game visually. The fact that my basic GTX 750 and 4770k can run everything at ultra and maintain 45~50 fps @ 1080p tells me that you guys are being extremely conservative with the graphics here. YES for the most part, it does look good but there is still a lot of stuff like higher resolution vegetation, higher density crowds, more detailed cars/parts, tesselated rocks and stones in the ground surface, etc that I feel like could/should be implemented if at all possible.
Also, I didnt pay attention but the amazing grass tech used in Grid Autosport would be a great addition as well as adding foliage/debris sprites when hitting bushes and other track side vegetation.
If the current limitations are due to the old engine the game is using, that's one thing (and slightly disappointing but I guess it is what it is) but if it's been a design decision be it just wanting to focus more man hours on other things instead of the stuff I mentioned or something like that, then I hope some of this stuff gets added if it's being considered and if it hasn't been considered, then hopefully I'm not alone in wanting some of this stuff and others will speak up and get the attention of the devs.
A truly great sim rally game is long overdue and with games like Forza and Project cars delivering stunning levels of detail @ 60fps on consoles, I really want to see this game match that level of quality if possible.
Anyways, some pics (lowest AA setting, everything else ultra)
Hard as balls! Handling/physics are no joke. My car was a trash heap by the time I finished each course.
My overall impressions so far
The good:
- Excellent lighting
- Great physics
- Strong car and track selection
- No visible cardboard crowds (if they're in there, I never noticed)
- Awesome sound
- Dirt plumes behind the car look incredible. Hooray for no 2D sprites popping out of thin air behind the wheels!
The bad:
- The 2D tree sprites are FAR too repetitive. It's like there's only one of them just copy/pasted all over the hills/landscape. Surely more variety can be added.
- No tire tracks in the dirt/mud?? Rallysport Challenge had this 13 years ago. There's no excuse for this not being implemented into this game.
- No 3d modeled springs/suspension bits. This is terrible and hopefully just a place holder, especially for when you've got high probability of ripping a body panel up and exposing these parts.
- Incomplete damage model system it seems. Flipping my car half a dozen times should not result in a pristine roof and rear wing still attached. A much more robust damage/panel crumple and body parts removal system is badly needed. I want my car to look like hell if I've driven it like it.
https://youtu.be/8sP0zfud1Kw
If this is car-speific meaning that it's simply something that hasn't been fully implemented yet for each car (like this Fiesta ST) then disregard... but having a car that is almost totally unrecognizable crossing the finish is something that I really want.
All of that said, here are the things I want that I currently don't see. This is just my own personal wish list if I could be the one checking all the boxes of what I want from the game.
- Steam workshop support (custom liveries, car setups, texture mods, etc)
- Full control over the weather. While I appreciate the choices we currently have, I want the option to specifically set if it's raining or thunder storm or clear, foggy, day, night, etc
Project Cars IMO is setting the new standard for this and I've been spoiled by it.
Accelerated day/night cycle would be nice as well.
- More dense crowds!! The courses, for the most part, feel barren and lifeless. I know that track assets are usually on the back burner of things to do since they're really not that important to the core game functioning but it makes a HUGE difference on the atmosphere of the racing environment to me.
I want this!
And I want them in the middle of the track getting out of the way as I drive through!
With this game potentially being PC only and if not, new consoles only as well, I feel like there is a lot more that can be added to the game visually. The fact that my basic GTX 750 and 4770k can run everything at ultra and maintain 45~50 fps @ 1080p tells me that you guys are being extremely conservative with the graphics here. YES for the most part, it does look good but there is still a lot of stuff like higher resolution vegetation, higher density crowds, more detailed cars/parts, tesselated rocks and stones in the ground surface, etc that I feel like could/should be implemented if at all possible.
Also, I didnt pay attention but the amazing grass tech used in Grid Autosport would be a great addition as well as adding foliage/debris sprites when hitting bushes and other track side vegetation.
If the current limitations are due to the old engine the game is using, that's one thing (and slightly disappointing but I guess it is what it is) but if it's been a design decision be it just wanting to focus more man hours on other things instead of the stuff I mentioned or something like that, then I hope some of this stuff gets added if it's being considered and if it hasn't been considered, then hopefully I'm not alone in wanting some of this stuff and others will speak up and get the attention of the devs.
A truly great sim rally game is long overdue and with games like Forza and Project cars delivering stunning levels of detail @ 60fps on consoles, I really want to see this game match that level of quality if possible.
Anyways, some pics (lowest AA setting, everything else ultra)
There are reasons why Group B was banned and spectator positions made much, much more strict. Obviously this is trying to simulate the real world and currently in real WRC events, people don't just stand on the track unlike back in Group B or even Gr. A times.
I don't really see any need for accelerated time of day, as stages being around 7-9 minutess or 3-5minutes do not nearly enough warrant it. It doesn't happen IRL so why it should here.
There are a lot of things still to be worked on, mainly on the physics side but also with some other features like having possibly tire tracks being left on the road (not sure if this actually means anything though because they won't be when you do the stage reverse. Not seeing how that would be possible with this engine).
I don't really see any need for accelerated time of day, as stages being around 7-9 minutess or 3-5minutes do not nearly enough warrant it. It doesn't happen IRL so why it should here.
There are a lot of things still to be worked on, mainly on the physics side but also with some other features like having possibly tire tracks being left on the road (not sure if this actually means anything though because they won't be when you do the stage reverse. Not seeing how that would be possible with this engine).
So as I have had some time with my DFGT wheel and this game, I am beginning to feel that the first 2" of the steering wheel travel is too sensitive. I mean if I had a track that was only 4, 5 or 6 turns I could drive it without moving the wheel more that 2" either direction. I have messed with all the advanced wheel settings and cant get this to require more movement. It doesnt feel realistic and causes me alot of oversteer when trying to correct my facing.
Anybody got any ideas or have the same opinion?
Anybody got any ideas or have the same opinion?
Betta Lines
Member
If you watch my video on the previous page, I run a full stage with my steering wheel in view. The steering settings are at default (saturation 100%, linearity 0) and set to 540 rotation in the driver. That should be fine, although if you still want it less sensitive, you can always make the rotation higher.
halopower67
Member
All I want is this game with fantastic terrain deformation. I think this game is going great so far, but i really hope they add to the terrain deformation and how that affects the car. Apart from this, i really don't know what else they could add to this game other than just more content and polish.
WarlockTheWise
Member
There is definitely room for them to improve the graphics. They can do better than a slightly more polished dirt 3, which itself was a more polished dirt 2.
SonicXtreme
Member
dash cam (idk what to call it, not driver cam, but the other one with the windshield in front of you) is SOOOO GOOOOD agh i can't triple monitor but i have a 60" tv and it rocks. so glad i can use it now that the codriver calls work.
zephervack
Member
Yeah but the insane track side crowds back in the Group A/B days was incredibly exciting!
For time of day, I'd like to be able to start a race just before sunrise and have the sun peaking up through trees dishing out those volumetric god rays. I know the average course is only 5 or so minutes but that's all that is needed for something like that to happen with a slightly exaggerated speed in the passage of time. Like I said though, this isn't something I am demanding but it's something I find really fun to do in project cars that would be really fun to have in this game as well.
For tire tracks, its just for added realism. Numerous other rally games have done this. Their absence is quite noticeable on replays.
Edit
EXACTLY!
Great video and very good points. Fix the wheel settings and ffb and I'll buy the game. 900 degrees max and realistic ffb, please!
900 degrees sucks for rally though! Hopefully they will add the animation though to please everybody
I just had this finish to a tough route:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2EEU2lS6HY
SonicXtreme
Member
man i want to redo that monthly challenge but its a freakin endurance. can't wait for next months, that is the most fun part of the game for me. good money too if you dont crash out too quickly
Diablohead
Member
V-Rally 2 on playstation 1 had crowds which ran to the side of the track too, not many games do it.
Betta Lines
Member
I'm sure there a few cars in the selection with at least 900 degrees in real life - the Escort for example.900 degrees sucks for rally though! Hopefully they will add the animation though to please everybody
It's not just an animation problem - the cars should have the same rotation/ratio as reality as the starting point, and then have the option to tighten it from there for those wanting a faster response. At the moment it's designed for around 270-400, i.e. unrealistically low, so using 900 right now makes it seem particularly unresponsive. If it was designed for the right rotation/ratio in the first place, it wouldn't feel unresponsive.
As I said in the video, ideally the game should see the full rotation of your wheel, and then apply its own 'soft lock' for cars with less rotation. When I ask for 900/1080 support, I'm not asking for every car to use the full 1080 rotation if that's not realistic, I just want to leave the wheel in that setting and let the sim figure out where to add the virtual lock stops on a per-vehicle basis - this is how all the sims do it now.
Thanks for the comments guys - looks like the message has been passed on to the devs.
TJP
Member
Mods already starting to appear in the form of new liveries: http://www.racedepartment.com/forums/dirt-rally-mods.379/
I'm an avid simracer (iRacing, Assetto Corsa, rFactor2, GSCE) and I've been enjoying this a lot.
It's the best rally game in years, but it's not a simulator, or at least it's not a hardcore sim, it may be a sim for people that consider Project CARS to be a sim.
The physics aren't quite there, it needs work, but if Codemasters are really looking forward out feedback to improve the game, this little rock could turn into a diamond. (so cheesy)
How is the best way to give feedback to the devs? I'd think that being an early access game, it would have an in-game way of doing it.
I'm using a T500RS, and while the stock feedback was awful, with this tweak it is pretty nice. http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/ffb-tweak-no-void.104688/
I don't think so.
It's the best rally game in years, but it's not a simulator, or at least it's not a hardcore sim, it may be a sim for people that consider Project CARS to be a sim.
The physics aren't quite there, it needs work, but if Codemasters are really looking forward out feedback to improve the game, this little rock could turn into a diamond. (so cheesy)
How is the best way to give feedback to the devs? I'd think that being an early access game, it would have an in-game way of doing it.
I'm using a T500RS, and while the stock feedback was awful, with this tweak it is pretty nice. http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/ffb-tweak-no-void.104688/
I don't think so.
Thanks, I was using 270 per their recomendations. i will try it your way.
I'm sure there a few cars in the selection with at least 900 degrees in real life - the Escort for example.
It's not just an animation problem - the cars should have the same rotation/ratio as reality as the starting point, and then have the option to tighten it from there for those wanting a faster response. At the moment it's designed for around 270-400, i.e. unrealistically low, so using 900 right now makes it seem particularly unresponsive. If it was designed for the right rotation/ratio in the first place, it wouldn't feel unresponsive.
As I said in the video, ideally the game should see the full rotation of your wheel, and then apply its own 'soft lock' for cars with less rotation. When I ask for 900/1080 support, I'm not asking for every car to use the full 1080 rotation if that's not realistic, I just want to leave the wheel in that setting and let the sim figure out where to add the virtual lock stops on a per-vehicle basis - this is how all the sims do it now.
Thanks for the comments guys - looks like the message has been passed on to the devs.
The issue for me is more that the game should expect a 900 degree wheel and adjust the lock in consequence automatically for each cars.... You know... Like every other modern racers. It's the thing that bugs me the most when I have to go back to a rf1 game (like GSCE)..
SonicXtreme
Member
i wish i could lower the engines past 50% in volume, why's that the lowest? bc i need the voice as high as possible and i cant play spotify in the background evenly enough with the voice so quiet and engine so loud even at a 100/50 split.
also why in the world cant you preview a car's looks in the garage before buying it lol i know you can use custom race mode but come on i just wanna see the model before i drop a few hundred k without a bunch of loading.
that challenge was the first time i saw precipitation in this game, suprised i haven't seen it more. it made it such a struggle though lol, windwhield cam was insane
also why in the world cant you preview a car's looks in the garage before buying it lol i know you can use custom race mode but come on i just wanna see the model before i drop a few hundred k without a bunch of loading.
that challenge was the first time i saw precipitation in this game, suprised i haven't seen it more. it made it such a struggle though lol, windwhield cam was insane
Try the suggested settings, but set Overall Effect Strength, Spring Effect Strength, and Damper Effect Strength to 120%. Makes a big difference to the DFP I'm using. Before that, the first few inches had zero FFB effect, but did steer, which felt off. Now I get resistance as soon as my input has an effect.
Betta Lines
Member
This is the 'quick' rack you'd fit to your MK1/MK2 Escort for rallying:
https://shop.quaife.co.uk/ford-escort-mk2-lhd-quaife-quick-rack-and-pinion-kit-2-15
2.5 turns lock to lock = 900 degrees. Presumably the standard rack had even higher rotation.
Neuromancer
Member
Does anyone have good settings for a T500RS?
I would love to see crowds like this in the game even if it meant only when Group B cars/championships were on offer. Just that little touch of authenticity. Even perhaps help from the spectators when you overturn your car like in RBR.
Yeah, those fools! Luckily there are always the true simracers that can educate the people on what is a sim and what is not.
cyen
Member
I´m having the same problem, unless i change the sound opens in the settings the default ones are too low in game and too loud in the menus.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Okay, so I bought the game last night, let it download and install overnight while I slept, and this morning while I was eating my breakfast and getting ready for work I started it up, bought a mini cooper, and jumped right into my first leg of my first championship. Didn't have time to set the G27 up so I just grabbed the Xbox pad and ran the first course that way. And holy balls I not only finished the race with no wrecks but I got 5th place! Only had to back up once when I came into a 90 turn too fast.
My first initial impressions are this game is fantastic. I'm going to see Avengers 2 tonight and I kind of wish I wasn't, I'd rather go home and set up the G27 and really dig into Dirt Rally instead, lol. I see myself staying up very late tonight and playing this....
My first initial impressions are this game is fantastic. I'm going to see Avengers 2 tonight and I kind of wish I wasn't, I'd rather go home and set up the G27 and really dig into Dirt Rally instead, lol. I see myself staying up very late tonight and playing this....
WarlockTheWise
Member
What the deal with the really shiny gravel at some points, its reflecting like 80% of the light right into my face.
I can't recall that happening to me. Glitch?
I hate you. I have been futzing around with this for 3 days and only got 5th place last night. <puts hands in pockets and kicks dirt>
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
To be fair though I have hundreds of hours played on dozens of racing games over the years, including many dozens of hours with other rally games, especially the Dirt games. I love rally racing games. And that was just the first stage, not the entire race. We'll see how I place overall, I'm betting I'll slip a few spots since it's my first time with the game! I'm sure once I get the G27 hooked up I'll do even better though...
The great thing about playing "spot the sim racer" is that they'll do it for you.
Codemasters just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Sim-racing (I'm an expert), but iRacing and haughtiness are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in arcade racing games where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Sim-racing, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the Sim-racing community, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase DiRT Rally for any system, nor will they purchase any of Codemaster's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Codemasters has alienated an entire market with these physics.
Codemasters, publicly apologize and cancel DiRT Rally for early access or you can kiss your business goodbye.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Sim-racing (I'm an expert), but iRacing and haughtiness are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in arcade racing games where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Sim-racing, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the Sim-racing community, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase DiRT Rally for any system, nor will they purchase any of Codemaster's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Codemasters has alienated an entire market with these physics.
Codemasters, publicly apologize and cancel DiRT Rally for early access or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Guys with the Error 41 problem: are you trying to run the game alongside with fraps? I had this issue when I tried that. Without Fraps it runs normally.
Uh... what?
That's surprising.
Have you looked at this? racedepartment.com/threads/ffb-tweak-no-void.104688/
I don't understand why my gaming preference would annoy someone. I'm enjoying this game a lot, and I think the fact that I love realistic games and that I didn't like Dirt3 is important to give context to my opinion.
I'll reply to your post only to get my point across to everyone else.
I don't think people who enjoy Project CARS are fools, or people who believe that it's a sim. I think the fools are the people that think an arcade is a lesser game than a sim, so they need to believe PCARS is a sim to justify they like it.
I enjoy sims more, it doesn't mean I think they are better games. It's like comparing Call of Duty to ArmA.
I don't see anything wrong with being a simracer, so spot me all you want.
This would be funny if DIRT wouldn't be getting a lot of good opinions in the iRacing's forum.
It's a meme and I'm bored. As I can't actually play the game (Error 41 and no Fraps) I'm haunting this thread.
EDIT: @plidex You're missing the point, when you establish your 'credentials' in order to give your opinion on what is and isn't a sim (and sport an iRacing avatar, a sim with known glaring issues with its own physics) it makes you look like an 'expert' as per the meme. Why would anyone trust your opinion on physics when you're not a racing driver? Also, lighten up.
Ok, I understand what you are saying. No opinion about realism and physics can be trusted blindly, for every sim out there you will see people saying its physics are sh#t and others saying they are great.
But given that we are not racing drivers and everyone is going to talk about realism anyway, I give more weight to the opinion of someone who is experienced in simracing in opposite to someone who has never played a sim. Codemasters is also wanting to attract simracers, they talked about Richard Burns Rally, so I thought it would matter.
My avatar means I love iRacing, it doesn't mean I think its physics are great, but it is a simulator, and that's all I have said. I love iRacing because it's realistic and the online system is amazing, but I do wish it had better physics among other things.
Yeah, I know getting worked up isn't going to help me, it's just that even if I made the wrong impression, I came here wanting to share my experience and my enjoyment of this game and I only got mocked.
But the basis of your assumption is that the games you are calling 'sims' are accurate in the first place.
It's a known phenomenon for 'sim' games to artificially increase the difficulty of driving to provide challenge and meet the expectation that 'harder=more real' amongst their userbase, so the whole thing is a false premise anyway.
Any game aiming for realism by calculating theoretical computer models of the real world is a simulator, it's just some are closer to recreating reality than others. Whether it is a sim or not is about intent not execution.
Anyway, welcome to GAF! ;-)
Ah, haha, lol. Missed that. Sorry. xD
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I loved Dirt 1, liked Dirt 2 a lot, and I only liked certain parts of Dirt 3 but overall I really didn't care for the game, it's by far my least played Dirt game. I've only spent about half an hour with Dirt Rally so I haven't formed an educated opinion yet, but my first impressions of it are excellent.
I like both arcade racers and sim racers, as long as a racing game is well done I can find fun in it. I would say I prefer the sim focused racers more but I don't need them to be hardcore sim racers, just challenging, engaging, and fun to drive. Presentation goes a long way too, I liked the racing in Dirt 2 but the menus and dudebro stuff wore thin on me fast. Dirt Rally's clean and simple interface is better IMHO, much easier and faster to get into the racing parts!
SlickShoes
Member
is this something I can play with an X360 pad or am I going to need a steering wheel?