-duskdoll-
Member
New drinking game! Drink every time "well written" is mentioned in a LGBT thread.
Dishonored 2 to feature prominent LGBT characters
- Thread starter theecakee
- Start date
New drinking game! Drink every time "well written" is mentioned in a LGBT thread.
"Filth"?
Man, I'm not sure if it's better or worse when people are so blatant about their own bigotry.
zelhawks37
Member
As long as they are written well, im cool with it.
People at the hospital about to make that overtime money. :lol
Coolade
Member
:lol
I always wondered what would've happened if in the Gow trailer Dom got out a photo of him and his husband instead of his wife honestly
Bender_Rodriguez
Banned
Why? Is this a safeplace or what? Is discussion not allowed?
The story is either going to revolve around LGBT characters, which is fine. Or it's going to be minor parts where the fact someone is LGBT doesn't even matter. If the story doesn't revolve around these characters, yet they're prominent, then that just suggests to me that it's put in the for the sake of having LGBT characters. Unless these characters make a big deal about how they are LGBT then the relevance of this is negligible and there would be absolutely no reason to even mention sexuality in any well written story.
GandalftheRainbow
Neo Member
What about straight promiment characters? Are they put for the sake of having straight characters? Or does it just become an issue with characters that identify as queer? Poeple mention their sexualities all the time and so do characters in any well written story.
See you, get it. I was framing it in that way for people who don't.
You understand that adding references to a character's sexuality, even if it doesn't figure prominently in the plot, is just one way of adding the kind of texture and detail that makes them feel real and authentic. The problem comes when people apply a double standard to this because they think non-straight characters are "different" and can't have that aspect of their lives mentioned without it being some kind of deliberate statement. Characters can't just "be gay."
It's a "safe space" inasmuch as you get banned if you act like a disrespectful tool.
Arozay
Member
Bender_Rodriguez
Banned
I am not being disrespectful but rather making a point. LGBT acceptance has took off recently and I have nothing against anyone of those groups. But can't you see the problem here? LGBT is a hot topic and then a game developer says "our game has prominent LGBT characters". If that doesn't scream that it's shoehorned in there for the sake of hopping onto a trend then I don't know what will. It shouldn't matter or even be a talking point about any characters sexuality. It should be open for interpretation and then it offends no body and can't be any more accepting.
Theanine3D
Member
I think you missed the part where the developer was asked about LGBT characters being included. All the dev did was answer a question. They didn't make a press release saying "Hey we have gay characters, so buy our game!!"
And that second part? Sorry, but homophobes SHOULD be offended. We shouldn't be trying to tiptoe around people's bigotry. That you suggest this says a lot about where your priorities lie.
First, I disagree about your initial post being a respectful way to enter the discussion. It was pretty rude.
Second, I think you're being far too cynical and still holding onto a double standard. They didn't make this a big bulletpoint at E3, it was a question answered on Twitter. It's okay to worry that devs will botch attempts to make their games more diverse, but Arkane has a pretty good track record for writing so far so it's not unreasonable to have some faith in them.
Last, why do you see it as a "trend" rather than games catching up to the diversity of the real world and the people who play them? This isn't just something that goes away after a while.
This is actual offensive garbage. You're asking for the erasure of non-straight characters because their presence might offend people? Those people can go pound sand.
TatteredHat
Member
Will be interesting to see how they handle it, Dis 1 was written pretty well though so I'm not pessimistic.
On a personal level, I am indifferent.
On a personal level, I am indifferent.
LGBT is not a trend you jack ass. So acting like this is something new and will pass is ignorant, selfish and insulting. Your ignorance of the social realities pertaining to the LGBT is palpable and undermines you every time you post. The fact alone you don't realize how you are being disrespectful and are bringing up "safe spaces" and similar topics paints you in a very ugly light.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Marcus:lol
I always wondered what would've happened if in the Gow trailer Dom got out a photo of him and his husband instead of his wife honestly
Where's Mario Marcus!?
Wheres marioooooooooo
*Luigi pops out*
"imma wondering too"
-duskdoll-
Member
There is nothing that suggests that the LGBT characters are being "shoehorned" in the game. Absolutely nothing. The fact that that was your knee-jerk assumption says more about you than anything else.
It's easy to say that it shouldn't matter when you didn't grow up being ashamed of who you were. It does matter, maybe not you but it matters to the people who need it.
Moff
Member
plenty of straight relationships are shoehorned in without depth, or are clear as day and not open to interpretation and I see no one complaining there
if your issue is that a developer/publisher is bragging about how PC they are and want to cash in on that, then, well, yeah, more power to them because we really don't have enough of that in games, sadly
ohoho this is amazing
Woo-Fu
Banned
There better be an even number of them and they better be evenly split between the good and bad factions. Each subgroup of LGBT should receive equal representation as well. So should each sex. So that means we're going to need 8 LGBT characters per faction and that is if we completely ignore race. 16 LGBT characters is a small step in the right direction, hopefully other studios/publishers follow their lead.
Flintty
Member
No need for name calling. I think the point he's trying to make is that it's trendy for a dev to be seen to accommodate LGBT in games. He's not saying it's a trend to be LGBT but there has been a lot more coverage of the subject recently and it's easy to draw the conclusion that point scoring in the media isn't totally impossible.
You're grossly projecting something onto the developer that has no basis in reality.
Perhaps question why you personally would react this way and interpret the developer's statement the way you are doing.
Do you always post like this in these threads? You seem to be on a roll with this type of excellent and sharp humor.
Man so many good posts in this thread, this is exciting.
That you require that a game be "about" LGBT sexuality in order to simply mention the sexuality of LGBT characters says everything about your mindset on this subject.You don't get to dictate stipulations for including LGBT characters, they're just fucking people and should be treated as any other type of character in a game.
Flintty
Member
I never said that.
Just saying it how I read it. I might be wrong, of course (I blame the jet lag).
I have had that conversation many times too, weirdly all in parties but at some point or another and those have always come straight out of left field, and there's always been this awkward pause after that, worst case i have personally seen was when i was in training to becoming a mechanic, in the first week of the training you could see this group forming that had a few small time bikers in it and some other "cool" dudes, they were all buddy buddy after the first week and one of the dudes told everybody else that he was gay, it was the most awkward pause i have ever seen and then the gay dude said that he's going out for a smoke and as soon as he left to the locker room to get his stuff the biker dude said "let's beat him up" and then they too went to the locker room and he got beaten up.
I know that sexuality of a character can add texture but i just don't trust Arkane studios to do it well enough that it feels "natural" to the character. I'm not saying that it needs to be well written, just well implemented, there's a bunch of good messages on this thread about the implementation so give those a read if you don't know what i'm talking about.
So what you're saying is video games shouldn't tackle human sexual/romantic relationships? Have you held this point of view since before or after LGBT acceptance 'took off'? I don't want to second guess you, but let's be honest: I doubt you were whining when Princess Peach kissed Mario.
Gentleman Jack
Member
They answered a fan question. You're trying to frame it as if it was part of the on-stage presentation. You don't know the story of Dishonored 2, nor are you privy to the current development. Your repeated attempts to make the 'shoehorned' narrative stick are founded on a flimsy, speculative premise. If you want to not sound disrespectful or rude maybe it's time to stop proclaiming LGBTQ acceptance as a trendy, fashionable social media phenomenon when the current, actual political climate around the world provides multiple, often violent examples of how it is anything but.
Brushguy Woodthreep
Member
Not that I'm an expert on all the world's languages, but this seems very naive to me. In Japanese, for example, a language where gender-specific pronouns are rarely used and you can leave the subject out of most sentences, it would still be almost impossible to mention your wife without actually using the word "wife".
This is kind of a moot point anyway because it's only one of the scenarios I mentioned. I cannot emphasise this enough: Straight people express their heterosexuality all the time in casual conversation. All the time. There are no rules about "appropriate" workplace conversations that magically prevent this from happening, and whether one cares to know or not is completely beside the point.
So, about that conversation in real life.
Coming out is not a small part of a gay person's life. It's something you have to do continuously throughout your life. It happens every time you decide the secret you haven't confessed to your family or friends is eating you up inside and preventing you from being yourself. It also happens every time you reach a point in a conversation where any straight guy would reference their wife or girlfriend or give their opinion on how attractive a lady is, and you're expected to contribute in the same way. You come to a crossroads where you have to decide that you're willing to risk being ostracised and hated, because you think (think, but don't know) they'll be OK with it and won't judge you for it, and it won't permanently change and scar your relationship with them.
Sometimes you can style it out with a casual mention of your boyfriend, or by answering "Are you married?" with "No, I haven't found the right guy yet" (I did that one the other day, lol). But sometimes, it just reaches the point where you have to outright tell them, because otherwise you'll keep avoiding the subject forever and being very repressed and uncomfortable in all your interactions with them.
Certainly, telling people you "don't care" about their sexual orientation is not a good way to make them feel comfortable being themselves around you. I care very much about my sexual orientation. It's what drives my romantic life, which is the source of plenty of casual chatter with my family, friends and coworkers. You know, like a normal person.
As for what this means in games: Casual hints at a person's sexuality is one great way to present a gay character. However, it doesn't represent the full breadth of a gay person's typical life experiences. Overtly saying you're gay is realistic too and deserves a place in fiction about gay people. Sorry if you find it "dull".
While I don't think we're quite at this level of Poe's law yet, I don't doubt the possibility of these kind of statements being relevant 5 or so years from now.
alright breh
The post that you're defending says that. So I'm going to assume you didn't even read the post before jumping in.
And how do you feel about that? Is the idea of more people being represented upsetting to you? Does the slope seem slippery? Any lingering fears about "degenerates?"
Sorry if this comes off as accusatory, just not a big fan of the implied "WHERE DOES IT END????" response to an increase in diversity. The answer is that it doesn't end, everyone is "allowed" to be represented in media. If people want characters like themselves in games, they'll ask for them, and there's nothing wrong with that.
GandalftheRainbow
Neo Member
That is a... Truly horrible story. What happened then? Did you call the police? Notify whoever was in charge? I'm not sure why you brought it up and how to react to this.
True. Only straight poeple can say that they "don't care" about sexuality because their sexuality is never an issue, it isn't even noticed. Most queer poeple care a great about their sexual orientation, me included, because it's often a political and social issue and folks just can't wait to tell how they feel about it, whether it is "I don't care" or that it's "filth" or it's being "shoehorned" into their beloved medium. I don't blame them, it must hard to imagine that you can get beaten up solely for being attracted to someone.
No, the dude didn't want to do anything, a month or so later there was a drug bust at the place and they found speed from the biker dudes locker and he got kicked out and taken with the police never saw him again after that. After that the place kinda calmed down and i left the place because most of the people there were asshats. Few years later i bumped to the guy who got beaten up and we talked about that school and how he too stopped going there shortly after i did, and then we talked and laughed a bit about the stupid shit that was going on in that place. I just brought it up as an example what can happen when you randomly decide to tell people your sexual orientation. Like before that moment they all seemed super friendly with each other.
Flintty
Member
Ok Bish.
What else would you call your post in response to mine? That Bender poster is straight up ignorant and I'm not going to sugar coat things for a dog whistling, "concerned" poster who has barely any posts at all but several in this very thread that most are not cool with. He is stirring up shit, simple as that.
I'm happy Dishonored 2 will include prominent LGBT characters. I'm also concerned that representation checklists might become the primary talking point for game reveals moving forward.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
It wasn't even the primary talking point here!
Some dude asked him about it on Twitter!
I really wouldn't worry about it in this case, it wasn't part of a checklist, just a direct answer to a fan who asked about it on Twitter. Even if we do see a "checklist" approach every now and then, there are bound to be at least a few really good, memorable characters even from cynical, corporate attempts at making games more diverse.
Gentleman Jack
Member
This is a boogeyman and not a real concern you have.
Ah no I didn't mean from a developer-talking-about-it stance, rather from a consumer/game site perspective. For example I feel like the Zelda reveal was essentially consumed by the girl link/androgynous link debates. That might just be due to my own browsing habits, though.
Why does this happen everytime someone talks about this? They didn't do a press release or a conference about this, and even when there's inevitably an article about this it'll still be based upon a one word twitter response.
This is excellent! Another reason to be really excited to about it. I'm also in the camp that decides to buy games based on how good they are about social issues. Social progress will always be more important than whatever gameplay "innovations" as systematic problems negatively affect people's lives. It's why I won't ever buy inexcusably embarrassing games like mgs5
A dev replying to a customer on twitter = game reveal, yeah, sure.
That attracted attention mostly because the devs gave such an utterly bizarre explanation for it.
If they hadn't said anything, or if they'd just said "Link is male, end of story", or "we wanted to tell a story about a male link" or "we were worried a female Link wouldn't sell", it wouldn't have blown up like that; but the response they gave was bizarre and seemed almost tailor-made for mocking.