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[MrSaturn99]

LET IT GO, LET IT GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, CAN'T HOLD ME BACK ANYMORE!

Oh my god, this is a fucking classic.

Oh no. Fuck. This is seriously in the film?

*looks it up*

Holy FUCK, it was MADE FOR THE MOVIE?!?

My mind is in pieces. My roommate sings this song on repeat nearly every single day. His singing is notoriously horrendous. I just assumed it was another trashy pop song and now you're telling me it's the centerpiece song in the newest Disney film?!?

I...I don't know if I can take this movie seriously anymore. My god, lol.

 

[ivysaur12]

Oh no. Fuck. This is seriously in the film?

*looks it up*

Holy FUCK, it was MADE FOR THE MOVIE?!?

My mind is in pieces. My roommate sings this song on repeat nearly every single day. His singing is notoriously horrendous. I just assumed it was another trashy pop song and now you're telling me it's the centerpiece song in the newest Disney film?!?

I...I don't know if I can take this movie seriously anymore. My god, lol.

It sounds like you need to let it go.

 

[MrSaturn99]

It sounds like you need to let it go.

Probably! I'll just try really hard to muffle my giggles when the scene comes on, haha.

 

[TDLink]

I feel the complete opposite. For me Let It Go was really the point where the movie starts hitting its stride and doesn't stop until the end.

I completely agree that moment is where the movie started hitting its stride, mostly because the pacing before that is kind of odd. I just think that while Let It Go is a big/pivotal song in the movie and fairly memorable, it isn't quite a showstopper like certain songs from past Disney films. And there are very very few songs after it, with only one (Fixer Upper) later in the film. That leaves it very front loaded with songs and the back half very sparse.

Don't get me wrong. I loved the movie and thought it was great. I also liked all the songs that were included. But from a song standpoint it falls apart in the second half. The movie still ends up being fantastic in that half despite that, but think about how much better it would be if it had some more songs like the first half.

 

[Cronox]

Saw it tonight. I think I liked Tangled more over all, but Frozen perhaps hits some higher highs. Plus the

Spoiler

ice fortress being constructed was pretty sweet looking

.

Ok, can we talk about the scenario of this movie for a moment? It bothered me and kind of spoiled my immersion up until

Spoiler

fortress of solitude

time (spoilers for first half of the movie):

Spoiler

So the sisters are playing and Anna gets head-shotted with ice powers, and the parents bring the sisters to the troll leader. He explicitly says that fear will threaten Elsa's control of her powers, while simultaneously telling the parents that she must hide those powers. Then the father pipes up to say (remember, fear is bad for Elsa's powers) that he's going to isolate her from everyone and scare her about using her super-duper-dangerous powers ever in the future. It was just such a bone-headed origin story, to think that they then show that she's been mostly isolated alone in her room for what, 10 years?! You can have a dysfunctional relationship with your family/powers without being straight-up made an outcast. I guess I just wanted something more reasonable. What she goes through is far too fucked up for her to be able to realistically do what she does in the "let it go" scene. If she's been afraid of her own powers for that long then she would either be bitter or curled in a ball at that point. Yeah it's Disney, but the characterization just lost me there. After "let it go," the movie was in much better shape tone-wise.

 

[ivysaur12]

The actual Snow Queen aspects of the first act don't land that well and are the weakest part of the film, but everything from Let it Go onward is so good, I didn't care.

LET IT GO, LET IT GOOOOOOOOOOOOO into my veins.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Also an A+ on Cinemascore, as with Tangled, apparently. Certainly does seem to be very popular with general audiences, which should lead to good word of mouth. Already poised to have a higher opening weekend than Tangled or Ralph.

Little disappointed in the RT rating, unlikely to reach 90 now. Average rating still healthy, though.

I would hesitate to compare it to the Disney Renaissance. Though the perception of WDAS has been improving, they are still far from having the same cultural impact and critical acclaim of the films of that era. In part, this has to do with there being other major Western animation studios around as compared to the early 90s where their only significant competition, Don Bluth, was already floundering. And there has been a lot of shit that has irreparably damaged the public perception of WDAS, the DTV sequels, the Disney Princess marketing etc.

Speaking of Rotten Tomatoes......I’ve got a few things I’d like to say about it. 1. In the last few days the Rotten Tomatoes average score has been going down 1 percent each time. It's currently sitting on 84%. That score doesn't seem to match the praise it’s getting. It's almost like the critics were seeing all the praise and then decided "nope, gotta bring this one down a bit!" Not gonna lie, I wish it was a bit higher. 2. Tangled was on 90% for years and a handful of new fresh reviews were just added recently, but now its gone down to 89%? WUT? How does that work? 3. I hope I don't get killed for this, but damn are a lot of the PIXAR movies overrated on Rotten Tomatoes. I mean they're good movies, but that good?

Spoiler

Nope.

You really, really need to stop judging the film based on other people's impressions. Just wait till you see it, bud.

From reading the script, reading all the reviews, listening to the soundtrack and watching all the videos I feel like I have.

Probably! I'll just try really hard to muffle my giggles when the scene comes on, haha.

You’ll likely be too awe struck to even think about giggling......it’s one of the movies peaks.

The actual Snow Queen aspects of the first act don't land that well and are the weakest part of the film, but everything from Let it Go onward is so good, I didn't care.

LET IT GO, LET IT GOOOOOOOOOOOOO into my veins.

Click me!

 

[qindarka]

Speaking of Rotten Tomatoes......I’ve got a few things I’d like to say about it. 1. In the last few days the Rotten Tomatoes average score has been going down 1 percent each time. It's currently sitting on 84%. That score doesn't seem to match the praise it’s getting. It's almost like the critics were seeing all the praise and then decided "nope, gotta bring this one down a bit!" Not gonna lie, I wish it was a bit higher. 2. Tangled was on 90% for years and a handful of new fresh reviews were just added recently, but now its gone down to 89%? WUT? How does that work? 3. I hope I don't get killed for this, but damn are a lot of the PIXAR movies overrated on Rotten Tomatoes. I mean they're good movies, but that good?

Spoiler

Nope.

There isn't any conspiracy. Perhaps later reviews are in part a contrarian reaction to early praise, I don't discount that possibility completely. However, we could also say that early praise could be the product of hype and marketing, there were those lazy Beauty and the Beast/Lion King comparisons.* Going to go off on a slight tangent and refer to Man of Steel as an example, the early reviews were pretty damned positive as compared to its current mixed critical reception, I firmly believe this was due to the hype it had accumulated.

*I'm not saying it's preposterous to compare Frozen with those two films, myself personally preferring Tangled to Beauty and the Beast, however, those comparisons were borne from the usual, lazy narratives about Disney's supposed drastic decline since The Lion King and a desperation for the return to the early Renaissance.

Anyway, don't take RT ratings that seriously.

From reading the script, reading all the reviews, listening to the soundtrack and watching all the videos I feel like I have.

It's not exactly the same thing, though.

I hope I don't get killed for this, but damn are a lot of the PIXAR movies overrated on Rotten Tomatoes. I mean they're good movies, but that good?

Spoiler

Nope.

For the longest time, I held a very petty bitterness towards Pixar, perceiving them to be overrated. Especially as they were always praised at WDAS's expense, a lot was said about how Pixar's characters had so much more depth, were better for not having songs etc. There is this very unhealthy tendency that drives us to shit on certain films in order to elevate others. You could even see this in some of the praise for Frozen, the previous films, especially Tangled and Ralph, were often treated as if they didn't exist or merely used as props to elevate Frozen.

Anyway, in regards to Pixar, I have in the end, got what I wanted and I don't like it one bit.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

It's not exactly the same thing, though.

Well yeah I know, but I still can't see the movie disappointing me at all. I've loved absolutely everything I've heard and seen.

I've been kinda obsessed for quite a while now LOL. No way will this be disappointing me. Without a doubt I know I’ll love it.

 

[GCX]

Well yeah I know, but I still can't see the movie disappointing me at all. I've loved absolutely everything I've heard and seen.

I've been kinda obsessed for quite a while now LOL. No way will this be disappointing me. Without a doubt I know I’ll love it.

Tbh many times that kind of mindset is a sure way to get disappointed. The image your mind has created about the movie is so perfect that the actual product just can't match that.

Not saying your experience will be like that but I've been there.

 

[qindarka]

Well yeah I know, but I still can't see the movie disappointing me at all. I've loved absolutely everything I've heard and seen.

I've been kinda obsessed for quite a while now LOL. No way will this be disappointing me. Without a doubt I know I’ll love it.

I know how you feel, I've long had far too much of a personal stake in this film, especially driven by the rampant negativity that surrounded it's marketing and all the controversies surrounding it mostly spreading from Tumblr onto a lot of other sites (not here, thankfully).

But still, as GCX said, this is not the best mindset to approach a film.

 

[Exterminieren]

Well yeah I know, but I still can't see the movie disappointing me at all. I've loved absolutely everything I've heard and seen.

I've been kinda obsessed for quite a while now LOL. No way will this be disappointing me. Without a doubt I know I’ll love it.

Well, best of luck to you, but what you've done is set yourself up for the biggest kind of hype crash imaginable.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

LOL, you guys – don't worry about me. I wouldn’t let myself get this excited if I didn’t know I’ll love it. I know what to expect....

After Tangled I’ve got complete faith. Like I said, from the amount of stuff I’ve read, seen and heard, it ain’t gonna disappoint.

 

[borghe]

Really didn't know anything about the movie before going in.

Best Disney animated movie since the 90s renaissance.

Best animated Disney song (Let It Go) since Beauty and the Beast.

And probably the only time I have ever gasped at a Disney movie. I won't spoil the first but the second was the incredible finale.

Was expecting to be annoyed by Olaf but just like everything else about the movie he was the best comedic sidekick since Timon, Pumba and Genie.

Well written, strong acting and incredible music. Tangled was an incredible start and this movie just builds on all if it.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Really didn't know anything about the movie before going in.

Best Disney animated movie since the 90s renaissance.

Best animated Disney song (Let It Go) since Beauty and the Beast.

And probably the only time I have ever gasped at a Disney movie. I won't spoil the first but the second was the incredible finale.

Was expecting to be annoyed by Olaf but just like everything else about the movie he was the best comedic sidekick since Timon, Pumba and Genie.

Well written, strong acting and incredible music. Tangled was an incredible start and this movie just builds on all if it.

 

[borghe]

I also see some in here not feeling Let It Go. Regarding the movie (and OST) version, I'm not sure about listening to it before seeing the movie, but hearing it in the context of the scene it was presented in literally brought tears to my eyes. It is such an incredible set piece for the movie and for Elsa's character... I bought the soundtrack after the movie SOLELY on that song, and listening to it every time now can practically see the scene frame for frame in my mind.

So I guess all I'm saying is to try and reserve judgment til you hear it in the context of the movie.

 

[qindarka]

Really didn't know anything about the movie before going in.

Best Disney animated movie since the 90s renaissance.

Best animated Disney song (Let It Go) since Beauty and the Beast.

And probably the only time I have ever gasped at a Disney movie. I won't spoil the first but the second was the incredible finale.

Was expecting to be annoyed by Olaf but just like everything else about the movie he was the best comedic sidekick since Timon, Pumba and Genie.

Well written, strong acting and incredible music. Tangled was an incredible start and this movie just builds on all if it.

How did you find the pacing? I've been hearing numerous complaints that events follow one another too quickly with no space to breathe.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

I also see some in here not feeling Let It Go. Regarding the movie (and OST) version, I'm not sure about listening to it before seeing the movie, but hearing it in the context of the scene it was presented in literally brought tears to my eyes. It is such an incredible set piece for the movie and for Elsa's character... I bought the soundtrack after the movie SOLELY on that song, and listening to it every time now can practically see the scene frame for frame in my mind.

So I guess all I'm saying is to try and reserve judgment til you hear it in the context of the movie.

The strut she does when she belts out "here I stand in the light of day!" after she

Spoiler

transforms

is so empowering.

Oh and speaking of when Elsa

Spoiler

transforms.

Its Disney magic at its finest. It was executed so damn perfectly!

 

[victreeb3l]

Whoa I had no idea there was more to this movie than the snowman and reindeer.

As good if not better than Tangled? No way. Now I must see this...

 

[borghe]

How did you find the pacing? I've been hearing numerous complaints that events follow one another too quickly with no space to breathe.

Really? I almost thought the beginning moved a teeny bit slow trying to set everything up.

Overall the pacing I thought was quite good. The only downside was the often mentioned trolls, and it wasn't that it was even particularly bad, just not up to the rest of the incredible movie. Was supposed to be meant like the bar scene in Tangled I think. It just didn't end up working like that one did.

The strut she does when she belts out "here I stand in the light of day!" after she

Spoiler

transforms

is so empowering.

Oh and speaking of when Elsa

Spoiler

transforms.

Its Disney magic at its finest. It was executed so damn perfectly!

Agree agree agree agree.

The whole "Let It Go" sequence is among the finest Disney has ever put together. It is this generation's Beauty and the Beast ballroom scene.

 

[SonicX_Zero]

Just saw this tonight and it was a pretty awesome movie. The music really gave me dem feels, just want to give a shout to For the first time in forever since I know Let it go is already popular and its also really good.

 

[Raiden]

I'll have to check this out i recently saw Tangled and expected nothing from it. Took me by surprise.

 

[TDLink]

I also see some in here not feeling Let It Go. Regarding the movie (and OST) version, I'm not sure about listening to it before seeing the movie, but hearing it in the context of the scene it was presented in literally brought tears to my eyes. It is such an incredible set piece for the movie and for Elsa's character... I bought the soundtrack after the movie SOLELY on that song, and listening to it every time now can practically see the scene frame for frame in my mind.

So I guess all I'm saying is to try and reserve judgment til you hear it in the context of the movie.

The whole "Let It Go" sequence is among the finest Disney has ever put together. It is this generation's Beauty and the Beast ballroom scene.

I've seen the movie and thus seen that song in context of the movie. I do like it and think it's very good, I just don't think it's a show stopping number. It's definitely the closest to being that for any of the songs in the movie...but it still just isn't.

I mean you don't think it's the least bit hyperbolic to say it's the best song since Beauty and the Beast? That's discounting everything in Aladdin, The Lion King, Pocahontas, Hercules, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Mulan, Tarzan, The Princess and the Frog, and Tangled. I think from those aforementioned movies there are easily a bunch of songs that are better than Let It Go.

Maybe I'm entirely off base and other people think it really is up to that level but making a grand statement like that just comes across as being caught up in the hype of a recent release.

Just saw this tonight and it was a pretty awesome movie. The music really gave me dem feels, just want to give a shout to For the first time in forever since I know Let it go is already popular and its also really good.

See, I actually think For the First time in Forever is a better song than Let It Go.

 

[Christopher]

Really didn't know anything about the movie before going in.

Best Disney animated movie since the 90s renaissance.

Best animated Disney song (Let It Go) since Beauty and the Beast.

And probably the only time I have ever gasped at a Disney movie. I won't spoil the first but the second was the incredible finale.

Was expecting to be annoyed by Olaf but just like everything else about the movie he was the best comedic sidekick since Timon, Pumba and Genie.

Well written, strong acting and incredible music. Tangled was an incredible start and this movie just builds on all if it.

Its not that great.

I guess when people see a good movie their quick to stackcit against the best.

The singing at first is too much like they didn't separate it enough. Seriously some songs didnt need to be there.

Olaf was great I just wish there was something more heartfelt about him then what ends up happening to him.

 

[yukonrye]

Saw this last night with my two boys. It was their first 3D movie and they loved it. My 6 year old has been singing "for the first time in forever" under his breath all day today. I was kind of disappointed in how dark the 3D tech still is. The only other 3D movie I've seen was Up and they both had the problem. I don't know why they can't crank up the brightness for the 3D.

Tangled, Wreck-it Ralph, and now Frozen. This studio is on a roll.

 

[Finaika]

Just came back and saw the movie and... I really, really love it!

Spoiler

More than Tangled!

 

[Symphonic]

Olaf is just great. He was really the highlight of the movie for me. Such a hilariously perfect design. The one part in his song (you all know what part) had my entire family in stitches.

 

[Lebron]

Straight Tangled knock off this was not. What a film.

Disney Animation Studios still clowning on Pixar.

 

[borghe]

You can count on one hand the releases from Pocahontas up to Meet the Robinsons that I actually have a decent regard for. They are basically Lili & Stitch, Emperor's New Groove, MTR, Mulan and that's really it. So when you bring up the post-Frank Wells musical output it really doesn't make me think.

Lion King I like more than the music. Aladdin is great but much less of a princess movie (even though it has one)

You guys can believe it's release hype all you want, but at 38 years old and remembering back to when "releasing from the vault" meant a theatrical re-release and nothing else, I'm pretty confident on how much I loved the movie. Frozen is the real deal. Of course you may not share that opinion which is fine and all, but for me the movie was the same magic as the first time I sat in the seat for Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, etc up through Lion King. And I am guessing I'll see it a few more times just like those ones as well.

Enjoy.

 

[TDLink]

You can count on one hand the releases from Pocahontas up to Meet the Robinsons that I actually have a decent regard for. They are basically Lili & Stitch, Emperor's New Groove, MTR, Mulan and that's really it. So when you bring up the post-Frank Wells musical output it really doesn't make me think.

Lion King I like more than the music. Aladdin is great but much less of a princess movie (even though it has one)

You guys can believe it's release hype all you want, but at 38 years old and remembering back to when "releasing from the vault" meant a theatrical re-release and nothing else, I'm pretty confident on how much I loved the movie. Frozen is the real deal. Of course you may not share that opinion which is fine and all, but for me the movie was the same magic as the first time I sat in the seat for Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, etc up through Lion King. And I am guessing I'll see it a few more times just like those ones as well.

Enjoy.

You're entitled to like the movie as much as you want but you specifically said "Best animated Disney song (Let It Go) since Beauty and the Beast". And I just don't think there is any way that is true, even on a subjective level.

At the very least I would say Friend Like Me, A Whole New World, Circle of Life, I Just Can't Wait to Be King, Colors of the Wind, The Bells of Notre Dame, God Help the Outcasts, and Hellfire are objectively much better songs than Let It Go.

I would also say that, additionally, subjectively, Prince Ali, I Just Can't Wait to be King, Be Prepared, Hakuna Matata, Can You Feel the Love Tonight, Go the Distance, Out There, Reflection, Be A Man, and I See the Light are better songs than Let It Go.

Once again, Let It Go isn't a bad song. I enjoyed Frozen, and all of its songs. But I think the film is a bit weakened by not having any songs up to the level of, well, any of the ones I just mentioned in this post (not to mention a few Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast ones). And I do think Frozen is a bit better than a few movies those songs come from (Pocahontas and Hercules, at least).

 

[BertramCooper]

Whatever critic called this the best Disney film since The Lion King is on meth.

What a disappointment. It's beautiful, obviously, but it's so oppressively goofy.

 

[ivysaur12]

You're entitled to like the movie as much as you want but you specifically said "Best animated Disney song (Let It Go) since Beauty and the Beast". And I just don't think there is any way that is true, even on a subjective level.

Isn't that sort of the point of, you know, subjectivity?

 

[TDLink]

Isn't that sort of the point of, you know, subjectivity?

I was saying that some Disney songs have been objectively better. Ie, they are structured better. Have better lyrics. Are better both in and out of context. Have a bigger impact. That is that first list of songs I gave. That second list were songs I additionally felt were better out of my own subjectivity.

 

[ivysaur12]

I was saying that some Disney songs have been objectively better. Ie, they are structured better. Have better lyrics. Are better both in and out of context. That is that first list of songs I gave. That second list were songs I additionally felt were better out of my own subjectivity.

Yeah, I don't know if you can "objectively" define what's a "better" song for someone else.

I'd just, you know.......... let it go.

 

[BertramCooper]

"Let it Go" is indeed a great song and a splendid bit of animation, but it was pretty much the film's only memorable sequence.

Tangled struck a nice balance between the fun, kid-friendly physical comedy and the meatier narrative heft. Frozen was far too much of the former, and sorely lacking the latter. And it really needed a good antagonist to give it a bit of direction.

 

[ivysaur12]

"Let it Go" is indeed a great song and a splendid bit of animation, but it was pretty much the film's only memorable sequence.

Tangled struck a nice balance between the fun, kid-friendly physical comedy and the meatier narrative heft. Frozen was far too much of the former, and sorely lacking the latter. And it really needed a good antagonist to give it a bit of direction.

I disagree -- I thought that the

Spoiler

twist of Hans actually being the antagonist was brilliant because it completely subverted my expectations on his role in the film. I thought for sure that he'd end up with Elsa and everyone would live happily ever after. And yeah, while his presence in the movie as the villain was sort of lacking since his intentions were only revealed in Act 3, I still thought that the conflict of the movie was between two sisters. That's what set it apart from me and made it as wonderful as I thought. There's probably an argument that Anna could have been less understanding of Elsa's predicament, and that would have heightened their initial misunderstanding of one another. I would maybe agree there, but it still didn't bother me once you... LET IT GOOOOOOOOOOOO

I liked -- not loved -- Tangled a lot, but I thought that Frozen was a much more mature experience from a storytelling POV. I still think Wreck-It Ralph was better than both if just because it made me cry my eyes out, but all three were really fun movies in their own way.

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

Gonna take my nieces to see this sometime soon. It looks great!

 

[TDLink]

Yeah, I don't know if you can "objectively" define what's a "better" song for someone else.

I'd just, you know.......... let it go.

People are allowed to like something more than something else while still acknowledging it isn't actually better than something else. If people want to like Let It Go better than any Disney song since Beauty and the Beast, then sure, they can. But it is straight up wrong to say it is actually better than any Disney song since Beauty and the Beast. Awards many of those songs have aside, they are just better structured and more lyrically clever. The songs better tell stories than those in Frozen. I know I must seem crazy to you to try to be claiming that some songs are objectively better than others, but there is a theory behind music. There's a reason some songs become more beloved than others/are more memorable/are more catchy.

Kristin Anderson-Lopez and Robert Lopez are very good songwriters but they don't really hold a candle to the absolute greats like Alan Menken, Howard Ashman, Tim Rice, David Zippel, Stephen Schwartz, and Elton John that are on another level. Songs from the films those songwriters worked on are very clearly better at storytelling and lyrical structure than the songs in this movie. That's also the reason For the First Time in Forever is, in my opinion, the best song in the film (because it at least tries to do this). Let It Go is still a great, and catchy, song but it is more about the moment/an inner emotion. There's nothing wrong with that but it inherently makes it a weaker song when compared to those that further the story through music. I do think it has a chance to be memorable thanks to the visuals that are linked with it, but I think for someone just hearing the song out of context they would likely consider it weaker than if they heard one of those others I mentioned out of context. Feel free to try that experiment.

 

[ivysaur12]

People are allowed to like something more than something else while still acknowledging it isn't actually better than something else. If people want to like Let It Go better than any Disney song since Beauty and the Beast, then sure, they can. But it is straight up wrong to say it is actually better than any Disney song since Beauty and the Beast. Awards many of those songs have aside, they are just better structured and more lyrically clever. The songs better tell stories than those in Frozen. I know I must seem crazy to you to try to be claiming that some songs are objectively better than others, but there is a theory behind music. There's a reason some songs become more beloved than others/are more memorable/are more catchy.

Kristin Anderson-Lopez and Robert Lopez are very good songwriters but they don't really hold a candle to the absolute greats like Alan Menken, Howard Ashman, Tim Rice, David Zippel, Stephen Schwartz, and Elton John that are on another level. Songs from the films those songwriters worked on are very clearly better at storytelling and lyrical structure than the songs in this movie. That's also the reason For the First Time in Forever is, in my opinion, the best song in the film (because it at least tries to do this). Let It Go is still a great, and catchy, song but it is more about the moment/an inner emotion. There's nothing wrong with that but it inherently makes it a weaker song when compared to those that further the story through music.

It's not a hard concept. Just because something doesn't resonate with you doesn't mean you can ignore the legitimate opinions of others on what is "better". You can't, full stop, dismiss someone's opinions on music, art, etc, on some universal theme of objectivity when that doesn't necessarily exist, especially when you start to climb into the territory of concepts like why certain songs are beloved.

Again. Let it go. Don't define enjoyment for other people or try to dismiss their opinions based on your own concepts that they might not share.

You can't define art for someone else.

 

[BertramCooper]

I disagree -- I thought that the

Spoiler

twist of Hans actually being the antagonist was brilliant because it completely subverted my expectations on his role in the film. I thought for sure that he'd end up with Elsa and everyone would live happily ever after. And yeah, while his presence in the movie as the villain was sort of lacking since his intentions were only revealed in Act 3, I still thought that the conflict of the movie was between two sisters. That's what set it apart from me and made it as wonderful as I thought. There's probably an argument that Anna could have been less understanding of Elsa's predicament, and that would have heightened their initial misunderstanding of one another. I would maybe agree there, but it still didn't bother me once you... LET IT GOOOOOOOOOOOO

Honestly,

Spoiler

I saw the Hans twist coming from the instant he arrived. I thought it was pretty obvious, and I can't imagine I was the only one who thought so. It became especially clear in the second half of the film when no clear antagonist had arrived. I mean, I'm not saying a film always needs a super-evil antagonist to work, but Elsa was such a wounded bird that the film needed something to make for a compelling conflict in the final act. Sadly, the twist was made far too late to make Hans into an interesting villain.

Spoiler

I think the film could have worked with the focus solely on Anna and Elsa, but they really should have reconsidered the choice to isolate the girls so heavily from each other. I don't think that sort of conflict works well when the two characters have so little history together.

I liked -- not loved -- Tangled a lot, but I thought that Frozen was a much more mature experience from a storytelling POV. I still think Wreck-It Ralph was better than both if just because it made me cry my eyes out, but all three were really fun movies in their own way.

I think a lot of the film's elements work pretty well independently, but they were kind of haphazardly assembled together. Olaf

Spoiler

is actually a pretty good little character, but his role as the goofy Disney sidekick felt especially perfunctory (even more so than most goofy Disney sidekicks).

 

[TDLink]

It's not a hard concept. Just because something doesn't resonate with you doesn't mean you can ignore the legitimate opinions of others on what is "better". You can't, full stop, dismiss someone's opinions on music, art, etc, on some universal theme of objectivity when that doesn't necessarily exist, especially when you start to climb into the territory of concepts like why certain songs are beloved.

Again. Let it go. Don't define enjoyment for other people or try to dismiss their opinions based on your own concepts that they might not share.

You can't define art for someone else.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this point because otherwise we will debate in circles.

As far as I'm concerned it is impossible for Let It Go to be "better" than those songs I listed a few posts back from other Disney movies. If someone wants to say they enjoy it more than any of them, that's completely up to them. There is a distinct difference between level of enjoyment and level of quality, although often a song that is of high quality is more enjoyable than one that is of a lesser quality.

As I have been saying all along, I still think Frozen was a pretty good movie but its music, while good, was ultimately a let down compared to Disney's musical pedigree.

Forgive me for merely liking the film and not thinking it was so mind blowing that I have to say LET IT GO at the end of every post I make.

 

[ivysaur12]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this point because otherwise we will debate in circles.

As far as I'm concerned it is impossible for Let It Go to be "better" than those songs I listed a few posts back from other Disney movies. If someone wants to say they enjoy it more than any of them, that's completely up to them. There is a distinct difference between level of enjoyment and level of quality, although often a song that is of high quality is more enjoyable than one that is of a lesser quality.

As I have been saying all along, I still think Frozen was a pretty good movie but its music, while good, was ultimately a let down compared to Disney's musical pedigree.

Forgive me for merely liking the film and not thinking it was so mind blowing that I have to say LET IT GO at the end of every post I make.

But see, you're doing it again. You're thinking something is "impossible", when, actually, many people in this very thread have stated their enjoyment of that particular song. And it's been a mentioned many times in reviews as a stand out.

So, no, it's not impossible. It's just a matter of taste and subjectivity. You didn't love it. Great! You had some very insightful posts on why. I disagree. You also can't tell someone else they are objectively wrong about a sincerely held opinion. That's not how this works.

 

[BertramCooper]

I've stopped expecting Ashman/Menken-caliber work with the new Disney musical films. I think it's because I simply don't care for musicals much anymore, so if the music is a bit lacking, it doesn't bother me much.

That said, I thought that the

Spoiler

troll song

was a real turd.

 

[TDLink]

But see, you're doing it again. You're thinking something is "impossible", when, actually, many people in this very thread have stated their enjoyment of that particular song. And it's been a mentioned many times in reviews as a stand out.

So, no, it's not impossible. It's just a matter of taste and subjectivity. You didn't love it. Great! You had some very insightful posts on why. I disagree. You also can't tell someone else they are objectively wrong about a sincerely held opinion. That's not how this works.

You're not understanding, or ignoring, what I'm saying.

Enjoyment is not the same as quality. But higher quality can lead to more enjoyment. There is a science behind a musical composition. There's a reason things can be more audibly pleasing, catchy, or memorable. There is a structure to songs in general that can lead to them being better constructed.

The songwriters on this film are not as strong as those who have worked with Disney in the past, because of that the songs in this film are not as good. I'm not saying the songwriters are bad. I'm not saying they are incapable of producing better music. I am saying due to their inexperience, comparatively, they have not made better songs in this movie than some of those from the past. Listen to any Howard Ashman/Alan Menken song (Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, for example) or Stephen Schwartz song (Hunchback of Notre Dame, Wicked, for example). Those songs are better structured than those of Frozen. They better tell the story of the scene than those in Frozen. By comparison the songs in Frozen rely much more on the visuals to help tell the story, while with those other songs you could simply listen to them and understand everything you need to.

That's the difference (from a very simplistic and quick explanation). I'm not going to give you an entire Music Theory lecture here though.

 

[ivysaur12]

You're not understanding, or ignoring, what I'm saying.

Enjoyment is not the same as quality. But higher quality can lead to more enjoyment. There is a science behind a musical composition. There's a reason things can be more audibly pleasing, catchy, or memorable. There is a structure to songs in general that can lead to them being better constructed.

The songwriters on this film are not as strong as those who have worked with Disney in the past, because of that the songs in this film are not as good. I'm not saying the songwriters are bad. I'm not saying they are incapable of producing better music. I am saying due to their inexperience, comparatively, they have not made better songs in this movie than some of those from the past. Listen to any Howard Ashman/Alan Menken song (Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, for example) or Stephen Schwartz song (Hunchback of Notre Dame, Wicked, for example). Those songs are better structured than those of Frozen. They better tell the story of the scene than those in Frozen. By comparison the songs in Frozen rely much more on the visuals to help tell the story, while with those other songs you could simply listen to them and understand everything you need to.

That's the difference (from a very simplistic and quick explanation). I'm not going to give you an entire Music Theory lecture here though.

Please. I'm in no way ignoring what you're saying. What I'm saying is that I completely disagree and believed that the musical composion, lyrical cleverness and thematic relevance was on par with those songs you mentioned from the so-called Disney Renaissance.

What very much pisses me off is your holier-than-thou attitude that has transplanted opinion with a bizarre execsive in your personal definitions of objectivity that is malleable at best.

I disagree with you. Amazing! Stop telling people your ear is more trained to see what others are apparently missing.

 

[TDLink]

Please. I'm in no way ignoring what you're saying. What I'm saying is that I completely disagree and believed that the musical composion, lyrical cleverness and thematic relevance was on par with those songs you mentioned from the so-called Disney Renaissance.

What very much pisses me off is your holier-than-thou attitude that has transplanted opinion with a bizarre execsive in your personal definitions of objectivity that is malleable at best.

I disagree with you. Amazing! Stop telling people your ear is more trained to see what others are apparently missing.

I never said this. No one's "ear is better trained". Granted some people are tone deaf. Not everyone understands why songs are popular or not, but regardless of that people do tend to collectively find certain songs popular. It has nothing to do with training your ears.

Let It Go is a good song but for the reasons I have outlined in depth now it doesn't touch Disney songs from the past.

Like I said in a previous post. We're going to have to agree to disagree on this because we are debating in a circle. I think I've been pretty reasonable in this discussion, try not to get so passionate/angered at a forum debate.

 

[ivysaur12]

I never said this. No one's "ear is better trained". Granted some people are tone deaf. Not everyone understands why songs are popular or not, but regardless of that people do tend to collectively find certain songs popular. It has nothing to do with training your ears.

Let It Go is a good song but for the reasons I have outlined in depth now it doesn't touch Disney songs from the past.

Like I said in a previous post. We're going to have to agree to disagree on this because we are debating in a circle. I think I've been pretty reasonable in this discussion, try not to get so passionate/angered at a forum debate.

It was a figure of speech...

Please do not belittle me. It's insanely frustrating to see someone attempt to supplant their opinions as superior because, apparently, that's the only way some people can discuss any form of art on the Internet with, again, malleable concepts of subjectivity that are anything but consant. Don't do that. It's beyond irritating. It's fine to disagree and say why. Telling people their opinion is "impossible"? Nope.

 

[TDLink]

It was a figure of speech...

Please do not belittle me. It's insanely frustrating to see someone attempt to supplant their opinions as superior because, apparently, that's the only way some people can discuss any form of art on the Internet with, again, malleable concepts of subjectivity that are anything but consant. Don't do that. It's beyond irritating. It's fine to disagree and say why. Telling people their opinion is "impossible"? Nope.

You're getting pretty angry, seemingly, over something so unimportant. What I was saying was part opinion and part not opinion. Music Theory is a real thing, and not just opinion.

Anyways, I think this topic is getting pretty far away from actually talking about the movie. Try to lighten up and enjoying discussing things.

Like I said before, overall I enjoyed the movie. Regarding the antagonist stuff, mentioned a few posts ago,

Spoiler

I think it could have been handled better. Since the antagonist does not become clear until extremely late in the movie it does make it slightly unsatisfying. I enjoyed the twist but it probably should have happened a bit earlier to better pace the movie and give a bit of depth to the villain's motives, which are pretty simplistic. I didn't quite call him being a villain from when he first showed up, I thought it would be the duke complaining about his trade routes. I saw the movie with my sister though and she said she called it straight away.

 

[jwk94]

So I watched the trailer and I'm pretty pised. I saw that the sister's hair starts to turn white and the other sister can't exactly control her powers. Is that spoiling much of the movie for myself?

 

[Daft_Cat]

For what it's worth, Wreck-It-Ralph > Frozen > Tangled. I'd give all great scores, but I guess the fact that I'm posting on NeoGAF makes me biased towards Ralph.

Also, just my two cents on the Let it Go number...and the lazy second renaissance comparisons in general...

Not to offend anyone that enjoyed it (I definitely did too), but to suggest that it's this generations version of the Ballroom scene from Beauty and the Beast kind of does Frozen a disservice. Frozen in general won't have the same cultural impact as Beast, nor are those two sequences really in the same league. It's like setting something up for failure instead of enjoying it for what it is.

On an unrelated note, Frozen's atmosphere reminds me of a Disneyfied Skyrim at times.