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[Gamer79]

It has been a slow start for ray tracing but it is finally starting to become a standard feature in games. Games that use it right like Cyberpunk 2077, Indiana Jones, Alan Wake 2, and some others show the potential of the technology. The problem always has been to use this technology you needed a High Priced GPU if you wanted to have both path ray tracing and a good frame-rate. For those who are unclear what DLSS 4 is I will sum it up simply. For the 50xx series cards it offers multi-frame gen and with the 40xx series cards get 2x frame generation. 30xx and 20xx series card do not get any frame generation technology but get the benefits of Super Sampling. One big claim of DLSS 4 is the ability to upscale a lower base resolutions to and match the Image Quality that the previous gen of DLSS technology rendered at a highere one. For example, DLSS Ultra Performance in theory could meet or exceed what DLSS 3.8 did in Quality mode. I have a $500 card and believe that $500 mark is the perfect sweet spot for the mass consumer. Lets put it bluntly that nobody outside of enthusiasts or for a very specific need are spending $1000+ on a graphics card. I put the technology to the test against the more demanding titles on my system and here are my results!

Here is a list of games that are currently supported and of course this will grow quickly with time: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/nvidia-rtx-games-engines-apps/

Test System Specs:
i5-13600kf cpu
32GB DDR5 Ram (6000mhz)
rtx 4070 12GB
2TB Nvme
I am testing these games on a 65 inch 120hz Quantum Dot Oled Tv from 5 feet away. I have a crystal clear picture.

DLSS 4 TESTED IN MULTIPLE GAMES

Alan Wake 2:
4K Base resolution to ultra performance DLSS
Everything is maxed out including Path Ray tracing
frame gen: on
Average frame-rate 62FPS
The game looks Spectacular stunning with the path ray tracing set to max. Previously I could only run it on low because if I dropped to ultra performance the game looked like shit. 4k Ultra Performance looks awesome now and it would be hard to tell in a blind eye test. Very impresive

CYBERPUNK 2077:
4k base resolution to ultra performance DLSS
Game fully maxed out including Path ray tracing on High
Frame Gen: On
Average Frame rate: 85fps
Again another impressive showing I noticed an occasional artifact but 95% of the time it looks absolutely stunning. I got nothing to complain about


Control:
4k resolution to ultra performance DLSS
Everything set to max including Ray tracing
Average Fame rate: 100+ FPS
For an older title this game is still a stunner. At these settings the game looks fantastic. An uplift of about 30% from my previous game settings

Indiana Jones and The Great Circle:
4K base resolution to DLSS ultra Performance
Everything set to High including Path Ray Tracing
Average Frame Rate: 75 FPS
Again the game looks absolutely gorgeous at these settings.

Red Dead Redemption 2
4k base resolution to DLSS ultra performance
Everything Maxed
Frame rate: 90FPS
This game with the new DLSS 4 model not only looks amazing but now plays amazing. This game is a stunner to look at and an absolute eye orgasm. Despite this games age, I will pit it with the best of the best looking game. Just Marvelous!

This is just the start of this technology and I can easily see a future where the $500 cards are good enough to play every modern game with the bells and whistles. I got to wonder if the Nintendo Switch 2 is using any of this secret sauce because it really is an amazing accomplishment. It is like all of us RTX owners got a free card Upgrade

 

[Radical_3d]

*With frame generation.

 

[DaciaJC]

*With frame generation.

That's no reason to discount it out of hand.

 

[Gamer79]

That's no reason to discount it out of hand.

I use it on a high end tv and see no problems with it.

 

[AzekZero]

I love frame generation tech, but I think NVIDIA has used it to mask the fact the RTX 5070 & 5080 has poor price/performance compared to previous generation cards of their class.

But when their competition is this bad, can you blame em?

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

frame gen: on
Average framerate 62FPS

Sorry but 62fps with framegen means real frames are close to 30fps, the latency going to tell you that it is not a 62fps...

 

[DirtInUrEye]

Even with ultra performance DLSS you're still having to use frame gen? I have a ti Super and use performance mode with a very similar setup. I never enable FG in anything.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I'm interested to see if the larger gaming fanbase treats frame gen like they did dlss at first

I full expect ps6 and beyond to use frame gen. I imagine it will be accepted once Cerny talks about it.

 

[cormack12]

Yes, fake 4K and fake frames are now obtainable. There are so many caveats to all these things being actually useful with marginal trade offs.

Whatever happened to just buying what you can afford and pushing the settings manually? That was PC Gaming. Now it's like I just want to buy a new card, set everything to Ultra, turn on the proprietary software model on proprietary hardware and let it make me think it's working, but we'll still put out cards that drain power.

 

[Gamer79]

Sorry but 62fps with framegen means real frames are close to 30fps, the latency going to tell you that it is not a 62fps...

I don't feel it. Alan Wake 2 is a slow paced game anyway. Feels smooth to me.

 

[Dacvak]

I wish my poor old 3080 could do frame gen

Where are all the 5090 GAF daddies throwing away their 4090s? Someone get me the hookup

 

[Mister Wolf]

It will do amazing things for the Switch 2.

 

[cormack12]

I don't feel it. Alan Wake 2 is a slow paced game anyway. Feels smooth to me.

 

[Skifi28]

I'm interested to see if the larger gaming fanbase treats frame gen like they did dlss at first

I full expect ps6 and beyond to use frame gen. I imagine it will be accepted once Cerny talks about it.

Framegen is already accepted, just not from a very low framerate. It has nothing to do with Cerny or consoles. Get your head out of the console wars.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Framegen is already accepted, just not from a very low framerate. It has nothing to do with Cerny or consoles. Get your head out of the console wars.

Wasn't intended to be warring. Was just making a joke. Maybe it crossed the line for you. Apologies.

 

[DirtInUrEye]

Yes, fake 4K and fake frames are now obtainable. There are so many caveats to all these things being actually useful with marginal trade offs.

Whatever happened to just buying what you can afford and pushing the settings manually? That was PC Gaming. Now it's like I just want to buy a new card, set everything to Ultra, turn on the proprietary software model on proprietary hardware and let it make me think it's working, but we'll still put out cards that drain power.

On Nvidia at least, native resolution is largely pointless and obsolete now. I'm not going to continue to target native just arbitrarily, as that would be detrimental.

 

[Klosshufvud]

DLSS Ultra Performance
Frame Gen On

If this is 4K gaming to you, boy do I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[hyperbertha]

If this is 4K gaming to you, boy do I have a bridge to sell you.

It is. There is no noticeable difference.

 

[DirtInUrEye]

There's certainly much less of a difference on a big TV from the couch, as opposed to being sat in front of a monitor pixel counting from 2ft away.

 

[Klosshufvud]

It is. There is no noticeable difference.

Ultra Performance with a base render of like 720p? Yeah there is. You're way better off just using DLSS Balanced or Quality, turn off the stupid Frame Gen and path tracing stuff and enjoy a visually way more stable game.

 

[duck_sauce]

That's no reason to discount it out of hand.

If you base fps before framegen is above 60 fps it can do wonders, otherwise framgen turns your gameplay into an unresponssive mess.

 

[Puscifer]

Sorry but 62fps with framegen means real frames are close to 30fps, the latency going to tell you that it is not a 62fps...

Daniel Owen on YouTube also showed that the GPU isn't even generating a real amount of frames it's actually capable of before adding fake ones for smoothness. So your GPU is actively being gimped for the sake of generating fake frames, you can't make this up lol.

 

[bbeach123]

Daniel Owen on YouTube also showed that the GPU isn't even generating a real amount of frames it's actually capable of before adding fake ones for smoothness. So a GPU is actively being gimped for the sake of generating fake frames, you can't make this up lol.

Frame gen still a mehh from me . 50 base fps + framegen mean your base fps drop to 40, then double to 80 . You're compare between 50fps native and 40x2=80fps framegen .

Silly me thinking its gonna be 50x2=100fps . Free fps.jpg

 

[hinch7]

Ultra Performance with a base render of like 720p? Yeah there is. You're way better off just using DLSS Balanced or Quality, turn off the stupid Frame Gen and path tracing stuff and enjoy a visually way more stable game.

Can probably get away with performance DLSS at 4K with some tweaks and mods like this https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/10490 and not take much of a hit in fidelity.

Would look so much better than using ultra peformance.

 

[Schmick]

I wish my poor old 3080 could do frame gen

Where are all the 5090 GAF daddies throwing away their 4090s? Someone get me the hookup

Try Lossless Scaling (available on Steam).

 

[Von Hugh]

Try Lossless Scaling (available on Steam).

You might lose some hands in the process, but sure, lossless is grrreeaatt.

 

[majestix1988]

for the masses...sure sure it just pricey video card.....will do for it not last gens

 

[HRK69]

$500 is still a big ask for many, but at least it's a step toward making high end graphics more reachable

Just not quite "for the masses" yet imo

 

[cormack12]

On Nvidia at least, native resolution is largely pointless and obsolete now. I'm not going to continue to target native just arbitrarily, as that would be detrimental.

If you play a lot of pixel based games and if it's integer based, maybe. If you can't see the difference between a native 4k image and a scaled 1440 from 1080, then you really don't need a mid to high end card. Which is fine - but lossless scaling doesn't make the image better in terms of clarity or detail. That's simply my point - I'm not saying what you (or anyone) does is not right for you but all this nonsense about it being better than native is a bit daft. And completely flies in the face of what PC gaming has been about for the last 20 odd years.

If there is another shrink and the next gen comparison is say 6090 against 5090 with DLSS and FG what do you think people will pick?

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Framegen is awful and full of artefacts (looking at the tests), DLSS4 temporal stability while improved, is far from being perfect.

Look, I love DLSS and 4th gen upped my 4080 fo free, but it's kinda annoying that people treat it like some sort of magic bullet. Native is still much, much cleaner. Dropped DLSS4 in Rebirth and playing it native.

 

[Hugare]

You might lose some hands in the process, but sure, lossless is grrreeaatt.

DF's video is outdated. That was an older version of LS. It's much better today.

People dismissing OP's point with "not real frames tho" is funny.

I'm playing Cyberpunk locked at 30 and using FG to make it 60, and with Nvidia Reflex I have better response time than playing on my PS5 at 30.

Ignoring FG, DLSS 4 is already game changing. There are videos out there of people rendering games at 360p and upscaling it to 1080p-1440p, and it looks good. This thing is like black magic and havent seen one person that have used not liking it.

But I guess there are many people without RTX cards having some strong opinions about it.

 

[Kenpachii]

DLSS 4 is black magic, absolutely love it. Dropped my resolution on my screen from 3440x1440 > 2560x1080p and from quality to performance dlss, playing every game at 100+ fps even cyberpunk with pathtracing. Good shit.

 

[mèx]

Yes, fake 4K and fake frames are now obtainable. There are so many caveats to all these things being actually useful with marginal trade offs.

Things don't look sharp anymore if you use your native resolution without DLSS, do you know why? TAA.

Most modern high-end engines have TAA integrated into the rendering pipeline, so everything is made with that in mind. TAA is by definition blurry, so even at your native resolution the game will look like shit. Try disabling TAA in a modern game (via a mod or whatever) and see what happens, it's a fucking fizzly mess.

DLSS upscaling is a vastly improved version of TAA, it basically solves most of the problems related to "basic" TAA, with the bonus that you can render at a lower resolution. It's literally a no brainer. It's not perfect but it is a huge improvement.

Dropped DLSS4 in Rebirth and playing it native.

What does it even mean? TAA and TAAU in Rebirth look like absolute dogshit compared to DLSS4.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Things don't look sharp anymore if you use your native resolution without DLSS, do you know why? TAA.

Most modern high-end engines have TAA integrated into the rendering pipeline, so everything is made with that in mind. TAA is by definition blurry, so even at your native resolution the game will look like shit. Try disabling TAA in a modern game (via a mod or whatever) and see what happens, it's a fucking fizzly mess.

DLSS upscaling is a vastly improved version of TAA, it basically solves most of the problems related to "basic" TAA, with the bonus that you can render at a lower resolution. It's literally a no brainer. It's not perfect but it is a huge improvement.


What does it even mean? TAA and TAAU in Rebirth look like absolute dogshit compared to DLSS4.

DLAA is the answer but I can't find the way to force it. DLSS4 75% (quality preset) is bugged with particles, hair and some other things. Most notably certain geometric details will kind of "swim" when close to the camera independent of character movement, like polygons on a PS1. I noticed it most obviously on the buster sword and extreme cutscene closeups. When close to the camera the shapes will noticeably wiggle around.

 

[daninthemix]

Framegen is awful and full of artefacts (looking at the tests), DLSS4 temporal stability while improved, is far from being perfect.

Look, I love DLSS and 4th gen upped my 4080 fo free, but it's kinda annoying that people treat it like some sort of magic bullet. Native is still much, much cleaner. Dropped DLSS4 in Rebirth and playing it native.

Native has been insanely blurry since the introduction of taa. I don’t know how anyone could fail to see that. Computationally it is also becoming less and less viable and that aint gonna change.

 

[mèx]

DLAA is the answer but I can't find the way to force it. DLSS4 75% (quality preset) is bugged with particles, hair and some other things. Most notably certain geometric details will kind of "swim" when close to the camera independent of character movement, like polygons on a PS1. I noticed it most obviously on the buster sword and extreme cutscene closeups. When close to the camera the shapes will noticeably wiggle around.

You can set your min and max resolution scale to 100% to use DLAA (I'm playing it that way). Give it a try. It's heavier than TAA(U) obviously but so much better, it's worth the performance hit.

With TAA(U) I can't even make out the faces of NPCs at a medium distance, it's blurry as hell.

 

[DirtInUrEye]

If you play a lot of pixel based games and if it's integer based, maybe. If you can't see the difference between a native 4k image and a scaled 1440 from 1080, then you really don't need a mid to high end card. Which is fine - but lossless scaling doesn't make the image better in terms of clarity or detail. That's simply my point - I'm not saying what you (or anyone) does is not right for you but all this nonsense about it being better than native is a bit daft. And completely flies in the face of what PC gaming has been about for the last 20 odd years.

On a 4K display, DLSS Balanced and Quality are now noticeably and measurably superior to native. There is more granular resolve in the final image compared to native 3840 x 2160, which is very quickly inferior when it comes to things distant fauna and cabling. DLSS is an easy net improvement over traditional rendering, even moreso now that it can effectively overwrite clumsy TAA implementation.

Times change. Twenty years ago people on PC didn't use Xbox pads to play games, whereas nowadays millions do.

 

[Tokio Blues]

How can be that DLSS is now better than NATIVE or TAA? I dont get it. Someone can explain it to me? (not talking about the FPS. Im talking about image quality)

 

[b0uncyfr0]

It seems dlss4 is going in the right direction. As i understand, the new performance option is equivalent to v3's quality.

Is it that much of an upgrade for every game though?

 

[hussar16]

For the masses?lol the masses on pc stil got a 2x or 3x .defintly not for the masses most don't have 4x 5x

 

[yamaci17]

not worth it

 

[cormack12]

Things don't look sharp anymore if you use your native resolution without DLSS, do you know why? TAA.

Most modern high-end engines have TAA integrated into the rendering pipeline, so everything is made with that in mind. TAA is by definition blurry, so even at your native resolution the game will look like shit. Try disabling TAA in a modern game (via a mod or whatever) and see what happens, it's a fucking fizzly mess.

DLSS upscaling is a vastly improved version of TAA, it basically solves most of the problems related to "basic" TAA, with the bonus that you can render at a lower resolution. It's literally a no brainer. It's not perfect but it is a huge improvement.


What does it even mean? TAA and TAAU in Rebirth look like absolute dogshit compared to DLSS4.

I'm not advocating for TAA, please don't think I am. Let me put it another way, could I sit you in front of a 27 inch monitor and you'd be unable to tell me which was rendering at native 4k and which wasn't an upscale? I think it's easy. My mate runs a computer building company, and he's building like 8 computers a day from a workshop run in a self storage facility. I can see the software and I can see the difference. Last weeks was a 4070 super for example. It's why I'm still not jumping in myself (aside from Play Anywhere and Xbox Live).

I'm not saying DLSS is shit. Frame Gen is shite - not on board with that at all. I think it's just oversold in the quest for PC gamers to avoid saying they are compromising on raw quality.

Times change. Twenty years ago people on PC didn't use Xbox pads to play games, whereas nowadays millions do.

I've already made that comparison but it's not really apples for apples. Auto aim got better and ubiquitous with cross play which led to bigger uptake. Controller is inherently inferior as a raw input to kbm.

 

[mindfreak191]

Those saying that there’s no discernible difference when setting dlss to ultra performance, this is your yearly reminder to get your eyes checked.

 

[Trilobit]

Switch 2 games are going to be lit!

 

[Schmick]

You might lose some hands in the process, but sure, lossless is grrreeaatt.

Perhaps you should update your knowledge on Lossless Scaling. 2.1 has been superseeded.

 

[Radical_3d]

I'm interested to see if the larger gaming fanbase treats frame gen like they did dlss at first

I full expect ps6 and beyond to use frame gen. I imagine it will be accepted once Cerny talks about it.

No. A 30fps game is a 30fps game no matter how smooth you make it afterwards. The response times are just not there. The OP is right that in a slow paced game you won’t miss it that much (idk about fast camera panning, tho). But in the rest of the games it’s going to feel ass.

 

[mèx]

I'm not advocating for TAA, please don't think I am. Let me put it another way, could I sit you in front of a 27 inch monitor and you'd be unable to tell me which was rendering at native 4k and which wasn't an upscale? I think it's easy. My mate runs a computer building company, and he's building like 8 computers a day from a workshop run in a self storage facility. I can see the software and I can see the difference. Last weeks was a 4070 super for example. It's why I'm still not jumping in myself (aside from Play Anywhere and Xbox Live).

I'm not saying DLSS is shit. Frame Gen is shite - not on board with that at all. I think it's just oversold in the quest for PC gamers to avoid saying they are compromising on raw quality.

So you are making a 1:1 comparison technology-wise, i.e. comparing DLAA with DLSS quality and saying that DLAA (so "native") still looks better. Fair enough, that's true. Having a higher input resolution is always better and to some degree noticeable in motion. Still, native TAA vs DLSS quality is a home-run win for DLSS anytime of the day.

Regarding frame gen, the technology is still in its infancy so it's hard to completely judge. Currently it has to be used with "high" base framerate (at least 60, 70 or 80 would be ideal to counteract the input latency). And even with that, some degree of artifacting in some scenarios is expected. So it's far from perfect... In a lot of cases it's used by the developes as a crutch, so the results are terrible, but that's not the fault of the technology. Using it with a 30 base FPS is mental.

Frame gen is most likely the only way we will be able to fully use high refresh rate monitors: as the rendering gets more complex and the gains related to die shrinking slow down, there are few alternatives currently.
And I wouldn't downplay the massive difference that motion clarity does to a videogame. Try playing a game for a time at 240 or 120 FPS, and then revert it back to 60 FPS: it will look pretty bad in motion, almost juddery.

 

[DirtInUrEye]

How can be that DLSS is now better than NATIVE or TAA? I dont get it. Someone can explain it to me? (not talking about the FPS. Im talking about image quality)

You on AMD?

 

[DirtInUrEye]

I've already made that comparison but it's not really apples for apples. Auto aim got better and ubiquitous with cross play which led to bigger uptake. Controller is inherently inferior as a raw input to kbm.

You're missing the point of my controller comparison in relation to your original point about how you say things were always a certain way for 20 years.

 

[mhirano]

How can be that DLSS is now better than NATIVE or TAA? I dont get it. Someone can explain it to me? (not talking about the FPS. Im talking about image quality)

"Better" as in more detail. But this is relative, because a purist will prefer the true 4k image even if it has less (artifical) detail.