Funchameleon
Banned
That quote is not literally saying the skill ceiling is lower for advanced players, it's poorly trying to communicate that it only matters to them.
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DmC |OT| No, F*ck You!
- Thread starter Goon Boon
- Start date
Fried Food
Banned
on mission 17 now. The game isn't bad. The combat is good and I can imagine myself having fun with the bloody palace mode once its released.
But really the whole thing makes me realize just how great bayonnetta was and is. No game has topped the combat of bayo in terms of depth+responsiveness. You can input moves as fast as you can think of them in that game. It's like your brain is synching directly to the game.
But really the whole thing makes me realize just how great bayonnetta was and is. No game has topped the combat of bayo in terms of depth+responsiveness. You can input moves as fast as you can think of them in that game. It's like your brain is synching directly to the game.
Well yeah that was my point.
Glass Rebel
Member
Nobody is arguing this, it was about about a fixed smceiling vs. a perceived one.
Well, that's kinda obvious with Nero's limited toolset. Uncle Dante on the other hand...
Kablooey. 4+ darts and they usually fall to their knees allowing you to pull them down with demon pull. Demon dodge away from their charges as well. Trinity Smash them on the ground.
Pretty simple once you get the techniques down.
Someone asked to rank the series so here is my ranking:
God Tier:
DMC1
DMC3SE
DMC1 and DMC3SE are not only 2 of the best action games ever made but 2 of the best games on the PS2. It's very easy to take for granted after a decade that these games were made with inferior hardware yet their game play still stands tall above so many other games. I like DMC1 and DMC3SE for different reasons and I prefer one over the other depending upon my mood. DMC1 is a more complete package of being an action/adventure game while also basically inventing the genre but DMC3SE pushed the genre to new heights while also adding more personality to the cutscenes of DMC (a very under appreciated aspect of DMC3 I feel). DMC3 also has the best story and characters of the DMC series I feel plus the most satisfying ending. Both aren't perfect games, DMC1 is let down by stuff like swimming/flying missions while DMC3 is let down by it's cannon fodder enemy types (some are good). I would rate both games around a 9.5.
Top Tier:
DMC4
Overall I feel that DMC4 was a bit of a letdown after DMC3 because the promise of new hardware warranted everything being bigger and better than before. While we did get arguably the best combat engine in the DMC series, I felt that the actual content in the game was lacking especially in its level design and even the weapons (DMC3 had more weapons). Still though the combat was insanely polished and DMC4 improved upon the enemy designs of DMC3 so that every enemy is fully comboable. Stuff like Leaderboards, new move purchasing system and the best Bloody Palace in the series still keeps this very high among the DMC games.
8.5 - 9 Depending upon my mood.
High Tier:
DmC
Very different from the mainline DMC games. It doesn't have the top tier combat of DMC3/DMC4 yet also does not have the atmosphere and enemy design of the original plus does not have the great boss fights of any of the DMC games... but it is still a very good action game and does all the various aspects of DMC at least at an above average level. The artstyle is the most unique of the series and has more indepth platforming than the other games if you like that sort of stuff. I feel that DmC does not excel in any one category over other DMC games (the artstyle is subjective, I still prefer DMC1's artstyle) but it does just about all the categories of a DMC well enough to be a considered a good DMC game and by extension a very good action game.
8
Shit Tier:
DMC2
DMC series has 4/5 good games at the minimum... well DMC2 is that 5th game and it's shit. No need to go over why it's shit, just know that it is.
When I first played the game I rated it 6/10 but now I know that was too generous. Now I give it a 4/10 especially after playing DMC3.
4
God Tier:
DMC1
DMC3SE
DMC1 and DMC3SE are not only 2 of the best action games ever made but 2 of the best games on the PS2. It's very easy to take for granted after a decade that these games were made with inferior hardware yet their game play still stands tall above so many other games. I like DMC1 and DMC3SE for different reasons and I prefer one over the other depending upon my mood. DMC1 is a more complete package of being an action/adventure game while also basically inventing the genre but DMC3SE pushed the genre to new heights while also adding more personality to the cutscenes of DMC (a very under appreciated aspect of DMC3 I feel). DMC3 also has the best story and characters of the DMC series I feel plus the most satisfying ending. Both aren't perfect games, DMC1 is let down by stuff like swimming/flying missions while DMC3 is let down by it's cannon fodder enemy types (some are good). I would rate both games around a 9.5.
Top Tier:
DMC4
Overall I feel that DMC4 was a bit of a letdown after DMC3 because the promise of new hardware warranted everything being bigger and better than before. While we did get arguably the best combat engine in the DMC series, I felt that the actual content in the game was lacking especially in its level design and even the weapons (DMC3 had more weapons). Still though the combat was insanely polished and DMC4 improved upon the enemy designs of DMC3 so that every enemy is fully comboable. Stuff like Leaderboards, new move purchasing system and the best Bloody Palace in the series still keeps this very high among the DMC games.
8.5 - 9 Depending upon my mood.
High Tier:
DmC
Very different from the mainline DMC games. It doesn't have the top tier combat of DMC3/DMC4 yet also does not have the atmosphere and enemy design of the original plus does not have the great boss fights of any of the DMC games... but it is still a very good action game and does all the various aspects of DMC at least at an above average level. The artstyle is the most unique of the series and has more indepth platforming than the other games if you like that sort of stuff. I feel that DmC does not excel in any one category over other DMC games (the artstyle is subjective, I still prefer DMC1's artstyle) but it does just about all the categories of a DMC well enough to be a considered a good DMC game and by extension a very good action game.
8
Shit Tier:
DMC2
DMC series has 4/5 good games at the minimum... well DMC2 is that 5th game and it's shit. No need to go over why it's shit, just know that it is.
When I first played the game I rated it 6/10 but now I know that was too generous. Now I give it a 4/10 especially after playing DMC3.
4
i just finished the game under nephilim difficulty
here what i think about this game
pros:
+ fun gameplay
+a lot of combo and weapons
+ the difficulty after nephilim is really challenging
+ level design very good, i enjoyed some levels too much
cons:
- the filters used in limbo world, WTF....some time its shiny RED and some times is shiny Blue,and the devil trigger is shiny white, my head start the hurts
- sound and music....DUBSTEP ? Really NT ? DUBSTEP ? can't you find some thing better ? like some metal or even rock
- the story and Profanity , every time my brother walk in he think i am watching some P%%n
- very easy boss fights and there are 5 bosses ? ( how to post spoilers here ? )
- after you finishing the game, you wont feel to play this game again, so the replay value is bad
i am giving this game 6.5-7 /10 ,,, and i am very generous
here what i think about this game
pros:
+ fun gameplay
+a lot of combo and weapons
+ the difficulty after nephilim is really challenging
+ level design very good, i enjoyed some levels too much
cons:
- the filters used in limbo world, WTF....some time its shiny RED and some times is shiny Blue,and the devil trigger is shiny white, my head start the hurts
- sound and music....DUBSTEP ? Really NT ? DUBSTEP ? can't you find some thing better ? like some metal or even rock
- the story and Profanity , every time my brother walk in he think i am watching some P%%n
- very easy boss fights and there are 5 bosses ? ( how to post spoilers here ? )
- after you finishing the game, you wont feel to play this game again, so the replay value is bad
i am giving this game 6.5-7 /10 ,,, and i am very generous
I wonder if it will also be released some PC mod to change the shitty soundtrack
I don't see the point of a Super Dante in this game. DT truly becomes a win button then. Who would want to play it like that?
Well, Nero only has one gun and one weapon...
Well, Nero only has one gun and one weapon...
So? As does DMC1 Dante at one time. But even with that limited set his depth is substantial and it takes a long ass time to come close to mastering Nero because it boils down to learning just frame timing on all his sword moves and not just his sword moves but the EX versions of those moves as well (timing of max act varies with EX moves as well). You also have to master stuff like Table Hopper, Calibur/Shuffle cancels, DT cancel, Blue Rose charge and Aegis Shield on top of the usual stuff like enemy step.Well, Nero only has one gun and one weapon...
My point is that the skill floor/curve for Nero is very low but the skill ceiling is still high. Of course not as high as DMC4 Dante but I don't think I have seen anything in an action game come close to that yet. DmC has a high skill curve/floor than Nero but lower skill ceiling than Nero. He has more tools but nothing in his arsenal or bag of tricks requires insane execution or skill to pull off especially since you will be spending your time in the air and in the air there are no direction moves so you can basically take your left thumb off the left analog stick and just go ham on the D-pad without worrying too much about positioning. In comparison doing stuff like back, forward + R1 + Y in the air while enemy step/jump cancelling while also MAX act timing the move on its recovery takes quite a bit of execution.
Thanks, will give that a try, haven't really used the guns much
fastballspecial
Member
Finished Devil May Cry last night. I really did love every second of it. The story was so good and thought it to be leaps and bounds better than the stories of the other games. I really hope Ninja Theory gets to expand on this with future games.
Made a quick and dirty diagram concerning the skill floor/ceiling of the DMC games. This is of course my assessment and this will vary from player to player but I feel this is a good ballpark estimation of where the ceilings/floors are for the games relative to each other:
The lower the box is, the easier it is to get into that combat system but the higher the box is the higher its skill ceiling.
DMC1: I feel this is the easiest DMC game to get into because you have the least amount of tools, mechanics and abilities to have to deal with. There are no weapon swaps or even a subset mechanic.... it's basically slashing and shooting with the occasional jumping/rolling. While it's fairly easy to get into it does have some depth. You will soon realize stuff like special cancelling, gun/roll cancelling, enemy step in its most basic form, simple parries etc and incorporating these in to your game makes you a better player. Even then mastering DMC1 is not that hard at all, there are no insane timing requirements in the game it's all about just knowing your enemy.
DMC2: Slightly harder to get into than DMC1 because you have a few more tools to work with plus an on the fly switch mechanic on the guns. But the game has negligible depth and is not worth talking about. Trying to play more skillfully is just counter intuitive in this game... dumb yourself down to beat it and you will have a good ol' drunk time.
DMC3 Dante: As you can see this is a considerable step up from DMC1 not just from the floor but at the ceiling as well. DMC3 has way more stuff in the beginning than DMC1 like a style system and both melee/firearm weapon swap but it has various timing intensive mechanics like a more robust aerial combat system with more timing intensive enemy step, Royal Guard mechanics, in depth buffering and even the time delay/specific aspects of Doppelganger. There are just simply way more options and various mechanics/cancels to figure out and master in DMC3 than DMC1 so the skill ceiling is way higher.
DMC3 Vergil: DMC3 Vergil at a base level is actually harder to get into than DMC3 Dante because he has a very different weapon swap system (2 buttons for melee weapon switching and the button dictates which way you are swapping). Mechanically it's similar to DMC3 Dante but the great number of options aren't there meaning there is way less stuff to master and not only that but there is hardly any timing intensive mechanic to master on Vergil (no RG, Doppelganger, EX Act type stuff). Buffering is very important to Vergil but not that hard to execute.
DMC4 Nero: Nero is easier to get into than DMC3 Dante but not as easy as DMC1 Dante because he has a few more options starting out than DMC1 Dante. The amount of tools that Nero has is not as many as DMC3 Dante but just about every aspect of him has considerable depth. The whole EX system makes Nero an easy to learn, very hard to master character. Some new inputs are added to Nero which also make it harder to master him with stuff like Shuffle and Caliber.
DMC4 Dante: Dante is the hardest character to get into simply because he essentially starts out with a shit ton of tools and there is no real easy way to get to grips with most of his tools. Plus the enemies he is against are more tuned against Nero meaning enemies that should be cake walk for Nero require considerably more skill to take down with Dante and you really need to keep switching weapons/style to match the style gain of Nero. However because of Dante's ridiculous toolset option and the fact that it's all available to him at one time unlike DMC3 puts him at the very top of the skill ceiling of a DMC game. Not only does Dante have all these tools but quite a lot of mechanics on him require specific timing stuff like Full Steam (perfectly releasing Gilgamesh charges), Royal Guard, more complex inputs like on Pandora's Box. The on the fly style switch system makes him a god and because of this he is able to do stuff that is well beyond the scope of the actual game. There is no one on the planet that has claimed to have "mastered" DMC4 Dante and people still push this character more and more after 5 years of grinding.
DmC Dante: DmC Dante is NOT that easy to get into despite there not being a lock on system in place. Even starting out DmC Dante has a ton of abilities and options on him that makes him have a higher floor than either DMC1 Dante and Nero. His toolset is quite immense and is the 2nd highest toolset out of all the DMC games when it comes to availability at a certain moment in the game (DMC3 Dante has the highest but he has to switch loadouts). Because of this DmC Dante's skill ceiling is actually high but he doesn't have many insanely timing requirement mechanics. Most of the mechanics from other games have been made easier like parry, enemy step even the "perfect" release mechanic on charge moves has been made easier from DMC4. Plus because there is no lock on and no air moves require direction input to execute it makes it much easier to swap weapons with D-pad while comboing because you can take your thumb off the left analog stick (unlike with Dante where you need to be locked on while switching weapons/styles in the air and also have to worry about direction input). So his ceiling is lower than DMC3 Dante, Nero and DMC4.
DmC Vergil: Obviously no one has played him yet and this is based on just judging from the videos. Vergil obviously is not going to have as many options as DmC Dante but should follow the same basic structure as him. I don't think he is going to be harder to get into than DmC Dante nor is he going to be a lot easier. It's very unlikely that Vergil is going to have some esoteric timing intensive mechanic like Nero and previous Dante's, the only real unique thing about him is the Doppelganger system which we don't really know yet how it will operate. It's a preliminary assessment but I think it will hold true once the game comes out.
The lower the box is, the easier it is to get into that combat system but the higher the box is the higher its skill ceiling.
DMC1: I feel this is the easiest DMC game to get into because you have the least amount of tools, mechanics and abilities to have to deal with. There are no weapon swaps or even a subset mechanic.... it's basically slashing and shooting with the occasional jumping/rolling. While it's fairly easy to get into it does have some depth. You will soon realize stuff like special cancelling, gun/roll cancelling, enemy step in its most basic form, simple parries etc and incorporating these in to your game makes you a better player. Even then mastering DMC1 is not that hard at all, there are no insane timing requirements in the game it's all about just knowing your enemy.
DMC2: Slightly harder to get into than DMC1 because you have a few more tools to work with plus an on the fly switch mechanic on the guns. But the game has negligible depth and is not worth talking about. Trying to play more skillfully is just counter intuitive in this game... dumb yourself down to beat it and you will have a good ol' drunk time.
DMC3 Dante: As you can see this is a considerable step up from DMC1 not just from the floor but at the ceiling as well. DMC3 has way more stuff in the beginning than DMC1 like a style system and both melee/firearm weapon swap but it has various timing intensive mechanics like a more robust aerial combat system with more timing intensive enemy step, Royal Guard mechanics, in depth buffering and even the time delay/specific aspects of Doppelganger. There are just simply way more options and various mechanics/cancels to figure out and master in DMC3 than DMC1 so the skill ceiling is way higher.
DMC3 Vergil: DMC3 Vergil at a base level is actually harder to get into than DMC3 Dante because he has a very different weapon swap system (2 buttons for melee weapon switching and the button dictates which way you are swapping). Mechanically it's similar to DMC3 Dante but the great number of options aren't there meaning there is way less stuff to master and not only that but there is hardly any timing intensive mechanic to master on Vergil (no RG, Doppelganger, EX Act type stuff). Buffering is very important to Vergil but not that hard to execute.
DMC4 Nero: Nero is easier to get into than DMC3 Dante but not as easy as DMC1 Dante because he has a few more options starting out than DMC1 Dante. The amount of tools that Nero has is not as many as DMC3 Dante but just about every aspect of him has considerable depth. The whole EX system makes Nero an easy to learn, very hard to master character. Some new inputs are added to Nero which also make it harder to master him with stuff like Shuffle and Caliber.
DMC4 Dante: Dante is the hardest character to get into simply because he essentially starts out with a shit ton of tools and there is no real easy way to get to grips with most of his tools. Plus the enemies he is against are more tuned against Nero meaning enemies that should be cake walk for Nero require considerably more skill to take down with Dante and you really need to keep switching weapons/style to match the style gain of Nero. However because of Dante's ridiculous toolset option and the fact that it's all available to him at one time unlike DMC3 puts him at the very top of the skill ceiling of a DMC game. Not only does Dante have all these tools but quite a lot of mechanics on him require specific timing stuff like Full Steam (perfectly releasing Gilgamesh charges), Royal Guard, more complex inputs like on Pandora's Box. The on the fly style switch system makes him a god and because of this he is able to do stuff that is well beyond the scope of the actual game. There is no one on the planet that has claimed to have "mastered" DMC4 Dante and people still push this character more and more after 5 years of grinding.
DmC Dante: DmC Dante is NOT that easy to get into despite there not being a lock on system in place. Even starting out DmC Dante has a ton of abilities and options on him that makes him have a higher floor than either DMC1 Dante and Nero. His toolset is quite immense and is the 2nd highest toolset out of all the DMC games when it comes to availability at a certain moment in the game (DMC3 Dante has the highest but he has to switch loadouts). Because of this DmC Dante's skill ceiling is actually high but he doesn't have many insanely timing requirement mechanics. Most of the mechanics from other games have been made easier like parry, enemy step even the "perfect" release mechanic on charge moves has been made easier from DMC4. Plus because there is no lock on and no air moves require direction input to execute it makes it much easier to swap weapons with D-pad while comboing because you can take your thumb off the left analog stick (unlike with Dante where you need to be locked on while switching weapons/styles in the air and also have to worry about direction input). So his ceiling is lower than DMC3 Dante, Nero and DMC4.
DmC Vergil: Obviously no one has played him yet and this is based on just judging from the videos. Vergil obviously is not going to have as many options as DmC Dante but should follow the same basic structure as him. I don't think he is going to be harder to get into than DmC Dante nor is he going to be a lot easier. It's very unlikely that Vergil is going to have some esoteric timing intensive mechanic like Nero and previous Dante's, the only real unique thing about him is the Doppelganger system which we don't really know yet how it will operate. It's a preliminary assessment but I think it will hold true once the game comes out.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Rank them on the accessibility of Cave shmups
DMC1 dante can be ESP.Galuda
DMC4 Dante can be DDP DOJ
help me out here, pizzaroll
DMC1 dante can be ESP.Galuda
DMC4 Dante can be DDP DOJ
help me out here, pizzaroll
Although many hate on dmc 2, it was the first game in the series that I played and was blown away by. (I was 12)
The combat was impressive, I give it that.
The story(haha what story)
Dante's devil triggers were incredible, especially the one you can activate on red health. I mean the game had its ups and downs. And Dante looked the best IMO. Giving it anything less than 7 is unfair.
The combat was impressive, I give it that.
The story(haha what story)
Dante's devil triggers were incredible, especially the one you can activate on red health. I mean the game had its ups and downs. And Dante looked the best IMO. Giving it anything less than 7 is unfair.
I see this as a common trend among people who liked DMC2.
You should really play DMC1 and DMC2 back to back to see the difference in quality.
DMC2 is mechanically a broken game. The DDT that you are talking about (Desperate Devil Trigger) is essentially the X factor of the game. You become godlike and can defeat bosses very quickly so the game is rewarding you for getting hit. This is just one of the examples of the mechanical problems in the game.
This is why there is no real difference between the skill floor and ceiling of DMC2. Someone new to the game can mashing guns, slash occasionally get hurt and then use DDT to blow through content where as a more skillful player will try to play skillfully and stylishly, not get hit but will still take longer than the new guy to finish.
So apparently this was the design that NT gave to Capcom that they claimed looked more like original Dante than the current one:
Man that looks 10x worse than the current one. Holy shit at those straps... did Nomura design this?
DMC2 is euroshmup tier action game equivalent. Does that count?
Eh, I like it. The face is a bit wonky, but current Dante's face with that outfit, might've been pretty cool. Hopefully it'll be an alternate costume at some point.
On a side note, it wouldn't make release any sooner, but I wish GMG would just send me my key. At least then I could stare at it in my Steam library.
On another side note, I really do think Rebellion might be the best designed weapon in the series, from a cosmetic standpoint. I can't get over how good that sword looks.
On a side note, it wouldn't make release any sooner, but I wish GMG would just send me my key. At least then I could stare at it in my Steam library.
On another side note, I really do think Rebellion might be the best designed weapon in the series, from a cosmetic standpoint. I can't get over how good that sword looks.
Nah man that's definitely Alastor.
Alastor doesn't do it for me. I find it kind of...gaudy doesn't really fit, I don't think, but just ugly. Rebellion is so svelte in comparison.
So, they only changed the hair and outfit, really. Hair was 20x worse with the Mary Sue developer hair, changed that back changed the hair color back after backlash (and "story reasons") and changed the outfit.
And to be honest, that wouldn't have been a bad design if the straps were toned down. But it's still not Dante. It's still Donte and Capcom still would've had issues with some people not accepting it.
But it would've been a little easier to swallow.
What you're telling me that you don't wear belts on your arms?
The outfit on the right is still miles better than the outfit on the left, and I generally like "punk" designs.
But I think the major issue is Donte's hair. Even with the redesign of it, it just looks bad with most outfits.
But I think the major issue is Donte's hair. Even with the redesign of it, it just looks bad with most outfits.
I love the DLC costume on the left. So amazing. Yeah, I get it, we have a lot of coat-lovers in this thread - at least there are other options that are a bit more colorful than usual
I'd like the outfit on the left a ton more, if they didn't have the Taylors at the bottom to top the whole thing off. Looks kinda corny to me.
Personally, I just find the 'Dark' look (BLACK COSTUME) to be lazy. Not just for this game but for any other game that does too. I'm much more in favor of actual changes for alt costumes.
Glass Rebel
Member
They should have gone full Crow with the left design. It just looks weird with the short white hair and the chucks. Brandon Lee is spinning in his grave since this was shown.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
He looks like he's moonlighting for a J-pop band. The shoes definitely match.
Meth Addict Donte wasn't that bad. I just don't think he is "Dante." If NT/Capcom did a different IP than "Devil May Cry" with him, I think the backlash wouldn't have been as hard as it was. (Stupid hair still aside though)
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Belt not worn correctly and pouches, no thanks. It will be interesting to see how the long haired Dante alt will look in the game.
One of my college professors wore Chuck Taylor's. They're for everyone, really, and they'll never go out of style.
So apparently this was the design that NT gave to Capcom that they claimed looked more like original Dante than the current one:
Man that looks 10x worse than the current one. Holy shit at those straps... did Nomura design this?
Now I kind of understand why Capcom told them to make something different
Well after that they made something similar to this:
Not the actual image of course but that's what it was described as (Dante in suspenders, same shitty meth face).
After that came the CG DmC Dante which looked pretty bad as well. The current one is like a much better version of that without the smoking antics thank god.
It's funny to think how the look of Dante could've been WAY WAY worse than what we finally got.
Screw all that. As long as Vergil's Downfall comes with a DMC3 Vergil skin, I'm pretty set in that department.
I'll PM you a link to what he looked like.
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