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[megalowho]

Threads like this make me hate politics. What a shit show from all sides.

OT: It'll be interesting to see the outcome from this.

Agreed, the tone of discourse is real shitty, even if it's mostly being driven by a handful of impassioned (but rude) folks. It's bad all over the political spectrum, republicans constantly tear each other apart with their RINO witch hunts, and even if that's always been politics to an extent it doesn't make it any less disheartening to read through.

I actually went back and watched the 1960 Kennedy/Nixon debate just to remind myself what respectable disagreement looked and sounded like again. I wonder if we'll ever get back there or if the echo chambers of the internet and the 24/7 news cycle that needs to be fed has ruined it for good.

 

[Foffy]

That sounds like you trying to make excuses rather than real talk. Unless someone presents solid information otherwise, interpreting 'unintentional' as 'intentional, but less egregious than what Bernie did' is simply trying to support the claim that the DNC is unfairly targeting Bernie when Clinton when Clinton did similar shit.

Could the DNC be unfairly targeting? That is possible, but I really don't see the point or motivation if they want Clinton to win because Clinton doesnt need any help, and any dramatic change could possibly rebound on Clinton. You magically turning unintentional to intentional with no evidence besides your gut feeling certainly isnt any sort of proof though.

That's not how I was implying it, actually, I still don't think it's an unfair targeting, nor have I said it was. It's more like Hillary's prior incident was minor, where this would be considered major.

I have not excused the actions here whatsoever.

 

[JustenP88]

But this never was punitive. The suspension is until Bernie's campaign explains what happened and proves that all data relating to Hillary's campaign has been deleted. This isn't a "you did wrong so you don't get access" kind of thing.

How the hell do you "prove" the data is all gone? Dirty cloth with data stains?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Agreed, the tone of discourse is real shitty, even if it's mostly being driven by a handful of impassioned (but rude) folks. It's bad all over the political spectrum, republicans constantly tear each other apart with their RINO witch hunts, and even if that's always been politics to an extent it doesn't make it any less disheartening to read through.

I actually went back and watched the 1960 Kennedy/Nixon debate just to remind myself what respectable disagreement looked and sounded like again. I wonder if we'll ever get back there or the echo chambers of the internet and the 24/7 news cycle that needs to be fed has ruined it for good.

Should watch the 1980 GOP debates between Reagan and Bush. You'd think they were weak liberals today.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Cruz is worse. They're both xenophobic twats, but trump randomly has some populist economic beliefs. In the last debate he went off on a tangent about spending 4billion on infrastructure instead of toppling regimes and the Fiorina said he sounded like a democrat.

Don't know why but I think I'd rather have Cruz if I was voting a Republican. He might be worse maybe, but at least he keeps that insulting shit to himself. Sure he wants to bomb the hell out of ISIS, but I have yet to see him insult others, want to ban an entire religion, cause countless hate crimes, condone roughing up protesters at his rallies, make fun of disabled people.

I'd rather have Cruz than Trump.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I still don't know why Sherrod Brown didn't run. Hugely progressive, super popular in an important swing state, younger, good looking...

He would've been a great candidate.

Because the entire DNC establishment is behind Clinton? What do you gain by running in a race you can't win? Sanders was never going to win, his sole purpose was to drag Clinton left. In contrast, Brown will probably run in 2019 if Clinton loses 2016.

 

[HylianTom]

Let's work our way back to common ground guys.

Neither Hillary nor Bernie are a Rep. Neither are anywhere close on the political spectrum to even the most "moderate" Republican.

They are our true foes. Not Hillary, Bernie, or each other.

Yup.

If I were voting in the Dem primary (I'm not), I'd likely back Hillary.. but Bernie as the nominee would have my enthusiastic support. He's fantastic, and I'm not going to begrudge anyone for the simple stance of preferring him.

I *will* direct bile to swing staters who refuse to line-up for the nominee in the general election, be they Hillary or Bernie supporters.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

I would fire all 4 of them.

 

[Fenderputty]

Don't know why but I think I'd rather have Cruz if I was voting a Republican. He might be worse maybe, but at least he keeps that insulting shit to himself. Sure he wants to bomb the hell out of ISIS, but I have yet to see him insult others, want to ban an entire religion, cause countless hate crimes, condone roughing up protesters at his rallies, make fun of disabled people.

I'd rather have Cruz than Trump.

Cruz would be a disaster with a republican controlled house and congress ... A total fucking disaster. He appoint SCOTUS judges too.lefitimatley terrifying to me. I would rather trump than Rubio too, who's also a snake.

 

[Zornack]

But them having access after the window of opportunity had closed doesn't further endanger Hillary's data. If the purpose of revoking access is so they can't get to other candidate's stuff, then it's precautionary - but they can no longer see that stuff, so why isn't the restriction lifted?

If it was exported/saved, the damage is done, being able to see their own data again makes no difference.

I definitely see where you're coming from but I also believe that suspending the campaign's access until an investigation has been carried out concerning the breach of confidential information is within reason.

Yup.

If I were voting in the Dem primary (I'm not), I'd likely back Hillary.. but Bernie as the nominee would have my enthusiastic support. He's fantastic, and I'm not going to begrudge anyone for the simple stance of preferring him.

I *will* direct bile to swing staters who refuse to line-up for the nominee in the general election, be they Hillary or Bernie supporters.

Yeah, same here. I support Hillary over Bernie but would vote for either in a heartbeat in the general.

 

[ivysaur12]

Because the entire DNC establishment is behind Clinton? What do you gain by running in a race you can't win? Sanders was never going to win, his sole purpose was to drag Clinton left. In contrast, Brown will probably run in 2019 if Clinton loses 2016.

See my next post. I'm more confused that there never was a Draft Sherrod movement.

 

[scoobidoo112]

Did you ever address dramatis stealing your soul in post #721? Maybe if you quote my avatar again people will forget.

I have quoted the owners of the database saying that no voter data was stolen. I have quoted the person that was fired being interviewed, stating that no voter data was stolen.

If both those facts are going to be ignored, just because it doesn't fit your narrative of "Bernie Sanders personally broke into Hilary's computer and stole lists of voter data", then I am not going to keep repeating myself.

Yes they were able to access data, completely meaningless data, as per the statement of VAN. But go ahead and add a few more of those red capitalized texts to your OP, totally makes you look like a rational person to have discussions with.

And lol, "Stealing your soul', really? You're going to be this dramatic about it?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

See my next post. I'm more confused that there never was a Draft Sherrod movement.

The RunWarrenRun group was only closed in late June, iirc. There wasn't really time to draft anyone else before the race began, so everyone defected to Sanders.

 

[Piecake]

Agreed, the tone of discourse is real shitty, even if it's mostly being driven by a handful of impassioned (but rude) folks. It's bad all over the political spectrum, republicans constantly tear each other apart with their RINO witch hunts, and even if that's always been politics to an extent it doesn't make it any less disheartening to read through.

I actually went back and watched the 1960 Kennedy/Nixon debate just to remind myself what respectable disagreement looked and sounded like again. I wonder if we'll ever get back there or if the echo chambers of the internet and the 24/7 news cycle that needs to be fed has ruined it for good.

Both sides think their side is more civil than the other side and both sides think their side is justified in their attacks because the other side did it first. And this isnt something new. There was no pristine time where politics was civil and where candidates and their supporters calmly debated the issues like rational, informed citizens. Political debates have always been more about emotions than thinking, more about confirming ones beliefs than challenging ones ideas. I'd argue that the campaigns of the early United States and the years before the Civil War were a lot more vicious, emotional, and partisan than this one.

 

[Htown]

this may be the fastest event-to-lawsuit turnaround I have ever seen

 

[Kusagari]

See my next post. I'm more confused that there never was a Draft Sherrod movement.

Probably because nobody ever talks about him.

Warren and Bernie are kind of the face of progressives on the Democrat side. I can't recall Sherrod ever getting much comparable attention.

 

[Blader]

The RunWarrenRun group was only closed in late June, iirc. There wasn't really time to draft anyone else before the race began, so everyone defected to Sanders.

Or hypothetical Biden.

 

[Arkeband]

LAWSUIT: Caught with his hand in Hillary's cookie jar, Bernie decides to go nuclear on the Democratic Party.

MORE: Holy fuck! Is this the real life?

I hadn't seen these very classy additions to the OP yet. Smh.

 

[Foffy]

Seriously. I actually like sanders more than Hillary. It's just marginal because congress won't allow the things I like about sanders to come to fruition. In the end, I just really don't want a republican to win

I think this is the key to take away from the Democratic run. Bernie is very clearly the issues guy, and while Hillary is that in a much lesser degree, that is still a yacht compared to the anchor any Republican has in store for society.

I hadn't seen these very classy additions to the OP yet. Smh.

I'm quite happy to see many people in this thread call out Cerium's very clear hostility, holier than thou attitude, and sheer pessimism for who is in the "other" group. Clearly one of the most bothersome Hillary fans.

It doesn't even come off as "oh, I just dig her," but more like "she's the savior and the rest are peasants." in almost all of his/her posts about candidates. Infuriating to see.

 

[Cerium]

I hadn't seen these very classy additions to the OP yet. Smh.

The most luxurious, classy, fantastic additions any OP has ever seen.

 

[JustenP88]

I also love how suddenly it's like nobody ever had any doubts about the Clinton's before Sander's and his meddling kids showed up. It's like political history began winter 2015 for some people. I remember what this place was like 2007/2008....

Above all else, I think this is what's actually driving me insane. I feel like there's a memo out there that I missed or something.

 

[Wall]

I like Sherod Brown, but he doesn't seem to have the national presence that someone like Elizabeth Warren does, for whom there was a draft movement.

It's not easy to build the national presence necessary to mount a national primary campaign. Martin O'Malley couldn't do it. Neither could Joe Biden the two times he tried. Plenty of prominent Senators and governors on both sides tried and failed.

That's why I think what Sander's is doing is remarkable even if he doesn't win a single primary considering what he is up against.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

so as of now only one person has been shit canned, even when we know there were multiple people in on it?

Sanders needs to learn the art of the scapegoat and fire obviously expendable people when they just happen to try and tank your campaign.

 

[Foffy]

The most luxurious, classy, fantastic additions any OP has ever seen.

Didn't I warn you you're gonna become a caricature one day?

 

[Cerium]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-dnc-suspension/

Two senior Democrats familiar with the program and the investigation told CNN that the Sanders campaign accessed turnout projections for Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary, a key piece of strategy the Clinton campaign has been working on with modeling and analytics.

The Sanders team, which consisted of four people, ran multiple searches in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina and about 10 March states, including Florida and Colorado. In Iowa and New Hampshire, the Clinton campaign has ranked voters on a scale of 1-100 for turnout, enthusiasm and support, the senior Democrats said. The Sanders campaign ran two searches: "Show me all the Clinton people rated higher than 60" and "Show me all the people rated less than 30." This would be a key way of knowing who Sanders should target in the final weeks before voting: Ignore those above 60, while focus on those below 30, because they are looking for a Clinton alternative and might be open to Sanders.

But they were only doing it to prove that they could!

 

[Arkeband]

so as of now only one person has been shit canned, even when we know there were multiple people in on it?

Sanders needs to learn the art of the scapegoat and fire obviously expendable people when they just happen to try and tank your campaign.

It sounded like two people at most - there were four logins associated with it, but two extras were created by the guy who got fired. So three logins were him.

 

[JustenP88]

so as of now only one person has been shit canned, even when we know there were multiple people in on it?

Sanders needs to learn the art of the scapegoat and fire obviously expendable people when they just happen to try and tank your campaign.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a report somewhere that claimed the other offenders were operating under the orders of their superior (the shitcanned). Putting little guys under the bus because of their boss' fuckery isn't exactly a Sanders thing to do.

 

[megalowho]

I'd argue that the campaigns of the early United States and the years before the Civil War were a lot more vicious, emotional, and partisan than this one.

Absolutely, from Jefferson v. Adams to the Know Nothings it's always been raw. US political history is fascinating in that sense. Don't mean to romanticize the past but I still feel the way we process and discuss political information today is hurting the process and affects discourse in a profoundly negative way.

 

[ivysaur12]

Probably because nobody ever talks about him.

Warren and Bernie are kind of the face of progressives on the Democrat side. I can't recall Sherrod ever getting much comparable attention.

Which is WEIRD

He's:

- A huge progressive
- From a key swing state
- A good speaker
- Attractive and not old

He's not known as a great fundraiser, but on paper, he makes the most sense for a candidate to rally behind from the left. And it never happened.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-dnc-suspension/

But they were only doing it to prove that they could!

oh my

I'm pretty sure I've seen a report somewhere that claimed the other offenders were operating under the orders of their superior (the shitcanned). Putting little guys under the bus because of their boss' fuckery isn't exactly a Sanders thing to do.

You're right, a competent campaign would try and bury this asap and try to live another day instead of having Hillary go on the offensive and point out the data that was stolen. A competent campaign would know that if you try and go on the offensive after something like this the other side is probably going to let those juicy bits flow like the Nile river about what exactly was accessed and the possible consequences of that.

 

[ivysaur12]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-dnc-suspension/

But they were only doing it to prove that they could!

oh Jesus Christ.

 

[onadesertedisland]

The autoplay and zoom out video on CNN is sooooo annoying.

 

[Foffy]

Which is WEIRD

He's:

- A huge progressive
- From a key swing state
- A good speaker
- Attractive and not old

He's not known as a great fundraiser, but on paper, he makes the most sense for a candidate to rally behind from the left. And it never happened.

I don't even know who he is. I had to Google him.

I knew Sanders and Warren's presence for criticizing the status quo of oligarchy, which I appreciate. Is Sherrod of the same cloth?

 

[Volimar]

Which is WEIRD

He's:

- A huge progressive
- From a key swing state
- A good speaker
- Attractive and not old

He's not known as a great fundraiser, but on paper, he makes the most sense for a candidate to rally behind from the left. And it never happened.

But his gravelly voice scares the children!

 

[ivysaur12]

I don't even know who he is. I had to Google him.

I knew Sanders and Warren's presence for criticizing the status quo of oligarchy, which I appreciate. Is Sherrod of the same cloth?

Him, Wyden, and Lahey are probably Sanders's biggest allies in the Senate. Yes.

 

[Piecake]

Absolutely, from Jefferson v. Adams to the Know Nothings it's always been raw. US political history is fascinating in that sense. Don't mean to romanticize the past but I still feel the way we process and discuss political information today is hurting the process and affects the discourse in a profoundly negative way.

The problem is that is the natural or learned way that we process and discuss any information. In order to change that, you would have to fundamentally change how we see and do debate and argument. We have seen it and continue to see it as a contest between two opposing sides where one side comes out the winner. It is a battle of words where winning is important, not understanding where the other side is coming from or being better informed on new issues, or changing your opinion by being introduced to new info, etc.

That isnt something you can blame on cable news and the internet because it doesnt originate with the internet. The only thing those two aspects do is make it far more obvious is that is how we think and argue. If you want to change this, you are going to have to dramatically change our culture of communication.

 

[MThanded]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-dnc-suspension/

But they were only doing it to prove that they could!

hmm

 

[Fenderputty]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-dnc-suspension/

But they were only doing it to prove that they could!

Clearly CNN is also a Clinton mole

 

[ivysaur12]

Clearly CNN is also a Clinton mole

Clinton News Network is back!!!

 

[Fenderputty]

Why did the thread get quiet?

 

[Cerium]

Why did the thread get quiet?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=189827087&postcount=925

Bernie defense force gone radio silent.

 

[Suikoguy]

Clinton News Network is back!!!

That takes me back, lol.

Edit:
Is their lawsuit claiming that they did not do anything wrong, or that they should still have access to their own data even though they fucked up?

 

[Fenderputty]

That takes me back, lol.

Edit:
Is their lawsuit claiming that they did not do anything wrong, or that they should still have access to their own data even though they fucked up?

DWS should give him access regardless. All restricting access is doing is giving the ErasureAcers of the world a reason to cling tighter to their pathetic conspiracy theories

 

[Hopfrog]

Both sides think their side is more civil than the other side and both sides think their side is justified in their attacks because the other side did it first. And this isnt something new. There was no pristine time where politics was civil and where candidates and their supporters calmly debated the issues like rational, informed citizens. Political debates have always been more about emotions than thinking, more about confirming ones beliefs than challenging ones ideas. I'd argue that the campaigns of the early United States and the years before the Civil War were a lot more vicious, emotional, and partisan than this one.

Truth. Go back and read some of the material from 1800, 1824, 1828, 1832, the list goes on. Vicious stuff.

 

[Cerium]

DWS should give him access regardless. All restricting access is doing is giving the ErasureAcers of the world a reason to cling tighter to their pathetic conspiracy theories

Honestly, at this point I fully believe that Bernie still has the data and that his advisers are convinced they can have their cake and eat it too.

 

[BertramCooper]

DWS should give him access regardless. All restricting access is doing is giving the ErasureAcers of the world a reason to cling tighter to their pathetic conspiracy theories

Oh my god can you imagine what ErasureAcer would be posting right now had he not gotten his dumb ass banned?

 

[Foffy]

DWS should give him access regardless. All restricting access is doing is giving the ErasureAcers of the world a reason to cling tighter to their pathetic conspiracy theories

Isn't there also supposed to be protocols for warning and giving a few days notice before removing access immediately? I forget if it was in this thread or the general PoliGAF thread, but someone brought it up and if true, that's simply shady shit. Almost as shady as the snooping.

 

[Wall]

That takes me back, lol.

Edit:
Is their lawsuit claiming that they did not do anything wrong, or that they should still have access to their own data even though they fucked up?

The lawsuit is for access to the data. Apparently a high level staffer for the Sander's campaign knew about a short window (45 minutes) during which proprietary Clinton campaign data was not protected by a firewall. That staffer and an unknown number of underlings (not more than four) accessed the data during that window. The staffer was promptly fired, so I don't think anyone is arguing that no wrongdoing occurred.

 

[royalan]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-dnc-suspension/

But they were only doing it to prove that they could!

Whoa.

As much as I like Bernie (even though I'm voting Hillary), if this is accurate then there definitely should be some consequences for this. Bernie's camp basically has Hillary's playbook for some key states.

 

[Trigger Warning]

Democrats are gonna get the candidate that they deserve