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[Zornack]

Isn't there also supposed to be protocols for warning and giving a few days notice before removing access immediately? I forget if it was in this thread or the general PoliGAF thread, but someone brought it up and if true, that's simply shady shit. Almost as shady as the snooping.

The agreement states that a written notice and a 10 day grace period is required before terminating the agreement, but it also states that the DNC will take any means necessary in order to protect its confidential information.

 

[CDX]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-dnc-suspension/

Two senior Democrats familiar with the program and the investigation told CNN that the Sanders campaign accessed turnout projections for Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary, a key piece of strategy the Clinton campaign has been working on with modeling and analytics.

The Sanders team, which consisted of four people, ran multiple searches in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina and about 10 March states, including Florida and Colorado. In Iowa and New Hampshire, the Clinton campaign has ranked voters on a scale of 1-100 for turnout, enthusiasm and support, the senior Democrats said. The Sanders campaign ran two searches: "Show me all the Clinton people rated higher than 60" and "Show me all the people rated less than 30." This would be a key way of knowing who Sanders should target in the final weeks before voting: Ignore those above 60, while focus on those below 30, because they are looking for a Clinton alternative and might be open to Sanders.

But they were only doing it to prove that they could!

hmmm.... Those were some pretty specific searches they were doing. Just to prove a glitch gave them access. And not because they wanted to look at or possibly use any of the data.

What truly altruistic saints they were. /s




A shame, it seems based on those actions, Bernie had some shady and dumb people working for him. His campaign is literally imploding because of his very own campaign staff.

 

[Suikoguy]

The lawsuit is for access to the data. Apparently a high level staffer for the Sander's campaign knew about a short window (45 minutes) during which proprietary Clinton campaign data was not protected by a firewall. That staffer and an unknown number of underlings (not more than four) accessed the data during that window. The staffer was promptly fired, so I don't think anyone is arguing that no wrongdoing occurred.

The guy fired was making statements that he did nothing wrong.
That's why I was wondering if the Sanders Campaign was going to take a similar stance.

 

[Elfforkusu]

Wait, they didn't even hack in, they just (accidentally) were given access?

:lol

 

[Suikoguy]

Wait, they didn't even hack in, they just (accidentally) were given access?

:lol

Software bugs or accidents don't give you carte blanche to access whatever you want.
Just like someone who forgot to lock their safe does not give you the right to see what is in it, or take whatever you want.

 

[Foffy]

The agreement states that a written notice and a 10 day grace period is required before terminating the agreement, but it also states that the DNC will take any means necessary in order to protect its confidential information.

..You know people will be spinning this in the veil that because he doesn't traditionally side with a particular party, that's their excuse to be harsh on him. Even if that isn't true, that's the narrative already.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Oh my god can you imagine what ErasureAcer would be posting right now had he not gotten his dumb ass banned?

but he ISN'T banned, he has like 10 posts in this thread

 

[norm9]

That rap music is a bad influence on Bernie.

 

[Fenderputty]

Honestly, at this point I fully believe that Bernie still has the data and that his advisers are convinced they can have their cake and eat it too.

Cool. Give him his access and have Clinton work harder for votes. She's gonna win this thing.

Oh my god can you imagine what ErasureAcer would be posting right now had he not gotten his dumb ass banned?

Damn he got banned? O well

Isn't there also supposed to be protocols for warning and giving a few days notice before removing access immediately? I forget if it was in this thread or the general PoliGAF thread, but someone brought it up and if true, that's simply shady shit. Almost as shady as the snooping.

Don't know. It's not as shady duder. Removing his access for 24-48 hours is nothing compared having the the data he gathered. I just don't care. Give his access back and quiet the shitshow

 

[DECK'ARD]

This was incredibly dumb.

The Bernie Sanders subreddit is in complete meltdown.

 

[Cipherr]

When was the last time Bernie crowd shat on a Hilary thread on GAF?

The first reply of this thread is literally someone bringing up Hillary like INSTANTLY just to call out how inferior she is to Bernie. There is literally nothing in that reply that speaks to the topic at all. Nothing....

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Wonder if this will come up in the debate tomorrow. Btw, I find it hilarious that the Dem debate is once again happening on Saturday. Tomorrow night it is competing against an NFL football game even. Lol, great job DNC.

That's another thing: this all happens right before the debate? C'mon now, it's more than a little suspect.

I'm not saying Hilary's directly responsible whatsoever, but is it too far-fetched to believe there are those associated w/ her that have a vested interest in her winning and are in strong positions of socio-political/economic power who could have enabled her databases to have weak security, and could have put some people in on Bernie's staff to eventually enable what's happened, to happen?

I just think stuff needs to be looked into further on both sides. Hell, let's look through Trump's people too; you can't rule them out. The important thing is, never rule out possibilities, and in the world of big-stage politics the most obvious answer is usually too simple and therefore too convenient. You have to look deeper.

 

[Elfforkusu]

Software bugs or accidents don't give you carte blanche to access whatever you want.
Just like someone who forgot to lock their safe does not give you the right to see what is in it, or take whatever you want.

'I looked in your safe. I probably shouldn't have done that, sorry.'

'isn't it locked?'

'turns out, no.'


But I agree. I just don't really care

 

[BertramCooper]

but he ISN'T banned, he has like 10 posts in this thread

Damn he got banned? O well

Hahaha. Didn't realize he was back. I figured he had been perma'd.

 

[ephemeral garbage]

it also states that the DNC will take any means necessary in order to protect its confidential information.

I guess "any means necessary" doesn't include basic security checks, lol.

You have a multi-user system where your users are in strict competition with each other and you 'accidentally' have periods of time with no authorization checks on data? Bernie was definitely right to fire those assholes but I would hope there are some heads rolling at the DNC and NGP VAN over this too.

 

[Zornack]

That's another thing: this all happens right before the debate? C'mon now, it's more than a little suspect.

I'm not saying Hilary's directly responsible whatsoever, but is it too far-fetched to believe there are those associated w/ her that have a vested interest in her winning and are in strong positions of socio-political/economic power who could have enabled her databases to have weak security, and could have put some people in on Bernie's staff to eventually enable what's happened, to happen?

I just think stuff needs to be looked into further on both sides. Hell, let's look through Trump's people too; you can't rule them out. The important thing is, never rule out possibilities, and in the world of big-stage politics the most obvious answer is usually too simple and therefore too convenient. You have to look deeper.

What is suspect? Everyone involved has admitted that the breach happened. The staffer, both campaigns, the DNC and the vendor. Do you really believe they are all lying? Or that the Bernie staffer, the DNC and Hillary's campaign are in cahoots?

At this point what is in contention is Bernie's campaign's suspension from voter information and exactly what Bernie's staffers did with the information of Hillary's that they searched for.

I guess "any means necessary" doesn't include basic security checks, lol.

You have a multi-user system where your users are in strict competition with each other and you 'accidentally' have periods of time with no authorization checks on data? Bernie was definitely right to fire those assholes but I would hope there are some heads rolling at the DNC and NGP VAN over this too.

Where are you getting the periods of time thing? According to VAN there was a bug in a new release of code.

 

[JustenP88]

You're right, a competent campaign would try and bury this asap and try to live another day instead of having Hillary go on the offensive and point out the data that was stolen. A competent campaign would know that if you try and go on the offensive after something like this the other side is probably going to let those juicy bits flow like the Nile river about what exactly was accessed and the possible consequences of that.

I'm not really concerned with what a "competent" campaign would do about this. This is a unique election. Bernie is a unique politician. People have been decrying his campaign's incompetence since day one, but he's gotten more accomplished than pretty much anyone thought they would to this point despite their alleged idiocy.

Two points:

Is Trump running a "competent" campaign?

What does a longshot candidate who's currently trailing by ~30% have to lose at this point? What does said candidate have to gain by sheepishly apologizing and rolling over to accept the DNC's punishment which, at a critical time like this, could end up being their official Cause of Death?

 

[Foffy]

That's another thing: this all happens right before the debate? C'mon now, it's more than a little suspect.

I'm not saying Hilary's directly responsible whatsoever, but is it too far-fetched to believe there are those associated w/ her that have a vested interest in her winning and are in strong positions of socio-political/economic power who could have enabled her databases to have weak security, and could have put some people in on Bernie's staff to eventually enable what's happened, to happen?

I just think stuff needs to be looked into further on both sides. Hell, let's look through Trump's people too; you can't rule them out. The important thing is, never rule out possibilities, and in the world of big-stage politics the most obvious answer is usually too simple and therefore too convenient. You have to look deeper.

This is more on the window when the information was available.

Do you really think a debate on a Saturday night, the weekend before a consumerist holiday will be the epicenter to bury a campaign? There's barely a fucking prime time on Saturdays.

Nobody will care tomorrow, because nobody will be watching the debate tomorrow.

 

[Malvolio]

Why are two senior Democrats releasing information in what I assume is an ongoing investigation to the press?

 

[Wall]

Software bugs or accidents don't give you carte blanche to access whatever you want.
Just like someone who forgot to lock their safe does not give you the right to see what is in it, or take whatever you want.

Well, they fired the guy, so he isn't exactly getting a ringing endorsement.

From what I can tell, they are downolaying the incident, though. It doesn't exactly look good.

Still, I'm surprised that the focus seems more to be about the Sander's campaign being barred from non-proprietary data as punishment. The Clinton campaign is getting a surprising amount of pushback.

Edit: Crap. I replied to the wrong post. I was trying to reply to your question to me.

 

[Cerium]

Why are two senior Democrats releasing information in what I assume is an ongoing investigation to the press?

Why does the Sanders campaign keep lying to the press? First they claimed it was only a single low level staffer. Then they claimed they never took any data. Then they claimed they took data, only it was just to prove that there was a glitch. Then they filed a fucking lawsuit against the Democratic Party.

 

[Zornack]

Why are two senior Democrats releasing information in what I assume is an ongoing investigation to the press?

I believe what happened is that VAN released a log of what took place and two Democrats familiar with the system parsed it to see exactly what happened. I'm not certain but I believe that's where the information is coming from.

 

[HerbertBirdsfoot]

I guess "any means necessary" doesn't include basic security checks, lol.

You have a multi-user system where your users are in strict competition with each other and you 'accidentally' have periods of time with no authorization checks on data? Bernie was definitely right to fire those assholes but I would hope there are some heads rolling at the DNC and NGP VAN over this too.

I'm a software developer by profession and a very strong supporter of the Democratic party.

What a shit show. I've given to Democratic candidates in the past and deal with lots of phone calls from Democrats doing fundraising. Pissed off that this is the level of organization my money pays for.

This reflects very poorly on the DNC and you are absolutely right that heads must roll. Debbie Wasserman Schultz won't survive this and should not.

 

[royalan]

Why are two senior Democrats releasing information in what I assume is an ongoing investigation to the press?

Well, Hillary's campaign certainly has all the reason to hype this up. Sanders had been riding high on public opinion that he's not "just another politician". Showing the public that he (or, at least, his team) is playing the game just as much as everyone else definitely let's the steam out of that. I expect Hillary's team to make a huge deal out of this.

 

[ephemeral garbage]

Where are you getting the periods of time thing? According to VAN there was a bug in a new release of code.

From Time, it was either linked in the OP earlier, or I followed a link to it from the Time story in the OP.

The Sanders campaign said that it had raised a red flag with the DNC “months ago,” telling the party that campaign data was made accessible to other presidential campaigns.

“Sadly, the vendor who runs the DNC’s voter file program continues to make serious errors. On more than one occasion, the vendor has dropped the firewall between the data of different Democratic campaigns,” said Briggs. “We are working with the DNC and the vendor and hope that this kind of lapse will not occur again.”

 

[JustenP88]

This reflects very poorly on the DNC and you are absolutely right that heads must roll. Debbie Wasserman Schultz won't survive this and should not.

Hillary supporters should be more worried about this than about Big Bad Bernie.

 

[Wall]

Well, Hillary's campaign certainly has all the reason to hype this up. Sanders had been riding high on public opinion that he's not "just another politician". Showing the public that he (or, at least, his team) is playing the game just as much as everyone else definitely let's the steam out of that. I expect Hillary's team to make a huge deal out of this.

Actually, from the CNN article quoted a short time ago in this thread, the Clinton campaign is trying to downplay it. The Sander's campaign is hyping the lawsuit and sending out messages to its supporters (I got one).

Why? I don't know. Both campaigns are behaving strangely.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Indeed. His message, while credible of itself, is all he can get away with. It will take America time to wake up to what he speaks about to get the change those around him truly want.

Their voices are loud but their presence is small. Until they are loud and large, we will be run with ideas and rules made by the least among us. Even him being president does not change that state of affairs.

There won't BE an America by that point. Say 'hi' to the next superpower.

Or not. We'll all also be dead before America falls.

This is more on the window when the information was available.

Do you really think a debate on a Saturday night, the weekend before a consumerist holiday will be the epicenter to bury a campaign? There's barely a fucking prime time on Saturdays.

Nobody will care tomorrow, because nobody will be watching the debate tomorrow.

It'll make for good leftovers to heat up and serve for Monday. And Tuesday. And Wednesday. You get the idea.

CNN, MSNBC, Fox, Daily Show even...they're gonna be all over this shit. <sigh>

Actually, from the CNN article quoted a short time ago in this thread, the Clinton campaign is trying to downplay it. The Sander's campaign is hyping the lawsuit and sending out messages to its supporters (I got one).

Why? I don't know. Both campaigns are behaving strangely.

Clinton campaign plays the aloof role, looks innocent through projecting an air of indifference.

Sanders campaign continues its being hijacked from within, playing the part it needs to wither out of view and give breathing room for Clinton.

There's nothing strange about it at all.

 

[Zornack]

From Time, it was either linked in the OP earlier, or I followed a link to it from the Time story in the OP.

At ~5:30 in this interview the fired staffer clarifies that the previous security issue was with a different vendor, not VPN.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I'm not really concerned with what a "competent" campaign would do about this. This is a unique election. Bernie is a unique politician. People have been decrying his campaign's incompetence since day one, but he's gotten more accomplished than pretty much anyone thought they would to this point despite their alleged idiocy.

Two points:

Is Trump running a "competent" campaign?

What does a longshot candidate who's currently trailing by ~30% have to lose at this point? What does said candidate have to gain by sheepishly apologizing and rolling over to accept the DNC's punishment which, at a critical time like this, could end up being their official Cause of Death?

What exactly has Bernie done? He's gotten the vote that everyone knew he would, young liberal white dudes. If he was polling better in places that weren't as white as a sugar powdered doughnut you would have an argument, but he isn't.

I would respect Bernie more if he actually attempted to play the game in order to win. I would respect him if the first words out of his mouth weren't "Hi everyone, I'm a democratic socialist", and then wait months to attempt to actually explain what a "democratic socialist" is (and then fail horribly in explaining what it actually is)

I tried to be behind him, I really did. "Maybe he'll explain his very extreme positions, maybe he will be able to convince people". I kept telling myself that.

Then time went on and nothing happened, he just kept saying the same shit that speaks to the same base that we knew would follow him instead of attempting to try and branch out and make a fucking attempt to take a piece of the Hillary pie.

After the first debate I was done, "Oh yea well maybe not a 90% tax rate... but...". WTF Bernie, you can't fucking say shit like that, are you fucking stupid?

He's a fucking joke of a politician, he's right on nearly all the issues (to a degree) but he has zero chops in the political game. That's why I'm pragmatic when it comes to Hillary, because I know that when it comes to policy that has a hope in hell of getting passed she is the best shot, and regardless, her and Bernie stand on the same side of 90% of all the most important current issues.

 

[Nelo Ice]

Can you just imagine Trump winning? I just can't even wrap my head around that.

Let's work our way back to common ground guys.

Neither Hillary nor Bernie are a Rep. Neither are anywhere close on the political spectrum to even the most "moderate" Republican.

They are our true foes. Not Hillary, Bernie, or each other.

Yup, and if a republican won I don't want to live on this planet anymore. The thought sends shivers down my spine.

 

[BertramCooper]

Is Trump running a "competent" campaign?

Removing all of my personal hatred for the man and his horrific message out of the situation, yes, Trump is actually running a competent campaign.

 

[Alucrid]

This was incredibly dumb.

The Bernie Sanders subreddit is in complete meltdown.

i'm not going to visit reddit, but i'll imagine in my head what it's like


and it's hilarious

 

[RPGCrazied]

Yup, and if a republican won I don't want to live on this planet anymore. The thought sends shivers down my spine.

I'll groan and whimper if a republican wins, and deal with it. But I'm serious, if Trump wins from some dark miracle, I'm moving to Canada or somewhere. Not staying here with that man that gets authoritative power of America.

 

[dramatis]

I'm a software developer by profession and a very strong supporter of the Democratic party.

What a shit show. I've given to Democratic candidates in the past and deal with lots of phone calls from Democrats doing fundraising. Pissed off that this is the level of organization my money pays for.

This reflects very poorly on the DNC and you are absolutely right that heads must roll. Debbie Wasserman Schultz won't survive this and should not.

Thing is, VAN is old and even in 2012 people who used it frequently weren't very satisfied with it, but because of all the data it has to handle, it's hard to fund and develop a replacement.

Good news is that there are tech people who formed actual companies (not temp staff for campaigns) that are working on technology for campaigns (specifically...democratic...). I think eventually VAN will have to be replaced.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

What exactly has Bernie done? He's gotten the vote that everyone knew he would, young liberal white dudes. If he was polling better in places that weren't as white as a sugar powdered doughnut you would have an argument, but he isn't.

I would respect Bernie more if he actually attempted to play the game in order to win. I would respect him if the first words out of his mouth weren't "Hi everyone, I'm a democratic socialist", and then wait months to attempt to actually explain what a "democratic socialist" is (and then fail horribly in explaining what it actually is)

I tried to be behind him, I really did. "Maybe he'll explain his very extreme positions, maybe he will be able to convince people". I kept telling myself that.

Then time went on and nothing happened, he just kept saying the same shit that speaks to the same base that we knew would follow him instead of attempting to try and branch out and make a fucking attempt to take a piece of the Hillary pie.

After the first debate I was done, "Oh yea well maybe not a 90% tax rate... but...". WTF Bernie, you can't fucking say shit like that, are you fucking stupid?

He's a fucking joke of a politician, he's right on nearly all the issues (to a degree) but he has zero chops in the political game. That's why I'm pragmatic when it comes to Hillary, because I know that when it comes to policy that has a hope in hell of getting passed she is the best shot, and regardless, her and Bernie stand on the same side of 90% of all the most important current issues.

Go watch the Killer Mike interview. Definite attempt at presenting his ideas to a segment that traditionally doesn't listen to him regularly. Interestingly enough nothing he says there is new policy he's thought of current; he's ALWAYS been in support of the things said in that interview. Funny that.

Better yet also look into his voting record and past actions; he's been very consistent.

Spoiler

Unlike Hilary.

 

[HUELEN10]

Has Sanders publically said anything about this since the new damning developments?

Not his team, but him.

 

[ephemeral garbage]

At ~5:30 in this interview the fired staffer clarifies that the previous security issue was with a different vendor, not VPN.

Ah, thanks, I haven't been watching any video on this yet (still at work). That's even worse, IMO, if the DNC has hired multiple vendors that are dropping the ball like this.

I'm a software developer by profession and a very strong supporter of the Democratic party.

What a shit show. I've given to Democratic candidates in the past and deal with lots of phone calls from Democrats doing fundraising. Pissed off that this is the level of organization my money pays for.

This reflects very poorly on the DNC and you are absolutely right that heads must roll. Debbie Wasserman Schultz won't survive this and should not.

Same here, man.

Spoiler

secret_software_developer_handshake()

I have a little bit of sympathy in that this is to some degree a single-customer application (the DNC) and usually security concerns are a little less relevant in that domain, but... it sounds like these guys are just in "run it on a private network and hope for the best" mode. Ugh.

 

[ErasureAcer]

This was incredibly dumb.

The Bernie Sanders subreddit is in complete meltdown.

By complete meltdown you mean doubling down on their candidate by opening their pocket books and signing petitions condemning the DNC then yeah, you're right.

Bernie was at $516,000 this morning around 6am. Now he's at $546,000 from Reddit users less than 13 hours later. He's gotten 5% of his donations from Reddit today, alone. Then you got petitions out there. The Moveon.org petition is over 200,000 signatures and counting. If all those 200,000 give $5 then that's 1,000,000. I gave $50 to Bernie today. He's cashing in on the DNC's incompetence. Just watched the Shields/Brooks on PBS...they agree the DNC is completely moronic and this will backfire on them...and it is.

No meltdown, but continue to think whatever you want in spite of the facts.

 

[GnawtyDog]

I think there's a growing consensus that Debbie should be gone by the end of this cycle.

 

[Fenderputty]

No meltdown, but continue to think whatever you want in spite of the facts.

The lack of self awareness here is astounding

 

[Wall]

Removing all of my personal hatred for the man and his horrific message out of the situation, yes, Trump is actually running a competent campaign.

He's so competent the leadership of his own party is making contengency plans to mitigate the damage if he is the nominee.

What exactly has Bernie done? He's gotten the vote that everyone knew he would, young liberal white dudes. If he was polling better in places that weren't as white as a sugar powdered doughnut you would have an argument, but he isn't

If you delete the word "dude" after the phrase "young liberal white", your statement would be more accurate. Even so, you can't be competive in a place like New Hampshire just appealing to young people, even though the state is "white as a sugar powdered donut".

 

[B-Dubs]

I think there's a growing consensus that Debbie should be gone by the end of this cycle.

Growing? That's the one thing everyone has always been able to agree on.

 

[teiresias]

I'm not really concerned with what a "competent" campaign would do about this. This is a unique election. Bernie is a unique politician. People have been decrying his campaign's incompetence since day one, but he's gotten more accomplished than pretty much anyone thought they would to this point despite their alleged idiocy.

Two points:

Is Trump running a "competent" campaign?

What does a longshot candidate who's currently trailing by ~30% have to lose at this point? What does said candidate have to gain by sheepishly apologizing and rolling over to accept the DNC's punishment which, at a critical time like this, could end up being their official Cause of Death?

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read tonight.

Basically you're saying that since he's losing that it's admiral he's taken this "unique" approach - which is apparently what you're terming theft of proprietary data mining metrics.

Since he's losing its apparently perfectly alright for them to lie to the press, try to delay any orderly audir of their systems to make sure the stolen data has actually been purged (make no mistake this lawsuit is all about preventing an audit that will reveal they still have those analytics while at the same time retain access they've lost - basically get away with it), and basically act like belligerent children.

This is quite the 180 from supporters that were telling me all about how upstanding Bernie Sanders was supposed to be.

 

[johnsmith]

See my next post. I'm more confused that there never was a Draft Sherrod movement.

Who?

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

By complete meltdown you mean doubling down on their candidate by opening their pocket books and signing petitions condemning the DNC then yeah, you're right.

Bernie was at $516,000 this morning around 6am. Now he's at $546,000 from Reddit users less than 13 hours later. He's gotten 5% of his donations from Reddit today, alone. Then you got petitions out there. The Moveon.org petition is over 200,000 signatures and counting. If all those 200,000 give $5 then that's 1,000,000. I gave $50 to Bernie today. He's cashing in on the DNC's incompetence. Just watched the Shields/Brooks on PBS...they agree the DNC is completely moronic and this will backfire on them...and it is.

No meltdown, but continue to think whatever you want in spite of the facts.

I just went over that subreddit.

It's the definition of an echo chamber, nothing is being talked about, everyone is saying "the political revolution has begun" or something. Complete denial of wrong doing, Bernie is perfect and bla bla bla.

 

[pigeon]

Actually, from the CNN article quoted a short time ago in this thread, the Clinton campaign is trying to downplay it. The Sander's campaign is hyping the lawsuit and sending out messages to its supporters (I got one).

Why? I don't know. Both campaigns are behaving strangely.

That shouldn't surprise you at all. Clinton doesn't benefit from this controversy. As this thread should demonstrate, all it does is fire up Bernie supporters.

 

[grandjedi6]

Lol how did his data team not realize the vendor would track the accounts that accessed the breach?

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

How convenient

My thoughts exactly.

 

[ephemeral garbage]

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read tonight.

Basically you're saying that since he's losing that it's admiral he's taken this "unique" approach - which is apparently what you're terming theft of proprietary data mining metrics.

I think you're misunderstanding the post you're quoting. He's talking about the Sanders campaign's decision to sue the DNC to get their access back. I don't think anybody is claiming that the Sanders campaign itself decided to steal data.