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[Dixon's Jet]

Calling a Hillary a neoconservative for one. Laughable.

Straight out of the Fox News playbook when they call ANY republican who isn't a tea party member a liberal.

Anyone who thinks Hillary is neoconservative on anything has no idea what a neoconservative reactionary actually is.

I'm saying this because I see her as similar to George W. She's far less neoconservative on social issues, but when it comes to overthrowing foreign leaders and instigating conflict we have excellent reason to believe she sides with neocons.

This is a preservation of the neoconservative ideals regarding American global dominance. Hillary is closer to believing that the US is the world police than President Obama.

 

[Zornack]

Seems good enough reason not to overreact to a flaw in their system!

They're not overreacting.

 

[East Lake]

They're not overreacting.

Point taken.

 

[Instro]

Buzzfeed article says:



We'll see how it unfolds throughout the week tho.

Yeah the two articles seem to conflict a bit on that, or at least the NYT article doesn't really mention that point at all. It mentions that the vendor notified the DNC, but not if the vendor was notified by anyone. Curious to see which way it goes.

 

[Kalentan]

Data breeches can't melt steel beams.

I'm really hoping this thread is the height of sarcasm because if not, some of you are legit scaring me as a Bernie supporter.

Honestly at this point it sucks cause it seems that people have simply resigned themselves to the status quo. Many responses in this thread are why things seem to get worse in America, because as soon as their is a glimmer of hope, people squash it out by saying how it was futile anyway and then complain about things are getting worse... And then this repeats.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I'm worried about Bernie's campaign faltering not because I'm specifically devoted to Bernie, I see him as a vessel for good policy (overall) more than anything, but because I'm concerned that if Hillary wins in 2016 and perhaps again in 2020 then there's no way the country will go on to elect yet another dem after her and I'll likely be in my late 40's by the time a serious progressive candidate has a shot at the white house.

 

[Wafflecakes]

I'm saying this because I see her as similar to George W. She's far less neoconservative on social issues, but when it comes to overthrowing foreign leaders and instigating conflict we have excellent reason to believe she sides with neocons.

You should just stop using the term neoconservative if you have no idea what it means.

George W was no neocon. Compared to the Tea Party of today he is a staunch moderate. So even if Hillary was EXACTLY like Bush (which she is far from), it would still be a complete farce.

Hell, Bush proposed immigration reform that his own party rebelled over because it didn't depot illegals and would make it easier to come to America for jobs.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Buzzfeed article says:



We'll see how it unfolds throughout the week tho.

Buzzfeed vs NYT hmmmmm...... Who to trust more...

 

[Volimar]

Buzzfeed vs NYT hmmmmm...... Who to trust more...

You mean who to distrust least? You won't believe what happens next.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Anyone who considers TTIP is a monster but naw let's rather focus on how cool and trendy she is and all

When has Clinton ever been cool or trendy? She literally is known for being the exact opposite. They even made fun of that very fact on her SNL appearance.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

You should just stop using the term neoconservative if you have no idea what it means.

George W was no neocon. Compared to the Tea Party of today he is a staunch moderate. So even if Hillary was EXACTLY like Bush (which she is far from), it would still be a complete farce.

Hell, Bush proposed immigration reform that his own party rebelled over because it didn't depot illegals and would make it easier to come to America for jobs.

You'll have to forgive me for being quite drunk at the moment and misplacing my words.

George W. himself presented a progressive face, this was evident when he originally stated that the US was not at war with Islam.

However, the invasion of Iraq has to be viewed through a neoconservative lens. And in this capacity, Bush 2 can be seen as a tool of the neocons.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You mean who to distrust least? You won't believe what happens next.

Click next after every paragraph to read the rest of this article, only 8 pages of ad revenue.


To be fair buzzfeed has some good in depth stuff but on day to day reporting I'll take what the NYT says over them.

 

[benjipwns]

She's far less neoconservative on social issues

I doubt it? Maybe? I think?

Thanks for this, it will take some time.

 

[Wafflecakes]

You'll have to forgive me for being quite drunk at the moment and misplacing my words.

George W. himself presented a progressive face, this was evident when he originally stated that the US was not at war with Islam.

However, the invasion of Iraq has to be viewed through a neoconservative lens. And in this capacity, Bush 2 can be seen as a tool of the necons.

It really doesn't.

You forget that the VAST majority of Americans supported the invasion initially. By definition, that prevents it from being considered a neoconservative position.

 

[Condom]

When has Clinton ever been cool or trendy? She literally is known for being the exact opposite. They even made fun of that very fact on her SNL appearance.

I was talking about her position on social issues.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I was talking about her position on social issues.

Do you have any proof she wants to start more wars? I don't think the Democratic party wants anything to do with more wars.

 

[benjipwns]

You forget that the VAST majority of Americans supported the invasion initially. By definition, that prevents it from being considered a neoconservative position.

It can be both.

 

[zero shift]

How convenient

.

The DNC wants Sanders to "prove the file is deleted?"

Sounds more like they're ready to coronate Hillary and don't want to run the risk of her being embarrassed by this turning into a campaign. You can't prove a file is deleted more than you can any other negative.

These are the ONLY posts in this thread that say this was a conspiracy, and they happened within the first 13 posts. Yet this thread is packed with dog piling at rabid Bernie fans for being out of control with their tinfoil hats. Way to shit up a thread guys.

I can't wait until the primaries are over. PoliGaf threads are so fucking embarrassing.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

I doubt it? Maybe? I think?

Thanks for this, it will take some time.

She evolves when she needs to catch up with liberal positions.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

It really doesn't.

You forget that the VAST majority of Americans supported the invasion initially. By definition, that prevents it from being considered a neoconservative position.

The lies about the Iraq war really speak to my argument here. The American people didn't have the right idea about it because the leadership fed them lies. What do you expect them to do in a time of fear?

 

[Wafflecakes]

It can be both.

Not really.

Arguing that a politician is a neoconservative for supporting a position that the vast majority of America held at the time is incredibly facetious at best. A complete deception at worst.

 

[Wafflecakes]

DP :/

The lies about the Iraq war really speak to my argument here. The American people didn't have the right idea about it because the leadership fed them lies. What do you expect them to do in a time of fear?

Unless you can prove that Hillary KNEW that there were no WMD's in Iraq, which you cannot do, then you are just speaking to your own confirmation bias when you argue that she is a neocon.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

DP :/



Unless you can prove that Hillary KNEW that there were no WMD's in Iraq, which you cannot do, then you are just speaking to your own confirmation bias when you argue that she is a neocon.

I didn't say that she knew, but I'll say that she did nothing to learn the truth. Her vote reflects that.

 

[Kite]

These are the ONLY posts in this thread that say this was a conspiracy, and they happened within the first 13 posts. Yet there are like a hundred dog piling at raid Bernie fans for being out of control with the tinfoil hats. Way to shit up a thread guys.

The dog piling seems to be about the crazy things bernie fans are saying and the meltdowns, not just the conspiracy accusations. "Hillary must be stopped at all costs even if a few rules/laws are broken!" lol I'm dying here omfg

 

[Wafflecakes]

I didn't say that she knew, but I'll say that she did nothing to learn the truth. Her vote reflects that.

Once again, confirmation bias unless you can prove this assertion.

 

[Condom]

Do you have any proof she wants to start more wars? I don't think the Democratic party wants anything to do with more wars.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/19/hillary-clinton-isis-strategy-ground-troops-airstrikes-no-fly-zone-syria

 

[zero shift]

The dog piling seems to be about the crazy things bernie fans are saying and the meltdowns, not just the conspiracy accusations. "Hillary must be stopped at all costs even if a few rules/laws are broken!" lol I'm dying here omfg

I still don't see anything like that.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/19/hillary-clinton-isis-strategy-ground-troops-airstrikes-no-fly-zone-syria

Don't see anything there that's a far cry from what we have now. You know there's 4500 personnel in Iraq alone right now?

It's just confirmation bias, you think she's some bloodthirsty warmonger so her words are filtered through that prism in your mind.

 

[The Faceless Master]

why does a good dude like Bernie seem to be perpetually surrounded and supported by assholes?

they keep dragging him down.

 

[excelsiorlef]

These are the ONLY posts in this thread that say this was a conspiracy, and they happened within the first 13 posts. Yet this thread is packed with dog piling at rabid Bernie fans for being out of control with their tinfoil hats. Way to shit up a thread guys.

I can't wait until the primaries are over. PoliGaf threads are so fucking embarrassing.

Well there was also the one who said it was the right thing to do because taking down Hillary must happen by any means necessary, then there are the ones downplaying it like it's not even potentially a big deal and then the one(s?) calling Hillary a neocon and shit.

 

[Wafflecakes]

These are the ONLY posts in this thread that say this was a conspiracy, and they happened within the first 13 posts. Yet this thread is packed with dog piling at rabid Bernie fans for being out of control with their tinfoil hats. Way to shit up a thread guys.

I can't wait until the primaries are over. PoliGaf threads are so fucking embarrassing.

Ummm... the very first post is a love letter to Barnie and hate mail for Hillary.

The level of dismissiveness and aggression that Bernie fans have shown in this thread is telling.

 

[Toxi]

I'm a Clinton supporter, and I don't think I've heard anyone ever call her cool or trendy.

Leaked script of the Clinton campaign's new advertisement targeted at young voters

Yo yo yo dudes and dudettes

Say hello to hip Hilldawg,

The gal's here to stay,

Her polls be risin' faster every day,

She ain't feelin' the bern or gettin' trumped

Cause after twelve hours the GOP's still stumped,

Some say the new Clinton dynasty

Is some sort of tragedy,

But at least she's better than Jeb!

Did I mention BENGHAZI

 

[Condom]

Don't see anything there that's a far cry from what we have now. You know there's 4500 personnel in Iraq alone right now?

lol she is calling for the invasion of Syria. The personnel in Iraq are approved by the Iraqi government so I have no issues with that.

 

[Kite]

I still don't see anything like that.

We also have the gay marriage would have gone through no matter who the president is.. despite the whole supreme court judge nomination thingy. Come on now, you gotta admit this stuff is funny!

 

[zero shift]

Well there was also the one who said it was the right thing to do because taking down Hillary must happen by any means necessary, then there are the ones downplaying it like it's not even potentially a big deal and then the one(s?) calling Hillary a neocon and shit.

So one post I missed and a few supporters of a candidate *gasp* downplaying their errors?

 

[lednerg]

DP :/



Unless you can prove that Hillary KNEW that there were no WMD's in Iraq, which you cannot do, then you are just speaking to your own confirmation bias when you argue that she is a neocon.

I knew there were no WMD's in Iraq, as did most people who were paying attention at the time. The weapons inspectors, led by Hans Blix, told us so. (The US intelligence agencies said the same, but Cheney's Nixonian paranoia kept him from listening to them.) That's where the whole Freedom Fries thing came about, from Republicans who denied the finding of the "Frenchie" weapons inspectors.

 

[Tamanon]

I still don't see anything like that.

?

I don't even care if it was malicious or not, fuck Hilary and her corporate campaign. Within reason the goal justifies the methods to stop her nomination. This might end up badly though looking at the fact that people in general care more about drama than the improvements of their own lives.

 

[Zero315]

I didn't say that she knew, but I'll say that she did nothing to learn the truth. Her vote reflects that.

So is it a known unknown or an unknown unknown?

Seems pretty shady if 4 different logins accessed the data before they reported it, if they even reported it.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

lol she is calling for the invasion of Syria. The personnel in Iraq are approved by the Iraqi government so I have no issues with that.

Once again, the filtered prism is at work here. I'm not seeing anything that remotely resembles an invasion of Syria.

 

[EatinOlives]

What the hell is going on in this thread

 

[zero shift]

We also have the gay marriage would have gone through no matter who the president is.. despite the whole supreme court judge nomination thingy. Come on now, you gotta admit this stuff is funny!

That wasn't my original point. I don't want to move goal posts (not saying you are trying to as you didn't originally reply to me). My original point was about people accusing large swaths of Bernie fans entering this thread being tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists.This thread is compromised ofONE TWO posters making a dumb comments after the initial 13 posts.

?

Okay I missed that one. But skimming through the thread that is literally it. Condrum and Elfforkusu. Hardly worth the dog pile.

 

[Wafflecakes]

I knew there were no WMD's in Iraq, as did most people who were paying attention at the time. The weapons inspectors, led by Hans Blix, told us so. (As did the US intelligence agencies, but Cheney's Nixonian paranoia kept him from listening to them.) That's where the whole Freedom Fries thing came about, from Republicans who denied the finding of the "Frenchie" weapons inspectors.

...and Hillary was supposed to trust the French over the President?

I am not denying that the war was a mistake, but this moronic labeling of anyone who ever supported the war at any point is laughable. Straight out of the GOP playbook, and liberal should not be stooping to that pathetic level. I hate that Bernie fans on this board are making dems look so immature.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

Once again, confirmation bias unless you can prove this assertion.

Eh. She went along with everybody else in Congress who voted for a US administered war without UN oversight. Any objections the UN had to the invasion were ignored. Is she too naive to observe this or draw the conclusions that the US simply can't be this hawkish?

And hawkish is a term which must die.

 

[eBay Huckster]

...and Hillary was supposed to trust the French over the President?

While I'm not of the opinion that Hillary should be raked over the coals 13 years later regarding her Iraq War vote as if she was a tiny John McCain piloting a Hillary-shaped flesh suit, I'm not sure this is the tack I'd be taking

 

[Wafflecakes]

Eh. She went along with everybody else in Congress who voted for a US administered war without UN oversight. Any objections the UN had to the invasion were ignored. Is she too naive to observe this or draw the conclusions that the US simply can't be this hawkish?

And hawkish is a term which must die.

That makes her a moron, not a neocon.

(Not claiming she is a moron, but it was a dumb move.)


Calling someone a "neocon" is about positions on the issues, not competence or past mistakes.

 

[benjipwns]

...and Hillary was supposed to trust the French over the President?

The President isn't the only one with access to classified intelligence. And Hillary admitted eight years ago she didn't bother to read the entire classified intelligence report all the members of Congress were given.

Not really.

Arguing that a politician is a neoconservative for supporting a position that the vast majority of America held at the time is incredibly facetious at best. A complete deception at worst.

Or maybe she supported a neoconservative position that also happened to be a position supported by the "vast majority" which was getting reams of propaganda in part from a significant neoconservative apparatus.

 

[excelsiorlef]

So one post I missed and a few supporters of a candidate *gasp* downplaying their errors?

You also missed additional people believing the DNC is doing this just to shut down Bernie and more general ridiculousness, this thread started off wacky and it's stayed wacky.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

That makes her a moron, not a neocon.

(Not claiming she is a moron, but it was a dumb move.)
Calling someone a "neocon" is about positions on the issues, not competence or past mistakes.

We probably agree about more than this little neogaf back and forth lets on. My concerns with Hillary are simply that she doesn't represent the people. Sanders is flawed as hell but his concessions to populism are admirable even if he truly isn't electable.

I just hate that you can lump Hillary in with George W. when it comes to Iraq and the patriot act. It sucks so badly to be a democrat and to see that the inevitable nominee helped the republicans get their bullshit underway.

 

[zero shift]

You also missed additional people believing the DNC is doing this just to shut down Bernie and more general ridiculousness, this thread started off wacky and it's stayed wacky.

I touched upon those three posts in my first post. There are maybe half a dozen posts in this 150 post thread containing this ridiculousness. There is no wackiness here just people desperately trying to make it that way.

 

[Wafflecakes]

We probably agree about more than this little neogaf back and forth lets on. My concerns with Hillary are simply that she doesn't represent the people. Sanders is flawed as hell but his concessions to populism are admirable even if he truly isn't electable.

I just hate that you can lump Hillary in with George W. when it comes to Iraq and the patriot act. It sucks so badly to be a democrat and to see that the inevitable nominee helped the republicans get their bullshit underway.

I agree that all that sucks, and hell, if I had my way Bernie would be President over Hillary because of those past mistakes.

Still, if my choice is Hillary, who is just ok, or a Republican as President... then the choice is clear to me.