Are you guys serious? You see the DNC at fault here for being too punishing? Four user accounts associated with Bernie's campaign ran searchers on Clinton's information and no one reported the breach to the DNC or NGP VAN. This deserves a suspension until everything is figured out.
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DNC suspends Sanders campaign access to database after staff breached Hillary's data
- Thread starter Cerium
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Are you guys serious? You see the DNC at fault here for being too punishing? Four user accounts associated with Bernie's campaign ran searchers on Clinton's information and no one reported the breach to the DNC or NGP VAN. This deserves a suspension until everything is figured out.
CraigerGamer
Member
The way VAN works, all searches and and database queries are controlled by VAN itself. Depending on the level of access to the VAN, you need permission to download or query certain items.
What happened here was VAN must have updated their system and some of the controls were eliminated allowing the Sander's campaign to see voter modeling saved queries from Clinton's campaign (just a guess). The person accessing the info had high enough security access in the VAN that they could pull the info without permission.
The dude knew he was accessing data he shouldn't have. VAN has 100% ability to see who and what was pulled from the voter file.
While the dude was fired, this is a huge advantage for the Sander's campaign. That information more than likely lays out the entire mail/grassroots/likely voters strategy for Clinton.
Fenderputty
Banned
Clearly these were Clinton moles working against Bernie the whole time.
They have no reason to ban MO'M..... yet. DWS will find a way.
Nah, those people weren't being realistic about his chances then anyway. Obvious denial if that happens.
On GAF? Yeah right. By Republicans? Of course.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Hasn't Hillary been perceived by the public as the "winner" of the last few debates?
If he's trying to "destroy and expose" he's kind of doing a poor job.
digitalrelic
Banned
Uh...
Seriously, that's fucked up.
And_Gignac
Member
Is the suspension definitive? If so yes, the punishment is way too harsh. If the punishment is temporal, it depends how you define "temporal": 1 month?. Too harsh, considering Iowa is just 6 weeks from now. Is campaign-killing stuff.
And the neutrality of Debbie Wasserman has been questioned since a long time ago. She needs to be removed.
benjipwns
Banned
Require candidates to poll at least 4% nationally.
By the media maybe, they're in Hillary hyperdrive.
It makes me sad to see anybody that stupid honestly. Who are they going to vote for then? Trump? Well he's anti-establishment am i rite?
Funny if I was as bad as you and other people are saying you'd expect there would be a quote of me channeling Nixon during the email controversy.
Maybe if media start spinning the whole Nixon narrative you've been pushing.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Yup, that's a Clinton supporter in a nutshell. If Bernie does somehow wins the primary, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Clinton supporters not voting or voting for Republican.
No, the consequences of one campaign intentionally seeing another campaign's data is complete denial of access until the malfeasance is discussed and cleared up, at which point the access will be restored.
Like, I think this is kind of a nothingburger really. They're not going to leave Sanders's access off forever. They're doing it to define some boundaries, and when those boundaries are defined, it will be turned back on.
Yellowtail
Member
It's a suspension till they get a full accounting of what happened.
This can be done in the next 24 hours. The balls in Sanders' court.
According to the WSJ:
Let's remember that the DNC found out about this breach because NGP VAN informed them that something was up. Anything other than a suspension until an explanation is delivered from Benrie's campaign would be inappropriate.
This seems like a weird statement to make given that the only democrats who actively swear they'd never vote for the other candidate are die-hard Bernie supporters.
Well of course there would be. There are extreme elements on both sides. It's just that their position is pretty comfortable at the moment so there is no real reason to freak out. Unfortunately the loons on the Sander's side are making the rest of us look like nuts too.
Veritigo_X
Member
Anything to support this idea? Clinton supporters fell in line in '08, I would expect them to in '16 as well.
Not according to some people...
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
VendettaRed07
Member
I am completely serious.
The reality is this. Hillary has been involved in scandal her entire career. The public sees her as dishonest, and not trustworthy. Why give people a reason to believe that the only other candidate with any serious fanbase was "cheated" out of a chance at winning. Or make this primary seem like it was "corrupt" and they just did what they could to hand Hillary the nomination. This is an image thing, they as a party would not benefit, at all, from suspending Sanders campaign or punishing him. Punish him after the primary if you have to in order to send a message for later. Hillary's email thing has been completely overblown but the DNC has done nothing about it, the public will find it completely hipocritical to let everything she has done slide but take action over this.
Whether a suspension or punishment would is justified or not is irrelevant, it is how the public will react and what they will think about it. If the DNC punishes sanders, is anyone seriously going to go "yeah totally, I mean they had to do it".
True, there are plenty of Hillary supporters who've been trying to push the whole if Bernie is the nominee he would loose to Trump/Cruz or somehow perform worse than Clinton in GE rhetoric. That whole narrative from them is mildly amusing to me and I've called them out several times on it.
Wait, what does the e-mail thing have to do with this at all? That didn't require action from the DNC in the slightest.
So the DNC is being too image conscious about Hilary and not image conscious enough about Sanders or the party's branding?
This is ridiculous. If something similar were found out with Hillary's campaign staffers, people would be crying for blood.
Cow Mengde
Banned
That's weird, cause all the people I talked to would vote Hilary if Sanders loses.
VendettaRed07
Member
They absolutely would be crying for blood.. But what would the Dems do about it? Likely nothing. I don't believe for a second they would ban her from debates over this.
Fenderputty
Banned
Email thing was nothing though, and there were plenty of Bernie folks hanging onto it.
balladofwindfishes
Member
But multiple polls from multiple places (along with the general discussion I've seen on my own Facebook)?
It's all one big anti-Bernie conspiracy?
VendettaRed07
Member
I completely agree with you. But people will make that connection whether it is fair or not, that Hillary is involved in scandal all the time and the dems did nothing, but something that, the public in my opinion, would see as relatively minor in comparison, freak out and ban him or punish him somehow.
Veritigo_X
Member
I agree that he wouldn't lose to Trump or Cruz but there is no proof that he would perform better than Clinton in the GE. GE polls are beyond useless at this point.
And that wasn't what I was talking about anyway.
It's kind of a pointless argument anyway until there is some kind of scientific survey done. I refuse to believe it is a majority because it is exactly what Bernie Sanders would not want. The loud minority will continue to be loud.
vainglorious
Member
Clinton supporter here. I had to use VAN when I was an intern for OFA in 2010 during the midterm and in 2012 for the President's re-election bid. VAN is such a shitty broken mess that this doesn't surprise me at all.
Sucks for the Sanders campaign but they should've reported the issue with the DNC instead of snooping. VAN uses a verified username and account system that's logged with each campaign so why the Sander's people thought they wouldn't get flagged for accessing Clinton's data is pretty amateur hour honestly.
Sucks for the Sanders campaign but they should've reported the issue with the DNC instead of snooping. VAN uses a verified username and account system that's logged with each campaign so why the Sander's people thought they wouldn't get flagged for accessing Clinton's data is pretty amateur hour honestly.
The Lamonster
Member
I don't know all the details here but I do know that the current DNC sucks thanks to bad leadership, so I'll side with the Sanders campaign on this one.
(and I'm an undecided Dem so I have no dog in the fight)
(and I'm an undecided Dem so I have no dog in the fight)
Darling democrats, can you not cannibalize each other? Regardless of how passionate you feel about your candidate of choice, you know you will vote for the other if they win the nomination. If for any moment you doubt that, take another quick look at the Republican candidates.
As for this whole deal? I doubt it goes very high in the Sanders campaign. Those involved will be dismissed and things will go back to the way they were.
When Bernie Sanders loses the nomination (as is probable), I am DAMN sure he will tell his base to vote Hilary.
No left leaning person is voting Republican on principle these days. This isn't 2000 anymore, things are incredibly polarized and I doubt there's a Democrat on earth who wouldn't prefer the worst of theirs over the best of the Republicans.
As for this whole deal? I doubt it goes very high in the Sanders campaign. Those involved will be dismissed and things will go back to the way they were.
When Bernie Sanders loses the nomination (as is probable), I am DAMN sure he will tell his base to vote Hilary.
No left leaning person is voting Republican on principle these days. This isn't 2000 anymore, things are incredibly polarized and I doubt there's a Democrat on earth who wouldn't prefer the worst of theirs over the best of the Republicans.
There are definitely millions of Benrie supporters who would do that, no doubt. I'm talking more about the crazy conspiracy theorists over at Reddot's Bernie sub. There's really very little on Hillary's side like them. Tons of upvoted comments right now proclaiming that they'd never vote for Hilary along with theories that this was all staged to counteract Bernie's 2 million donor news.
I just think "they shouldn't punish Bernie because crazy people will take it the wrong way" is a really, really bad reason to not suspend the campaign until they have an explanation as to what happened. If Bernie's campaign had informed the DNC or the vendor of the breach I would one hundred percent be against the suspension, but considering the way it went down with four accounts accessing Hillary's data and no one from the campaign notifying the DNC or NGP VAN I think a suspension is appropriate.
zero shift
Banned
This misses my point entirely. Yes Bernie fans may have a bit more crazies, but they are in the norm. You pointed out in your post 3 posters in this thread as an example, a troll, and someone who hasn't even posted in this thread. This hardly seems like an epidemic and isn't reason enough for the dog piling that happened earlier. Especially since it initially involved the topic being a conspiracy which only like two posters commend on. Again that is very annoying. It would be one thing if people were trying to have an activite discussion like say Wafflecakes was, but it wasn't. Much of it was just shitty drive by posting.
Regardless, the main reason I am complaining because many Hillary supporters are condescending toward Bernie supporters for their naivety, yes they themselves are just as naive in different ways for the reasons I previously listed.
I didn't position myself in the center, or at least mean to, I just simply said both supporters are being terrible (which they are).
I've seen people regularly put down the importance of capturing the house and even dismissing the benefits of beginning a grassroots strategy.
If this side is so rare that it only pops up in Reddit, how is such a small minority relevant to the discussion?
Do you judge candidate's supporters by Youtube comments as well?
There is no proof of the opposite but doesn't stop people from insinuating such a result.
I see, so that attack on me personally was just e deflection because Bernistas were making similar posts to the one below during email-gate?
So...the same as Hillary supporters in 08
why is an avowed socialist needing to use a democratic party list in the first place for, anyway? is there no socialist VAN list? huh? sounds to me like bernie & co. were not really accessing the list for GOTV purposes, but perhaps something more nefarious, i.e. deleting Clinton contacts or editing personal information. serious breach of decorum, imo.
if bernie & co request more GOTV lists from official democratic sources, DWS should just forward them a list of links to reddit, neogaf, reason & alex jones. heh.
if bernie & co request more GOTV lists from official democratic sources, DWS should just forward them a list of links to reddit, neogaf, reason & alex jones. heh.
Veritigo_X
Member
Pretty much, yeah. It wasn't a good look then, it isn't a good look now.
No, and I'll reiterate that I have no problem with the majority of Benrie supporters I see here or with the majority of them in general. I'm just of the mind that the worst Hillary supporters don't come anywhere near the worst Bernie supporters in content or volume.
I have no problem with people supporting Bernie or with Bernie himself. I take issue with the kind of supporters I see over at his sub.
Yeah, pretty much. I was an Obama guy back in '08. There was a lot of caustic stuff coming from Hillary's side back then.
You know what I really hope happens?
Hillary returns the favor that Bernie did for her during the first debate.
She looks at him, turns to the camera, and says, "Y'know.. it's only been a few days.. but I'm already tired of hearing about the damn server."
And then they do another handshake and mug for the camera as the crowd cheers.
Of course he will.
Sad thing is, there are people even on GAF that are Bernie supporters and are not voting for Hillary. Yeah I don't understand it either.
Yeah, I don't think that's true in the slightest. Maybe you get some apathy. You don't get voting for the other side.
The Lamonster
Member
That'd be great. Democrats need to be united in the end. I don't see this primary being anywhere near as ugly as Obama/Clinton was in 2008.
Bay Maximus
Banned
And you can bet your ass Bernie will be in the debate Saturday. This is just the controversy needed to drum up some ratings in a tough timeslot
Are you suggesting it is Bernie supporters that are petty and that some how all Hillary supporters are enlightened and above that?
We just aren't hearing it because Hillary supporters have no reason at all to be even entertaining the possibility as of now.
Now there could be an argument that Sanders supporters would have MORE people like that, but who wants to have this argument anyway?
I mean, Hillary supporters threatened to do that exact thing last time she was threatened in a primary. She's in a pretty comfy position right now. Turn the poll tables, and her supporters would behave the same.
If the party was interested in ratings, they wouldn't be holding a debate on a Saturday night in the first place.
zero shift
Banned
This is something I will agree with. It is the law of politics that the further on the spectrum (whether left or right) someone is, the more likely they are to be crazy.
I will concede that if I picked ten Bernie supporters randomly from a hat and picked ten Hillary supporters randomly from a hate as well, then it will be likely that at least one of the ten Bernie supporters could be a potential nut. That doesn't mean that there are still 4 highly passionate, defensive, and illogical Hillary supporters on her side, which counters the 4 highly passionate, defensive, and illogical Bernie supporters on his side. The latter sentence is the point I was making.
And Obama won by record turnout and landslide. It just goes to show how the fear of Bernie supporters not voting for Hillary is overblown and over-exaggerated.
VendettaRed07
Member
This is the territory that comes with nominating a divisive candidate with no establishment alternative as a back up for insurance. I'm beginning to lean more Hillary than Sanders at this point but I don't believe, and neither would the public, that had Hillary done the same that the DNC would have taken action against it. They are doing everything in their power to preserve her image, and I get why.. IF Biden was still in it, maybe they would, but not at this point. They wouldn't do anything to damage her campaign, and the public will cry corruption if they punish Sanders and ban him from debates or something, regardless of what people in his camp did. Public perception is important here, they vote. Their is no benefit for them to take any action themselves that would make this primary seem like it wasn't a fair process.
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