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Do you buy this answer from Matt Damon as to why movies are struggling today?

Does Matt Damon's answer check out to you?

  • Yeah, his answer sounds reasonable.

  • No, I think he misses the boat here.


Results are only viewable after voting.

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
https://youtu.be/r3mCQyJI2MI?t=50

TLDW: Streaming has significantly reduced the ceiling on how much money a movie can make today. DVD revenue going extinct forces studios away from the mid budget type of films.

PoliticalHugeGuineafowl-max-1mb.gif
 

DKehoe

Gold Member
I think he makes a good point. A limited theatre run without longer term DVD sales backing it up really limits the kind of movies that get backing since you can't really rely on word of mouth. So that's maybe at least partially why we see such a reliance on franchises now. They're seen as more of a sure thing in the short term. There's so many films that we now think of as being big that did badly at the cinema but found an audience in DVD sales. If I remember right that was the case with Fight Club.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
I think he makes a good point. A limited theatre run without longer term DVD sales backing it up really limits the kind of movies that get backing since you can't really rely on word of mouth. So that's maybe at least partially why we see such a reliance on franchises now. They're seen as more of a sure thing in the short term. There's so many films that we now think of as being big that did badly at the cinema but found an audience in DVD sales. If I remember right that was the case with Fight Club.

I don't know...

When I flip through these streaming services I feel like 90% of it is that low to mid tier budget. Aren't these the projects Matt Damon is referring to?

The only difference is the 15 million dollar productions are dog **** today for some reason.

I think it might have more to do with Hollywood understanding that the teenage demographic is waaaay more profitable to go after than the adult demo.
 

reksveks

Member
There's so many films that we now think of as being big that did badly at the cinema but found an audience in DVD sales. If I remember right that was the case with Fight Club.
Person to person recommendation still happens now in streaming services, the rise of the algorithm and the fact that we have many more options is probably the bigger factor over the distribution method.
 

reksveks

Member
When I flip through these streaming services I feel like 90% of it is that low to mid tier budget. Aren't these the projects Matt Damon is referring to?
Yeah, you get plenty of mid/low budget movies and show across all the services.

Re the point of VHS coming to save a movie after a bag, its a bit of a weird one since physical media still exists and you still generally have the option of buying digitally.

How expensive was the first Knives Out to make?
 

Aesius

Member
I don't know...

When I flip through these streaming services I feel like 90% of it is that low to mid tier budget. Aren't these the projects Matt Damon is referring to?

The only difference is the 15 million dollar productions are dog **** today for some reason.

I think it might have more to do with Hollywood understanding that the teenage demographic is waaaay more profitable to go after than the adult demo.
Millennial women still watch shit aimed at teens. My wife is always watching the latest high school drama on Netflix. In fact, I think a lot of these teen dramas aren't even made for teens, they're made for adults who want to relive their high school days.
 

Crayon

Member
Makes sense. Subscription model has some major downsides and can actually affect the final product. I'm not optimistic about what it will do to videogames but the public seems to love it. I like it, too. I think it's going to lead to pumping out games made by cheap talent that don't have to be all that good because they are super targeted to active and latent fandoms.
 
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DKehoe

Gold Member
Person to person recommendation still happens now in streaming services, the rise of the algorithm and the fact that we have many more options is probably the bigger factor over the distribution method.
Still happens, sure. But the money studios make for selling streaming rights is way lower than someone buying a DVD right? Used to be that revenue from DVD sales were comparable to or even more than box office. Word of mouth causing someone to go out and buy a DVD is much more valuable than them watching it on Netflix or wherever. So if your premise doesn't have a as large an immediate appeal as possible (e.g. "it's the newest entry in that franchise you already know") then you are taking more of a risk than you used to.
 
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reksveks

Member
Still happens, sure. But the money studios make for selling streaming rights is way lower than someone buying a DVD right? Used to be that revenue from DVD sales were comparable to or even more than box office. Word of mouth causing someone to go out and buy a DVD is much more valuable than them watching it on Netflix or wherever. So if your premise doesn't have a as large an immediate appeal as possible (e.g. "it's the newest entry in that franchise you already know") then you are taking more of a risk than you used to.
It would depend on the contract and there is a very different number of scale between dvd sales and streaming views* .

* if that is how the contract is setup.

Looking at the home video market as a whole in the US. It might be a widening of the revenue to more movies but the total market for home video hasnt declined.
SXhkP5K.png


Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/08/the...-dropped-more-than-86percent-in-13-years.html

Maybe these numbers are skewed by TV shows becoming more popular imo.
I think there are bigger issue fundamentally than streaming, like more options.
 

Fbh

Member
To an extent yeah.

But I also think streaming itself has made consuming movies/TV easier and more convenient than ever so the entire prospect of "going to the movies" has become less appealing. Add to it cheaper tech so now (almost) everyone can afford a decently sized TV with a sound bar and I understand why people don't want to get out of the house, drive to the movie theater, pay increasingly more expensive tickets and overpriced Snakcs for anything aside from hyped and hyper marketed blockbuster movies and marvel crap.

With that said there's still plenty of lower budget movies on streaming service. Most of them are crap though, for some reason that I still don't quite get. It's not like they are made super cheaply or with bad actors, but it's like Netflix specifically looks for the worst fucking writers for all their crap.
 

Quasicat

Member
Well yeah, Disney told their stockholders before Covid that they were wanting to phase out physical media due to the ease of piracy; I imagine theaters would see the same impact due to cost. Especially when Disney+ and Hulu were growing in subscribers. I’m not sure if this is still the case.
 
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Hugare

Member
Matt Damon thinks he is smart like in good will hunting but he is really more of the rube he plays in Marvel films.

Streaming killed the music industry and now it is killing movies.
You call him dumb and then you agree with him? I dont get it lol

Streaming really fucked things up.

Most watched movie from Netflix this year? "The Gray Man"? Directed by the Russo brothers, with Ryan Gosling, Chris Evans, Ana de Arma?

lol, course not. It's "Purple Hearts". That 100 dollar budget teen drama.

So why bother spending billions in blockbuster productions if the most watched movie on your platform is going to be freaking Purple Hearts?
 
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VN1X

Banned
Probably because films (regardless of budget) are made by committee now and filled with pandering and messaging. Also, there's no art in it any more which, aside from a few directors that still have the clout to do so, make the majority of the medium a complete waste of time.
 

DKehoe

Gold Member
It would depend on the contract and there is a very different number of scale between dvd sales and streaming views* .

* if that is how the contract is setup.

Looking at the home video market as a whole in the US. It might be a widening of the revenue to more movies but the total market for home video hasnt declined.
SXhkP5K.png


Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/08/the...-dropped-more-than-86percent-in-13-years.html

Maybe these numbers are skewed by TV shows becoming more popular imo.
I think there are bigger issue fundamentally than streaming, like more options.
The market hasn't necessarily declined but the money that goes to the studio has right? Netflix (or whatever platform) takes a big chunk of that money compared to how much the studio got for a DVD sale. It's why all these content holders are trying to pivot into having their own streaming platforms.
 

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
You call him dumb and then you agree with him? I dont get it lol

Streaming really fucked things up.

Most watched movie from Netflix this year? "The Gray Man"? Directed by the Russo brothers, with Ryan Gosling, Chris Evans, Ana de Arma?

lol, course not. It's "Purple Hearts". That 100 dollar budget teen drama.

So why bother spending billions in blockbuster productions if the most watched movie on your platform is going to be freaking Purple Hearts?
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.
 

Goalus

Member
So is he saying that putting mid-budget movies day 1 on a subscription service is unsustainable? That this will lead to more and more "Movies as a service" with microtransactions? I wonder where I've heard that before...
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
So is he saying that putting mid-budget movies day 1 on a subscription service is unsustainable? That this will lead to more and more "Movies as a service" with microtransactions? I wonder where I've heard that before...
Did we watch a different interview?
 

sol_bad

Member
There is certainly truth to it and it's the studios fault. In all honesty they should be treating their streaming releases the same way as they released them on TV.
Theatrical release > physical media release > digital release/premium VOD > digital rental >>>>>>>>>>>> streaming release
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
There is certainly truth to it and it's the studios fault. In all honesty they should be treating their streaming releases the same way as they released them on TV.
Theatrical release > physical media release > digital release/premium VOD > digital rental >>>>>>>>>>>> streaming release
Has everyone forgotten where streaming services started? As soon as your Grandma was using Napster to download some Perry Como hits, holding media hostage became a no-go.
 

sol_bad

Member
Has everyone forgotten where streaming services started? As soon as your Grandma was using Napster to download some Perry Como hits, holding media hostage became a no-go.

Piracy would have never had the same impact on physical sales as streaming has.
Streaming is easy, you sign up, pay your monthly fee, download the TV app and instant access to a huge library.
Piracy, you needed a PC with a decent internet speed, know what programs to use and know what websites to go to.
Then you need to know what sort of files to download and learn what files have good quality. Although, most pirates I know don't give a shit about quality, they literally are the "consoom", don't ask questions and just move straight on to the next bit of content.
 
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poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Piracy would have never had the same impact on physical sales as streaming has.
Streaming is easy, you sign up, pay your monthly fee, download the TV app and instant access to a huge library.
Piracy, you needed a PC with a decent internet speed, know what programs to use and know what websites to go to.
Then you need to know what sort of files to download and learn what files have good quality. Although, most pirates I know don't give a shit about quality, they literally are the "consoom", don't ask questions and just move straight on to the next bit of content.
At one point you just loaded up Napster and searched. Right now I could go to Google and find a website and get a Netflix like experience but with movies still in theaters. Streaming is just the paid, legal, convenient and consistent version of what piracy has to offer. You start making people wait 6 - 9 months before a movie hits streaming and they will pursue alternatives.
And with internet speeds now - I just checked and it took me a minute to download a 2h movie from Netflix.
 
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sol_bad

Member
At one point you just loaded up Napster and searched. Right now I could go to Google and find a website and get a Netflix like experience but with movies still in theaters. Streaming is just the paid, legal, convenient and consistent version of what piracy has to offer. You start making people wait 6 - 9 months before a movie hits streaming and they will pursue alternatives.
And with internet speeds now - I just checked and it took me a minute to download a 2h movie from Netflix.

It's great that you enjoy pirating, majority of the population doesn't. If it wasn't the case, the entire film industry would have collapsed decades ago.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
It's great that you enjoy pirating, majority of the population doesn't. If it wasn't the case, the entire film industry would have collapsed decades ago.
I don't pirate - I pay for hulu + disney, Amazon prime, netflix, plus full cable package and currently have apple tv and music through free trials and before that was paying for spotify, and I go to the movies regularly. But only a small part of the resson is because of any moral compunction, it's just more convenient to use streaming services, no worries and there is always new stuff coming. The bigger the delay between theater release and streaming the more people will look for alternatives. Used to be that movies would cone to theaters in the UK after they had hit VHS/DVD in the US. Can you imagine that shit flying now?
 

Crayon

Member
So is he saying that putting mid-budget movies day 1 on a subscription service is unsustainable? That this will lead to more and more "Movies as a service" with microtransactions? I wonder where I've heard that before...

notsureifserious.gif
 

sol_bad

Member
sol_bad sol_bad you're reminding me of Blockbuster and their insistence on fighting a tidal wave.

No, I know that streaming is important. I'm not saying not to release movies on streaming, I'm saying to delay the streaming release. Streaming has taught people to wait until a film they want to watch is on a streaming service and so they don't actively purchase any products physically or digitally anymore. They have been taught not to purchase things. If there was a 7-9 month delay in a streaming release, people might lean back into purchasing things. Yes, some people will lean towards piracy but there will be many people who used to buy DVDs/BDs that will resume doing so.

If people resume purchasing films it will give studios that 2nd level of revenue that they are currently missing.
 
No, I know that streaming is important. I'm not saying not to release movies on streaming, I'm saying to delay the streaming release. Streaming has taught people to wait until a film they want to watch is on a streaming service and so they don't actively purchase any products physically or digitally anymore. They have been taught not to purchase things. If there was a 7-9 month delay in a streaming release, people might lean back into purchasing things. Yes, some people will lean towards piracy but there will be many people who used to buy DVDs/BDs that will resume doing so.

If people resume purchasing films it will give studios that 2nd level of revenue that they are currently missing.
There are still some movies that sort of do this by being purchasable for 19.99 on streaming services immediately after their theater run is over. Ultimately though it all feels like a band-aid for an infection that's already too deep at this point. People will still wait because even the mere thought of a movie potentially coming to streaming makes them alright with that wait. The video game industry could be headed in the same streaming direction but they have a ton of larger hurdles to jump over before it's possible, such as the old U.S. cable internet infrastructure, certain ISPs having monopolies over those areas(thus causing that stagnation in growth), data caps still being prevalent, and making sure controls feel as close to 1:1 as possible.
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
The cinema business appears to be in trouble, especially with recent reports of Cineworld considering bankruptcy. Part of this could be blamed on Covid, but the sad truth is less people are going to the cinema. Why go to the cinema and pay all that money when the film will arrive on a streaming platform in a matter of weeks?

I'm not sure I understand the comment about mid budget films. Surly studios would make more of these films to fill up their streaming service and keep people subscribed. They're also less risky than big budget films. Look at Netflix. They're most popular films are mid to low budget releases. Such as........
lol, course not. It's "Purple Hearts". That 100 dollar budget teen drama.

So why bother spending billions in blockbuster productions if the most watched movie on your platform is going to be freaking Purple Hearts?

This. My wife has watched this film on Netflix four times since Saturday! It's a teen drama, but she's 40 and can't get a fucking enough of! I can guarantee that she'll watch it again tonight (help me). She's recommended to friends and family, who are also addicted to this film.

When a low budget movie like Purple Hearts is the most watched on your platform, why risk making huge budget films that cost hundreds of millions?
 

Lasha

Member
Millennial women still watch shit aimed at teens. My wife is always watching the latest high school drama on Netflix. In fact, I think a lot of these teen dramas aren't even made for teens, they're made for adults who want to relive their high school days.

You hit the nail on the head. People want something easy to consume without much thought. Its always been this way. Now studios and publishers have data to prove it. Literature has experienced the same trend with the young adult genre. Adults are the biggest consumers of YA. If they read at all, post literacy is a real phenomenon.
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
I think over abundance of content is most likely to blame - there is simply too much stuff being produced and released.

Another way to improve it would be like France is doing - after cinema run each movie has time period specified by law when it can be put on TV, including streaming services. This guarantees higher cinema revenues since you don’t have people going “I will buy it on streaming in 2 months”.
 
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sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
Matt Damon thinks he is smart like in good will hunting but he is really more of the rube he plays in Marvel films.

Streaming killed the music industry and now it is killing movies.
Perfectly fine analogy. Streaming music lead to albums being out of favor instead a reliance on continuing content. Times where a band got to spend months in a studio burning millions is over.
As a parallel movies are now either franchises with big budgets or super independent. Streaming will not kill movies it will change how they are made, same with the music industry.
 

sol_bad

Member
People should just support movies at the cinemas more frequently. Mid budget theatrical films are generally going to be better than mid budget streaming films. I don't know why that is but it is.
And there is still heaps to see in the coming months based on American release dates.

August 19 - Beast



August 26 - Breaking



August 26 - The Invitation



August 31 - Three Thousand Years of Longing



September 9 - Barbarian



September 16 - God's Country



September 16 - Pearl



September 16 - The Woman King



September 23 - Don't Worry Darling



September 30 - Bros



September 30 - Smile
https://youtu.be/BcDK7lkzzsU?t=5


October 14 - White Bird: A Wonder Story
https://youtu.be/MOi0b6pk3c8


October 21 - Ticket to Paradise
https://youtu.be/hkP4tVTdsz8?t=4


November 4 - Amsterdam
https://youtu.be/GLs2xxM0e78


November 18 - The Menu
https://youtu.be/C_uTkUGcHv4


A lot of these are low to mid budget and are the films that need support. The less support they get, the more dreck we get on streaming services.
 

Doom85

Member
People should just support movies at the cinemas more frequently. Mid budget theatrical films are generally going to be better than mid budget streaming films. I don't know why that is but it is.
And there is still heaps to see in the coming months based on American release dates.

August 19 - Beast



August 26 - Breaking



August 26 - The Invitation



August 31 - Three Thousand Years of Longing



September 9 - Barbarian



September 16 - God's Country



September 16 - Pearl



September 16 - The Woman King



September 23 - Don't Worry Darling



September 30 - Bros



September 30 - Smile
https://youtu.be/BcDK7lkzzsU?t=5


October 14 - White Bird: A Wonder Story
https://youtu.be/MOi0b6pk3c8


October 21 - Ticket to Paradise
https://youtu.be/hkP4tVTdsz8?t=4


November 4 - Amsterdam
https://youtu.be/GLs2xxM0e78


November 18 - The Menu
https://youtu.be/C_uTkUGcHv4


A lot of these are low to mid budget and are the films that need support. The less support they get, the more dreck we get on streaming services.


Beast was pretty good. Obviously Elba was solid, so was Sharlto Copley. The daughters were fine, a tad annoying at times but it could have been worse. The directing and cinematography though, good shit, I was pleasantly surprised by the number of long shots with no cuts in the film.

It’s nothing must see, but if you’re just looking for a fairly entertaining suspense film, I felt it was worth a watch.
 

Dr.Morris79

Gold Member
Isn't this my entire point? Movies need to be supported at cinemas or we'll get constant low quality drek through the streaming services.
I was going to the damn cinema! Wadda ya want from me?? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

But yes, it's crap all round. And quite funny in a way. Disney etc wanted that streaming goodness, then complain their films dont do well, cinemas shut, they make crapper films for their service, people leave said service as the films are crap..

It's their own doing.
 

Kimahri

Banned
Matt Damon thinks he is smart like in good will hunting but he is really more of the rube he plays in Marvel films.

Streaming killed the music industry and now it is killing movies.
Streaming didn't kill the music industry. The music industry was already in panic due to pirating when streaming arrived.
 
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