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Do you remember the Bush years? (9/11, Katrina, Valerie Plame, etc.)
- Thread starter Back-In-Black
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Epsilon-delta
Banned
Same here.
9/11 conspiracy theories have been a thing for like 14 years now? More maybe? Like people literally say the planes that flew into the towers were holograms.
GreatestHits
Member
And that's about as much as most people who endured it have to say. Thanks y'all
Bush was very professional. He wouldn't be saying anything that didn't help his cause on twitter, and if he did, it wouldn't be a common thing
At least they know what it is though. I don't want to live in a world where people above the age of 18 are completely ignorant on the event.
To Far Away Times
Member
9/11 happened when I was 15 so it had a pretty big effect on shaping me and my world views as I'm sure it did for many. It is probably the defining world wide event for Gen X and millennial's or whatever people my age are called these days.
Buddha Beam
Banned
The Bush years are why I will never, ever vote for a conservative for so long as I live (and since I'm a democrat, even after I die!*)
It terrifies me to see Trump coming in and not only promising to effectively do everything Bush and the Republicans did, but to do it even harder.
Hell, at least with Bush we could also at least take some small comfort in knowing there won't be a BRIC nation world re-alignment too. That more than anything is going to screw the world over in ways we never imagined.
*
It terrifies me to see Trump coming in and not only promising to effectively do everything Bush and the Republicans did, but to do it even harder.
Hell, at least with Bush we could also at least take some small comfort in knowing there won't be a BRIC nation world re-alignment too. That more than anything is going to screw the world over in ways we never imagined.
*
I kid because I love ❤️
Xyrmellon
Member
I know few on here agree with me politically, but outside of the Iraq war, I can counter most of your points. First of all, to you Dick Cheney and Karl Rove are "scandals", but to conservatives they're heroes. I could just as easily say Van Jones and David Axelrod. Obama's IRS targeted conservatives for audits based on their political beliefs. Obama vastly expanded drone strikes killing numerous civillians. A lack of leadership exacerbated the situations in Libya and Syria. Plus, for whatever reason Russia viewed Obama as weak and felt emboldened to act globally. I guess what Im getting at is to say Bush's 8 years were miserable and Obamas paradise is not accurate for everyone.
Back-In-Black
Banned
They are to George W. Bush as well. Bush essentially side lined Cheney for the remainder of his second term after the DOJ-NSA surveillance fight. He realized too late that he allowed Cheney too much free reign in his White House. He also supremely regretted appointing Donald Rumsfeld as Sec. of Defense.
And some of the Reagan years. *old* Anyone remember Ross Perot? I do!
The media never knew how to handle any of the Republican presidents in my lifetime and they still don't, and I'm not expecting any different this time.
He also campaigned on how as a born again Christian, he was going to bring back "honor and integrity" to the White House that had been sullied by Bill Clinton. There was a lot of "How do we explain this to our children?" from conservatives about old Bill..
After the 2000 election there was lots of finger waving at the "liberals" about how out of touch with America they were becuase they didn't get that it didn't matter that the economy was good, it was *character* that counted most and Al Gore showed poor character by rolling his eyes at GWB during one of the debates.
Now after this election, there is finger waging at how the "liberals" don't get that, not only does character *not* count, you can attack people based on their race/sex/sexual orientation/religion as long as you leave the working white class alone.
This is going to be like the Reagan years times the Bush years on crack.
dc3k
Member
No, everybody forgot all of that as soon as Obama was elected.
I was in 5th grade and remember my teacher getting pulled to the hallway for a really long chat. Then going home and seeing it played for nearly a week on news stations.
Old Gimlet Eyes
Member
I'll never forget Bush landing on the aircraft carrier with the mission accomplished sign. Mission accomplished my ass.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Bush years are my earliest American political memories. I was too small during Bush Sr and Clinton to be noticing international politics. I remember the Clinton name from then but not really what was going on.
It really is the best image of George during his presidency.
What was the context behind this again? Because I don't remember him accomplishing shit
Electric Eye
Banned
The war on terror.
Technically the sign itself refers to the completion of the mission/deployment of the USS Abraham Lincoln, as the ship returned home later that month, but Bush's speech was intended to refer to the mission of the Invasion of Iraq being "accomplished". What Bush didn't know at that point was the level of insurgency that would kick up after Saddam was ousted.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Remember them? I voted for them.
I've grown a lot since then and would vote Gore in a repeat election.
I've grown a lot since then and would vote Gore in a repeat election.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I was living in Caracas so for me those are Chavez years.
Forerunner
Member
ImpracticalPassword
Member
Wait, didn't he come out in some military get-up? I distinctly remember he did...
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I was 6 when Bush entered office and 14 when he left. 9/11 is kind of a weird thing because I wasn't quite old enough to grasp how big a deal it was but people younger than me probably can't remember it. I remember Katrina happening and being a serious deal, but I wasn't quite old enough to know how much Bush fucked up the response. I remember being vaguely aware of the 2004 election and that my dad didn't like Kerry (and that Kerry was related to Heinz ketchup? idk why that stuck with me) but I didn't know why other than that my dad was a Republican. I can't remember much of the pre-2004 stuff other than the Iraq War and a lot of general anti-Muslim hysteria, though I do remember hearing about when Sadaam died when I was in church.
The 2008 election was the first time I really seriously paid attention to politics, since Obama was incredibly interesting (and the first Democrat my dad ever voted for).
The 2008 election was the first time I really seriously paid attention to politics, since Obama was incredibly interesting (and the first Democrat my dad ever voted for).
Lackadaisicool
Neo Member
No Child Left Behind
They also targeted progressive groups when examining non-profits to make sure that non-profit status was not being abused (just as the law states they should). Conservatives weren't the only targets.
Psamtik. Death's Demise
Banned
I remember being asked why I "hate America" because I opposed the Iraq war in 2003. Mysteriously, the same people who made that accusation (Trump supporters, naturally) now act as if they opposed it right along with me - but I remember.
ImpracticalPassword
Member
He married into the Heinz family.
I dunno where my Republican father stands on the Iraq War now but he called me a "terrorist" when I threw a piece of bread at him for saying that he *hoped* that America would be attacked by al-Qaeda again if we elected a Democrat in 2004. (I know I shouldn't have thrown anything at anyone. It had been a long fucking lunch filled with hateful fucking blather from him and I lost it for a moment.)
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
I remember the Bush Years very well; I coming out of high school into college right as he began his second term. I think we all remember the major events but for me, the thing that really stands out about the Bush years was just how much America changed for the worse during that era.
Canada and America used to be a lot closer. I remember being driven down to Buffalo to see Bills games on a regular basis in the 90's. Passports were not required back then to cross the border, then 9/11 happened and America went nuts over foreigners. It didn't help that Republicans started spreading rumours about how the 9/11 terrorists snuck into the US via the Canadian border.
There was also a complete narrative change in politics. American politics in the 90's was very cynical. Both parties were considered to be too similar. Nobody trusted the government back then and everyone was assumed to have an ulterior motive. People actively questioned things back then - that was the knock against Generation X; that they were too cynical. But that cynicism also was a good thing in a way because people questioned the intermingling of corporate power and government power back then. The environmental movement came of age back then. The big sexy political movement in the 90's was the Anti-Globalization movement which had a coming out party in 1999 at the Seattle WTO protests. Unions, environmentalists, left wing activists came together to protest the WTO and free trade. Then 9/11 happened and the movement fractured. The generation that grew up with Watergate, Iran Contra, Savings and Loan changed their minds about not trusting the government and then put their faith into it entirely.
I remember Bill Clinton giving an interview a long time ago where he mentioned that shift in attitude. He said that during his administration, he felt that people were too distrustful of the government and public institutions and that it was partially the fault of past governments but also added that the pendulum swung too far to the other side and people began waving flags.
Canada and America used to be a lot closer. I remember being driven down to Buffalo to see Bills games on a regular basis in the 90's. Passports were not required back then to cross the border, then 9/11 happened and America went nuts over foreigners. It didn't help that Republicans started spreading rumours about how the 9/11 terrorists snuck into the US via the Canadian border.
There was also a complete narrative change in politics. American politics in the 90's was very cynical. Both parties were considered to be too similar. Nobody trusted the government back then and everyone was assumed to have an ulterior motive. People actively questioned things back then - that was the knock against Generation X; that they were too cynical. But that cynicism also was a good thing in a way because people questioned the intermingling of corporate power and government power back then. The environmental movement came of age back then. The big sexy political movement in the 90's was the Anti-Globalization movement which had a coming out party in 1999 at the Seattle WTO protests. Unions, environmentalists, left wing activists came together to protest the WTO and free trade. Then 9/11 happened and the movement fractured. The generation that grew up with Watergate, Iran Contra, Savings and Loan changed their minds about not trusting the government and then put their faith into it entirely.
I remember Bill Clinton giving an interview a long time ago where he mentioned that shift in attitude. He said that during his administration, he felt that people were too distrustful of the government and public institutions and that it was partially the fault of past governments but also added that the pendulum swung too far to the other side and people began waving flags.
airmangataosenai
Member
Cheney's Chief of Staff was convicted of leaking classified information as revenge against the administration's political opponents and then had his sentence commuted by Bush as a political favor for Cheney. No fake controversy or exaggeration you can cook up and blame Obama for will ever compare to this. That is to say nothing of tge actual suspension of habeus corpus in the aftermath of the war and the justice department signing off on torture, Bush appointing a complete incompetent to head FEMA which led to unfathomable human suffering.... Did you just forget this shit or are these people still "Heroes" to you?
And before I forget, you seem to of forgotten when Russia invaded Georgia as well in saying Crimea is a sign of Obama's weakness.
Slackbladder
Member
I remember all of it well, unfortunately. Why hasn't there been a major film based around the nasty shit the Police got up to during Katrina? "Oh, thugs driving around in pick ups with guns!" Yeah, they're the fucking Police. Example The Danzinger Bridge Shootings. I mean the whole thing was an utter disaster and so poorly managed it made the US look completely incompetent. Fuck up, after fuck up. And the media were just as to blame. Shameful part of US history that seems to have been brushed under the carpet.
nah. So many dems were in the tank for Iraq. It would have been exactly like this year where everyone is apparently extremely good at parroting the DNC party line about everything
Probably would have made support for iraq ++
e: what would have happened is that opposition people would have actually been fired from their jobs for calling out bloodthirsty warmongers
Any articles on this? I don't remember that at all, and that was less than 10 years ago.
The standout for me was Bush during the Bush-Kerry presidential debates, seemingly wearing an earpiece or something. His horrible response to Katrina is a close second.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I think in general Trump and his cabinit are closer to Clinton and Obama than the Bushes, and really aren't into the idea of full scale invasions for spreading democracy, protecting/enhancing america's economic interests, and keeping in balance a complex web of enemies of our enemies. I think they'll mostly continue the military strategy we've seen under obama, except a lot more of it, and with a lot less respect for civilians and human rights.
I'm imagining a lot of stories and debates about the US military bombing schools and things like that.
Imperfected
Member
Bush would have been a decent if by no means spectacular president on domestic issues if he just hadn't let his foreign policy fuckery completely bleed over into every other aspect of his presidency.
He could have been remembered as the president who steered America through one of its darkest times with non-partisan generosity and a commitment to preventing Americans from turning on one another (unlike Trump, he was never anti-Muslim, even at the height of hysteria); instead, his legacy is a pointless war and the dozens of terrible aftershocks it had on every other aspect of the country.
He could have been remembered as the president who steered America through one of its darkest times with non-partisan generosity and a commitment to preventing Americans from turning on one another (unlike Trump, he was never anti-Muslim, even at the height of hysteria); instead, his legacy is a pointless war and the dozens of terrible aftershocks it had on every other aspect of the country.
The bushisms over those years were comedy gold, I remember them fondly:
https://youtu.be/JhmdEq3JhoY
https://youtu.be/JhmdEq3JhoY
Lol did you keep the receipts. You must have felt like a vindicated Dixie Chick.
I came of age in the Bush years. I watched as the nation and media was slurped into a proverbial flush of the toilet. Angry conservatives emboldened, lots of racist and classist things said hourly on TV, radio, and the Internet.
Eight years of Democrat governance afterwards was magical in comparison - not without its problems, but sane, rational, and prosperous. We clawed our way back out of the Republican hole and were on our way back.
Now? Fuck. Right back into the pit. It's time for the economy to eat shit while Congress and the president make a bunch of dumb, childish decisions - as is the GOP way. It's going to hurt and it won't be fun.
Eight years of Democrat governance afterwards was magical in comparison - not without its problems, but sane, rational, and prosperous. We clawed our way back out of the Republican hole and were on our way back.
Now? Fuck. Right back into the pit. It's time for the economy to eat shit while Congress and the president make a bunch of dumb, childish decisions - as is the GOP way. It's going to hurt and it won't be fun.
the_batman
Banned
i try to forget the Bush years, why you gotta remind me of that depressing era.
oh well, they'll probably look like the good old days with what we've got coming up next, fuck me.
oh well, they'll probably look like the good old days with what we've got coming up next, fuck me.
Imperfected
Member
Try to imagine Trump handling 9/11 (domestically) with even an iota of the class Bush displayed.
Yeah, it's about to get rough.
broncobuster
Banned
I remember SNL making jokes about Al Gore's lockbox.
Yes.
It was hell.
But he was just a dumb bastard who thought the things people told him were good. G. W. B. was convinced he was a good guy. After dealing with a sociopath like Trump a horrible person who wanted to good feels quaint.
I've said in other threads, but the people hating 2016 are naive. 2017 is gonna be so much worse, and we just starting this shit.
The fact that the west has proven inert against Putin may be our Waterloo. The fact that he can bomb the shit out of civilians in Syria who decent countries in Europe absorb, but Russia does nothing for is really, really , fucking converning.
Geopolitics of short term empathy aren't the game Russia is playing as they create distrust and right-wing hell in Europe and America. At some point the value of being relevant in 50 years needs to be the focus.
People free of right-wing and or Putin-inspired governments are in danger like we haven't seen since perhaps the '70s.
It was hell.
But he was just a dumb bastard who thought the things people told him were good. G. W. B. was convinced he was a good guy. After dealing with a sociopath like Trump a horrible person who wanted to good feels quaint.
I've said in other threads, but the people hating 2016 are naive. 2017 is gonna be so much worse, and we just starting this shit.
The fact that the west has proven inert against Putin may be our Waterloo. The fact that he can bomb the shit out of civilians in Syria who decent countries in Europe absorb, but Russia does nothing for is really, really , fucking converning.
Geopolitics of short term empathy aren't the game Russia is playing as they create distrust and right-wing hell in Europe and America. At some point the value of being relevant in 50 years needs to be the focus.
People free of right-wing and or Putin-inspired governments are in danger like we haven't seen since perhaps the '70s.
Back-In-Black
Banned
On Cheney:
https://youtu.be/WUr0iN8Y6Zo?t=49m15s
Also:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/13/magazine/the-final-insult-in-the-bush-cheney-marriage.html
As for Rumsfeld I'm too tired to find the sources but it's mostly sources from officials and aides that worked for Bush. I don't think anyone besides maybe Cheney thought Rumsfeld did a good job. He was basically sacked by Pres. Bush. But, Bush is too polite to trash him in public, although his father has no such qualms recently stating that Rumsfeld was "arrogant" and served his son poorly.
I don't think it's naive, just because 2017 is likely to be worse that doesn't mean 2016 didn't completely suck. 2017 hasn't happened yet, can't hate what hasn't happened.
So fuck 2016. One more day of this garbage, then on to fuck 2017.
Oh yes he did. You remember that correctly. It was a perfect choice for all the TV stations televising the event. His team that devised the political communication strategy of that whole event really do get an A+ on that one. The whole "I'm one of you" aspect was very deliberate. No reason at all to come in with military gear but does it look good? Does it send a message intended to be seen by everybody (the American public especially)? It does.
I agree insofar as 2016 wasn't good by any general metric. But anybody who thinks the world stage isn't gonna be much worse in 2017 is either Amish, a Putin fan, or an anarchist. The likelihood of 2017 being better than 2016 is as likely as spontaneous cancer remission. I suppose we might get less celebrity deaths though. So there's that.
Just the pieces we already know will be in play are a horror show.
Gonna make writers, documentarians, and PMCs rich though.
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