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[Synbios459]

Now, IIRC, the Saturn was originally supposed to be a godly 2-D system (which is apparent by its godly 2-D games), but when the President of SEGA Japan saw the specs for the PlayStation he had them add some 3-D capabilities. Unfortunately, being an after-thought, it made it very difficult to develop for and not very developer-friendly.

So, even if it had come out later, do you think it would've been in SEGAs best interest to have made a new console from the ground up implementing better technology?

 

[jarrod]

Probably. They should've partnered with NEC/Videologic on a PVR based Saturn for 1996 release instead I think... that would've blown N64 away and been competitive with M2 performance wise. They probably could've gotten Namco to commit there and maybe even held on to Dragon Quest VII. Western devs would've loved it too.

A little off topic but I understand Sega actually turned down SGI in 1993 when they were approached with a console proposal... then SGI went to Nintendo. :/

 

[ourumov]

Well, the SS was very powerful indeed in 3D just that it was not trivial to push that power. The twin SH-2 + DSP could provide a nice performance when it refers to pushing quads (SS treats polys as distorted sprites). The problem was about syncronizing access to memory (of the dual SH-2).

With just a few changes the system would have performed much better. For instance just making the DSP a co-processor of the SH-2, souping it up to 30-35 Mhz and eliminting the Slave SH-2.

 

[jarrod]

Naw, I think Sega would've been better off starting over from scratch with a true 3D focused architecture. In the meantime they could've kept focusing on MD/Genesis, which they really abandoned too early anyway.

 

[ourumov]

Well, I went for a fast and cheap solution...Or not so fast...A lot of people claim the slave SH-2/DSP was added at the last moment.
Probably true about the DSP but not sure about the slave SH-2 since even the 32X had that architectural layout.

 

[Fatghost]

I wonder if it would have been cost effective for Sega to essentially make a home console version of the Model 2A/2B arcade board.

 

[Ranger X]

Maybe without completely scrap the first Saturn they could have modified it better. And actually wait after the launch of PS1 and release FINISHED games at their own launch.

This topic made me think again how much Sony had benefited at that time of a weak Sega and a weak Nintendo. Lucky them.

 

[jarrod]

I'd have killed for a Lockheed Martin designed Model 2 based Saturn... it wouldn't have been cheap though.

 

[PanopticBlue]

In the meantime they could've kept focusing on MD/Genesis, which they really abandoned too early anyway.

That's not true at all, Genesis launched in 1989, Saturn came out in '95. There was about 5 1/2 years between the systems which is plenty. Also, MD launched in October 88 in Japan. Further, a lot of good to great Genesis games came out late anyway:

1994:
Shining Force 2
Streets of Rage 3
Sonic 3
Sonic & Knuckles
Virtua Racing
Dynamite Headdy

1995:
Alien Soldier
Comix Zone

I can't be bothered to track down the dates of every game that came out in 94-95, but there's more than what I just listed there that came out late in the Genesis' life.

 

[BeOnEdge]

all they needed to add was good antialiasing capabilities. the trouble lyed in the fact that the psx was pushing out alomost arcade perfect ports while the saturn could not replicate model 2 fast enough. i played the original daytona a few nights ago and holy shit it looked like crap. i remember first playing it when i first got my saturn and thinking "fuck this shit....what were they thinking?" they should have kept working on 2d stuff until programmers caught up on the 3d end. some of the 3d stuff at the end of saturns life was great.

 

[ourumov]

Antialiasing or Texture Filtering ??

 

[jarrod]

MD/Genesis had a nice run, I wasn't saying that.... but Sega really gave up on the platform too early for as successful as it was. Look how Nintendo benefitted from continued SFC/SNES development and sales through the lasy half of the 1990s or how Sony's doing with PSone today. Sega could've kept Genesis going a lot longer...

 

[SantaC]

Naw, I think Sega would've been better off starting over from scratch with a true 3D focused architecture. In the meantime they could've kept focusing on MD/Genesis, which they really abandoned too early anyway.

Considering the MD/Genesis (october 1988) had a 2 year lead over snes/s famicom (November 1990) they had about the same lifetime.

 

[jarrod]

Antialiasing or Texture Filtering ??

Both. I'd say perspective correct texturing would've helped Saturn out the most though, and that goes for PS1 (and now NDS) also.

 

[ourumov]

MD/Genesis had a nice run, I wasn't saying that.... but Sega really gave up on the platform too early for as successful as it was. Look how Nintendo benefitted from continued SFC/SNES development and sales through the lasy half of the 1990s or how Sony's doing with PSone today. Sega could've kept Genesis going a lot longer...

Rank Game Title Publisher Platform Genre

Unit Sold
1 Pocket Monster (Red, Blue, Green) Nintendo GB RPG 1,663,861
2 Tekken 2 Namco PS FIG 1,079,585
3 Super Mario RPG Nintendo SFC RPG 995,898
4 Biohazard Capcom PS A.AVG 942,987
5 Derby Stallion 96 ASCII SFC SLG 903,200
6 Super Mario 64 Nintendo N64 ACT 890,749
7 Dragon Quest III Remake Enix SFC RPG 719,886
8 Arc the Lad II Sony PS SRPG 672,420
9 Tobal No. 1 Square PS FIG 657,816
10 Dargon Quest VI Enix SFC RPG 599,335
11 Mini 4WD Shining Scorpion ASCII SFC RAC 576,803
12 Rage Racer Namco PS RAC 571,107
13 Kirby Star Super DX Nintendo SFC ACT 563,806
14 Super Donkey Kong 2 Nintendo SFC ACT 547,498
15 Street Fighter Zero 2 Capcom PS FIG 538,582
16 Super Donkey Kong 3 Nintendo SFC ACT 514,419
17 Bahamut Lagoon Square SFC SRPG 474,680
18 Super Mario Kart 64 Nintendo N64 RAC 460,504
19 Fire Emblem Nintendo SFC SRPG 429,763
20 Popolocrois Story Sony PS RPG 406,454
21 NiGHTS Sega SS ACT 392,383
22 Persona Atlus PS RPG 391,556
23 World Stadium EX Namco PS SPT 388,152
24 Super Famista 5 Namco SFC SPT 382,731
25 Tokimeki Memorial: Forever with you Konami SS LSLG 374,936
26 Virtua Fighter 2 Sega SS FIG 373,926
27 Fighting Vipers Sega SS FIG 364,869
28 Sakura Taisen Sega SS SLG 359,485
29 Super Bomberman 4 Hudson SFC ACT 356,919
30 Fighters Megamix Sega SS FIG 353,535

It's incredible how SFC was still on shape @ 1996 in Japan...Nintendo shouldn't have released N64 and release a new system along with DC.

And the next year:

Rank Game Title Publisher Platform Genre

Unit Sold
1 Pocket Monster (Red, Blue, Green) Nintendo GB RPG 3,995,988
2 Final Fantasy VII Square PS RPG 3,277,290
3 Derby Stallion ASCII PS SLG 1,581,138
4 Final Fantasy Tactics Square PS SRPG 1,237,328
5 SaGa Frontier Square PS RPG 1,057,263
6 Everybody's Golf Sony PS SPT 1,023,168
7 Parappa the Rappa Sony PS MUS 761,621
8 I.Q. intelligent Cube Sony PS PZG 749,138
9 Tamagouchi Bandai GB BSLG 746,383
10 Super Mario Kart 64 Nintendo N64 RAC 731,385
11 Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeons Square PS RPG 648,901
12 Gran Turismo Sony PS RAC 648,650
13 Super Donkey Kong 3 Nintendo SFC ACT 582,505
14 Puyo Puyo Compile PS PZG 511,640
15 Crash Bandicoot Sony PS ACT 507,829
16 Ace Combat 2 Namco PS STG 506,272
17 Crash Bandicoot 2 Sony PS ACT 498,835
18 Front Mission Second Square PS SRPG 496,200
19 Monster Farm Tecmo PS BSLG 496,197
20 Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 97 Konami PS SPT 488,309
21 Super Robot Taisen F Banpresto SS SRPG 464,168
22 Tales of Destiny Namco PS RPG 450,099
23 Densha de Go! Taito PS SLG 439,948
24 Breath of Fire III Capcom PS RPG 425,497
25 Bushido Blade Square PS FIG 387,937
26 Neon Genesis Evangelion 2nd Impression Sega SS SLG 387,382
27 Star Fox 64 Nintendo N64 STG 373,479
28 Biohazard Director's Cut Capcom PS A.AVG 368,052
29 Super Mario 64 Nintendo N64 ACT 361,302
30 Senteikou 2 Sony PS SLG 339,731
31 Tobal 2 Square PS FIG 318,293
32 Let's Make a Pro Soccer Club 2 Sega SS SLG 309,176

 

[Fatghost]

The PSX got arcade perfect translations because those games used psx hardware in the arcade as the System 11 board. Even System 12 games didn't get perfect translations, and it was just a small upgrade on the System 11. System 22 games that were ported to PS1 weren't even close to perfect, although Namco did have a better record than Sega did when it came to ports.

 

[BeOnEdge]

and that was the problem. saturn wasnt close "enough" to model 2 until it was too late. compare the original VF ss to VF remix. sega KNEW they fucked up. they wouldnt have even bothered with VF remix if that werent the case. same with daytona championship circuit edition.

 

[jarrod]

Considering the MD/Genesis (october 1988) had a 2 year lead over snes/s famicom (November 1990) they had about the same lifetime.

Er, no...

FC/NES: late 1983-late 1994 (11 full years)
MD/Genesis: late 1988-early 1996 (7.5 years)
SFC/SNES: late 1990-late2000 (10 full years)
PS1: late 1994-current (9.5 years and still going)

...notable Sega support for Genesis stopped in 1995 really though, while SNES was still getting big games after N64 released (Fire Emblem 5-6, Kirby Super Star/Dreamland 3, DKC3, SFC Wars, etc).

 

[nitewulf]

redesigned to a single processor solution would have been better...should have kept the 2d performance and simplified the 3d structure structure, a robust processor, perhaps a math co-processor and a 3d graphics card.

 

[jarrod]

I like the idea of a higher spec SH2 CPU/PVR1 based GPU myself (for late 1995/1996 release). Sorta like Dreamcast actually.

 

[nitewulf]

yes, a pc like structure would have benefitted the saturn a lot. really i cant imagine why they turned down SGI...thats just mind boggling. i have heard of it long ago as well, and i just cant believe it.

 

[SantaC]

Er, no...

FC/NES: late 1983-late 1994 (11 full years)
MD/Genesis: late 1988-early 1996 (7.5 years)
SFC/SNES: late 1990-late2000 (10 full years)
PS1: late 1994-current (9.5 years and still going)

...notable Sega support for Genesis stopped in 1995 really though, while SNES was still getting big games after N64 released (Fire Emblem 5-6, Kirby Super Star/Dreamland 3, DKC3, SFC Wars, etc).

But it's hard to set a border for an active lifetime. It's not like there was alot of new snes games released between 1997 through 2000. Atleast not in the western market. In Japan I can see it though.

 

[neptunes]

it could have looked sleek as hell but it couldn't have saved the Saturn.

Sega was prone to making d00m3d hardware

probably some things were never meant to be

 

[SantaC]

something was defintiley wrong with saturn's hardware capabilties, because a 2D game like SotN stutters on very low framerates unlike the PS1 version. I don't know if it was a bad port but still. The saturn version had extra sotn content so it was annoying.

 

[goodcow]

something was defintiley wrong with saturn's hardware capabilties, because a 2D game like SotN stutters on very low framerates unlike the PS1 version. I don't know if it was a bad port but still. The saturn version had extra sotn content so it was annoying.

That was a bad port.

 

[MrSingh]

yes, a pc like structure would have benefitted the saturn a lot. really i cant imagine why they turned down SGI...thats just mind boggling. i have heard of it long ago as well, and i just cant believe it.

NIH syndrome.

 

[jarrod]

That was a bad port.

Yep, KCEN handled the port (they also ported Genso Suikoden and Vandal Hearts to Saturn, and were rumored to be working on MGS using the Saturn upgrade cart).

 

[GIR]

A little off topic but I understand Sega actually turned down SGI in 1993 when they were approached with a console proposal... then SGI went to Nintendo. :/

Actually it was the other way around, Nintendo approached SGI.

 

[NotMSRP]

Yep, KCEN handled the port (they also ported Genso Suikoden and Vandal Hearts to Saturn, and were rumored to be working on MGS using the Saturn upgrade cart).

Are those Saturn ports any good? I know Suikoden has extra content over the PS1 version.

 

[jarrod]

Are those Saturn ports any good? I know Suikoden has extra content over the PS1 version.

They're all suppossed to have extra content iirc. I'm fuzzy on the details but I think Genso Suikoden was an improvement over the PS1 version (faster loading & more animation) and Castlevania was marred a bit (ugly mesh transparencies & slowdown). No idea about Vandal-Hearts but given the 3D bgs I'd imagine the Saturn port to be slightly uglier....

 

[jarrod]

It's a shame the rumored Lockheed Martin/Real3D based upgrade cart never came out for Saturn too. I think the increased performance (rumored to be around Model 3 level) along with games like VF3, Super GT and Sonic Adventure (as well as enhanced ports of stuff like Tomb Raider 2 and MGS) could've really turned Saturn's fate around in the west.

 

[FortNinety]

I remember back in the days of the Genesis Virtua Racing, there were reports that Sega was planning a special modular cart that would only house the SVP (Sega Virtua Processor... the Sega version of the Super FX chip) and that games for it would plug into the mod cart as to keep the prices low since Virtua Racing retailed at $100 at launch. I recall EGM breaking the news first.

Then a bit later, I recall EGM hinting at a "Super Genesis" which was the Genny with souped up colors and sounds. I recall the editor at the time being VERY excited about it.

I've got to wonder if this Super Genesis was what 32X turned out to be. Ultimately 32X was a great idea that was horribly timed and executed.

Too bad because if the 32X was far better than what it was, it could have been used to give Sega some time to make the Saturn far stronger than it was. As much as I love my Saturn, it's still a travesty that it was barely up to Model 1 levels of performance. And having that arcade screenshot of Daytona in all the press material was just insult to injury.

 

[ourumov]

They're all suppossed to have extra content iirc. I'm fuzzy on the details but I think Genso Suikoden was an improvement over the PS1 version (faster loading & more animation) and Castlevania was marred a bit (ugly mesh transparencies & slowdown). No idea about Vandal-Hearts but given the 3D bgs I'd imagine the Saturn port to be slightly uglier....

Suikoden 1 SS is better than the PSX version as the conversion was handled by KCET itself. I believe the same happens with Vandal Hearts but I am not sure.
SONT is deffinitelly worse on SS due to a bad port by the worst Konami team ever, KCEN. SOTN used polygon projection on PSX and when ported to SS they didn't use SS sprite abilities for it.

 

[jarrod]

Suikoden 1 SS is better than the PSX version as the conversion was handled by KCET itself. I believe the same happens with Vandal Hearts but I am not sure.

Nope, Nagoya handled both games. Unfortunately their website went down last year (they'd previously been absorbed into KCEK, then KCET irrc) so there's no real way to prove it outside the game credits themselves. At least though, KCET didn't make them as they're missing from their website gamelistings. KCET did handle the Saturn ports of Tokemeki Memorial and the various shooter DX Packs inhouse though.

Also worth noting (but off topic) the 3 console version of Policenauts seem tohave been handled by 3 different teams. KCEJ on 3DO, KCET on PS1 and KCEO on Saturn.

 

[jarrod]

Too bad because if the 32X was far better than what it was, it could have been used to give Sega some time to make the Saturn far stronger than it was. As much as I love my Saturn, it's still a travesty that it was barely up to Model 1 levels of performance. And having that arcade screenshot of Daytona in all the press material was just insult to injury.

Actually, that might not have been a bad plan. Get Sega Japan to put more R&D behind 32X (2D Saturn games like Magic Knight Rayearth or Shining Wisdom could've been easily recoded for 32X), keep 3rd parties interested (Capcom & Konami specifically) and keep it going strong until a PVR based Saturn was ready in 1996.

 

[cvxfreak]

I think it would have been better for Sega if they had made the Saturn easier to develop for, but in the end, bad decisions killed the thing in the west.

 

[goodcow]

Yep, KCEN handled the port (they also ported Genso Suikoden and Vandal Hearts to Saturn, and were rumored to be working on MGS using the Saturn upgrade cart).

They planned on porting MGS with the upgrade cart? What happened to that?

 

[goodcow]

It's a shame the rumored Lockheed Martin/Real3D based upgrade cart never came out for Saturn too. I think the increased performance (rumored to be around Model 3 level) along with games like VF3, Super GT and Sonic Adventure (as well as enhanced ports of stuff like Tomb Raider 2 and MGS) could've really turned Saturn's fate around in the west.

By 1997 it was already too late, much like how Gamecube and XBox can't really play catchup at this point.

 

[cvxfreak]

I wonder if it has anything to do with Metal Gear Solid being rumored on Dreamcast... (http://www.gamespot.com/news/1999/11/04/news_2460874.html)

 

[goodcow]

I wonder if it has anything to do with Metal Gear Solid being rumored on Dreamcast... (http://www.gamespot.com/news/1999/11/04/news_2460874.html)

Why didn't MGS1 get ported? They made a PC port... it would've been trivial to port that to DC using WinCE.

In the same vein, I really wish they had ported House of the Dead 1. (PC, using WinCE) The only port of it (Saturn) looks like total shit. It would've been easy to do, and could've been released at a budget price. But noooooooooooooo...

 

[Fafalada]

Both. I'd say perspective correct texturing would've helped Saturn out the most though, and that goes for PS1 (and now NDS) also.

They would be great to have - but those features don't come for free - and question is whether sacrificing other aspects(in this case, mostly fillrate) would still balance out.
PS1 had adequate fillrate as it was - cutting it down by half or more would make that questionable. And Saturn was already a fair bit slower at pixelfill to begin with, the better features wouldn't be all that usefull if too slow...
And that's just for the filtering... perspective correction would require more radical changes to both graphic chips - both PS1 and Saturn rasterizers (for polygons/quads) are still operating entirely in 2d.

 

[jarrod]

They planned on porting MGS with the upgrade cart? What happened to that?

The upgrade cart (along with the Saturn versions VF3 and Sonic RPG) was canned.

 

[FortNinety]

The upgrade cart (along with the Saturn versions VF3 and Sonic RPG) was canned.

Sonic RPG? Is this what Sonic Adventure would end up being?

BTW, have you guys seen Shenmue on the Saturn? I was shocked by how great it was.

 

[jarrod]

Sonic RPG? Is this what Sonic Adventure would end up being?

BTW, have you guys seen Shenmue on the Saturn? I was shocked by how great it was.

Yes and yes.

 

[doncale]

Jarrod, I too would've killed for a Martin Marietta Model 2 based Saturn - it was supposedly in the works anyway, ala NEO GEO MVS,AES, but not as the Saturn.

Model 2 was completed around mid 1993 by GE/Martin Marietta before the first Model 2 game, Daytona USA, came out in late 1993 or early 1994. in 93-94 Model 2 was extremely expensive, but I bet that by fall 1996 it would've been possible to come out with a $300~$400 Model 2 based console. with games being cheap (normal $50) on CD or ~$100 on ROM cartridges. Model 2 home cartridges could probably have been made less than NEO GEO carts since 3D data typically takes up less space than 2D sprite/animation data.

btw, BeOnEdge, the PS1 and Saturn were about equal in reproducing arcade games based on System 11 and Titan ST-V , respectively. now, if one unfairly compares System 11 ports on PS1 to Saturn adaptions of Model 2 games, obviously PS1 was able to have closer arcade games. but as I said, that's totally unfair. Now, in PS1's favor, and this is a more fair comparison, PS1 was better at reproducing System 22 games like Ridge Racer, than Saturn was at reproducing Model 2 games. whereas System 22 conversions to PS1 looked maybe half as good as the arcade (Ridge Racer, Time Crisis) the Model 2 conversions to Saturn looked 10% (1st daytona) to 40% (VF2) as good as the arcade. then to balence things out, Saturn was far superior to PS1, in most cases, when it came to reproducing 2D sprite arcade games.

It's a shame the rumored Lockheed Martin/Real3D based upgrade cart never came out for Saturn too. I think the increased performance (rumored to be around Model 3 level) along with games like VF3, Super GT and Sonic Adventure (as well as enhanced ports of stuff like Tomb Raider 2 and MGS) could've really turned Saturn's fate around in the west.

the Lockheed Martin Real3D upgrade cart was said to be based on the Real3D-100 chip-set. The Real3D-100 included three seperate main graphics processors (at least in the PC videocard ver). a geometry processor, a graphics processor and a texture processor. the Model 3 board used 2 Real3D/Pro-1000 chips. even 1 Real3D/Pro-1000 was more powerful than the 3-chip Real3D-100 chipset. so a Saturn upgrade cart based on Real3D-100 would not have matched Model 3, but would have been more powerful than Model 2, probably in every area, performance and image quality, especially gouraud shading.

However, since the Lockheed Martin Real3D chip for personal computers turned out to be a single chip design called the i740, co-designed with Intel, only a 3D accelerator like Voodoo1/2 or Riva128, and therefore not as powerful or as good as the midrange Real3D-100, it is likely that any Real3D chip for Sega's home use would probably have been another single chip design. I can't really speculate on where that would leave it power-wise. maybe somewhere in-between the new (at the time) i740 and the older-but-more-powerful Real3D-100.

the rumored Real3D based home system was called Saturn2 by Next Generation magazine (Nov 1995).. this Saturn2 could have been either an upgrade for the Saturn, or a standalone console. (3DO's Mark II accelerator, Bulldog, aka 3DO M2, was originally going to be an upgrade for 3DO but turned into a standalone console in Matsushita's hands).

 

[WarPig]

D'you think they could have fit something akin to the Model 2 hardware into a console-sized box? I've seen those arcade units, and the bastards are huge -- unless that's mostly game ROM or empty space, that would wind up being a stupid huge console.

DFS.

 

[doncale]

btw, getting back to the topic here: as some of you know, the Saturn originated from the Giga Drive project. as far back as summer & fall of 1990, before Sonic 1 came out on Genesis, Giga Drive reports and rumors were going around. you can find EGM first talking about Giga Drive in EGM Number 15, Oct 1990, obviously written in August 1990.
Giga Drive was going to be a whole new 32-Bit Sega system for home use. but even then, many people were calling it a 32 bit Genesis, and even a 32 bit upgrade *for* Genesis. sounds very similar to the " is Saturn2 a standalone console or upgrade to Saturn?" thing.
Also, the confusion in 1990-1991 over Giga Drive being a whole new Sega console, or a 32 bit Genesis upgrade, was actually right!, because Saturn originates in Giga Drive, and the 32X does somewhat as well, because at some point, 32X and Saturn split off into two different projects, but both came from a similar base. Jupiter/Saturn and the start of it all was Giga Drive.

here's what EGM said about Giga Drive in 1990-early 91


EGM Number 15, October 1990, page 24 (Gaming Gossip):

...Genesis Giga-Drive in Japan

...First we get the Mega Drive, then the Game Gear, and now the Giga Drive? The latest rumors from Japan tell of an even more advanced Sega system with scaling functions as well as the ability to manipulate a larger number of more colorful characters! Could it be true? From the one game company tgat seems to be taking an aggressive stab at just about anything, a Giga-Drive could be a possibility, but I have to see it with my own eyes first. Sure sounds rippin' though....

EGM (Number 16, November 1990) Letters to the Editor, page 14:

SEGA 32 BIT SYSTEM!

Recently I've heard that there are rumors concerning a 32 bit converter for the Genesis! Please confirm this rumor, because if this is true, then watch out NES and NEC here comes Genesis!

Tim Chung
Calgary, Alta

You've got the most awesome mag out there! How about an in depth on Strider? And what about the 32 bit Genesis?

(ed. There have been many rumors about a 32 bit system for Genesis, Code name Giga Drive (Giga being 1000 times bigger than Mega, as in the Japanese Mega Drive), is still a long ways from production. It's not just a dream though, as the 'System 32' arcade version is up and running. And, we know that what fits on an arcade mother board can eventually be shrunk down to fit inside a Giga Drive case! For the first look at the forerunner to the home Giga Drive, feast your eyes on this!)

[ b&w picture of System 32 board shown]


EGM Number 19, Feb 1991, page 10 Letters to the Editor:

GIGA DRIVE?...

I called Sega and asked them about tge Giga Drive. They said there is no such thing. And they said that you made it up. And there is no ' System 32' "up and running". They also said that if you look real close at the picture in issue number 16 of the so called Giga Drive, you'd see that it is a drawing. So, I would like to know what you have to say about this?

Jimmy Burleson
Phil Campbell, AL

(ed. Will Jimmy, these are the kind of problems we run into when we either, know more than the company does, know more than the company wants us to know, or know more than the company wants you to know.
With regards to your questions the 'System 32', a code name for Sega's new 32 bit arcade machine, is indeed up and running. In Japan, that is. Last September, at JAMMA, the Japanese arcade show, one game - Rad Mobile

Sega's new 32 bit arcade
machine - Rab Mobile!
was quite playable. The photo we ran in issue 16 was not an illustration. Rather it was an actual B and W photo of the motherboard of that System 32. And, as MegaDrive/Genesis was born from their 16 bit arcade system, it is not difficult to imagine a Giga Drive emerging from this new System 32. But it is probable that 1991 will be the year of the CD-ROM wars. That would make 1992 the earliest the next-generation of Sega machines would appear, That is, unless NEC makes the 32 bit jump first!?...)

 

[djtiesto]

I remember reading about the Giga Drive in Quartermann's column... but most of that stuff was hogwash, anyways. I always thought it would refer to the Sega CD (especially with the scaling/rotation functions)...

32x wasn't necessary at all for SEGA, they should've just continued with the Genesis (maybe releasing a US version of Wonderboy 4 and Blue Almanac) up until the Saturn was ready to roll out. They should've definitely delayed the Saturn by a few months, maybe adding a bit more 3D functionality and making the system easier to program for. And they should've had better advertisements for it.. that "theater of the eye" stuff was too odd even for me But, the last straw for SEGA was killing the Saturn in the US so rapidly, and denying us from some fantastic import games (Tengai Makyo 4, Langrisser 3-5, Radiant Silvergun, DoDonPachi, etc)

It's really interesting to note that Lockheed Martin worked on chipsets for SEGA... this comes as a pretty big surprise, as they're my employer's biggest competitor

 

[FortNinety]

btw, getting back to the topic here: as some of you know, the Saturn originated from the Giga Drive project. as far back as summer & fall of 1990, before Sonic 1 came out on Genesis, Giga Drive reports and rumors were going around. you can find EGM first talking about Giga Drive in EGM Number 15, Oct 1990, obviously written in August 1990.
Giga Drive was going to be a whole new 32-Bit Sega system for home use. but even then, many people were calling it a 32 bit Genesis, and even a 32 bit upgrade *for* Genesis. sounds very similar to the " is Saturn2 a standalone console or upgrade to Saturn?" thing.
Also, the confusion in 1990-1991 over Giga Drive being a whole new Sega console, or a 32 bit Genesis upgrade, was actually right!, because Saturn originates in Giga Drive, and the 32X does somewhat as well, because at some point, 32X and Saturn split off into two different projects, but both came from a similar base. Jupiter/Saturn and the start of it all was Giga Drive.

Wow, this sure brings back memories!

Hey, remember when all the Sega systems were code-named after planets? I'm still trying to remember which was which:

Venus: Master System/Game Gear

Earth: Genesis (?)

Moon: Nomad (?)

Mars: 32X

Jupiter: cart based 32 bit system a.k.a. Giga Drive

Saturn: the CD based 32 but system what we know, also previously referred to as Giga Drive (hey, remember when the Saturn was going to be a cart/CD combo system?)

Neptune: the all in one Genesis/32X a.k.a. the Super Genesis that EGM mentioned

Uranus; ???

Pluto: ???

I'm still trying to figure out where (or if) the Sega CD falls into place.

And one more thing, anybody remember the Tera Drive? Wasn't it referenced in SEGAGAGA?

 

[doncale]

Hey, remember when all the Sega systems were code-named after planets? I'm still trying to remember which was which:

Venus: Master System/Game Gear

Earth: Genesis (?)

Moon: Nomad (?)

Mars: 32X

Jupiter: cart based 32 bit system a.k.a. Giga Drive

Saturn: the CD based 32 but system what we know, also previously referred to as Giga Drive (hey, remember when the Saturn was going to be a cart/CD combo system?)

Neptune: the all in one Genesis/32X a.k.a. the Super Genesis that EGM mentioned



Uranus; ???

Pluto: ???

I'm still trying to figure out where (or if) the Sega CD falls into place.

And one more thing, anybody remember the Tera Drive? Wasn't it referenced in SEGAGAGA?

Venus - Sega Nomad (portable Genesis)

Earth - no idea if it was official. all i've seen is what you said, Genesis was codenamed Earth. but I dont actually believe that. edit: according to the SegaBase article on Genesis/MD, the MegaDrive was codenamed MK-1601
http://www.goodcowfilms.com/farm/games/segabase_archives/SegaBase - Genesis & MegaDrive.htm

Moon - nothing. Nomad was Venus

the GameGear was codenamed MicroDrive according to EGM.

no idea what the Master System was named, other than its Japanese variant, the Mark III.


TeraDrive - consumer name for the IBM PC + MegaDrive combo. the IBM PC side of TeraDrive was either an Intel 286 or the CPU that came before the 286.


Mars - 32X, yes.

Jupiter - cart based Saturn, yes. the Jupiter, Saturn and probably Mars/32X all have roots in the GigaDrive. the GigaDrive was circa 1990-1992, based on the System 32 board. the Mars/32X, Jupiter and Saturn were all heavily upgraded/changed from GigaDrive, but still probably have some GigaDrive DNA (the Video Display Processors probably) edit: I mean the way Sega's VDP technology works, not that Saturn/Jupiter and 32X have the exact same VDPs as the System 32 board and GigaDrive.

Saturn - right on, what you said

Neptune - Genesis combined with 32X, yes

Uranus - the Sega Butt System. j/k

Pluto and Mercury - both alledgedly were '64-Bit' systems. both based on Lockheed Martin Real3D graphics technology and probably PowerPC CPUs. one was an upgrade for Saturn. I forget which name was for the upgrade, either Mercury or Pluto. the upgrade was probably where the rumored '64X' or 'Eclipse' came from. And probably, the infamous VF3 3D upgrade cart is the same thing. the Real3D-based Saturn upgrade was probably in the same class as 3DO M2 or slightly above it. about 3 to 4 times more powerful than N64. Also more powerful than Sega's Model 2 board, but alot less powerful than the Model 3.

The other Real3D based Sega machine, either Pluto or Mercury, would be a totally seperate and more powerful console (more powerful than Saturn with upgrade addon) of Dreamcast class, more or less. Mercury and Pluto, one and upgrade and one a new console, both being LM Real3D based, was according to EGM and maybe some other magazines. circa 1996. this pre-dates the revelation of non-Real3D based machines, the 3Dfx BlackBelt and PowerVR Dural, of 1997.

Next Generation magazine had reported similar things to what EGM had. but only one would be released. either a Real3D based upgrade for Saturn, or a totally standalone Real3D based console. Next Generation called both machines 'Saturn2'. this was in 1995. So this was somewhat unlike what EGM a year or so later. EGM said the LM Real3D based Saturn upgrade AND LM Real3D based standalone console would *both* come out, and both had different names. whereas Next Generation reported them under the same name, Saturn2, and said one or the other would be released.

edit: another angle on the Saturn upgrade, '64X', and 'Eclipse....in 1995/1996 Sega was reported (pretty much confirmed) to have a deal with Matsushita to use the 3DO M2 as an upgrade for Saturn and/or a standalone console that Sega would make games for. but Sega decided the M2 was not impressive enough and walked away. the M2 was almost, but not quite, as powerful as the *lesser* of the two LM Real3D based '64-Bit' systems, the Saturn upgrade one (either Mercury or Pulto, aka Saturn2).