• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Do you think the market exists for a new company to enter with a low cost console?

Q

qwertz12345

Banned
I know that all these Chinese manufacturers are coming out with their own handhelds and consoles... Plus there has been a glut of micro consoles (by Sega, Nintendo etc) that have been released in recent years. And then there are low cost computers and consoles such as the Raspberry Pi 400 and Evercade.

Basically... There's all these "indie companies" that are already releasing "indie hardware" for less that $100. With that in mind, couldn't a new company enter the console space with their own low cost console?

The new contender could make a low cost console that uses low cost "off the shelf components" that are either ARM based (ie Raspberry Pi 4) or X86 based (ie Radxa Pi X). They could then pair the consoles with a custom Linux OS distro.

In terms of retail cost, the total hardware package should definitely be less than $100.

But what about the software?

Well... the new company could opt to make the console "indie centric" by developing games that are made by teams of 1 or 2 people. The new company could even hire developers from countries like China (where the salary for an average developer is around $12k).

The new company could hire 1 person to work on their own unique game for a year. And then hire a few more developers...

If the new company hires 6 people, then that company would essentially have 6 new games after 12 months. And the total software production cost would only be about $72k.

Granted... a few of those games could be average... But then again, the total cost per average game would only be about $12k. So the risk factor isn't even that great.

The new company could also have their own game store portal - like a variation of Itch.io - and this would certainly help in making it more appealing to indie game creators (which would help with software selection in the long-run).

So what do you think, Gaf... With the risk factor being quite low, do you think the market exists for a new company to enter with a low cost console?
 
A

ANDS

Banned
Nope. If it's the to just play non-taxing games, what's the hook to get consumers interested? New games specifically designed to be played on this new device that isn't your phone (which is right now the big competition for eyeballs)?

It sucks that there's no real competition in this space but a niche device isn't going to really change that.
 
T

Three

Member
qwertz12345 said:
I know that all these Chinese manufacturers are coming out with their own handhelds and consoles... Plus there has been a glut of micro consoles (by Sega, Nintendo etc) that have been released in recent years. And then there are low cost computers and consoles such as the Raspberry Pi 400 and Evercade.

Basically... There's all these "indie companies" that are already releasing "indie hardware" for less that $100. With that in mind, couldn't a new company enter the console space with their own low cost console?

The new contender could make a low cost console that uses low cost "off the shelf components" that are either ARM based (ie Raspberry Pi 4) or X86 based (ie Radxa Pi X). They could then pair the consoles with a custom Linux OS distro.

In terms of retail cost, the total hardware package should definitely be less than $100.

But what about the software?

Well... the new company could opt to make the console "indie centric" by developing games that are made by teams of 1 or 2 people. The new company could even hire developers from countries like China (where the salary for an average developer is around $12k).

The new company could hire 1 person to work on their own unique game for a year. And then hire a few more developers...

If the new company hires 6 people, then that company would essentially have 6 new games after 12 months. And the total software production cost would only be about $72k.

Granted... a few of those games could be average... But then again, the total cost per average game would only be about $12k. So the risk factor isn't even that great.

The new company could also have their own game store portal - like a variation of Itch.io - and this would certainly help in making it more appealing to indie game creators (which would help with software selection in the long-run).

So what do you think, Gaf... With the risk factor being quite low, do you think the market exists for a new company to enter with a low cost console?
Click to expand...
Not really but I suspect that Apple will sell us cheap mobile SoC consoles soon and MS will too with a crappy stick.
 
Topher

Topher

Identifies as young
Not with all the steaming heading our way....

meerkat peeing GIF
dog peeing GIF
peeing ralph wiggum GIF
 
HerjansEagleFeeder

HerjansEagleFeeder

Member
Yes, I do believe there is. But it's all about the exclusive software needed to get people on board. I believe you could even find success with a strictly 2D console. Put Switch like components in there, sell it for 150-200. But someone with a strong software output and IP ownership needs to do it, like Sega, Capcom or SNK. You would have games like the new Shredder's Revenge release on it alongside the first party titles.
 
Trogdor1123

Trogdor1123

Gold Member
Probably but it would be niche at best. I guess it depends on scope. Phones kind of already fill that void though so it would be tough. I kind of wish someone just made a dock for phones to plug into a tv and controller
 
Q

qwertz12345

Banned
HerjansEagleFeeder said:
Yes, I do believe there is. But it's all about the exclusive software needed to get people on board. I believe you could even find success with a strictly 2D console. Put Switch like components in there, sell it for 150-200. But someone with a strong software output and IP ownership needs to do it, like Sega, Capcom or SNK. You would have games like the new Shredder's Revenge release on it alongside the first party titles.
Click to expand...
It's interesting that you say that...

I was talking about a console that costs under $100, and with the Pi 400 costing about the same, it definitely seems achievable for a similarly powerful console to cost $100 (if not lower).

$100 also makes the console an impulse purchase.

$200... And the consumer would probably need to think about it.

I'm just thinking about indie game creators like Vlambeer - where the bulk of the programming was done by 1 person (I think), and where a lot of their games had development times of 6 months (or thereabouts).

Hire 1 relatively experienced developer... Give them 12 months to make a game... I'm sure that something "great" will eventually materialize.

Do that with 6 developers... And you're basically going toe to toe with companies like Devolver Digital.
 
thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Member
I don't know if indie games alone have selling power for a console, plus we've kind of seen this attempted before with the Ouya. The console you're speaking of would also need to have a unique business angle, just being a box for indies isn't enough since other systems like the Switch, PS and Xbox can do that and also offer bigger AAA games. Even a cheap entry-level PC could serve the same purpose as this theoretical box but offer more in the form of versatility and access to storefronts like Steam and GOG.

But, I think a system as you describe, that focused on appealing to a retro gaming aesthetic, COULD possibly work. It'd probably need to be something coming from a company like Sega, SNK, or Konami (they own the PC-Engine stuff now), and play up on the gaming culture of retro systems like SNES, MegaDrive, Saturn, PS1 etc., but with new games.

Decently powerful enough to play indie games that harken back to upper-tier games of those eras, with physical prints available (either microSD-based "cartridges" or CDs) that feel like they'd belong in the packaging style of Super Famicom or Saturn Japanese retail games (including the stuff you'd usually get with those), etc. Any 1P games made for such a system, ideally you'd want them to come off like modern versions of bigger-budget 16-bit/32-bit era 2D and 3D games like FFVI, Yoshi's Island, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Metal Slug, Resident Evil etc. and ALSO make them available for the "real" systems (your PS5s, Xbox Series, Switches etc.) and PC storefronts like Steam, GOG, & EGS.

However for people who'd want a system that offered the full physicality and aesthetic of console gaming from those golden eras, they could pick up this hypothetical console for $100 or so and buy those games physically, and play them on it. That system would exist as an option, appealing to a specific niche, but I don't think it alone would be sustainable without games made for it also being available for the bigger systems.

Personally, I'd love a system like that if it could really nail that feeling down. A whole packaged ecosystem evoking classics like SNES/SFC, MegaDrive, Saturn, PS1, N64 etc. Physical copies of games that'd feel right at home on those types of systems, but supporting modern QoL features, packaged like Japanese retail copies of those games. Even have a monthly newsletter or magazine collectible you can subscribe to that features compiled info from an official website and exclusive articles, fashioned after gaming mags from the '90s like GameFan, EGM or Next Gen. I'd buy those games and such a system in a heartbeat, as long as those games were also available on systems like PlayStation, Xbox, Switch and/or PC (with cross-platform save progression support obviously).

Some failed would-be "retro-orientated" consoles like the Chameleon tried to do this, but weren't thought through fully and died. And I already mentioned the Ouya, but again, it wasn't fully thought through. I think there's definitely a market for this type of system but it'd have to understand it's serving a specific niche and would need to act as an option for people into that niche, not locking the content down unto itself or positioning itself to compete against the Big 3 or PC.

Actually, I think this is something Sony or Nintendo would be perfect for. Take Sony for example; let's say PS+ allows them to expand out to do smaller reboots or sequels for games like Parappa, Tomba!, Jumping Flash etc. that they make available for PS5, either buy them digitally or maybe some of them get released into PS+ Extra or Premium (like what they're doing with Stray). Another option could be, for some of those smaller type of games, they could scale versions down for a $100/$150 "PlayStation Retro" console that's not just a (this time GOOD) emulation system for PS1 games, but also can play digital and physical copies of a new Tomba! or Parappa game with PS1-style packaging (of course also meaning the system would be able to play disc PS1 games), etc. That's just a quick example, but hopefully it makes sense.
 
Q

qwertz12345

Banned
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
I don't know if indie games alone have selling power for a console, plus we've kind of seen this attempted before with the Ouya. The console you're speaking of would also need to have a unique business angle, just being a box for indies isn't enough since other systems like the Switch, PS and Xbox can do that and also offer bigger AAA games. Even a cheap entry-level PC could serve the same purpose as this theoretical box but offer more in the form of versatility and access to storefronts like Steam and GOG.

But, I think a system as you describe, that focused on appealing to a retro gaming aesthetic, COULD possibly work. It'd probably need to be something coming from a company like Sega, SNK, or Konami (they own the PC-Engine stuff now), and play up on the gaming culture of retro systems like SNES, MegaDrive, Saturn, PS1 etc., but with new games.

Decently powerful enough to play indie games that harken back to upper-tier games of those eras, with physical prints available (either microSD-based "cartridges" or CDs) that feel like they'd belong in the packaging style of Super Famicom or Saturn Japanese retail games (including the stuff you'd usually get with those), etc. Any 1P games made for such a system, ideally you'd want them to come off like modern versions of bigger-budget 16-bit/32-bit era 2D and 3D games like FFVI, Yoshi's Island, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Metal Slug, Resident Evil etc. and ALSO make them available for the "real" systems (your PS5s, Xbox Series, Switches etc.) and PC storefronts like Steam, GOG, & EGS.

However for people who'd want a system that offered the full physicality and aesthetic of console gaming from those golden eras, they could pick up this hypothetical console for $100 or so and buy those games physically, and play them on it. That system would exist as an option, appealing to a specific niche, but I don't think it alone would be sustainable without games made for it also being available for the bigger systems.

Personally, I'd love a system like that if it could really nail that feeling down. A whole packaged ecosystem evoking classics like SNES/SFC, MegaDrive, Saturn, PS1, N64 etc. Physical copies of games that'd feel right at home on those types of systems, but supporting modern QoL features, packaged like Japanese retail copies of those games. Even have a monthly newsletter or magazine collectible you can subscribe to that features compiled info from an official website and exclusive articles, fashioned after gaming mags from the '90s like GameFan, EGM or Next Gen. I'd buy those games and such a system in a heartbeat, as long as those games were also available on systems like PlayStation, Xbox, Switch and/or PC (with cross-platform save progression support obviously).

Some failed would-be "retro-orientated" consoles like the Chameleon tried to do this, but weren't thought through fully and died. And I already mentioned the Ouya, but again, it wasn't fully thought through. I think there's definitely a market for this type of system but it'd have to understand it's serving a specific niche and would need to act as an option for people into that niche, not locking the content down unto itself or positioning itself to compete against the Big 3 or PC.

Actually, I think this is something Sony or Nintendo would be perfect for. Take Sony for example; let's say PS+ allows them to expand out to do smaller reboots or sequels for games like Parappa, Tomba!, Jumping Flash etc. that they make available for PS5, either buy them digitally or maybe some of them get released into PS+ Extra or Premium (like what they're doing with Stray). Another option could be, for some of those smaller type of games, they could scale versions down for a $100/$150 "PlayStation Retro" console that's not just a (this time GOOD) emulation system for PS1 games, but also can play digital and physical copies of a new Tomba! or Parappa game with PS1-style packaging (of course also meaning the system would be able to play disc PS1 games), etc. That's just a quick example, but hopefully it makes sense.
Click to expand...
I love this post... Going to read it again later when I have more time.
 
J

jaysius

Banned
Zeroing said:
Nobody remembers the OUYA ?
Click to expand...
Ouya would have been fine if they worked on the hardware more and told retarded fans that voted wanting BF and Skyrim on the console that it just WASN’T that type of console.

If they had of went balls deep in Indie and were honest about not having even single A games they would have been better off.

Backlash and sloppy programming is what killed this, but the backlash hurt it even more due to them allowing morons to believe you’d get COD and BF and Skyrim on an Ouya.

There probably is room for a cheaper console right now, but if small-mid sized players like Tommy Telrico(he even has industry connections) can’t even make it happen then there’s just no way to do it.
 
Oof85

Oof85

Banned
No.

The main obstacle to such an entrant is the content line.

If someone does put out a low price hardware, will the publishers support it over Switch/Ps5/Xbox/Pc?

People are rightfully gunshy about new nonbig three hardware proposals.

Many came and went over the years, and the built in audiences for such low requirement games are largely already being fed by the three.

So unless this potential newcomer has their own inhouse publishing arm and they can ensure a steady stream of releases to prove their commitment to succeed, it's doa.
 
V

Vandole

Member
Launching a new system right at the start of a recession with inflation higher than it's been in 40 years? Just the cost of marketing it alone to get it out to a wide enough audience would make it pretty much a disaster from the go.
 
Oof85

Oof85

Banned
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
I don't know if indie games alone have selling power for a console, plus we've kind of seen this attempted before with the Ouya. The console you're speaking of would also need to have a unique business angle, just being a box for indies isn't enough since other systems like the Switch, PS and Xbox can do that and also offer bigger AAA games. Even a cheap entry-level PC could serve the same purpose as this theoretical box but offer more in the form of versatility and access to storefronts like Steam and GOG.

But, I think a system as you describe, that focused on appealing to a retro gaming aesthetic, COULD possibly work. It'd probably need to be something coming from a company like Sega, SNK, or Konami (they own the PC-Engine stuff now), and play up on the gaming culture of retro systems like SNES, MegaDrive, Saturn, PS1 etc., but with new games.

Decently powerful enough to play indie games that harken back to upper-tier games of those eras, with physical prints available (either microSD-based "cartridges" or CDs) that feel like they'd belong in the packaging style of Super Famicom or Saturn Japanese retail games (including the stuff you'd usually get with those), etc. Any 1P games made for such a system, ideally you'd want them to come off like modern versions of bigger-budget 16-bit/32-bit era 2D and 3D games like FFVI, Yoshi's Island, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Metal Slug, Resident Evil etc. and ALSO make them available for the "real" systems (your PS5s, Xbox Series, Switches etc.) and PC storefronts like Steam, GOG, & EGS.

However for people who'd want a system that offered the full physicality and aesthetic of console gaming from those golden eras, they could pick up this hypothetical console for $100 or so and buy those games physically, and play them on it. That system would exist as an option, appealing to a specific niche, but I don't think it alone would be sustainable without games made for it also being available for the bigger systems.

Personally, I'd love a system like that if it could really nail that feeling down. A whole packaged ecosystem evoking classics like SNES/SFC, MegaDrive, Saturn, PS1, N64 etc. Physical copies of games that'd feel right at home on those types of systems, but supporting modern QoL features, packaged like Japanese retail copies of those games. Even have a monthly newsletter or magazine collectible you can subscribe to that features compiled info from an official website and exclusive articles, fashioned after gaming mags from the '90s like GameFan, EGM or Next Gen. I'd buy those games and such a system in a heartbeat, as long as those games were also available on systems like PlayStation, Xbox, Switch and/or PC (with cross-platform save progression support obviously).

Some failed would-be "retro-orientated" consoles like the Chameleon tried to do this, but weren't thought through fully and died. And I already mentioned the Ouya, but again, it wasn't fully thought through. I think there's definitely a market for this type of system but it'd have to understand it's serving a specific niche and would need to act as an option for people into that niche, not locking the content down unto itself or positioning itself to compete against the Big 3 or PC.

Actually, I think this is something Sony or Nintendo would be perfect for. Take Sony for example; let's say PS+ allows them to expand out to do smaller reboots or sequels for games like Parappa, Tomba!, Jumping Flash etc. that they make available for PS5, either buy them digitally or maybe some of them get released into PS+ Extra or Premium (like what they're doing with Stray). Another option could be, for some of those smaller type of games, they could scale versions down for a $100/$150 "PlayStation Retro" console that's not just a (this time GOOD) emulation system for PS1 games, but also can play digital and physical copies of a new Tomba! or Parappa game with PS1-style packaging (of course also meaning the system would be able to play disc PS1 games), etc. That's just a quick example, but hopefully it makes sense.
Click to expand...
Who would the games come from though?

Which publishers will justify them focusing on retro style games that are so low tech that it puts a wall between them and the stuff on Ps5/Xbox?

Remember much of game development is iteration and all this would do is ensure a glut of low tech developers that aren't equipped to move onto the higher end consoles.

Novelty only goes so far
 
Amin_Parker

Amin_Parker

Member
I believe that Apple or Google or any big company could actually release a console and compete for the long-term and garner a huge following but it seems as though each and every one of these companies from Amazon all the way down to Apple would rather release a super powerful console or super powerful streaming services to compete directly with the Xbox and Playstation brand instead of using some common sense to release a weaker console to compete with the Nintendo brand because let's be honest all it would really take is for someone to release a weak console similar in power to the Nintendo hybrid consoles that way the company cannot grow broke trying to establish itself in a very expensive competitive market. They could try to compete with Nintendo in the Family Market or even the children Market by focusing on younger Gamers or even focus on female gamers sadly the only company really doing that is Nintendo. For some reason each and every one of these new companies or should I say extremely large corporations want to focus on what Sony and Microsoft is doing and compete directly with them in the graphic race which makes no sense to me. This is why Nintendo is never going to go anywhere this is why they will never die they will always be able to have Hardware on the market because no one wants to compete directly with them whether thats in the hybid console Market, the children Market, the women Market, the Casual Market or the expanded gamer Market. Everyone keep letting Nintendo compete against themselves and that's why it is so hard for a new company to release a successful streaming service or a successful console because they keep trying to compete in the hardcore gamer Market where its already a tight race between the two establishment companies Microsoft and sony
 
spons

spons

Gold Member
cireza said:
Isn't Switch still 300+ $ new ? 300$ is not "low" cost.
Click to expand...
Switch Lite isn't.

Also this thread is based on the illusion that you there is no marketing involved, no R&D, nothing. If you want a professional product, be ready to invest millions.
 
Gp1

Gp1

Member
Why someone would buy a low cost indie console when you have something like Series S with a robust and well established ecosystem completely integrated with the PC market?
 
Banjo64

Banjo64

cumsessed
cireza said:
Isn't Switch still 300+ $ new ? 300$ is not "low" cost.
Click to expand...
Switch Lite goes on sale all the time for between £140 and £160

I got my Switch Oled brand new from Very a couple of months after it’s release on offer for £244.

I’m not sure how much lower you can go price wise without completely forsaking quality control. Are these Chinese £100 consoles going to last a full 7 year console generation?
 
Banjo64

Banjo64

cumsessed
cireza said:
You are absolutely right. Completely forgot about it, even though I own one lol.
Click to expand...
No problem, I thought you might have been ignoring the lite because it’s a pure handheld and this debate is around home consoles (which would have been valid 👍)
 
spons

spons

Gold Member
Also, "their own handhelds"? Almost every single Chinese emulation handheld is the same thing: an underpowered Rockchip SoC being sold for 100 bucks or even more. Make no mistake, they absolutely bank on this shit.
 
T

Three

Member
Oof85 said:
No.

The main obstacle to such an entrant is the content line.

If someone does put out a low price hardware, will the publishers support it over Switch/Ps5/Xbox/Pc?

People are rightfully gunshy about new nonbig three hardware proposals.

Many came and went over the years, and the built in audiences for such low requirement games are largely already being fed by the three.

So unless this potential newcomer has their own inhouse publishing arm and they can ensure a steady stream of releases to prove their commitment to succeed, it's doa.
Click to expand...
Which is why I believe that if anybody does enter, the content line would be a mobile SoC device and/or streaming.
 
Last edited:
yurinka

yurinka

Member
Not yet. But the chinese portable consoles and specially Steam Deck are opening the gate to PC based handheld consoles. In a few years, once costs decrease enough to make a handheld with tv out like Steamdeck but more powerful (let's say Zen 2 RDNA2 and same speeds, RAM and storage like a Series S) and way cheaper than the current SteamDec there will be market for them.

Specially with dual boot of SteamOS (once it matured enough to support way more games and emulators) and Android and if adding 5G and wifi 6 for game streaming and multiplayer. Once wifi 6 routers become more mainstream and the internet quality improves a bit more these devices will be super appealing to many people.

You'll have in a single hybrid console basically any PC and mobile game and emulator plus mobile apps and any game streaming service with horsepower similar than a Series S and cheaper than the current Steamdeck. And if desired you'll be able to connect it to the tv.

I can see Samsung, Apple, Razer and others implementing this.
 
Last edited:
SportsFan581

SportsFan581

Member
PhaseJump said:
Yes, but only if Tommy Tallarico is involved.
Click to expand...

You joke, but I actually think his pitch might have had some legs if it was handled right. Specifically the no violence, family friendly angle. There is a certain subset of mom's out there that you might be able to make a good push for.
 
Belthazar

Belthazar

Member
Not with all 3 big companies thriving. If you think about it, both Sony and Microsoft entered the market when there was a big gap that allowed them to capitalize on players lacking where to play. Sony came when Sega was in a very tight situation and mostly thrived due to how Nintendo fumbled with the N64 during that gen. It was the same with Microsoft, that entered the market when it basically only had Playstation at a good position, as the Dreamcast was already dead and the GameCube flopped harder than the N64 by the end of the generation. And even then, the Xbox wasn't that much of a success either... They only managed to have a big generation on their second try, mostly due to Sony's terrible decisions with the PS3.

So why would the consumer and publishers embark on a new platform at this point where there's 3 viable and established options.

The only way I see a company entering the console space is if there's some sudden interest in giants like Google or Amazon, but they would need to be very agressive with acquisitions and exclusivity deals for it to have a fighting chance. Like, imagine if Amazon suddenly buys Square Enix, Rockstar, Capcom, Ubisoft, THQ Nordic, Devolver, Anapurna and a dozen more indie studios... They would suddenly become very hard to ignore as a consumer. But I don't think it'll ever happen tbh.
 
Last edited:
dcx4610

dcx4610

Member
Nope. It's called the Nintendo Switch. Even though it's still not cheap, it's cheaper than the competition and fills the niche.

Casual gamers are still the biggest gaming audience and they aren't going to buy a random clone or Chinese system. It has to be simple and something they've heard of.
 
Last edited:
PhaseJump

PhaseJump

Banned
The_Mike said:
He said low cost.

Unless you meant low production cost for apple.
Click to expand...

Apple has money and leverage.

iPod Touch wasn't expensive, and they could revive a device in that range, made for gaming with their own silicon, to give entry level access to Apple Arcade and other services.

It would likely trigger Nintendo management take retirement options and cause the whole industry to lose it's mind and make partnerships with them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

The concequences if Valve tried a 2nd attempt at entering the console market?
2
61
2K
V1LÆM replied
Putin's 'sovereign' gaming console projects detailed, one with a homegrown Elbrus CPU, the other a Chinese knockoff
News Hardware 2
71
4K
SportsFan581 replied
The time is now for Valve to re-enter the console market
Analysis Hardware Platform 2
73
4K
ArtHands replied
  • Poll
PS4 Portable - would you buy one?
2 3
130
4K
GoldenEye98 replied
What would it take for a new company to enter console business?
34
1K
Papa_Wisdom replied
Top Bottom