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[Chairmanchuck]

Also why is Tibet heavily militaraly monitored and westerners are largely prohibited from visiting or talking to the populace.

When I was in Tibet, I could easily speak to the people there without any problems (I can speak Chinese). And I am a German.

It might not be what all Tibetans think, but to the people I talked about (and not just in Lhasa) they think that what the Chinese government did before is the worst thing they could do, but they also wonder how right now they could live without the government if they would have been an own country so some were grateful, some still bitter but "accepted" it.
The young people there also didnt seem to care that much in my experience and saw themselves as Chinese even though they are not Han.

I really hate to defend China, since the government does a lot of crap, but usually in those threads people who have never been to that country dont know much about it.

Its like "Chinese government bans time-travel and shows with homosexual content", while on CCTV you still see a lot of these shows.


Edit: To clarifiy and add something to the topic: Its shitty of Marvel to do that.

 

[shoreu]

If you think that they are entirely unrelated, then I don't know what to tell you. They are entirely the same scenarios but with different variables.

1. MTV excludes black people to avoid offending white people.

2. Marvel excludes Tibet/Tibetan people to avoid offending the Chinese government.

3. X company excludes LGBT people to avoid offending the Russian government.

It's a company pandering to a powerful majority for the sake of profit and the detriment of marginalized people.

Number 3 is different from number 2 number 3 supports a lifestyle that excludes a group of people who are discriminated against

2. Takes out a location to please a country it doesn't support the anti gay nature of Russia.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Number 3 is different from number 2 number 3 supports a lifestyle that excludes a group of people who are discriminated against

2. Takes out a location to please a country it doesn't support the anti gay nature of Russia.

There is no LGBT lifestyle. Further, the exclusion of Tibet resulted in the exclusion of an Asian actor as well.

 

[anaron]

Who is defending this? I dont see many people doing that

here's a couple:

I feel like I'm missing the reason why I should be afraid or disgusted by Hollywood's trend of accommodating Chinese audiences. Why should I feel bitter that Chinese people buy a lot of movie tickets?

It was kinda funny to see George Takei really blow up about this on Facebook the other day saying "Marvel thinks we're all idiots! Join with me and condemn Marvel for this heinous act!" and most of the comments said "Nah, I think your wrong George. We're good."

Personally, I'd like to give Marvel the benefit of the doubt since all the movies have offered new takes of characters. They probably would've gone with Tilda doing a non-Asian Ancient One regardless of intending to pander.

As someone who's not too familiar with the bad blood between China and Tibet, is it a unanimous thing in China, our is it a government plus a portion of the general population? I just wonder if maybe there'd be a portion of the population who wouldn't care and would want to see the movie despite the government forbidding it for THEIR reasons.

I mean sure, it sucks that Marvel has the greed to "allow" this and not say "screw your politics China, we're going for accuracy!" But I really feel like getting more people to be able to see the movie without any political drama attached isn't the worst thing in the world.

Hollywood makes movies, not history books.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

This is like the third or fourth thread about it, and every time we have people defending it (such as the person earlier who said that Marvel movies aren't history).

Didnt saw this post, but I have to admit that this is the first time I see a thread about that topic.

 

[El Topo]

Didnt saw this post, but I have to admit that this is the first time I see a thread about that topic.

We've had a seven-page thread about a statement by the scriptwriter. Plenty of people seemed okay with it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1209076

 

[Cuburt]

Seems like it could be constued as a political statement either way.

It while it could be argued that Marvel keep it and just don't ever care about the Chinese B.O. again for the name of creative integrity, this is one case where the story isn't supposed to be meant as a statement to begin with so I don't see why they should be expected to take a side at all.

It's just weird to me that Mandarin gets changed and it's like people are cool because the view him as a racist characature, essentially just side stepping the issue, but when it comes to a far more political issue, suddenly it's pandering and censorship and bowing down to the Chinese. Is that the unspoken sentiment for people wanting to see diversity? Studios "pandering" and "bowing down" to minorities for a piece of their money? It's certainly a part of it, you can't divorce studio politics from the money, but let's not also act like the one's that you want to feel good about are completely altruistic.

 

[Garlador]

What does this have to do with the whitewashing of one of the few Asian characters in MCU and the surrounding nonsense? It's like pointing out that for the Ancient One they're casting a woman, a severely underrepresented demographic in MCU. Doesn't change anything regarding the discussion and it doesn't absolve them.

Well, Baron Mordo is a Transylvanian nobleman (born in Varf Mandra)... and they race-bent it and cast Chiwetel Ejiofor. If there are few Asian characters in comics, there are VASTLY fewer Translyvanian ones (I'm being intentionally coy and I'm more than okay with it, fwiw).

People made a big stink out of Idris Elba as Heimdall at the time too.

Is this supposed to cancel out the criticism of Tilda Swinton?

Nope. But I think he should be a part of the discussion, no?

 

[conman]

Seems like it could be constued as a political statement either way.

Of course it's political either way. It just sucks that money is deciding Marvel/Disney's politics for them, rather than, well, you know, actual politics.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Seems like it could be constued as a political statement either way.

It while it could be argued that Marvel keep it and just don't ever care about the Chinese B.O. again for the name of creative integrity, this is one case where the story isn't supposed to be meant as a statement to begin with so I don't see why they should be expected to take a side at all.

But keeping with the character as an Asian Tibetan (or Indian) man is not a political statement. Changing it is.

 

[Htown]

Yep. This whole thing is fucked up.

 

[kswiston]

And people would be right to complain. maybe they should have thought about that when they decided to stick with Stephen being another white super hero on film

Instead they have pushed it even further and now we have a white person becoming a master learning from another white person in the middle of Asia

True. But we know perfectly well that Strange not being white wasnt on the table. Given that being locked in stone, all you are left with is problem options.

And really, the majority of the moviegoing audience isnt going to care which doesnt help.

Asian representation in Hollywood will continue to be pretty dismal because Asian Americans are a small enough minority to safely ignore from a financial perspective and Asia has its own thriving entertainment industry. They might like seeing their local actors occasionally featured in Hollywood films, but I dont think most people in China, India, Japan, etc really care that Hollywood films are basically a ton of white people with a few black roles sprinkled in when they have their own films that are as big or bigger locally.

 

[ScatheZombie]

I really hate to defend China, since the government does a lot of crap, but usually in those threads people who have never been to that country dont know much about it.

Its like "Chinese government bans time-travel and shows with homosexual content", while on CCTV you still see a lot of these shows.

I think you misunderstand what I was saying because I was talking about the rules for foreign media to pass the Ministry of Culture evaluation - which I've had to go through on two products were we attempting to release in China - not what China media itself produces.

There's vastly different rules for foreign and domestic content in China. I wasn't saying the Chinese government bans shows with homosexual content - but that if you are a foreign media outlet producing content for release in China, homosexual content will get you flagged most of the time - and the solution to that is usually editing or bribes.

 

[btown]

But keeping with the character as an Asian Tibetan (or Indian) man is not a political statement. Changing it is.

Keeping the character as a Tibetan is also a political statement. They'd basically be saying "We recognize Tibet as a distinct entity" when the Chinese govt has been saying the opposite for decades.

Indian may have worked, although China and India are not exactly friendly with each other.

 

[Sec0nd]

I don't really have a stake in this conversation, nor have I properly read up on the situation. But this seems to get a lot of attention which I don't entirely understand. Having the Ancient One be from Tibet wouldn't have been some grand political stance against the Chinese government. Nor wouldn't it have created awareness or attention to the Tibetan/Chinese situation (if there is any? I dunno). People just wouldn't have known or care about it at all if it wasn't for this situation. So I guess it was either risking to lose millions of dollars or doing something very few people would've cared about.

Should all Axis soldiers in WW2 films be played by actual Germans? Should all Soviet soldiers be played by actual Russians? Meh, I dunno. Give me a good a fun story and I honestly don't care about those details. Or is that insensitive to say?

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I think you misunderstand what I was saying because I was talking about the rules for foreign media to pass the Ministry of Culture evaluation - which I've had to go through on two products were we attempting to release in China - not what China media itself produces.

There's different rules for foreign and domestic content in China. I wasn't saying the Chinese government bans shows with homosexual content - but that if you are a foreign media outlet producing content for release in China, homosexual content will get you flagged most of the time - and the solution to that is editing or bribes.

Alright. Seems I misunderstood you. Its kinda strange though and doesnt make sense (I know a lot of things dont make sense. I know 2 high-ranking politicians there...), but how come they can produce their own dramas with homosexual content but still have to check foreign publications about that and these will get you flagged?
In the end you still have those dramas running on CCTV. Whether they are domestic or foreign produced shouldnt make any difference (to me at least).

Sorry I came off as a bit "mad". Wasnt my intention. Just seeing that in a lot of those threads, people dont actually know whats happening inside of China:

Spoiler

Like in the "Government bans time-travel, homosexual stuff"-thread. If you watch Chinese TV, you will see that those are just things they are saying, but usually not follow. Seems it might be different about foreign media though.

Edit: Btw. Just a thought. If you release a game, couldnt you just release it on Steam? I mean there are some Otome-games on Steam, that are available in China and it seems no one is checking those (yet).

 

[kswiston]

Keeping the character as a Tibetan is also a political statement. They'd basically be saying "We recognize Tibet as a distinct entity" when the Chinese govt has been saying the opposite for decades.

Indian may have worked, although China and India are not exactly friendly with each other.

Ancient one was from the fake country of Kamar Taj in comics unless that was retconned recently

 

[shoreu]

There is no LGBT lifestyle. Further, the exclusion of Tibet resulted in the exclusion of an Asian actor as well.

If I'm not mistaken Russia certanly treats them differently.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

If I'm not mistaken Russia certanly treats them differently.

I think the poster meant to say that there is no special lifestyle affilated with being gay, bi, lesbian or trans.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Keeping the character as a Tibetan is also a political statement. They'd basically be saying "We recognize Tibet as a distinct entity" when the Chinese govt has been saying the opposite for decades.

Indian may have worked, although China and India are not exactly friendly with each other.

it literally is not a political statement. The bare minimum would be that they did it for the sake of acknowledging that Tibet is a distinct entity.

I think the poster meant to say that there is no special lifestyle affilated with being gay, bi, lesbian or trans.

Yep

 

[El Topo]

Well, Baron Mordo is a Transylvanian nobleman (born in Varf Mandra)... and they race-bent it and cast Chiwetel Ejiofor.

Transylvanian is not a race/ethnicity. Nationality is irrelevant for the discussion, otherwise one would point out how Thor is Australian or Strange is British or Red Skull Australian-British.

If there are few Asian characters in comics, there are VASTLY fewer Translyvanian ones (I'm being intentionally coy and I'm more than okay with it, fwiw).

You are not being coy, you are simply not making sense. We are discussing the whitewashing of an Asian character, an ethnicity/race with generally very little representation, under ludicrous reasoning. No one here has asked for a quota in casting regarding nationalities.

If you want to compare the numbers regarding nationality, let us recall that there are almost 1.4 billion Chinese and less than 8 million Transylvanians. Numbers increase if we extend it to other Asian regions. If we look at the US, I cannot find any statistic about people identifying as Transylvanians. Even if we look at census data from different sources (and thus not actually comparable), Asian-Americans still seem to be a much, much bigger group in the US.

People made a big stink out of Idris Elba as Heimdall at the time too.

Would you be so kind and back that up? For example, kindly point me to a NeoGAF thread with hundreds of posts? I recall some minor outrage among nerds and the expected outrage among the expected circles.

 

[CaviarMeths]

here's a couple:

I didn't defend it. I asked why I should be angry. The answer I was given is that the Russian government has terrible views on homosexuality and this is comparable to Tibet's current status within China.

In follow-up, I asked if Tibetans were marginalized to the extent that avoiding an offensive stereotype was a poor decision. This is something I really don't know. I've never been to Tibet or attended a Tibetan Independence rally. In my limited understanding of the relationship between Tibet and the Chinese government, I don't know if it would be better for Marvel to openly condemn China's stance on Tibetan sovereignty or to avoid the risk of offending a country with a racist stereotype.

 

[btown]

Ancient one was from the fake country of Kamar Taj in comics unless that was retconned recently

Everyone keeps bringing up Tibet though.

 

[a Master Ninja]

George Takei is a national treasure.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Would you be so kind and back that up? For example, kindly point me to a NeoGAF thread with hundreds of posts?

This definitly happend, I wasnt at NeoGAF at that time, but there were a lot of people who really lost their mind over this and complaining, "that black people arent part of the norse mythology" while beeing completly ok with Hogun, which is almost the same, just with a character who looks asian.
Got in a few hot arguments with these people back then.

 

[Bleepey]

Regardless of what Marvel Studios could've done, it would have been a lose-lose situation.

Can we do a decision tree of a potential action, resulting effect and how it pisses someone off.

Make the Ancient One Chinese? -------->Piss of Tibetans?
Make the Ancient One Tibetan? --------> Piss of China
Make the Ancient One Indian or some other Asian? --------> Not faithful to the character and piss of some Asian groups
Make the Ancient One Black/Latino/mixed? --------> See above
Set it in fictional Asian country? --------> Piss of China
Not use the Ancient one?------> Not faithful to the character and piss of Asian people.

Am i missing anything?

 

[Phased]

here's a couple:

None of those posts are defending it, they're apathetic towards the issue.

Not everyone views this as a big deal. It doesn't mean they support or defend one position or another, it just means they don't think it's this huge issue some people make it out to be.

 

[El Topo]

This definitly happend, I wasnt at NeoGAF at that time, but there were a lot of people who really lost their mind over this and complaining, "that black people arent part of the norse mythology" while beeing completly ok with Hogun, which is almost the same, just with a character who looks asian.
Got in a few hot arguments with these people back then.

I know it happened. I know there's articles about supposed outrage, mostly among conservatives and racists. I'd just like to see some back up regarding how this discussion has blown up among nerds and NeoGAF. It should not be surprising however that casting someone black over a white comic character would stir up conservatives a lot more.

As I also pointed out earlier, I don't see the relevance regarding this discussion. It seems like Garlador is just trying to distract from the discussion and absolve Marvel from a problematic decision.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I don't really have a stake in this conversation, nor have I properly read up on the situation. But this seems to get a lot of attention which I don't entirely understand. Having the Ancient One be from Tibet wouldn't have been some grand political stance against the Chinese government. Nor wouldn't it have created awareness or attention to the Tibetan/Chinese situation (if there is any? I dunno). People just wouldn't have known or care about it at all if it wasn't for this situation. So I guess it was either risking to lose millions of dollars or doing something very few people would've cared about.

Should all Axis soldiers in WW2 films be played by actual Germans? Should all Soviet soldiers be played by actual Russians? Meh, I dunno. Give me a good a fun story and I honestly don't care about those details. Or is that insensitive to say?

When a people's representation is so often ignored and roles that were written as that being a defining characteristic I do think its intensive. Germans and Russians never have been lacking in representation.

 

[Garlador]

Transylvanian is not a race/ethnicity. Nationality is irrelevant for the discussion, otherwise one would point out how Thor is Australian or Strange is British or Red Skull Australian-British.

Again, I said I was being intentionally coy.
Baron Mordo was, however, white. Very white.

Marvel changed his race and ethnicity entirely. I don't even care, because the actor they cast is phenomenal, but it's still a deliberate and intentional subversion of his original ethnicity and race in a societal era demanding more diversity.

You are not being coy, you are simply not making sense. We are discussing the whitewashing of an Asian character, an ethnicity/race with generally very little representation, under ludicrous reasoning. No one here has asked for a quota in casting regarding nationalities.

And I didn't say you were wrong, did I? They're blackwashing (is that a thing?) a white character, hardly the first they've done so as well, and they've take great strides in diversifying their character rosters and support roles with minority roles even since Iron Man 1. When is race and gender-bending acceptable? Is it ONLY when one minority is under-represented?

If you want to compare the numbers regarding nationality, let us recall that there are almost 1.4 billion Chinese and less than 8 million Transylvanians. If we look at the US, I cannot find any statistic about people identifying as Transylvanians.

You're reading too much into my jab. I'm not saying Transylvanians are more important than Chinese people. In fact, screw the Transyvlanians. They've given me nothing but blood-suckers, musty castles, and terrible movie adaptions.

They had it coming.

Would you be so kind and back that up? For example, kindly point me to a NeoGAF thread with hundreds of posts? I recall some minor outrage among nerds and the expected outrage among the expected circles.

On NeoGAF? I sure hope not, but there was a lot of news coverage over it among the more racially-hateful of the nation. A LOT of noise that amounted to nothing, but a lot of noise nonetheless. Same with Michael B. Jordan as the Human Torch.
It sucks, but at least they're mostly ignored.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Nope. But I think he should be a part of the discussion, no?

Considering black men, for as shitty of a deal they get, are still drastically more represented in Hollywood than asian actors (whether east or south), I don't see the relevance. They cast a black actor in a traditionally white role. That's good. Doesn't change that a role for an asian actor was cast as a white person.

 

[btown]

Can we do a decision tree of a potential action, resulting effect and how it pisses someone off.

Make the Ancient One Chinese? -------->Piss of Tibetans?
Make the Ancient One Tibetan? --------> Piss of China
Make the Ancient One Indian or some other Asian? --------> Not faithful to the character and piss of some Asian groups
Make the Ancient One Black/Latino/mixed? --------> See above
Set it in fictional Asian country? --------> Piss of China
Not use the Ancient one?------> Not faithful to the character and piss of Asian people.

Am i missing anything?

Make the Ancient One an alien/demon/cloud ------> Piss off nerds on the internet

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Hollywood makes movies, not history books.

So why rewrite history? Erasing an entire country is pretty fucking drastic, especially considering the only reason is not losing face in China.

I think this is disgusting.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

That's enough to make me not watch the movie now.

 

[Cocaloch]

I'm admittedly not well-read on the political climate. Are Tibetans marginalized? Would making a stand for Tibetan Independence be a more noble move for Marvel than avoiding a racist and potentially offensive stereotype to a very large audience?

I mean yes this is the traditional narrative. It was an an independent nation by the early 20th century, though they had been previously controlled by China, until it was conquered in the 50's.

Number 3 is different from number 2 number 3 supports a lifestyle that excludes a group of people who are discriminated against

2. Takes out a location to please a country it doesn't support the anti gay nature of Russia.

lol okay. We as a society tend to not be a fan of Imperialism, but I guess it's okay this time for some reason.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

So why rewrite history? Erasing an entire country is pretty fucking drastic, especially considering the only reason is not losing face in China.

Isnt that just what the poster of this commentary think?

I actually dont know whether they removed it because of China. I dont know, but would topics in the movie talk about the tibet/china conflict?
I mean Tibet is one of the most important tourist-hotspots for Chinese people. On CCTV you see documentaries about beautiful Tibet, the chinese TV brand manufacturers use Tibet for their 4K demo-videos.

I honestly dont know.

 

[Fusebox]

Pretty shitty reason for them to leave Tibet out of Dr Strangers story. I feel like I just googled Tiananmen from Google.cn.

 

[CaviarMeths]

I mean yes this is the traditional narrative. They were an an independent nation by the early 20th century, though they had been previously controlled by China, until conquered in the 50's.

Right, I'm aware of that much. I just don't know much of anything about current political climate. Cursory glance through Google doesn't tell me much more. Apparently the movement for a free Tibet is headed mostly by American celebrities and ethnic Tibetans in India. The Dalai Lama, oddly, doesn't appear to support independence.

I dunno. I'm getting the impression that it's a very complicated issue with almost no information available to say what's right one way or the other.

Pretty shitty reason for them to leave Tibet out of Dr Strangers story. I feel like I just googled Tiananmen from Google.cn.

But I think my understanding of Tibet is at least good enough to know that this is a really bad comparison.

 

[Garlador]

Considering black men, for as shitty of a deal they get, are still drastically more represented in Hollywood than asian actors (whether east or south), I don't see the relevance. They cast a black actor in a traditionally white role. That's good. Doesn't change that a role for an asian actor was cast as a white person.

Never said it didn't. They probably should have cast an Asian individual, but when a film is race and gendering bending a lot of characters, does one off-set the other, or do BOTH have some merit to the changes? Is it commendable to make the Ancient One a woman, for instance, while at the same time not be commendable for making her white? Is it commendable to make a guy with the name Varf Mandra a black Englishmen? Is it so (dare I say) black and white, or are their varying degrees of appropriateness?

I remember being okay with black Nick Fury, yet I wasn't as fond of Michael B. Jordan's Human Torch and how race was handled (or not handled) in the film. I remember being okay that "The Mandarin" in Iron Man 3 turned out to be a British buffoon wielding fear of "the foreign other" as a means of manipulative control, yet I was disappointed when Ra's Al Ghul in Batman Begins was just a British guy (Ken Watanabe was wasted...). I remember being okay with Hal Jordan as the default Green Lantern in Justice League, but I was upset when Bane was played by Tom Hardy instead of someone of Hispanic origins. And for all those situations I just mentioned, someone felt the opposite about everything.

 

[Cocaloch]

Right, I'm aware of that much. I just don't know much of anything about current political climate. Cursory glance through Google doesn't tell me much more. Apparently the movement for a free Tibet is headed mostly by American celebrities and ethnic Tibetans in India. The Dalai Llama, oddly, doesn't appear to support independence.

I dunno. I'm getting the impression that it's a very complicated issue with almost no information available to say what's right one way or the other.

The vast majority of issues are complicated. The fact that the majority of people in Tibet may not, and for obvious reason relating to the Chinese state we really have no clue if this is true, be advocating violent removal from China isn't saying much about the morality of the action. Most of the Indians weren't planing an active revolt against the British in the 19th century, but I don't think too many people think that the Raj was all hunky dory.

Like what is the argument that you supports the Chinese state here besides don't rock the boat?

 

[anaron]

None of those posts are defending it, they're apathetic towards the issue.

Not everyone views this as a big deal. It doesn't mean they support or defend one position or another, it just means they don't think it's this huge issue some people make it out to be.

Downplaying it as an example of outrage culture or treating it like it's no big deal is contributing to the idiotic mindset that allowed for this casting. It matters.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Hm. It seems to me, from some posts here and in previous examples, that China is ok with mentioning Tibet- in the previous thread a movie made in China that took place/was about Tibet was brought up as an example.

The issue is that anything being imported into China has stricter regulations governing it than domestically made media. Alot stricter. And this is due to Chinas own censorship I assume.

So movie studios are between a rock and a hard place. They have to appease the Ministry, because China is a fucking huge market, while at the same time be under scrutiny from Western folk who want Marvel to "do the right thing", in this case calling out the erasure of Tibet and the whitewashing. I agree on the latter, that it shoudlve been an asian actress. I disagree with the former, when making a product and trying to export it to a country that has a massive audience with the caveat that you have to go through unfair, strict regulations compared to their homegrown media, then Marvel biting their tongue and appeasing their Ministry is the right choice for their product.

 

[Stinkles]

Well, Cumberbatch doesn't seem particularly Tibetian anyway. Maybe if they had picked an Asian actor and then decided not to use the unusual background, that would have been weird.

He looked Tibetan in Cloud Atlas tho.

 

[CaviarMeths]

The vast majority of issues are complicated. The fact that the majority of people in Tibet may not, and for obvious reason relating to the Chinese state we really have no clue if this is true, be advocating violent removal from China isn't saying much about the morality of the action. Most of the Indians weren't planing an active revolt against the British in the 19th century, but I don't think too many people think that the Raj was all hunky dory.

Like what is the argument that you supports the Chinese state here besides don't rock the boat?

I'm not sure I would call it not rocking the boat. The Chinese government is a big mess and holds some pretty shitty opinions, no two ways about it. I just don't like prescribing to one point of view with so little information. That's why I was asking and Googling about it. I don't mean to downplay or deny any wrongdoings to the Tibetan people. I'd rather be informed of them.

Downplaying it as an example of outrage culture or treating it like it's no big deal is contributing to the idiotic mindset that allowed for this casting. It matters.

If you want, you can stop talking about me and talk to me. I don't mind. If you know something that I don't concerning Tibetan-Chinese relations, I'd love to learn about it.

 

[Zhengi]

Never said it didn't. They probably should have cast an Asian individual, but when a film is race and gendering bending a lot of characters, does one off-set the other, or do BOTH have some merit to the changes? Is it commendable to make the Ancient One a woman, for instance, while at the same time not be commendable for making her white? Is it commendable to make a guy with the name Varf Mandra a black Englishmen? Is it so (dare I say) black and white, or are their varying degrees of appropriateness?

I remember being okay with black Nick Fury, yet I wasn't as fond of Michael B. Jordan's Human Torch and how race was handled (or not handled) in the film. I remember being okay that "The Mandarin" in Iron Man 3 turned out to be a British buffoon wielding fear of "the foreign other" as a means of manipulative control, yet I was disappointed when Ra's Al Ghul in Batman Begins was just a British guy (Ken Watanabe was wasted...). I remember being okay with Hal Jordan as the default Green Lantern in Justice League, but I was upset when Bane was played by Tom Hardy instead of someone of Hispanic origins. And for all those situations I just mentioned, someone felt the opposite about everything.

I think this will better explain why swapping a White actor to a minority actor is fine:

http://timemachineyeah.tumblr.com/post/58648290519/this-is-a-jar-full-of-major-characters

 

[Dongs Macabre]

People would have still complained about the white guy going to an Asian master and becoming the all powerful chosen one.

I guess Doctor Strange's Asian servant who knows kung fu and magic is fine and dandy, though.

 

[Choppasmith]

None of those posts are defending it, they're apathetic towards the issue.

Not everyone views this as a big deal. It doesn't mean they support or defend one position or another, it just means they don't think it's this huge issue some people make it out to be.

Yep, my whole thought process between these castings has been

Same ethnicity: "Yay for comic book accuracy!"
Different gender and/or ethnicity: "Yay for diversity and having a fresh take on the character."

Except for Jordon as Human Torch. That just felt like a gimmicky "Whee look at us, we've got diversity going on here. SO PROGRESSIVE!"

It's also like people are forgetting Wong is in this.

Edit: LOL beaten.

 

[Timbuktu]

Didn't that Hong Kong stuff actually hurt "The Dark Knight" in China? I remember something like government censors were upset that Batman would infringe on the sovereignty of the nation to bring back Lau.

China kidnaps people regularly from Hong Kong.

I wouldnt say they are pandering to the audience though. The chinese audience didn't ask for this, but marvel is preempting the censors. Zootopia beating kung fu panda shows pandering doesn't work.

 

[riotous]

While the reasoning behind the omission is rooted in something terrible; would the story have actually shed any light on what is going on in Tibet?

I'm unfamiliar with the character backstory; but are there actual political messages in the real backstory?

 

[shoreu]

I think the poster meant to say that there is no special lifestyle affilated with being gay, bi, lesbian or trans.

I meant it in that context like I said before the nation Treats them like they are