Pagusas
Elden Member
Ragnarok is great, honestly Id say 60 - 70% of the the Infinity Saga is still very very enjoyable to watch and makes the current phase feel very blah.
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Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness | Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter ArtHands
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Ulysses 31
Member
Are you tired of superhero movies as a whole or have you just not seen worth while superhero movies in a long while? I'd have trouble believing you'd have these feelings while watching Infinity War.
And around 70-80% was reshot.
I suspect a lot of the Illuminate battle scene was shot with characters in a different location at different times which would explain the lack of interaction as a team.
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Pagusas
Elden Member
Not seen a worthwhile superhero movie in a long time is what I'd say. Even Spiderman No-way Home feels kinda blah on 2nd watch when we saw it again on home relaese, where as many of the original films feel still fresh to us. I have no idea how Infinity War will feel on a rewatch, we havnt made it that far on rewatches yet.
Also, I hate to say this as I love Benedict C, but I don't think he or the Dr Strange are headline hero caliber the likes of Iron Man/Cap. He just doesn't have the relatability or presence like they did.
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Alter_Fridge
Member
Too bad Taika got eaten by the hubris monster in Thor 4
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Pagusas
Elden Member
Havn't even seen it yet, Doctor Strange MoM left such a bad taste in our mouths we decided to skip Thor 4 in theaters and wait for the home release.
Alter_Fridge
Member
I haven't watched it theatrically either, but I've seen and read enough to know
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Alter_Fridge
Member
The amount of humour packed into this 4 minute scene of Ragnarok, probably surpasses all of Phase 4 combined so far. It's that good.
The movie just had a great mix of gravity and levity simultaneously
The movie just had a great mix of gravity and levity simultaneously
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kurisu_1974
Member
It was shit. Just glad I never watched 10 hours of Scarlet Witch TV drama before this, it would have been an even bigger waste of time.
Ulysses 31
Member
But the writing though, America seeing Defender Strange as a traitor when he's actually saving all the multiverses with dying last act, Defender Strange not using the sling ring the movie confirms he had on him all that time...
What about it? Does it affect the intent of the film?
Ulysses 31
Member
If it's bad enough it can certainly detract from it.
It doesn't.
Ulysses 31
Member
If you values things like consistency in the established world building, character development/motivations it might.
How it affects the intent of the film and the overall experience is left to the individual. So, yes, I stand corrected that certainly if someone wants to fixate on that then that myopia will be the keyhole through which they view the film. And they're welcome to do. Others, many others, may have more encompassing views.
Pagusas
Elden Member
I mean we thought the film was awful, so we can look back at lots of things and wonder if little changes could have had a major effect on the quality of the story telling (which the script being the films greatest flaw for us, makes that a viable route to take). I get the impression you think the film is good though, which is interesting, and I'd love to understand more about what you feel made the film decent to good, it might give me insight into the type of movies Marvel is trying to make now and better understand who is attracted to this stuff and who isn't.
While I agree the film was horrible, Wanda Vision actually had some good charm and great moments, I enjoyed it. May be a reason I was so let down by this film, the setup was far better than the actual event.
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Ulysses 31
Member
If more encompassing means less critical of the writing then sure, that's up to the induvial.
Bragr
Banned
It means being more critical in the sense of looking at other parts of the film on their own merits, not through the measure of a single element.
And there being only one America(who lost her family) implies there is something that may make it all matter which we don't know yet.
Ulysses 31
Member
In story/character driven movies, the writing is very important and it's harder to overlook failings. But it doesn't have to mean the movie is bad when all the rest(actors, costumes, sets, special FXs etc.) makes up for it.
It is that's why the discussion can trend towards the afterlife lore in the movies. The FX of the Moonknight battle and how that might look with Zarathos and Mephisto and how that is wound into the film without listening to someone go on and on about "what about this pet peeve of mine!"
Scarlet Witch draws inspiration from a few sources.
Scarlet Woman: Mother of Abominations, the bride of Chaos -from Liber CLVI stands out as a possibility.
Agatha Coven of Chaos
She's processed the mother for the story, does Chthon count as chaos and destroying the darkhold across the multiverse make her his bride?
Prophesies are strange...
Scarlet Woman: Mother of Abominations, the bride of Chaos -from Liber CLVI stands out as a possibility.
Agatha Coven of Chaos
She's processed the mother for the story, does Chthon count as chaos and destroying the darkhold across the multiverse make her his bride?
Prophesies are strange...
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sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Watched it today, what a shitty movie. Can't really pin point what it is about it, but it felt cheap , unemotional and just bad. Ironman 1 shits all over it while having only a thread of some isis fighters and a old guy in a suite... Just because all them universes are at danger doesn't mean you can just not care about making an engaging movie.
Why would I care about any plot points in this movie? Wandas kids that don't exist, Stranges love interest that came out of nowhere, America who I don't even get to know as a person, all she's done is run around ... why should I care about any of this. "The universe is at risk" is not enough.
Why would I care about any plot points in this movie? Wandas kids that don't exist, Stranges love interest that came out of nowhere, America who I don't even get to know as a person, all she's done is run around ... why should I care about any of this. "The universe is at risk" is not enough.
That had to be the most up close and unique horror scenes in a Marvel film yet. The deaths were immediate and detailed. Even corpses. PG13. Fuck yeah.
As some know Disney is familiar with properties that have theosophic background, like Travers' Poppins. Theosophic theories, as applied to witchcraft, contend that as an initiate progresses they become more like a force of nature. This puts the initiate in a bit of a quandary when they need to use magick. Thus sending demons and asking nicely. Even restrained they can destroy cities is how the theory goes. It was nice to see the essence of such a feeling well portrayed.
As some know Disney is familiar with properties that have theosophic background, like Travers' Poppins. Theosophic theories, as applied to witchcraft, contend that as an initiate progresses they become more like a force of nature. This puts the initiate in a bit of a quandary when they need to use magick. Thus sending demons and asking nicely. Even restrained they can destroy cities is how the theory goes. It was nice to see the essence of such a feeling well portrayed.
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InfiniteCombo
Banned
The good:
+ Scarlet Witch
+ Horror-inspired segments
+ Rachel McAdams is still hot
+ Effects and "animations" of the zombie Dr. Strange
The bad:
- EVERYTHING ELSE
Seriously, after how good the first Dr. Strange was, and parts of WandaVision being my favorite things to come out of the whole MCU, this movie was a huge letdown. Who's this "America Chavez?" Is she her own superhero, or some alt-world Captain America? (Rhetorical questions, since I don't care.) Based on her power profile, seems like a new superhero, but the Captain America-motif jean jacket had me wondering for a second. This was arguably less a Dr. Strange movie and more of an America movie. Her quips were horrible. And through 3/4 of the movie, when shit was going down, she would either:
(1) Stand there (literally stand there) looking like a moron with the same constipated look on her face
(2) Run away with a scared look on her face
I loved how my girl Scarlet Witch just induced so much fear into the hearts of everyone. She's so insanely OP, that she:
(1) Defeated the entire crew at Kamar-Taj (wasn't this the entire combined crew of not just the OG Kamar-Taj but also the NY, London, and Hong Kong sanctums!?)
(2) Defeated the entire Illuminati while sleepwalking (well except for 838 Mordor because Dr. Strange defeated him by... leaving him in a ditch? WTF!?)
(3) Wrecked Dr. Strange in every single 1v1, Dr. Strange really had no chance
(4) She just made short work of this Book of Vishanti which the other characters spent the first half of the movie touting as ("ze or my gerd this is the anti-Darkhold and is the most powerful book in the history of evah!!")
The protagonists were so unappealing, and Elizabeth Olsen so good, that at times I found myself rooting for Scarlet Witch to just kill everyone.
Oh ok but all of a sudden the most powerful being in the MCU up to this point is gonna be defeated by "mommy feelz" when teleported there by a teenage chick who has been otherwise useless for 99% of the movie, but all of a sudden got her powers when given a pep talk by Dr. Strange while he was sleepwalk-possessing a zombie version of himself from a different world. What? Given this idiotic turn of events, I can't wait to hear (because I'm not gonna see) how they're gonna defeat Kang the Conqueror when it comes to fighting him.
EDIT: Oh, I forgot, also they made a huge deal of the Scarlet Witch servants, the monster dudes, only for them to get wiped out in like 5 seconds in the final battle. This movie did a lot of that; build shit up only to have it be dissipated in a spectacularly anticlimactic way.
EDIT 2: It was nice for an MCU work to finally acknowledge the X-Men and the Fantastic 4. I really like John Krasinski but he doesn't seem like a great fit for Reed Richards. Also I thought Patrick Stewart wasn't gonna be Xavier anymore after Logan? (Well this probably doesn't count, being a short cameo where they are from an alt-universe and get wrecked by Scarlet Witch pretty quickly, so I assume when they do get introduced, the main 616 versions of Richards and Professor X will be played by other actors.)
No Shuma-Gorath. No Mephisto. Not a lot of Dr. Strange 1v1 Scarlet Witch. (OK maybe that last one would make sense because Dr. Strange would just get completely annihilated.)
Lame movie.
+ Scarlet Witch
+ Horror-inspired segments
+ Rachel McAdams is still hot
+ Effects and "animations" of the zombie Dr. Strange
The bad:
- EVERYTHING ELSE
Seriously, after how good the first Dr. Strange was, and parts of WandaVision being my favorite things to come out of the whole MCU, this movie was a huge letdown. Who's this "America Chavez?" Is she her own superhero, or some alt-world Captain America? (Rhetorical questions, since I don't care.) Based on her power profile, seems like a new superhero, but the Captain America-motif jean jacket had me wondering for a second. This was arguably less a Dr. Strange movie and more of an America movie. Her quips were horrible. And through 3/4 of the movie, when shit was going down, she would either:
(1) Stand there (literally stand there) looking like a moron with the same constipated look on her face
(2) Run away with a scared look on her face
I loved how my girl Scarlet Witch just induced so much fear into the hearts of everyone. She's so insanely OP, that she:
(1) Defeated the entire crew at Kamar-Taj (wasn't this the entire combined crew of not just the OG Kamar-Taj but also the NY, London, and Hong Kong sanctums!?)
(2) Defeated the entire Illuminati while sleepwalking (well except for 838 Mordor because Dr. Strange defeated him by... leaving him in a ditch? WTF!?)
(3) Wrecked Dr. Strange in every single 1v1, Dr. Strange really had no chance
(4) She just made short work of this Book of Vishanti which the other characters spent the first half of the movie touting as ("ze or my gerd this is the anti-Darkhold and is the most powerful book in the history of evah!!")
The protagonists were so unappealing, and Elizabeth Olsen so good, that at times I found myself rooting for Scarlet Witch to just kill everyone.
Oh ok but all of a sudden the most powerful being in the MCU up to this point is gonna be defeated by "mommy feelz" when teleported there by a teenage chick who has been otherwise useless for 99% of the movie, but all of a sudden got her powers when given a pep talk by Dr. Strange while he was sleepwalk-possessing a zombie version of himself from a different world. What?
Given this idiotic turn of events, I can't wait to hear (because I'm not gonna see) how they're gonna defeat Kang the Conqueror when it comes to fighting him.EDIT: Oh, I forgot, also they made a huge deal of the Scarlet Witch servants, the monster dudes, only for them to get wiped out in like 5 seconds in the final battle. This movie did a lot of that; build shit up only to have it be dissipated in a spectacularly anticlimactic way.
EDIT 2: It was nice for an MCU work to finally acknowledge the X-Men and the Fantastic 4. I really like John Krasinski but he doesn't seem like a great fit for Reed Richards. Also I thought Patrick Stewart wasn't gonna be Xavier anymore after Logan? (Well this probably doesn't count, being a short cameo where they are from an alt-universe and get wrecked by Scarlet Witch pretty quickly, so I assume when they do get introduced, the main 616 versions of Richards and Professor X will be played by other actors.)
No Shuma-Gorath. No Mephisto. Not a lot of Dr. Strange 1v1 Scarlet Witch. (OK maybe that last one would make sense because Dr. Strange would just get completely annihilated.)
Lame movie.
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Ulysses 31
Member
The Longman said MoM was one of the worst movies he's seen so far with an over 5 hours breakdown of why.
That's wild someone would spend that much effort on movie they dislike. It speaks to the deep impact the movie can make.
The agenda of that individual must be really threatened by it.
Their opinions are worthless, but the dedication is something else. It's like they've gone insane and are sacrificing their life to complain about a movie.
sol_bad
Member
It's simply to make money, that's all.
I couldn't imagine how mentally unhealthy it would be to just constantly dwell on things you hate. If I'm ever unhappy with a movie, show or game I'll acknowledge it but I won't dwell on it, I'll return to things I enjoy or things I'll potentially enjoy in the future.
Ulysses 31
Member
Oof, you haven't seen his Disney Star Wars videos, have you? Those are even longer.
I believe he has made it his job to critique and discus modern shows/movies and thus he has a lot of time to devote to it.
He's passionate for the quality of writing since that's the heart and soul of stories and he finds the quality severely lacking lately in a lot of productions.
His agenda seems to be wanting writers to do better and be more considerate of established things and continuity.
I don't mind you pre-judging his video but that makes your opinion on it worthless too. He backs up his opinions with examples and references.
Money from attention drawn in a revival meeting way.
When skipping through there was a remark about being full time dedicated to taking down this film. It seemed insane and not an act.
I don't care about Star Wars reviews. Or reviews in general. Those don't matter. That they're even longer doesn't help make this person look better.
A person doesn't have to sit through a complete revival meeting to know what's going on and what the opinions will be.
If the person can put their views into an objective concise form that would be more convincing than a rant.
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Ulysses 31
Member
Not sure what you mean with revival meeting. He's been appearing on streams discussing things for years now.
If one doesn't have the time to watch his long videos that's fair enough but then I don't see that as grounds to dismiss them as unfair malicious videos.
He does have summaries at the end however his style is the long video essay form where he goes through entire movie describing it and then breaking down the scene in chronological order. And since a picture can say a 1000 words(themes, world building, character development, connective tissue, etc.) it can get long, especially if you're breaking down why things aren't/are working well together.
There is no qualified reviewing in the outtakes I watched.
Tedious complaining, yes.
It doesn't even sound like you watch that stuff.
Ulysses 31
Member
It did watch most of it(on 1.5 speed) and I think he did fine laying out what did and didn't work in the movie for him. He also went into the production issues behind the scenes to possibly explain what caused the issues he saw.
There's some redundant complaints since the movie has continuity issues throughout.
Sounds like you don't have anything solid against the issues being brought up and have to resort to characterisations.
If you don't like his style or find his voice grating and don't wanna watch, just say so. No need to make up silly excuses.
But if you're up to it, I'd challenge you to watch up to the 7 min mark and point out things he's getting wrong in the part where defender Strange and America run away till they get portalled into 616 universe.
There's nothing specific offered to challenge. That would require the person that posted the reviewer to put in their post.
Put that 7 minutes into your own thoughts and present them.
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Ulysses 31
Member
You're the one who brought up agendas and worth of his opinions so I came up with that little challenge to see if you can actually show it being worthless like you said with obvious mistakes being made that you could point out but it seems you're not to the task.
I did nothing of the sort, just presented the video of someone who thinks MoM is one of the worst movies to date.
His agenda was plainly laid out. He said it was to take down the movie right in the show. After that it's clear there is nothing objective to the reviewer. It's all that agenda.
How can you not understand this other than you being in complete denial? There's no worming out of this.
Ulysses 31
Member
Yes, he saw the movie in theatres and thought it was exceptionally bad so he wanted to make a video about it for a while now.
Why you assume he had already decided his opinion before ever seeing the movie is a strange leap you're making. He liked No Way Home so why would he pre-hate the follow up movie to that?
sol_bad
Member
Jesus christ!!!
Ulysses 31
Member
I had a few breaks in between, don't worry.
No he didn't.
He just baselessly complained and made faulty assumptions.
I didn't.
sol_bad
Member
I had a few breaks in between, don't worry.
Oh
Do you mean the YouTube video?
I thought you meant Multiverse of Madness itself.
lol
To think there are people who would watch someone complain about MoM for hours rather than watch something else.
That says a lot about how great MoM is in cinema.
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Ulysses 31
Member
He does, the movie is full of characters not using their abilities they've been shown to have, acting out of character, breaking continuity with new things the movie establishes(incursions).
He points them all(the big ones at least).
Show me some of those.
But it's still wrong of him to want to make a video explaining why he didn't like a movie after seeing it?
He doesn't know what he's talking about at all.
It's a waste of time to for anyone objective to watch more or put more effort into unless they want to review the reviewer. Which should be its own thread.
If there is something specific(and in detail[maybe even include your own thoughts on a show for a change]) that you can bring forward from the review instead of some general claim of its existence then maybe I'll engage. I'm not going to watch enough of the video to give monetary benefit to that vapid blowhard and his worthless opinions.
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