Nah, thats just that Tardis going dont want to regenerate you selfish bastard? Try this then'
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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time
- Thread starter tomtom94
- Start date
Nah, thats just that Tardis going dont want to regenerate you selfish bastard? Try this then'
SlipperyFishes
Banned
To be honest it was telegraphed from the start. Especially Bills death.
The very first teaser "A time for heroes" ended with her saying that she has no regrets. Even if it kills her.
Man, that was good. That was real good. I thought that was by far the best of the Moffat/Capaldi finale second halves. Loved how they handled the Master/Missy and Bill stories (though the latter was a little hampered by me forgetting just about everything about who/what The Pilot was, lol). Also loved that last tease at the end, and Twelve's own rage-against-the-dying-of-the-light moment.
Agent Gibbs
Member
I really loved that episode, i've always liked episodes where the Doctor works with the Master, and the Master reluctantly agrees I think the only thing i didn't like especially was ...
But man why did Missy have to just die there, without the Doctor knowing she was coming back for him? that was so bitter sweat, i would have loved for when bill showed up in the burnt forest, to find the Doctor with Missy dead and her hand on him.
I suppose that would have then meant that the Pilot and Bill would have had to take here with them, or leave her behind. I just wanted more missy and more of a hint she/he survived before, or the potential for her to be a companion a little longer, before the inevitable new regenerated Master/Missy pops up as a villain again.
Its easily explained how Missy will survive, she remembered an angry woman demanding they keep a spare part, she may well have remembered shooting a woman in the back with full power laser screw driver and knew to wear the equivalent of a bullet proof vest.
What about Nardol then? will the Doctor go back? i mean he really needs to
Yup felt too Clara 2.0
But man why did Missy have to just die there, without the Doctor knowing she was coming back for him? that was so bitter sweat, i would have loved for when bill showed up in the burnt forest, to find the Doctor with Missy dead and her hand on him.
I suppose that would have then meant that the Pilot and Bill would have had to take here with them, or leave her behind. I just wanted more missy and more of a hint she/he survived before, or the potential for her to be a companion a little longer, before the inevitable new regenerated Master/Missy pops up as a villain again.
Its easily explained how Missy will survive, she remembered an angry woman demanding they keep a spare part, she may well have remembered shooting a woman in the back with full power laser screw driver and knew to wear the equivalent of a bullet proof vest.
What about Nardol then? will the Doctor go back? i mean he really needs to
SlipperyFishes
Banned
It's addressed here. He went back to Gallifrey, they fixed him and he left again.
Honestly now, It may well be because I've been watching Twin Peaks recently. But that Finale was insultingly bad. Either through Moffats hubris or just his stupidity, he believes he can have it both ways he believes he can have all these climax moments without actually having to deal with the consequences.
He's proven time and time again he's incapable of writing a plot that isn't filled with riddled with holes, contrivances and deus ex machina. Whilst i'll admit Moffat is excellent at conceiving a premisce for an episode, he is still hilariously bad at execution.
Moffat truly has succeeded in driving the show completely into the gutter of LCD trash. Moffat is also clearly jealous of RTDs work and has used his last act as showrunner to give a pitiful end to the Master.
Honestly the worst hour of television I've watched in a long, long time.
He's proven time and time again he's incapable of writing a plot that isn't filled with riddled with holes, contrivances and deus ex machina. Whilst i'll admit Moffat is excellent at conceiving a premisce for an episode, he is still hilariously bad at execution.
Moffat truly has succeeded in driving the show completely into the gutter of LCD trash. Moffat is also clearly jealous of RTDs work and has used his last act as showrunner to give a pitiful end to the Master.
Honestly the worst hour of television I've watched in a long, long time.
After a few hours to digest it and the two partner, it was...very solid. The thematics in play were good in relation to the Doctor (what he stood for), the Master(s), Bill and the inclusion of the Cybermen really felt organic. The stakes not being 'world ending' but a few civilians was nice for a finale. I feel showing a Regeneration fakeout in the Monks closer, the Regeneration fakeout at the start of last week, the Regeneration energy burning throughout this week's episode and the actual Regeneration but not at the end was too OTT, but conceptually I get it.
I just can't help shake a feeling of unsatisfaction overall and I really genuinely can't place it or describe it. Then again my favourite Nu Who closer is Series 1s POTW so what do I know.
Capaldi was a great Doctor and that was a good hour of TV
I just can't help shake a feeling of unsatisfaction overall and I really genuinely can't place it or describe it. Then again my favourite Nu Who closer is Series 1s POTW so what do I know.
Capaldi was a great Doctor and that was a good hour of TV
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Ugh.
Seriously nothing was surprising for you? Man, going by the comments every week, I'd swear some of you guys are intent on being negative just because the name Moffat is attached to it. It's been 7 years and the man is closing off a very impressive piece of work, and I think some of you can lay off the negativity for once.
Personally loved this. Great writing, and that ending for the two Masters is nothing short of perfect. Capaldi knocked it out of the park this week, and loved the plot for this one.
Can't wait for Christmas. First Doctor is going to be madness. Insane how well his lines fitted that version of the character.
It's posts like this that make me want to limit my Who discussions to real life people at times. Ridiculous. Certain people who never got over RTD leaving just can't let go.
Moffat isn't jealous of RTD. They're buddies, they're super complimentary every time they talk about each other. He didn't bring back RTD's Master to stick it to him. That's a very weird conspiracy theory. He got a fantastic ending, one that builds beautifully on decades of building that character.
Sorry for going on, but after an excellent finale an being in a great mood about this show, seeing these same negative reactions again and again every week just tires me out. Maybe I'm getting to old for the online discussion stuff, I fully admit that the problem might be with me. But man, talk about setting out just to hate on something. I know that every episode can't be for everyone, but it gets a bit much given that this has been going on for years with a certain section of the fans.
WadiumArcadium
Member
I doubt I would have expected the Pilot's return if I hadn't read that person's post, but maybe that's just me.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I'm not going to bother arguing with you, as I really don't care about moffat as showrunner anymore, as he's all but gone. I don't care about your misplaced aspersions either.
So, speculating about Christmas, although I guess it's pretty obvious.
The First Doctor is facing his first regeneration and is terrified, and it will force Twelve to comfort him and let him know that things aren't going to be all bad. This will cause Twelve to realize that it's time for him to go as well.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Wow, I'm surprised everyone seems to be so positive. After last week's episode I found this very disappointing.
Reminded me very much of Matt Smith's last episode, in that both felt overwrought and bloated with not a lot actually going on.
And what was achieved in the end?
Big whoop.
And dear god Bill's exit from the show was utter shit, some of the most on your nose deus ex machina I've seen in some time.
The only thing I particularly liked about this episode was the 2 masters that was great.
Reminded me very much of Matt Smith's last episode, in that both felt overwrought and bloated with not a lot actually going on.
And what was achieved in the end?
The cybermen got pushed back.
And dear god Bill's exit from the show was utter shit, some of the most on your nose deus ex machina I've seen in some time.
The only thing I particularly liked about this episode was the 2 masters that was great.
Amen to that. My exact sentiments.
I enjoyed the episode but was it weird that...
I was hoping that Missy would turn into the first doctor. Indicating that the Missy/Master has always been the doctor before the doctor became the doctor. That would have been a hell of a twist with Missy now as the Doctor doing good instead of bad.
I was disappointed that the ending of the last episode was dealt with kind of casually. I thought there was some very sloppy editing and I wonder how bloody long the shooting script was because there were clearly bits that got cut for time.
On the other hand it's probably the best Moffat finale to date, although it's still not perfect. Bringing it back to basics and giving it relatively minor stakes - FINALLY - was a sensible move.
I am excited to see what happens with the Christmas special. It does seem self-indulgent, but so was the 50th and there was plenty to enjoy there.
And to be quite honest while I enjoyed having both Masters I feel John Simm was kind of wasted.
On the other hand it's probably the best Moffat finale to date, although it's still not perfect. Bringing it back to basics and giving it relatively minor stakes - FINALLY - was a sensible move.
I am excited to see what happens with the Christmas special. It does seem self-indulgent, but so was the 50th and there was plenty to enjoy there.
And to be quite honest while I enjoyed having both Masters I feel John Simm was kind of wasted.
I know it was somewhat divisive around here but Time of the Doctor is pretty much my favourite Doctor Who episode out there, I think I've rewatched it about 10 times now. It's one I can just keep going back to.
Anything that channels that episode, and this absolutely did that yes, is a plus to me.
Anything that channels that episode, and this absolutely did that yes, is a plus to me.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
I don't think Missy mentioned Clara once this season for some reason. She made a small dig about his last time with River Song but that's about it.
There's a Doctor Who spin-off show where the Doctor sees her name along with Danny's at the school they worked at. He just gets in his TARDIS and leaves. I'm assuming he does remember her somewhat.
Probably because Moffat realised that even people who liked Clara were kind of glad she left at the end of series 9.
Spectromixer
Member
So does The Doctor think Bill died, or??? And Nardole is stuck on the ship with the survivors.
I kind of liked the finale. They aren't usually the best episodes, but this one was pretty solid. I liked how they handled Bill's situation, sure it could have been better but I really never expected her to die, so what we got was kind of the best possible ending. Also a story with 2 Masters could have been more about, well, having multiple Masters around, but once again it was not something I expected would happen given that it was Capaldi's last episode, so what we got was quite nice.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
I enjoyed it.
I especially enjoyed Capaldi fighting the regeneration in the TARDIS. A lot of nice throwback moments there.
As for the Simm returning, that was a nice throwback and closes the circle on the Master becoming Missy and how the Master and Missy ultimately met their end. The Master had to regenerate into Missy and because Missy had turned over a new leaf, she had to die because The Master would never side with the Doctor. He's rather die than let it happen.
I think it also made the point that a lot of Doctor Who episodes have tried to make - no matter the enemy, no matter how much you fight them, they always come back from another part of the time and space and the Doctor is always buying time because the threat never ends - The Cybermen can be held back, you can run through dilated time from them, but they're always still there.
I especially enjoyed Capaldi fighting the regeneration in the TARDIS. A lot of nice throwback moments there.
As for the Simm returning, that was a nice throwback and closes the circle on the Master becoming Missy and how the Master and Missy ultimately met their end. The Master had to regenerate into Missy and because Missy had turned over a new leaf, she had to die because The Master would never side with the Doctor. He's rather die than let it happen.
I think it also made the point that a lot of Doctor Who episodes have tried to make - no matter the enemy, no matter how much you fight them, they always come back from another part of the time and space and the Doctor is always buying time because the threat never ends - The Cybermen can be held back, you can run through dilated time from them, but they're always still there.
I feel like this was an episode with a lot of great moments but overall it didn't feel as much of a finale for some reason. I guess I'm kind of bored of the Cyberman, much like the Dalek's before them, I don't feel as threatened by them as I should. I guess it doesn't help that the Pilot just Deus Ex'd the biggest consequence of their threat by saving Bill. John Simms was wasted as the Master too, which was a damn shame because it seems he was here for more shock value than any fiendish schemes. Oh yeah the end sort of just happened...
It was though great to see the Master stabs himself in the back to make sure he didn't fight with the Doctor, the two versions crackling between themselves was a perfect end for both incarnations. Likewise the speech the Doctor gave to the Master/Missy about why he does what he does was quality acting from Capaldi and his breakdown by quoting 10th and 11th to stop his regeneration was well done too! Some good moments but not hitting the highs of the first 5 season finales.
It was though great to see the Master stabs himself in the back to make sure he didn't fight with the Doctor, the two versions crackling between themselves was a perfect end for both incarnations. Likewise the speech the Doctor gave to the Master/Missy about why he does what he does was quality acting from Capaldi and his breakdown by quoting 10th and 11th to stop his regeneration was well done too! Some good moments but not hitting the highs of the first 5 season finales.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Doctor probably thinks Bill died. Not aware Missy is dead or that she wanted to stand with him.
Nardole is stuck with the survivors as he said he would.
funkystudent
Member
Overall I was happy with this season. No over arching universe in danger / doctor is gonna die plot, Bill wasnt THE MOST SPECIAL PERSON EVER!!! like Clara and Amy. Sucks she got the same "you died but not really but yeah you died" ending that every other Moffat companion has gotten tho.
I dont think there was a bad episode in the bunch. Some middle of the road stuff for sure but nothing bad.
I hope the new showrunner does well. The show totally needs a fresh direction. Moffat kinda never really gelled in the role IMO. He was always a good writer on a per episode basis but he sucked at the big picture stuff and just reused the same ideas season after season.
I dont think there was a bad episode in the bunch. Some middle of the road stuff for sure but nothing bad.
I hope the new showrunner does well. The show totally needs a fresh direction. Moffat kinda never really gelled in the role IMO. He was always a good writer on a per episode basis but he sucked at the big picture stuff and just reused the same ideas season after season.
My wife and I weren't too into it. We both didn't like Bill whole season, didn't like what they did with her, and didn't like the cock tease to xmas special. I mean I get it, he generally regenerates on a Xmas special episode it is what it is.
Peter is great, but the writing he has been subjected to for his run has been really rough compared to what Matt Smith got to act out.
Peter is great, but the writing he has been subjected to for his run has been really rough compared to what Matt Smith got to act out.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
They wanted rid of him as much as he wanted to leave. They basically said that in the episode.
The Doctor was fighting the regeneration, we literally saw him wake up, freak out and then go outside. I'll give you that if he doesn't register it in the Christmas special though.He pals around with The Master because they were childhood friends and he always felt he could redeem him. It's a character flaw the Doctor holds when it comes to the Master.
Beaniedude
Member
He stuck the landing!
I thought it was incredibly well done. Loved the acting by Capaldi. I'm going to miss him.
I did think him quickly hacking into the computer at the beginning was hilariously done but it did what was needed to be done
I thought it was incredibly well done. Loved the acting by Capaldi. I'm going to miss him.
I did think him quickly hacking into the computer at the beginning was hilariously done but it did what was needed to be done
Throwing him back into the universe yelling "Fuck. You deal with him" seemed like a very Time Lord Bureaucracy thing for them to do.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Fuck Moffat forever.
This matches Hurndall and Guilor as the lowest moments in the history of the TV series.
You can't replace Hartnell. And having a cheap imposter claiming to be "the original"? Yeah, cause that wasn't a terrible idea in 1983, right? It's still a fucking terrible idea now.
So this is how Moffat chooses to end his time on Doctor Who? By taking a dump on the original Doctor? Nice job.
This matches Hurndall and Guilor as the lowest moments in the history of the TV series.
You can't replace Hartnell. And having a cheap imposter claiming to be "the original"? Yeah, cause that wasn't a terrible idea in 1983, right? It's still a fucking terrible idea now.
So this is how Moffat chooses to end his time on Doctor Who? By taking a dump on the original Doctor? Nice job.
I really liked Capaldi in this episode, especially his scene trying to convince the Masters to stand with him, I really felt like I could feel the Doctor's desire to have the Missy/Master do good and stand with him.
As far as Bill and Nardole goes, I really hope that isn't how things are left with them, especially Nardole (Being stuck on a ship looking after people?). Do we know if either of them are coming back yet?
As far as Bill and Nardole goes, I really hope that isn't how things are left with them, especially Nardole (Being stuck on a ship looking after people?). Do we know if either of them are coming back yet?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
So... I guess this is a divisive episode. lol
Did they say who the new doctor was?
Did they say who the new doctor was?
David Bradley did a great job in An Adventure in Space and Time and I'm sure he'll do a great job in the Christmas episode.
I always thought it was supposed to be old age. "Wearing a bit thin," and all that.
Nope.
That's the assumption, but there was never anything official. Some fan theories had the energy drain from Mondas factoring in, and so on.
DangerMouse
Member
Yeah Capaldi did a great job whenever he finally got some good stuff, the feels always sneak up on you in these last season finales. As has been said, some great throw back moments during the bit where he's fighting the regeneration at the end.
Also yeah, his speech to Missy and the Master was great as was them shooting each other in the back. Missy was great again. I'm surprised the Doctor didn't see it to tease him to continue to try, not that he wouldn't anyway.
haha yeah
Agreed. Yeah, Nardole had some great moments again this ep, I hope he comes back so they can get him out of this and don't just leave him like that.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
He looks and sounds nothing like Hartnell, and that scene with him at the end of the episode was dreadful.
And beyond that, you can't recast Hartnell. It's just not something that can be done. They've tried multiple times, and every time has been a disaster.
What's next? Will they team up with a recast Brigadier, Sarah Jane, Barbara, Ben, Katarina, Harry and Liz at Christmas to stop Mavic Chen, the Delgado Master, the Kate O'Mara Rani and Lytton?
MHWilliams
Member
Eventually?
Yes.
The show began in 1963. It'll probably continue on. They will recast some of these characters in small roles eventually. It's probably better if you come to terms with that now rather than 5, 10 years down the line. It's like trying to fight reboots.
APZonerunner
Member
The main thing is that I think Bradley is a convincing Hartnell (As AISAT shows) but not necessarily a convincing first doctor? Which is a weird thing to say, but there it is.
Huh, wasn't that Hurt's last line before regenerating too?
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