I think one of the main things that pissed me off this season is that almost the entire thing was a bunch of two-parters that had no business being two parts. Then you have the most interesting episode of the season (the one before Clara's death) that ends on an ambiguous note. THAT deserved a second part, not the Zygon Invasion or the GoT chick's episode.
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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons
- Thread starter Quick
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And just like that, all my hope that this would be the first Christmas special Moffat has nailed since series 5 has vanished.
uhm ... yay?
I'm in a similar situation except I don't hate it, I just don't care anymore. I kinda liked the first two episodes of this season, Michelle Gomez is good but then I forgot about it and suddenly the season's almost over.
I read Clara died, so I watched it and ... meh, that's all I have to say. I feel nothing, I honestly couldn't care less if she comes back or not.
I'll watch the christmas special because I still like River (despite Moffat doing his best to make me dislike her) but after that I'm not sure if I'll be back.
sobaka770
Banned
All I'm saying that it's weird to mention a person's full name in this context with non-chalant delivery. Especially if the two people were close.
If we are to believe that Clara was affected by his death (this whole becominh more reckless line), then she definitely couldn't have forgotten him. My idea is that if she just said "Danny", the writers were scared we wouldn't remember who that was, because his character was just so forgettable.
More River in Christian special? While I loved her first introduction in the library, the more I keep seeing her, the more this relationship and her character become absurd. Once again she ends up being this superhuman character who is not very relatable and her "wife" relationship with the Doctor is not different from being a companion, whom she should've been instead. There was no reason for Doctor to love her really.
Bit of a cock-up on the referencing front.
Yep. It's gonna be awesome.
bishopcruz
Member
Sword of Orion is rather average. I liked it a lot more on first listen as I was still fairly new to Who. Just a warning, Stones of Venice is great. Minuet in Hell is pretty bad, but if you like Brig and cheesy as hell stories that make no sense, it's listenable some people LOVE it though. I think there is a list of all of them in the thread I linked.
The second year of the Eighth Doctor main range is pretty much amazing through and through. And up through Zagraues they are really cheap.
The short answer is that she can only rescind her own kill orders
infiniteloop
Member
Ashildr made a deal with the shade to be able to remove it from Rigsy.
Clara and Rigsy made their own deal which didn't involve Ashildr, hence Ashildr could not remove it.
He did, this time it's RTD's fault!
Zeouterlimits
Member
The concepts are nice, but the execution looks a bit odd in it, the people look weird.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
That first one is adorable though.
the inevitable break-up no doubt features someone strapped to the hull as an exploding spaceship, because reference. Reading up on that was fun, thanks Bobby!
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I'm a little late the the funeral, just got to the episode.
Ah, a decent enough exit. My only real complaint was the overlong speechifying while the timer counted down.
I really like the rift this causes with Ashildr and the Doctor, and I like the place it puts him. I'm really looking forward to the next two episodes.
Ah, a decent enough exit. My only real complaint was the overlong speechifying while the timer counted down.
I really like the rift this causes with Ashildr and the Doctor, and I like the place it puts him. I'm really looking forward to the next two episodes.
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sobaka770
Banned
Martha was military. She was opinionated. It may not be the best characterisation, but it's something consistent about her. Clara is... pretty?
I think it's unfair, and I'd like to see this ambition with a companion again. Just not derailed by how she was introduced, and then derailed again by her staying. I don't think you'd be seeing these criticisms resurface so much if she'd bowed out as Old Clara.
Face The Raven showed how well she could be written following the template of series 8, and how much it brought to the table with Capaldi having these things to work with.
It's not Clara's fault no one else bothered.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I can't remember, are there 1 or 2 episodes left?
2, then the Christmas special.
It's a shame Rigsy had to settle down to help make this story work in a way.
The fatherly aspect of the Doctor taking him under his wing, and giving the graffiti artist his place and purpose which was there in Flatline, would have been a great angle to go down as a companion.
The fatherly aspect of the Doctor taking him under his wing, and giving the graffiti artist his place and purpose which was there in Flatline, would have been a great angle to go down as a companion.
It'd also create a nice synchronicity with the fact that every full-fledged companion actor from Martha onwards had appeared briefly before they became a companion.
I've a nagging feeling that the last quotes on the subject from Moff have suggested that the next one will be completely new, though. Although things can change.
I wonder if they've cast the next companion yet? Always a possibility we'll see the person who will fill that role in the next two.
So, a friend of mine decided she wanted to start a Doctor Who podcast and invited me to co-host it with her. This prompted me to start NuWho over from Rose last night. Is it weird that I like that episode more when examining it as, for lack of a better word, a critic than I ever did as a fan? It's super well structured even if Autons are, were and always will be kind of stupid enemies. And I still dislike Rose and all of her even more irritating hangers-on.
I really like the kind of jaunty way the Ninth Doctor tries to blow Rose off early on. In a lot of ways, he's just as blunt and rude as the Twelfth Doctor, but he masks it a little with a blatantly faux cheeriness and when that doesn't work, deflects with dumb jokes.
I like that the phrase "The Time War" is never uttered in the first episode. The Doctor mentions more than once that there was a great and terrible war and the tells the Nestine that he tried to save their world, but couldn't save anyone's world. That's really compelling for some reason. I honestly can't remember what I was thinking when I was watching all this when it was new, but I feel like if this was new now, I'd be very intrigued by the breadcrumbs dropped in this episode. It all rolls out at a pretty good pace.
Anyway, yeah. I still don't like the enemies especially or the overall tone struck or any of the supporting chracters, but it's very well structured, very well plotted and despite all my misgivings, if I was watching this without any knowledge about the series, I think it's probably good enough I would've checked out more. Probably.
I really like the kind of jaunty way the Ninth Doctor tries to blow Rose off early on. In a lot of ways, he's just as blunt and rude as the Twelfth Doctor, but he masks it a little with a blatantly faux cheeriness and when that doesn't work, deflects with dumb jokes.
I like that the phrase "The Time War" is never uttered in the first episode. The Doctor mentions more than once that there was a great and terrible war and the tells the Nestine that he tried to save their world, but couldn't save anyone's world. That's really compelling for some reason. I honestly can't remember what I was thinking when I was watching all this when it was new, but I feel like if this was new now, I'd be very intrigued by the breadcrumbs dropped in this episode. It all rolls out at a pretty good pace.
Anyway, yeah. I still don't like the enemies especially or the overall tone struck or any of the supporting chracters, but it's very well structured, very well plotted and despite all my misgivings, if I was watching this without any knowledge about the series, I think it's probably good enough I would've checked out more. Probably.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
This was my second episode of Who ever, after the 50th Ann. special. It definitely hooked me, even if I never really cared about Rose at all.
CrimsonFist
Member
I like how the time war was initially handled. It's gradually built up more and more over the earlier episodes, but we don't really get the full picture until Dalek.
Finished Stones of Venice on the way to work today. @bishopcruz was right, great episode. One thing I adore about old style Who is how the Doctor and his companion get intermingled in and influence events, but are not the sole driving force. Venice is a great 4-way conflict between the Duke, the Duchess, the cult and the underclass that the Doctor kind of dances through offering the occasional prompt. He doesn't come up with a timey-wimey technobabble solution to the death of Venice, but instead just reveals some information he's pieced together. It's up to the players to resolve the situation.
Also, you could never do this episode in 60-minute television format. So many moving parts!
*edit* Trepidatiously anticipating Minuet in Hell on the way home today
Also, you could never do this episode in 60-minute television format. So many moving parts!
*edit* Trepidatiously anticipating Minuet in Hell on the way home today
Stones of Venice is great. Coincidentally, I also listened to this last night (before and after Rose. I kinda forgot I was supposed to bone up for the podcast, so I had to interrupt my 8th Doctor adventure to spend some required time with the 9th.) Just the way the Doctor talks about Venice is so beautiful. The Eighth Doctor has the heart of a poet and it really shows in that story.
One thing it made me think of also is that something that's been missing from the modern show is providing companions with a certain degree of self-motivated drive. Charlie gets embroiled in the whole Duke/Duchess thing because, as they express in the cold open, she has a particular interest in, for lack of a better way of saying it, supporting the proletariat in whatever place she and the Doctor find themselves. That kind of universal philosophical drive in a companion seems like it would be invaluable because it gives writers an in to explain why the companion might wander off as they are wont to do other than the common kidnapping and/or ye olde "distracted by a shiny while the Doctor walks away". Plus, it makes companions seem more like people rather than just an attendant for the Doctor who asks the questions.
Oh and Minuet in Hell is fucking harrowing as I recall. Get ready for that...
It makes me wonder if the show today could even get away with such a gradual reveal. I feel like we've all grown so impatient with the show through all the passing years that if Moffat tried to tease something out like this, we'd all be frothing at the mouth just shouting, "Just explain it to me, already!"
CrimsonFist
Member
http://scifibulletin.com/doctor-who...-peter-capaldi-and-steven-moffat-heaven-sent/
I think most of this was already known, but one point it does confirm is that Moffat was the one to write the speech at the end of the Zygon Inversion, and that was the inspiration for Heaven Sent.
I think most of this was already known, but one point it does confirm is that Moffat was the one to write the speech at the end of the Zygon Inversion, and that was the inspiration for Heaven Sent.
bishopcruz
Member
I probably made it sound worse than it is, it's just really weird, but I like that about Big Finish, they go places that modern Who just won't and generally aren't scared about doing the weird and surreal.
I'm glad you liked stones of Venice, I listened to that one again last year, on a flight FROM Venice. So that was kinda surreal.
The Elite
BOSS
It's the absolute worst. I can't play or pause from anything but the app, which is a big pain in the ass when I need to pause on the fly using my BT headphones.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
No one can escape the evil that is Pingu.
https://twitter.com/DWTODWFA/status/668919167676977156/video/1
https://twitter.com/DWTODWFA/status/668919167676977156/video/1
If I was editing the show or a co-writer or something I would have had Ashildr's plan to be to get the Doctor there etc, but t the same time the way she would remove the curse is by taking it herself. And it was all a scheme to 1. get revenge on the Doctor for making her live this way and 2. She had finally found a way to truly die.
Of course this would have made her character more sinister but I feel they were starting to go with that anyways...
Of course this would have made her character more sinister but I feel they were starting to go with that anyways...
APZonerunner
Member
Ironically I think you can probably apply a lot of this review's comments to the whole of the RTD era, really
Yeah, I re-watched the episodes with the Slitheens yesterday, and it applies as well.
"We're a farting aliens family, and we've come on Earth to fart in the Prime Minister's office".
I thought it would be terrible, but to my great surprise, I was hooked from the beginning to the end.
I laughed just thinking about Capaldi in the same situation as Eccleston.
- Excuse me, do you mind not farting while I'm saving the world ?
- Would you rather silent but deadly ?
This is a real dialog from Doctor Who.
APZonerunner
Member
A funny thing about Rose, Aliens of London & World War Three is that they were directed by a guy who just didn't really 'get' what Doctor Who 2005 was going to be, and a lot of the farting ADR and stuff came from him. He basically thought the tone was going to skew more younger than family. A lot of those episodes play like Sarah Jane Adventures later would but with darker scripts, and that's the mistake, really. Like, the fact the Slitheen had an eggy fart smell as a give away and sometimes made fart noises was indeed in the script, but it was the director who played it a lot more for laughs and added in a lot of additional farting after the fact in the edit. You can see this in Boom Town, later, where one is played with that stuff toned right back. A lot of people think that's because of a backlash to AOL/WW3, but Boom Town was in the can long before those episodes aired; it was just delivered closer to how it was scripted.
Same sort of thing for, say, when Mickey is 'eaten' by the bin in 'Rose' - the way that's scripted, if you read the script, is for it to be relatively harrowing/nasty, it's meant to be scary for kids. But the director shot it in a relatively flat way, directed Clarke to play it slapstick (there's also Mickey dancing for no reason in the opening montage; you might notice the portrayal of Mickey later on and then in Series 2 is very different and more grounded) and even added the bin burping, which was not a scripted moment at all. Direction can do a lot to a script.
That Director is also the one who had screaming rows on set with Eccleston and all that, so, welp, yeah. He's the only one from Series 1 who never ever returned to the show, as well. RTD later expressed regret on a DVD commentary he hadn't spoken up more about the amount of the farting and the way it was being played, but obviously it was their very first edits and everybody was finding their footing.
I still actually think on paper Aliens of London/World War Three is the best 'Earth Invasion' story they've done since 2005. Incredibly tight scripts - the execution is just lacking.
Well now I know who to blame at least
That's interesting, I didn't know about this stuff. It throws a different light on the first season (though I've always liked it, and I love Eccleston in the role). Damn this director
As Ophelion said, I think the first season still holds up, the episodes are very well paced and they deliver just enough information about the Doctor to intrigue viewers and give him a mysterious aura in spite of all the goofyness.
I would have loved to see Eccleston come back for the 50th anniversary, but it seems he had his reasons.
There's a recent interview in which Moffat talks about the nightmare that was the preparation of the 50th anniversary episode. Some "fans" are just psychos... I can't imagine the amount of stress he must have gone through.
More here
tonysidaway
Member
I assume she's supposed to look like Debbie Harry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_Lines
The reference is a bit obscure, though. I only remember the third Blondie album because I'm ancient. As an album it's a classic with some of the best pop writing of the era, though I confess I have always found the huge hit single, Heart of Glass, so dull as to be unworthy to stand with the rest of Blondie's work. They're still among my favourite groups.
tonysidaway
Member
It's wonderful to hear how the War Doctor emerged from the hurly burly of assembling a script and a cast. John Hurt's involvement in the anniversary episode, and his interaction with Billie as The Moment, will probably always be one of my favourite parts of Doctor Who.