avatar quote?didn't really care for it ¯\_(ツ_/¯
This episode was right on the mark as far as Who goes, I thought.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons
- Thread starter Quick
- Start date
This episode was right on the mark as far as Who goes, I thought.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Ah yea she just said it. Cheers!
I actually really liked the episode except for the end resolution a bit. One question I did have is why the word "Mercy" would surprise the Doctor? The implication is that it is because he went back in time and gave mercy to Davros, but then wouldn't that mean that in the current timeline "Mercy" would have always been in their vocabulary since it is implied Davros input it ever since he began building the Daleks? Thus, if it was always in their vocabulary the Doctor shouldn't have been surprised?
Don't you dare reply with "Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey".
Don't you dare reply with "Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey".
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
It's a fixed event in time. The Doctor always went back at that point when he realized it was the only thing that would resolve the situation. It's Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey bullshit that the science in Dr. Who always comes down to. I mean Gridlock isn't a shit episode because a woman's able to have a "littler" with a cat furry despite that making no sense and being gross. It's a shit episode because it revolves around giant crabs, stupid traffic jams and a bullshit "I die for magic shit" resolution.
In addition to that, we already know the Daleks are aware of concepts like "pity" from "Dalek", back in 2005 (and probably a bunch of other episodes I'm forgetting). The Daleks aren't idiots, they don't need to personally believe in what a word means in order to know the actual word.
Rimon-hanit
Member
Listening to Davros right now and you aren't kidding, I can see moffat using it for reference.
Also happy to see you post again I remember some of your threads back when I lurked.
I love you. That episode is trash and it blows my mind when people praise it.
Future Foundation
Member
Yeah, that's how I think it goes. No one was around when River had the showdown with the Dalek, so the Doctor didn't see/hear it.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Ditto. I'm a fan if RTD era on general, but that one's horrible.
...
I did really like this episode. About halfway in I was starting to tire of the Doctor / Davros stuff, thinking it would not pay off. The betrayal really paid off that part of the plot.
Best for me not to think about the finer details, because they don't make that much sense, I am sure. But it was a pretty fun ride.
ClivePwned
Member
yeah, this (great) episode ignores a hell of a lot of continuity, even of Moffat's own episodes.
Steven Moffat does an excellent impersonation of a great writer who has never watched a single episode of Doctor Who.
Steven Moffat does an excellent impersonation of a great writer who has never watched a single episode of Doctor Who.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
That was bad. Just really poorly executed.
I'm glad that Moffat came up with the wonderful idea to have a hybrid Dalek race and have Clara turning into a Dalek. Really groundbreaking stuff there.
All the Doctor/Davros scenes just dragged on and on forever, and then turned into constant "Aha, you fell for my trap" "Ohoho, but that was actually my trap" nonsense.
Beyond that, why with this insistence that there has to be some terrible secret behind the Doctor leaving Gallifrey? I wish Moffat would just fuck off with this nonsense. The Doctor's life doesn't need to be a constant run of secrets and prophecies and horrific revelations. The Doctor fled from Gallifrey and rebelled against their customs because he was bored by the existence there and hated the stuffy bureaucracy and their bullshit "non-interference" policy when terrible shit was happening in the universe. There's an elegant simplicity to it, but that's enough for Moffat.
Why can't we just leave the past alone? Here's the Doctor. He goes on adventures. Stop with the turning the Doctor into some mythological, godlike figure who always has to have some dark secret waiting at every turn.
I'm glad that Moffat came up with the wonderful idea to have a hybrid Dalek race and have Clara turning into a Dalek. Really groundbreaking stuff there.
All the Doctor/Davros scenes just dragged on and on forever, and then turned into constant "Aha, you fell for my trap" "Ohoho, but that was actually my trap" nonsense.
Beyond that, why with this insistence that there has to be some terrible secret behind the Doctor leaving Gallifrey? I wish Moffat would just fuck off with this nonsense. The Doctor's life doesn't need to be a constant run of secrets and prophecies and horrific revelations. The Doctor fled from Gallifrey and rebelled against their customs because he was bored by the existence there and hated the stuffy bureaucracy and their bullshit "non-interference" policy when terrible shit was happening in the universe. There's an elegant simplicity to it, but that's enough for Moffat.
Why can't we just leave the past alone? Here's the Doctor. He goes on adventures. Stop with the turning the Doctor into some mythological, godlike figure who always has to have some dark secret waiting at every turn.
It's been a while since I've seen that episode, but didn't she sound like a Dalek when the Doctor was with her in person, but over the computer systems she sounded like Clara? Maybe the ship allowed her to use full vocabulary?
Good ep. The Doctor/Davros exchanges were again the best part, particularly some of the dialogue. "So many backs -- with just one knife."
Yes, mercy was always part of the Daleks' vocabulary because the Doctor saved young Davros. From Davros' perspective, that happened a long time ago; from the Doctor's perspective he just hadn't done it yet.
Yes, mercy was always part of the Daleks' vocabulary because the Doctor saved young Davros. From Davros' perspective, that happened a long time ago; from the Doctor's perspective he just hadn't done it yet.
SigmasonicX
Member
So, Davros' entire plan was undone solely because he forgot about the Dalek graveyard and thus screwed himself over? Did I miss something about it? Because if not, then that is really dumb.
It was annoying to have all these hints about a greater reason for the Doctor leaving Gallifrey. Him getting bored is a perfectly fine reason, and if anything, it's more poetic that such an important being would have a humble beginning like that.
That said, the scenes of Missy and Clara interacting were great, besides Clara being oddly fine with being around her. The scenes of the Doctor and Davros "getting along" were also good, though I was glad that Davros was fooling him in the end.
It was annoying to have all these hints about a greater reason for the Doctor leaving Gallifrey. Him getting bored is a perfectly fine reason, and if anything, it's more poetic that such an important being would have a humble beginning like that.
That said, the scenes of Missy and Clara interacting were great, besides Clara being oddly fine with being around her. The scenes of the Doctor and Davros "getting along" were also good, though I was glad that Davros was fooling him in the end.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
If you've bailed, stay bailed. Some things aren't worth sitting through. There are flawed shows, even mediocre shows, that I'd suggest people watch all the way through because the endings at least sorta/kinda mean something, and provide some semblance of satisfaction as an ending to what came before.
Miracle Day is just shit through and through. Nothing redeeming at all.
The Elite
BOSS
I think it was just waking up and expanding. I am not sure it was actively trying to do anything in. It was kind of weird.
Huh...
So it doesn't get better -- at least Children of Earth was dope.
Future Foundation
Member
Oh, that's an understatement.
Children of Earth was the shit though. I usually don't do the "ignore this season of this show/pretend the series ended after season [blank]" but fuck Miracle Day is that kind of season.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Judging from some of the posts I assume I don't need to bother with Torchwood?
I thought all the Davros scenes were great-much better than his "IT WAS ME ALL ALONG! THIS IS MY FINAL VICTORY!" Stuff from season 4.
I also thought the final scene with the Doctor teaching mercy was great. That said I think the entire "Clara in a Dalek" plot was silly and didn't pay off well-it was nonsense and looked silly. The sewer stuff as well. Just didn't make sense or come across as well thought out on screen.
As much as I love Missy, in retrospect she wa really just along for the ride here. But I bet we'll see her and her pet Daleks in the finale.
I also thought the final scene with the Doctor teaching mercy was great. That said I think the entire "Clara in a Dalek" plot was silly and didn't pay off well-it was nonsense and looked silly. The sewer stuff as well. Just didn't make sense or come across as well thought out on screen.
As much as I love Missy, in retrospect she wa really just along for the ride here. But I bet we'll see her and her pet Daleks in the finale.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Alright, season 3 has taken my love for this show from a 8 to a fucking 9.5. And the reason is soooo small and almost insignificant to many people but to me is just...fucking badass.
That is all
That is all
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Torchwood is like all the worst impulses of X-Files and Buffy turned up to 11 and made into a TV show tangentially linked to Doctor Who.
The back half of Season Two it becomes its own legitimately entertaining (and oddly touching) thing.
Children of Earth might be the single best thing Russell T. Davies has ever done, and is one of the best bits of televised sci-fi ever, I think.
Never watch Miracle Day.
edit: OH, also, I liked this episode quite a bit, although it didn't QUITE come together the way I think Moffat wanted it to. Juuuust discordant enough for it to not stick as hard as it could have, because there were some really, really good bits in it. It definitely, for me, made up for the deficiencies in the first episode (for the most part) and I really, REALLY loved both Davros and Missy's performances. Someone else called it upthread, but I also came away from the episode feeling like this Missy had more than a little in common with Alex MacQueen's Master from Dark Eyes.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
To expand on this:
Miracle Day has Bill Paxton as a child molester who becomes one of the team in the final few episodes. As he's sacrificing himself for The Greater Good, he starts screaming to his dead victims that they need to run faster, because he's coming for them.
I have no problems with a show wanting to explore the concept of people living with ghoulish impulses, but this character was introduced going to the electric chair, and was very clearly meant to be a metaphor for religion being a sham.
StopMakingSense
Member
Season 3 (Children of Earth) is one of the very best modern Who-universe stories. Always makes me long for a longer multi-episode Who arc.
Also the season revolves around one Mr. Peter Capaldi.
Oh god I forgot about Bill Pullman's character.
And honestly, the way they wrote Miracle Day, the only way to go forward would have to be a reset of everything. They made the mistake of ratcheting the stakes WAY to high on that.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Children of Earth is amazingly fucking dark, and Capaldi has one of the darkest fucking resolutions of any of the characters storylines.
Just a side note - That's gonna happen a lot. DW has a history of using actors in minor roles then bringing them back later on for bigger parts. Karen Gillian and Peter Capaldi are both in Episode 2 of Season 4, for example. Colin Baker was a Gallifreyan Guard before he became the Sixth Doctor. I know there are others in the modern series, but I can't think of them right now. Some of them get plot references, and some of them get glossed over.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and Capaldi was also in Torchwood. Duh.
I get that it's a fixed point in time. I stated that in my post. What I had a problem with was the Doctor being surprised at Clara's Dalek being able to say "Mercy" when they should've been able to say "Mercy" this entire time since the Doctor taught young Davros that.
As I said above, what doesn't make sense is the Doctor being surprised at "Mercy" when technically it was always part of their vocabulary. Moffat!!!!
Honestly, the whole scene with Clara in the Dalek and the Doctor facing her was just bad writing. The Doctor suddenly not being intimidating or mocking to a Dalek, the Doctor being freaked out about the Dalek saying "Mercy". This scene almost brought down the rest of the episode for me, but the rest was so excellent I managed to forgive it. Plus, Missy saved that scene a bit.
I...am never watching Miracle Day. What.
StopMakingSense
Member
There's like 5 actors in England, so they gotta recycle from time to time.
that sounds so lame but now I kind of want to watch it for Bill Paxton.
I only watched some Torchwood here and there and I remember seeing some special? What is the one where Capt Jack gets
encased in concrete
StopMakingSense
Member
That's Children of Earth
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Children of Earth.
Spoilers for what is causing humanity's immortality:
It's literally a giant vagina running straight down the Earth.
StopMakingSense
Member
The resolution of it is so dumb and lame and such a terrible waste of such a huge global cataclysm
ancient alien rock vagina what
Bill Paxton and giant vaginas?
You are doing a really bad job of trying to get people to not watch this
this sounds troll 2 good
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Pullman, not Paxton.
StopMakingSense
Member
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Totally wastes Lauren Ambrose, too.
StopMakingSense
Member
And Nana Visitor.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Speaking of "No! It was really MY trap!" scenes....
Jack and his team get to the giant vagina, only for the bad guys to go "Fools! To shut it down, you'd also need to be on the other side of the world to feed it Jack's special viagra blood!".
So then Jack goes "I expected this, so I transfused some of my blood into another member of my team and sent him to the other side!".
Really, Jack? You expected a giant vagina in the middle of the planet that could only be closed by your blood at both locations at the same time?
EDIT:
Yes, to save the world, Captain Jack Harkness has sex with it.
didn't she play the bajoran lady on DS9?
what a weird cast
edit: now i am conflicted.. bill paxton is a definite watch for me, like harry dean stanton or lance henriksen.. so I was excited to watch this but then I learned it's pullman.. so meh.. but then I learn of a giant space vagina that needs to be fucked by capt jack to save the world and now I am back on board.
it sounds so fucking bad it's probably amazing
GodParticle
Member
I believe martha mentions her being a cousin at some point
Edit: Was in the her first episode. From a wiki:
"She also recalls the loss of her cousin Adeola who "worked at Canary Wharf" and disappeared, a reference to the "Army of Ghosts" character played by the same actress."
Err...nm, looks like it was answered already heh
StopMakingSense
Member
Also, looking it up, I forgot John de Lancie was in it as well.