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[twobear]

Hang on. So Davros' plan backfired because the goop Daleks rose up from underneath the city and sludged all the proper Daleks, right?

So what about all of these dudes?

Seen floating up into the air moments after the Supreme declared the experiment a success. Can the goop Daleks fly?

probably not but it would be nice to get away from the 'daleks pose an existential threat to the universe -> all the daleks die -> somehow three survived' pattern of nuwho and just say 'it was a disaster but some of them survived'

 

[Masquerader]

I thought the CGI was fine in both episodes besides the snakes which were pretty bad. What would Doctor Who be without the occasional bad special effect shot?

Yeah, but even so, the general quality has gone down gradually.

... Perhaps it may seem like a weird thing to say, but the Dalek lasers just piss me off a lot. They just don't seem like they can kill when they miss.

Oh, and the sunglasses suck. The Sonic Screwdriver sucks too, but at least it sucks, yet we've all accepted it as part of the norm. The sunglasses don't have that longstanding nostalgia factor that the screwdriver does.

... I'm just disappointed, is all. Could've been a truly great episode, but a good deal of it broke immersion for me pointlessly. Just my opinion, though. I can see that most people liked it!

 

[water_wendi]

There could've been many awesome storylines growing out of the Clarlek thing. The Doctor actually killing her. The Doctor just escaping and her staying on the planet trying to be discovered and not losing her personality. Missy taking the Clarlek with her and taunting the Doctor with her own personal Dalek.

Not to mention a weird romance fanfic between a Cyberman Danny and Dalek Clara.

Yeah. i really liked the episode but i wish the show as a whole were more daring.

 

[twobear]

They've been roomy for years:

That one you have to blame on RTD.

actually, ian hides inside a dalek shell in the daleks, the first tv story involving the daleks. so that was actually kind of a callback to their first appearance.

 

[Quick Mustard]

Early ratings for The Witch's Familiar are at 3.7 Million, which lets be honest, given it was up against an England vs Wales World Cup Rugby game is nothing to worry about.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/doctor-who/news/a670694/uk-tv-ratings-doctor-who-falls-to-37-million-as-rugby-world-cup-dominates-with-84-million.html#~ppuaQ23xGVx1es

 

[Exterminieren]

I was actually expecting worse ratings than that, honestly. Couple that with 7 day timeshift, iPlayer and the ratings for today's omnibus repeat, and it's not really something to be worried about.

The scheduling and overall marketing of the show needs an all-over rethink after this season, but I think we might have bottomed out here.

 

[Quick Mustard]

I was actually expecting worse ratings than that, honestly. Couple that with 7 day timeshift, iPlayer and the ratings for today's omnibus repeat, and it's not really something to be worried about.

The scheduling and overall marketing of the show needs an all-over rethink after this season, but I think we might have bottomed out here.

Aye, considering next weeks is at 8:25pm, it seems to be all over the place yet again.
I wish they'd just focus on one time slot and stick to it.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Dalek sewers...Christ. Next time The Doctor will use their own stairmaster against them.

 

[Exterminieren]

Aye, considering next weeks is at 8:25pm, it seems to be all over the place yet again.
I wish they'd just focus on one time slot and stick to it.

Ah, but they can't at this time of year. The biggest problem with Who being on in the Autumn isn't the Rugby, or even The X Factor. It's Strictly Come Dancing.

As a live show, Strictly has very rigid timeslot requirements. The Saturday show is broadcast live, and the Sunday results show is then recorded immediately afterwards ready for showing the next day. This means that the Saturday show can't start recording too late- if they're not starting until around 8, then it's going to be pushing midnight before they're finished recording everything, and that would bring up a whole host of financial and logistical problems. As a result, Doctor Who can't feasibly air before it, and it's forced into a later timeslot which varies as the number of Strictly dancers decreases, and which is invariably opposite ITV's big shows, be it X Factor or the Rugby or whatever.

It's one reason of many why moving Who to the autumn is a tremendously bad idea, that should be rectified at the first available opportunity for the good of the show.

 

[Quick Mustard]

Ah, but they can't at this time of year. The biggest problem with Who being on in the Autumn isn't the Rugby, or even The X Factor. It's Strictly Come Dancing.

As a live show, Strictly has very rigid timeslot requirements. The Saturday show is broadcast live, and the Sunday results show is then recorded immediately afterwards ready for showing the next day. This means that the Saturday show can't start recording too late- if they're not starting until around 8, then it's going to be pushing midnight before they're finished recording everything, and that would bring up a whole host of financial and logistical problems. As a result, Doctor Who can't feasibly air before it, and it's forced into a later timeslot which varies as the number of Strictly dancers decreases, and which is invariably opposite ITV's big shows, be it X Factor or the Rugby or whatever.

It's one reason of many why moving Who to the autumn is a tremendously bad idea, that should be rectified at the first available opportunity for the good of the show.

Ah yea, that makes sense.
I miss the spring time slots, it was so much more consistent.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

There could've been many awesome storylines growing out of the Clarlek thing. The Doctor actually killing her. The Doctor just escaping and her staying on the planet trying to be discovered and not losing her personality. Missy taking the Clarlek with her and taunting the Doctor with her own personal Dalek.

Not to mention a weird romance fanfic between a Cyberman Danny and Dalek Clara.

Moffat retroactively made it so The Doctor wasn't even responsible for the Time War ending, there's no way he'd let The Doctor accidentally kill a companion.

 

[Chariot]

Moffat retroactively made it so The Doctor wasn't even responsible for the Time War ending, there's no way he'd let The Doctor accidentally kill a companion.

Pity. That would something he would've really have to work with. I mean, it's perfect. Technically not his fault since he was misled, and yet he killed his companion thanks to just immense hatred of Dalek.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Pity. That would something he would've really have to work with. I mean, it's perfect. Technically not his fault since he was misled, and yet he killed his companion thanks to just immense hatred of Dalek.

It'd be dark, but I'd have liked that as Clara's exit, more than Old Lady Oswald in the Christmas ep. And again, nice throwback to the 11th essentially abandoning Oswin to the same fate in Asylum.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Pity. That would something he would've really have to work with. I mean, it's perfect. Technically not his fault since he was misled, and yet he killed his companion thanks to just immense hatred of Dalek.

This only problem with it would be that it would make working with Missy just about impossible.

Technically Missy did the same actions here, but the Doctor doesn't have the guilt driving him.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

This only problem with it would be that it would make working with Missy just about impossible.

Technically Missy did the same actions here, but the Doctor doesn't have the guilt driving him.

Missy's done worse in the past right?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Missy's done worse in the past right?

Overall, sure. But make the Doctor kill a loved one? That's not going to pass.

 

[Chariot]

It'd be dark, but I'd have liked that as Clara's exit, more than Old Lady Oswald in the Christmas ep. And again, nice throwback to the 11th essentially abandoning Oswin to the same fate in Asylum.

I wonder how long she will keep being here. She is already a companion for a while, so many oppurtunities of ejecting her missed.

This only problem with it would be that it would make working with Missy just about impossible.

Technically Missy did the same actions here, but the Doctor doesn't have the guilt driving him.

Well, you could've made an story arc, starting with the Doctor not know that he killed Clara and Missy "assisting" him in finding a trail of Clara, thereby stumbling into other adventures on the way culminating into the Dcotor realizing that Missy is leading him on a while goose chase and then... that he killed Clara episodes ago. Would also work with just leaving her on Skarro. They just had to change Missy telling the Doctor that she was killed to her just vanishing. It would've made a good setup for Missy as a brief companion and a lead for the season where the Doctor is searching for both Gallifrey and Clara, where he thinks about the infinite possibilities of Clara vanishing randomly. The Doctor would rather chase some convoluted theory than accepting that she just died on a planet with Daleks and the Master.

 

[Dryk]

So, Davros' entire plan was undone solely because he forgot about the Dalek graveyard and thus screwed himself over? Did I miss something about it? Because if not, then that is really dumb.

The Doctor's entire plan this episode was "Fall into Davros' trap on purpose because his plan is shit and will fail"

Worst bit: the 'half Dalek/half Timelord' idea was really pointless seeing as it ended up going nowhere. Just Occam's razor that shit and say that the Daleks were just reviving normally.

Davros' entire plan made no sense. Absorbing Time Lordness makes Daleks more powerful how? They draw all of their strength from their travel machines. Not only that but regeneration energy causes hybridisation instead of healing why? Time Lord prophecy what?

 

[APZonerunner]

RE ratings, really expected to be bad against the rugby, but hopefully we get an earth-moving time shift. Is 3.7 a new all time low?

 

[water_wendi]

I wonder how long she will keep being here. She is already a companion for a while, so many oppurtunities of ejecting her missed.

Well, you could've made an story arc, starting with the Doctor not know that he killed Clara and Missy "assisting" him in finding a trail of Clara, thereby stumbling into other adventures on the way culminating into the Dcotor realizing that Missy is leading him on a while goose chase and then... that he killed Clara episodes ago. Would also work with just leaving her on Skarro. They just had to change Missy telling the Doctor that she was killed to her just vanishing. It would've made a good setup for Missy as a brief companion and a lead for the season where the Doctor is searching for both Gallifrey and Clara, where he thinks about the infinite possibilities of Clara vanishing randomly. The Doctor would rather chase some convoluted theory than accepting that she just died on a planet with Daleks and the Master.

Thats the biggest problem with the episode.. just disappointment. It was a good one to be sure but there were a bunch of opportunities to really take things into interesting directions that were never explored. And i guess that the TV show of the Doctor Who universe will never do anything bold or daring like that.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I honestly thought that accidentally killing/causing the death of a companion was what the War Doctor would be so reviled/forgotten for.

 

[Exterminieren]

RE ratings, really expected to be bad against the rugby, but hopefully we get an earth-moving time shift. Is 3.7 a new all time low?

For the modern series, yeah.

I'm very interested to see how this omnibus repeat this afternoon rates. The BBC were pushing it really hard last night.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I wonder how long she will keep being here. She is already a companion for a while, so many oppurtunities of ejecting her missed.

Well, you could've made an story arc, starting with the Doctor not know that he killed Clara and Missy "assisting" him in finding a trail of Clara, thereby stumbling into other adventures on the way culminating into the Dcotor realizing that Missy is leading him on a while goose chase and then... that he killed Clara episodes ago. Would also work with just leaving her on Skarro. They just had to change Missy telling the Doctor that she was killed to her just vanishing. It would've made a good setup for Missy as a brief companion and a lead for the season where the Doctor is searching for both Gallifrey and Clara, where he thinks about the infinite possibilities of Clara vanishing randomly. The Doctor would rather chase some convoluted theory than accepting that she just died on a planet with Daleks and the Master.

That is impressively dark!

 

[Kathian]

For the modern series, yeah.

I'm very interested to see how this omnibus repeat this afternoon rates. The BBC were pushing it really hard last night.

Pretty sure its an all time low. Including classic.

 

[Boem]

Regarding companion deaths, it only happened a handful of time in the (television) series:

Katarina in Dalek's Master Plan, after she got sucked out of an airlock:

Sarah Kingdom after she gets aged to death by a Dalek time bomb in that same story (debatable if she counts as a companion, she was only in one story. On the other hand, it was the longest story of the show's history):

And Adric of course, a death nobody in the world was sad about:

That's not counting 'companions' that were only there for one story (as I said, Sarah Kingdom is debatable), and Amy and Rory, who, although we've seen their grave, lived a full life after their life with the Doctor.

It's not unheard of, but I don't think a companion dying is the most interesting way for a companion to leave, or for a story to end. I don't think you can equate it to the Time War though - if the Doctor would have done that he would have consciously committed genocide against his own people, and I agree with Moffat that that doesn't fit the character at all. I'm not saying Clara won't die, but I personally don't think of it as taking the easy route if they don't let her die.

Edit: I should maybe also add Peri. When you watch it it's obvious the original intention was for her character to die (also confirmed by the actress, who favored that idea), but in the end they copped out and stitched some old footage together to make it look like she survived and married Brian Blessed. Truly a fate worse than death.

Also it made no sense for her character.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

You forgot Kamelion, who died in Planet of Fire.

 

[Boem]

You forgot Kamelion, who died in Planet of Fire.

Oh yeah. Well, I mean, a couple of K9's died over the course of the series as well, but they're just computers you know.

But you're right, he should be remembered. Somehow I love that poorly conceived, easily forgotten, gimmicky guy.

I loved that they had a picture of him on that Unit board in Day of the Doctor. Someone cared.

 

[Symphonia]

I was going to suggest that Rose being locked in the alternate dimension is on par with death, but then I remembered she somehow managed to work out a way to get back to help Donna and the Doctor.

 

[mightynine]

As much as I like Missy, I really hope they don't overuse her this season. I felt - just a smidge - that I had enough of her for a while by the end of the two-parter.

 

[hamchan]

As much as I like Missy, I really hope they don't overuse her this season. I felt - just a smidge - that I had enough of her for a while by the end of the two-parter.

She's gonna get River Songed.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

She's gonna get River Songed.

Actually her vs. River Song might actually make the latter interesting again.

Like School Reunion, but with more murder.

 

[dead souls]

She's gonna get River Songed.

So true. Anyone who can't see that coming is kidding themselves.

 

[Exterminieren]

Pretty sure its an all time low. Including classic.

Nah, it regularly got this low towards the end- I'm pretty sure episode 1 of Battlefield's the lowest rating episode of the lot, at nearly a million less than this one.

Funnily enough, that one was heavily dinged by coming up against live sport too.

With a timeshift at the top end of what Doctor Who can do, which is entirely possible given last night's competition, this might not even be modern Doctor Who's lowest final rating- a particularly impressive performance could see it challenging The Satan Pit's 6.08 million.

 

[Chezzymann]

I hope they dont switch doctors next season cause of the low ratings, capaldi is fantastic

 

[takriel]

I hope they dont switch doctors next season cause of the low ratings, capaldi is fantastic

Capaldi isn't the problem. I'd like the series to go somewhat darker, it would fit his doctor.

 

[Ashodin]

Honestly the prophecy thing is not what happened in the episode, such a big thing wouldn't be this simple regeneration. It's something else that will be touched on later I think.

 

[GulAtiCa]

I liked this episode. Loved seeing Clara as a Dalek again.

 

[bishopcruz]

Capaldi isn't the problem. I'd like the series to go somewhat darker, it would fit his doctor.

Yeah, Capaldi himself is great, but I still don't have a concrete feel for him as a Doctor despite a full season with him. This last episode I think did a good job of characterizing him. I think a lot of it has to do with the writing last season, its like they say they want to go dark but don't know how to do it.

 

[Boem]

Capaldi isn't the problem. I'd like the series to go somewhat darker, it would fit his doctor.

I don't really know what people mean when they say they want the show to be 'darker'. Not a criticism or anything, just genuinely curious. I mean, last series had one of the regular characters suddenly dying due to a car accident (and one of the main character's trying to progress that, even having to perform some sort of post-death euthanasia on him), the 'don't cremate me' lines, the dead rising in the form of cybermen, lots of other characters horrifically dying in episodes like Into the Dalek, Timeheist (sort of), Mummy and Flatline, and a lot of moody/scary scenes in episodes like Listen, parts of Kill the Moon, and the Alien-inspired segments of the Christmas episode. And that's just what I could think of of the top of my head.

This one was more of a spectacular fanpleasing opening, but it still had the Doctor just talking to a dying, crazed dictator who made a race of space nazi's about whether or not he should kill a kid a lot of the time.

Sure, there are lighter episodes, but as a television series that's still primarily aimed at children I don't think they could go much darker - unless I don't really understand how you mean that word. A lot of messed up shit goes on in this show when you think about it (and kids do, a lot more than us. Never forget that it's always a lot more real to them than to us). Sometimes it might even go over the line - I think the 'don't cremate me' line was definitely too much for this show.

I also can't really think of a moment in the show's history where it was more violent or scary than it is now. They're definitely looking at the Tom Baker/Hinchcliff-episodes lately as an inspiration, and that was always the farthest the classic show went with that. And the comedy has always been there for every Doctor, even in the scarier episodes. Even Doctors that are often seen as more 'stern' (1 and 3 for example) are much more silly characters than they often get credit for.

I do think Big Finish and the older novels were able to go for a slightly older audience though. I'm personally not super familiar with those though.

 

[twobear]

also like, didn't oswin delete the memory of the doctor from the daleks' memory banks at some point? did they already address that?

 

[Chariot]

also like, didn't oswin delete the memory of the doctor from the daleks' memory banks at some point? did they already address that?

They got the knowledge of him back when they harvested the memories of the Papal Mainframe.

 

[Blader]

As much as I like Missy, I really hope they don't overuse her this season. I felt - just a smidge - that I had enough of her for a while by the end of the two-parter.

I agree. Love Michelle Gomez in the role but making Missy into a companion would be a great way of overexposing and ruining Missy.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

You forgot Kamelion, who died in Planet of Fire.

To be fair, so did JNT. :/

 

[Zomba13]

If nothing else, now I'm curious to see if they could do a Doctor-lite episode which focusses on Missy. I think she could carry one.

I would love a Missy episode that focusses on the average Master/Mistress adventure. Like the Doctor stumbles onto a planet, something happens, he helps, the end. But like, Missy stumbles onto a planet, stirs shit for the hell of it, kills a few people, then prances off. I think it'd be super interesting to see what that character does without the Doctor involved.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

The fact that there is so much room in a Dalek shell is quite frankly ridiculous, but not quite as silly as the convenient seat inside.

YO WHY ARE THE DALEKS GIVING A FUCK ABOUT DAVROS

Respect for their "father" was a defect that Davros couldn't engineer out of their DNA.... which was explained in the episode.

 

[Chariot]

I would love a Missy episode that focusses on the average Master/Mistress adventure. Like the Doctor stumbles onto a planet, something happens, he helps, the end. But like, Missy stumbles onto a planet, stirs shit for the hell of it, kills a few people, then prances off. I think it'd be super interesting to see what that character does without the Doctor involved.

Let her also have companions that die every few minutes and mirror all major companions of the Doctor. Maybe only New Who before it get's too crowded.

 

[hamchan]

If The Doctor knew Davros' real plan all along why did he even go along with it and give him extra life when he could have just stayed away and let the guy die naturally.

 

[Boem]

I would love a Missy episode that focusses on the average Master/Mistress adventure. Like the Doctor stumbles onto a planet, something happens, he helps, the end. But like, Missy stumbles onto a planet, stirs shit for the hell of it, kills a few people, then prances off. I think it'd be super interesting to see what that character does without the Doctor involved.

I was talking about an idea like this with some friends in the pub a while back (yes I'm a geek irl too, busted). We were talking about the rumor that we'll get a couple of specials next year instead of a full series, and we were brainstorming some cool ideas for that.

Let's say you have 4 episodes spread throughout the year. All standalone adventures (maybe companion-less, just like in Tennant's specials) but with an overarching plot - think Key to Time or Trial of a Timelord. Fill up the rest of the year with 'Tales from the Whoniverse'-specials that tie in loosely to whatever quest the Doctor is on. A Missy show (bonus point for making it multi-master, although the best one is dead), a Unit-show, a Paternoster-show for the audience that would normally get Sarah Jane Adventures. a tv movie focusing on Davros' backstory (based on the Big Finish version), etc. Get extra crazy and throw an episode in there where Capaldi shows up to tell stories about his past, and have short stories featuring classic Doctors.

Of course that won't solve the issue at all and they would end up having to make just as many episodes, but we had fun living in that fantasy for a bit.

Respect for their "father" was a defect that Davros couldn't engineer out of their DNA.... which was explained in the episode.

That's new though - in the past the Daleks have always shown no respect or mercy at all for Davros. They always just wanted to kill him as well because he was not a Dalek himself, and therefore an enemy of the Daleks.

Of course, Davros was lying about a lot of things this episode, and the Daleks have kept him around in the past a couple of times because they could use his science for their own gain (after which they would try to kill him anyway). Could be the case again here. Or Moffat rewrote it to fit his story. Whatever explanation pleases the watcher the most I suppose.

 

[Veelk]

Respect for their "father" was a defect that Davros couldn't engineer out of their DNA.... which was explained in the episode.

It was explained, but it's a very odd thing to not be able to remove. Patricide is common enough, and you try finding a teenager without parental resentment issues.

 

[Chariot]

Let's also not forget that Davros had an energy shield. He probably had a lot more stuff to defend himself from his children. They might as well just left him be and help them becoming stronger.