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[paradox121]

Nah, it regularly got this low towards the end- I'm pretty sure episode 1 of Battlefield's the lowest rating episode of the lot, at nearly a million less than this one.

Funnily enough, that one was heavily dinged by coming up against live sport too.

With a timeshift at the top end of what Doctor Who can do, which is entirely possible given last night's competition, this might not even be modern Doctor Who's lowest final rating- a particularly impressive performance could see it challenging The Satan Pit's 6.08 million.

Which says a lot about the state of modern TV when you consider Satan Pit had 5.5m on overnights and only timeshifted an extra 500k. Nowadays it shifts a good 2 million.

But generally speaking comparing ratings is always odd to me. The ratings are stinky this season, but the shows also fighting against the worst possible circumstances: up against rugby or X Factor, unusually nice weather, no new Doctor or companion. I'm more interested to know if this will force the BBC to do an overhaul in front of the cameras or behind. Like you said, it desperately needs to go back to the Spring, probably once Moffats gone.

 

[R_thanatos]

Missy was good

Clara actions doesn't make sense in this episode. She wants to rebel but she doesn't take the initiative AT ALL in this episode .. and even when she should have the initiative to continue the trick missy started , she totally fell appart to the point that missy has to invent yet another bullshit escuse.
Also shouldn't the alert in the sewers has identified that clara oswald was in the sewers ?

And what happenned to the snake guyu ?

it was an ok episode but i'm not that really fullfilled

 

[MrBadger]

Not sure what I thought of that episode. Missy was great, everything else was weird and disjointed.

She's gonna get River Songed.

One of the most irritating things about River was how they thought we gave a crap about who she was and her inclusion in a story would ensure that the story is exclusively about her. There's no big, dumb, complex, dumb, timey wimey, dumb overarching storyline about Missy.

I wonder how long the character will stick around, though. Being the Master, she'll have to die and regenerate at some point.

 

[Razmos]

It is going to be a sad, sad day when Michelle Gomez leaves the show eventually

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Respect for their "father" was a defect that Davros couldn't engineer out of their DNA.... which was explained in the episode.

Which doesn't make a lick of sense.

They killed Davros in his very first appearance. The Daleks have never had any great respect for Davros.

 

[MrBadger]

Respect for their "father" was a defect that Davros couldn't engineer out of their DNA.... which was explained in the episode.

Must just be these specific Daleks. The last time we saw Davros, the Daleks (that he grew from his own body) were keeping him in a basement as a pet and blamed him the second stuff started to go wrong

 

[takriel]

I don't really know what people mean when they say they want the show to be 'darker'. Not a criticism or anything, just genuinely curious. I mean, last series had one of the regular characters suddenly dying due to a car accident (and one of the main character's trying to progress that, even having to perform some sort of post-death euthanasia on him), the 'don't cremate me' lines, the dead rising in the form of cybermen, lots of other characters horrifically dying in episodes like Into the Dalek, Timeheist (sort of), Mummy and Flatline, and a lot of moody/scary scenes in episodes like Listen, parts of Kill the Moon, and the Alien-inspired segments of the Christmas episode. And that's just what I could think of of the top of my head.

This one was more of a spectacular fanpleasing opening, but it still had the Doctor just talking to a dying, crazed dictator who made a race of space nazi's about whether or not he should kill a kid a lot of the time.

Sure, there are lighter episodes, but as a television series that's still primarily aimed at children I don't think they could go much darker - unless I don't really understand how you mean that word. A lot of messed up shit goes on in this show when you think about it (and kids do, a lot more than us. Never forget that it's always a lot more real to them than to us). Sometimes it might even go over the line - I think the 'don't cremate me' line was definitely too much for this show.

I also can't really think of a moment in the show's history where it was more violent or scary than it is now. They're definitely looking at the Tom Baker/Hinchcliff-episodes lately as an inspiration, and that was always the farthest the classic show went with that. And the comedy has always been there for every Doctor, even in the scarier episodes. Even Doctors that are often seen as more 'stern' (1 and 3 for example) are much more silly characters than they often get credit for.

I do think Big Finish and the older novels were able to go for a slightly older audience though. I'm personally not super familiar with those though.

You're totally right, it's not easy to describe how the show could become "darker". What I meant by it is that most of the time you know that an apparent significant death is not permanent (Missy last season, Clara and Missy this season). Furthermore, you know that the Doctor will always find a way to save the day, be it like the last episode where he already knew what was happening or he just comes up with something to save everyone.

What I'd like to see is the Doctor actually failing in a meaningful way. Right now there's always some sort of "safety net" in the show that prevents any radical departures. There's no pressure really, because you know that the Doctor is sort of untouchable.

Do you know what I mean?

 

[Shiggy]

If The Doctor knew Davros' real plan all along why did he even go along with it and give him extra life when he could have just stayed away and let the guy die naturally.

Trying to make sense of Doctor Who? Impossible.

 

[Boem]

I'm sure we'll see Missy again before Capaldi leaves. It wouldn't even surprise me if they'd go for the Moriarty-like face off for his final episode, like they had planned for Pertwee and Delgado but couldn't do because Delgado passed away.

I doubt we'll get another repeat of Delgado in terms of quantity though. Even though he was brilliant, the fact that he was back for every single story for a significant part of Pertwee's run is one of the most well-known and agreed upon criticism of that era. That got rather silly at a certain point, when Delgado would walk out of the shadows as if it was some sort of big reveal. Of course it was the Master - he was behind the last 7 disasters as well.

 

[Ashodin]

Trying to make sense of Doctor Who? Impossible.

compassion. Letting Davros live a little longer gives the Doctor time to see if he can ever make him repent/redeem.

 

[Boem]

You're totally right, it's not easy to describe how the show could become "darker". What I meant by it is that most of the time you know that an apparent significant death is not permanent (Missy last season, Clara and Missy this season). Furthermore, you know that the Doctor will always find a way to save the day, be it like the last episode where he already knew what was happening or he just comes up with something to save everyone.

What I'd like to see is the Doctor actually failing in a meaningful way. Right now there's always some sort of "safety net" in the show that prevents any radical departures. There's no pressure really, because you know that the Doctor is sort of untouchable.

Do you know what I mean?

I can see that. It's not an easy problem to solve though - you'll get that with any long running series. We can be pretty sure James Bond will survive the next movie, or that most of the superheroes in whatever the next Marvel movie will be will stick around.

But I get what you're saying. Perhaps a solution would be to have this episode end with Davros and the Daleks winning (so skipping all the 'sewers are revolting' nonsense), and having the Doctor's victory just be that he got away with Clara.

Or another approach, which I noticed now that I'm rewatching Tom Baker - there's a big difference between the early Tom Baker stories and the later ones, because towards the end he stopped caring about the show and started phoning it in a bit. But some of those earlier series weren't afraid of showing the Doctor being genuinely scared of whatever terror they faced. That worked really well, and we rarely see the Doctor being scared. He knows he can beat almost anything that comes into his path. Him failing a couple of times could work.

 

[zeemumu]

I was waiting for Davros to do some kind of soul swap when he told the Doctor to look into his eyes. I wish that Davros hadn't heel-turned at the last minute like he did. It would have been interesting to have one of the Doctor's oldest enemies be like "we're done here."

 

[mclem]

I was going to suggest that Rose being locked in the alternate dimension is on par with death, but then I remembered she somehow managed to work out a way to get back to help Donna and the Doctor.

Well, on which note, is Martha the only modern full-fledged companion to depart from the Doctor on her own terms? That seemed rather more common in the past, too.

 

[Quick]

I was going to suggest that Rose being locked in the alternate dimension is on par with death, but then I remembered she somehow managed to work out a way to get back to help Donna and the Doctor.

What bothered me a little about Journey's End is that she HAD to go back to the parallel universe, while Mickey gets to go back to the other side again.

It's been some time since I saw the episode, but I don't think there were any constraints with Mickey coming back, while Rose and his family were considered officially deceased and would've caused some issues if they were found alive again. I'd assume they would've done the same with Mickey. I guess no one really cared about him. lol

 

[Dr Zhivago]

RTD said in his book that he was going to have a technobabble reason why Rose has to return, but then he remembered he'd promised Noel Clarke that Micky could come back to the prime universe (even though nothing ever came off that).

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

RTD said in his book that he was going to have a technobabble reason why Rose has to return, but then he remembered he'd promised Noel Clarke that Micky could come back to the prime universe (even though nothing ever came off that).

At the time, Mickey and Martha were both planned to be in Children of Earth, which them walking off with Jack at the end of Journey's End was supposed to set up.

They only wound up being written out when Agyeman and Clarke both wound up getting new jobs offered to them very close to when Children of Earth was set to start filming.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I like a lot of this episode, but I will say this: I'm beginning to fear, after two episodes, that they're making a misstep with Capaldi. The guitar/tank goofiness, the sunglasses - he's a bit different to last year, essentially a bit more Tennant/Smith-ish - I assume a reaction to some of the negative words on his attitude from some fans and press, especially in the UK where some papers pegged it to the ratings slump & said he was too old and grumpy - but I'm starting to get the feel (admittedly only two episodes in) that it's diluting some of what made him so fresh and magnificent last year. When he was allowed his darkness in these stories he really shone, and I hope he's allowed to fester in that more in the coming weeks.

PS: I'm really hoping this 'what did you really flee Gallifrey for/confession dial' isn't this year's 'arc'. Can we have an arc again that isn't all specifically about the universe revolving around the Doctor? Every year -- his prison, his death, his death again but now with a secret -- and then anything with the Master is always about 'them' ultimately; S3 was too. I yearn for something disconnected from him like planets disappearing from space that he stumbles into again.

Well now you've terrified me with the possibility that both of those two things are at play.

 

[Platy]

"Time Lady, thank you. Some of us can afford the upgrade."

Second "doctor can't regenarate into a time lady" quote of the season =(

If The Doctor knew Davros' real plan all along why did he even go along with it and give him extra life when he could have just stayed away and let the guy die naturally.

Compassion theory asside, it looks like this way he "killed" way more daleks if he didn't do anything

 

[Ozium]

Adric is not dead.

#believe

Maisie Williams to play Adric confirmed.

 

[Boem]

I like a lot of this episode, but I will say this: I'm beginning to fear, after two episodes, that they're making a misstep with Capaldi. The guitar/tank goofiness, the sunglasses - he's a bit different to last year, essentially a bit more Tennant/Smith-ish - I assume a reaction to some of the negative words on his attitude from some fans and press, especially in the UK where some papers pegged it to the ratings slump & said he was too old and grumpy - but I'm starting to get the feel (admittedly only two episodes in) that it's diluting some of what made him so fresh and magnificent last year. When he was allowed his darkness in these stories he really shone, and I hope he's allowed to fester in that more in the coming weeks.

PS: I'm really hoping this 'what did you really flee Gallifrey for/confession dial' isn't this year's 'arc'. Can we have an arc again that isn't all specifically about the universe revolving around the Doctor? Every year -- his prison, his death, his death again but now with a secret -- and then anything with the Master is always about 'them' ultimately; S3 was too. I yearn for something disconnected from him like planets disappearing from space that he stumbles into again.

As for your first point: they have definitely softened him, it's not just this story. At least, that's what they keep mentioning in interviews. Could be, in part, a response to the critics, but I honestly believe that was always the plan. Hartnell went through the same development, as did Pertwee, and Colin Baker if they had given him the chance (which is what they did with Big Finish, I think). It remains to be seen how much he has changed as this was kind of a weird story, what with the Doctor mostly talking to Davros all the time. Next week should be a more 'regular' adventure, making it easier to judge. I personally don't think it's a mistake to soften him, although I hope there's still enough room for his impatience with human social sensibilities (or whatever you want to call it). I mean, even though he was friendly to that Bors guy in the prequel, he kept explaining to him that he was an idiot at the same time. I see your point though, we'll see how the rest of the season goes.

I agree with your second point. I get that a lot of modern tv shows/movies do this, but there's something rather charming about the Doctor being an outsider, just a traveler who stumbles upon things. The confession dial will probably come back (as, probably, those suicide moons mentioned in the scene in the Shadow Proclamation in ep 1). I doubt Missy/Davros will be back this season, but at least Missy will show up before we're done with Capaldi. She may or may not have struck a deal with the Daleks for that. I doubt Moffat even knows at this point. I don't think that matters. I also hope they'll have a completely new enemy for the finale. We know that he can beat Daleks and Cybermen at this point.

Anyway, excited for the next story. As much as I enjoyed this, my favorite stories tend to be the ones that aren't about the larger mythology of the show - just random adventures. It's always a lottery - could be crap, could be fun - but I'm happy to find out. I'm going out of the country for a couple of weeks for work starting tomorrow so I won't be able to use the internet much (outside of work things), so I'll experience the next set of episodes without knowing anything about the response from the internet. Should be fun to see if I my opinions are going to vary a lot from what the rest of the world thinks.

 

[Kurdel]

So glad I didn't have the

Spoiler

sonic sunglasses

spoiled, got legit chills holy shit that was incredible.

 

[malfcn]

Just read that Corey Taylor (of Slipknot), has lent vocal talent to the show.

details here.

 

[The Elite]

So glad I didn't have the

Spoiler

sonic sunglasses

spoiled, got legit chills holy shit that was incredible.

I guess they cater to someone.

 

[tonysidaway]

Missy stories are special. She works in much the same way, and for the same reasons, as River Song.

I think somebody mentioned Mark Sheppard. I'd like to see him come back, please.

One thing I especially loved about the daleks in this story was the variety. I like it when you get the Hammer Films look, and the Special Weapons design, mixed with the New Who gold look. I didn't notice any of the new BMW-style daleks introduced in the Spitfires/Jammy Dodger episode, though.

The introduction of senescent dalek ooze was a good example of the kind of storymaking that might lead nowhere or could create whole new branches of dalek history.

 

[The Technomancer]

I guess I start have to grading these episodes on a curve, because all of my bitching won't solve the problems that are seemingly endemic to the modern series. So, if we set aside the fact that the episode has all kinds of annoying structural and tonal and thematic problems that I can't stand...

meh, its still not very good? The drama between the Doctor and Davros just wasn't compelling

 

[Kurdel]

Davros asking the Doctor about compassion was basically this scene:

I guess they cater to someone.

I do see it wearing thin pretty quick, especially at cons, but it fits the rock n' roll Doctor.

 

[Dalek]

Davros asking the Doctor about compassion was basically this scene:

Man that is so good. That image says so much about the Ninth Doctor.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Very mixed feelings.

The opening episode was super strong, Might be the best opener of new who honestly.

Davros and The master in a 2 parter sounds like the perfect episode on paper.

I felt really let down by series 2. Missy was great as always and the chat between The Doctor and Davros was outstanding but everything else was nonsense and not in the fun doctor who way in the Moffat has no fucking clue and just throws things he thinks are cool together without consideration.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I do see it wearing thin pretty quick, especially at cons, but it fits the rock n' roll Doctor.

That's not who the Doctor was last season, though.

I'm really nervous that they're going to start going all Matt Smith again and try to make the Doctor be "cool".

 

[Kevin]

The episode was solid and yet the ratings continue to drop fast. 3.7 million in the UK. Why is the show doing so bad this year compared to previous seasons? Such a massive drop in just a single year is extremely weird to me.

 

[Kurdel]

That's not who the Doctor was last season, though.

I'm really nervous that they're going to start going all Matt Smith again and try to make the Doctor be "cool".

I really loved the asshole/slightly autistic Doctor from the 8th season. Keeping him uptight alien would have been nice, but I am excited to see a more relaxed and carefree Doctor in the 9th season.

Season 8 was about Clara slapping his hauty ass and telling him he is better than anyone else, and it took a full season for him to remember he was an idiot in a box. It's just a shame his character arc for the season wasn't more gradual/natural.

 

[MrBadger]

By the way, is anybody else getting increasingly reminded of Curse of the Fatal Death? We've had the Master fall into the sewers as well as having a failed alliance with the Daleks. Then you've got the Daleks having chairs for no reason as well as that whole "well I saw through your plan!" "well I saw through you seeing through my plan!" stuff. It's all leading to the season finale where Capaldi regenerates into Rowan Atkinson

The episode was solid and yet the ratings continue to drop fast. 3.7 million in the UK. Why is the show doing so bad this year compared to previous seasons? Such a massive drop in just a single year is extremely weird to me.

Something about rugby? That and it doesn't have the intrigue of a new Doctor, which always pulls in more views.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

The episode was solid and yet the ratings continue to drop fast. 3.7 million in the UK. Why is the show doing so bad this year compared to previous seasons? Such a massive drop in just a single year is extremely weird to me.

It is because the BBC put up against other big draws, like the X factor (or whatever other bullshit show was on at the time) and the rugby world cup. I figure they do it because the show is their international cash cow and domestic ratings are largely meaningless to them.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

The episode was solid and yet the ratings continue to drop fast. 3.7 million in the UK. Why is the show doing so bad this year compared to previous seasons? Such a massive drop in just a single year is extremely weird to me.

Good lord, wasn't it around 8 million during Tennant's run?

 

[Kevin]

Good lord, wasn't it around 8 million during Tennant's run?

The ratings were MUCH better during Tennant's run:

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/jan/04/david-tennant-doctor-who

 

[hamchan]

The episode was solid and yet the ratings continue to drop fast. 3.7 million in the UK. Why is the show doing so bad this year compared to previous seasons? Such a massive drop in just a single year is extremely weird to me.

Rugby. It'll be just as bad next week since it'll be England vs Australia at the same time as Doctor Who.

 

[Bluth54]

It is because the BBC put up against other big draws, like the X factor (or whatever other bullshit show was on at the time) and the rugby world cup. I figure they do it because the show is their international cash cow and domestic ratings are largely meaningless to them.

Also the live viewing figures for Doctor Who (and live viewing figures for British TV in general) have been trending downwards, while the DVR viewing figures and iplayer figures have been trending upwards. There's a shift in the way people are watching TV.

 

[Ozium]

Rugby. It'll be just as bad next week since it'll be England vs Australia at the same time as Doctor Who.

it's airing later in the evening next week

 

[Bluth54]

Here are the average ratings for the all the seasons from Doctor Who since it came back (got this from a poster in the Gallifrey Base ratings thread).

As you see the overnight ratings continue to decline but overall Doctor Who's ratings are fairly consistent since people are watching the show other ways. You can also view the ratings for individual episodes on this site.

Series 9 may end up with slightly lower ratings then the previous series but when you factor in timeshift and iplayer it's not going to be much different. Since BBC doesn't run ads overnight ratings are not as important as an American network.


(All figures rounded up to 2 decimal places. 'Live+7' ratings created from genuine figures prior to their invention purely for comparison.)

Overnight Ratings Average
Series 1 - 7.3 million
Series 2 - 7.18 million
Series 3 - 7.04 million
Series 4 - 7.2 million
Series 5 - 5.98 million
Series 6 - 5.73 million
Series 7 - 5.52 million
Series 8 - 5.16 million

Time Shift Average
Series 1 - 0.64 million
Series 2 - 0.52 million
Series 3 - 0.51 million
Series 4 - 0.85 million
Series 5 - 1.59 million
Series 6 - 1.78 million
Series 7 - 1.9 million
Series 8 - 2.12 million

Final Ratings Average
Series 1 - 7.93 million
Series 2 - 7.71 million
Series 3 - 7.55 million
Series 4 - 8.05 million
Series 5 - 7.65 million
Series 6 - 7.51 million
Series 7 - 7.42 million
Series 8 - 7.28 million

Week 1 Repeats & iPlayer Average [iPlayer launched Dec 2007, so Series 4 onwards only]
Series 1 - 0.75 million
Series 2 - 0.98 million
Series 3 - 1.35 million
Series 4 - 1.62 million
Series 5 - 1.08 million
Series 6 - 0.83 million
Series 7 - 1.11 million
Series 8 - 1.03 million

Live+7 Ratings Average [Unofficial figures until Series 7]
Series 1 - 8.68 million
Series 2 - 8.69 million
Series 3 - 8.89 million
Series 4 - 9.66 million
Series 5 - 8.66 million
Series 6 - 8.35 million
Series 7 - 8.39 million
Series 8 - 8.31 million

 

[infiniteloop]

did we get 7 day ratings for ep1 today?

looks like 6.7

 

[Coffee Dog]

Missy is an incredibly one note character and it kind of annoys me how much screen time she's getting.

Oh, she's a crazy murderer, and she's rude/murderous to the characters surrounding her. Yawn.

Edit: I also really hope they aren't trying to make 12 more likeable and fun with the Sonic Shades and whatnot. He was fantastic last season because he was allowed to be something other than that.

 

[LycanXIII]

Just read that Corey Taylor (of Slipknot), has lent vocal talent to the show.

details here.

The insider added; “They gave them a VIP tour and asked if Corey wanted to record his famous scream. He agreed instantly and was made up about it.”

FYI: Fisher King – Fisher Kind is a green hulk of a creature with horns protruding from his body, appears next Saturday.

He is played by the tallest Brit, 7ft 7 Neil Fingleton and his speaking voice is Shaun of the Dead’s Peter Serafinowicz.

So it's just his scream. I was hoping it would be an actual speaking role.

 

[zeemumu]

Man that is so good. That image says so much about the Ninth Doctor.

It's funny because the 10th Doctor considers the 9th to be a monster since he's post-war doctor.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

It's funny because the 10th Doctor considers the 9th to be a monster since he's post-war doctor.

Is this a non-show thing?

 

[APZonerunner]

It's funny because the 10th Doctor considers the 9th to be a monster since he's post-war doctor.

Is this a non-show thing?

There's the lines to Rose about him being bitter, hurt, born in blood and battle, and Rose is the person who 'made him better' - they also explain that as why the Metacrisis Doctor commits genocide on the Daleks, and the Doctor uses that as a case for why Rose should go with him. So it is in the show, sort of.

Day of the Doctor sort of adjusts all of this, I guess, or at least adjusts how a viewer can see it all.

The initial thinking was that the 9th Doctor was grinning, gurning, laughing, and acting silly to cover up the deep sorrow and fear, and you glimpse it raw a few times in Dalek and Bad Wolf and stuff. The point is really that the Doctor does actually build the genocide machine and intends to use it but then backs out, presumably because of his guilt/grief, where 10 wouldn't have built a machine that'd also kill everyone on earth or even considered it in the first place.

 

[infiniteloop]

Final rating is 6.54 million, which is awful.

http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2015/09/the-magicians-apprentice-official-rating.html

 

[mclem]

He is played by the tallest Brit, 7ft 7 Neil Fingleton and his speaking voice is Shaun of the Dead’s Peter Serafinowicz.

It amuses me that it goes for Shaun of the Dead as the cultural touchstone when Serafinowicz had a voice acting role in some other tiny film as well.

He did more in Shaun, mind.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

The episode was solid and yet the ratings continue to drop fast. 3.7 million in the UK. Why is the show doing so bad this year compared to previous seasons? Such a massive drop in just a single year is extremely weird to me.

I can only speak personally, but I've been at breaking point with Doctor Who for a while and can't really take much more of it.
It's one of those shows I just kept compulsively watching despite so little good episodes.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

I was keen on it up until the end

Tardis destroyed? NOOO it's security system just allows it to fragment!

No sonic screwdriver? Good thing I had these sonic sunglasses THE WHOLE TIME.

I prefer a clever Doctor to one that just pulls solutions straight out of his ass.

 

[zeemumu]

I can only speak personally, but I've been at breaking point with Doctor Who for a while and can't really take much more of it.
It's one of those shows I just kept compulsively watching despite so little good episodes.

I keep up but I almost never watch the episodes when they premiere.

I was keen on it up until the end

Tardis destroyed? NOOO it's security system just allows it to fragment!

No sonic screwdriver? Good thing I had these sonic sunglasses THE WHOLE TIME.

I prefer a clever Doctor to one that just pulls solutions straight out of his ass.

I feel like he's always pulled solutions out of his ass. It's just that most of the time those solutions were science.