Exterminieren
Banned
Fucking Strictly, man.
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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons
- Thread starter Quick
- Start date
Fucking Strictly, man.
APZonerunner
Member
He probably couldn't, but the whole point of the war-tortured 9th/10th Doctor is that he wouldn't. He can't do it in Series 1 ("Coward, any day.") - Rose ends up doing it. In Series 2 his plan involves sucking them into the void, which would just strand them, not kill them. In Series 3 he actually approaches Sec and offers him help, but Sec runs away (and the others are killed not by him, but by their own hybrid slaves). The whole point in Series 4 is that the one that pops out of Donna is less inhibited by the horrors of the war and acts more like he did in the war, essentially committing genocide. Even his failed plan with the DNA gun for Davros is violent, as that's another plan to kill them all.
He might be a hypocrite for it, but he believes that, I think. If the 'normal' Doctor had access to the TARDIS and everything, he'd probably find another way. But he didn't. So it is what it is.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Will be nice to just have a story where The Doctor stumbles into trouble and solves a problem again.
The writer for tonight's episode is Toby Whithouse, who previously did 'Greeks Bearing Gifts' for Torchwood, as well as 'School Reunion', 'Vampires of Venice', 'The God Complex' and 'A Town Called Mercy' for Doctor Who. He's writing next week's episode as well. So while that's definitely a series of what you would call 'standard'* Doctor Who, there aren't any actually bad episodes on that list (although I don't really remember enough about Torchwood to recall which episode was that one). I'm personally pretty fond of Vampires of Venice myself, and God Complex is a cracker as well. The other two aren't bad either actually.
The director is Daniel O'Hara, who hasn't worked on Who before but he did work on Being Human and Silent Witness (and, for RTD-fans, Wizards & Aliens). I actually watched some of those first two shows but I can't tell you if his episodes specifically looked good or not, as I wasn't really paying attention to his name at the time.
* please note that I don't think 'standard' Doctor Who is by definition bad Doctor Who - just mentioned that to say what kind of story we can expect. Like the poster above me said, sometimes that kind of story is just fine.
The director is Daniel O'Hara, who hasn't worked on Who before but he did work on Being Human and Silent Witness (and, for RTD-fans, Wizards & Aliens). I actually watched some of those first two shows but I can't tell you if his episodes specifically looked good or not, as I wasn't really paying attention to his name at the time.
* please note that I don't think 'standard' Doctor Who is by definition bad Doctor Who - just mentioned that to say what kind of story we can expect. Like the poster above me said, sometimes that kind of story is just fine.
ClivePwned
Member
I really loved School Reunion and Vampires of Venice, but hated, absolutely hated, God Complex and Town Called Mercy. But, Whithouse also did The Game, which I absolutely loved- he managed to make a new version of Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy mixed with Callan, without all the over-the-top retconning that goes on so many BBC period shows. He'd be my pick for taking over from Grand Moffat Tarkin.
Dr Zhivago
Member
Of all the things Moffat has done, can we agree that moving the show to autumn was a terrible idea?
I don't think that was Moffat's call really.
But yeah, having to watch a couple of minutes of Strictly before every new ep is torture. At least they're not doing that show with the giant robot rabbit or the celebrities doing gymnastics before Who anymore.
Short introduction to tonight's episode (light spoilers for people who want to go in blind): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLjfzOmRKgs
Props to Capaldi for referencing two Throughton monsters. Although the Macra weren't underwater creatures exactly, but I'll allow it.
FortuneFaded
Member
You really think that the creators of shows have any impact on when it is played?
BBC splitting series 7 over two years was pretty awful.
The BBC is in charge, but executives (if they are good executives) have to take into account the interests of a lot of different people and parties, including the creators/producers. I doubt they just hand over the contracts without any sort of discussion or negotiation. It may even have been the producers' idea to move it into the autumn in the first place and BBC liked it. Who knows?
RTD's book The Writer's Tale delves a little bit into the producing side of things (and a lot into his writing), it's a great read.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
DW always used to signal the coming of Summer!
Moffat might not have chosen the move to autumn, but I would argue he's definitely a worse producer than RTD was - hence why Who has gone through a number of production delays (series 6 being split in two, series 9 taking longer for fewer episodes) during his tenure.
Then again, he also had to deal with BBC budget cuts, so YMMV.
Then again, he also had to deal with BBC budget cuts, so YMMV.
Moff doesn't have anyone like Gardner who'll fight for the show. RTD was very, very lucky in how good the team around him was.
I don't think it's fair to put that on Moffat though - the problems with the BBC and NewWho started a couple of years back, and the effects on Who were noticeable before Moffat got the job. RTD was the first to have a gap year for example,with just 4 specials for Tennant (edit: 5, forgot that the last one was a two-parter). Moffat is making a show for a version of the BBC that's very different compared to most of RTD's run, so until we get that a 'Writer's Tale' for the Moffat years I don't think it's fair to call him a worse producer. After all, it was Moffat who was able to make the show a lot more successful and mainstream abroad and especially in the US. And that's in a world were there's a lot more competition in the well-produced scifi/fantasy-section of tv, compared to 2005.
Also it's important to remember that it was never 'just' Moffat or RTD running the show - they are more known to us because they were the lead writers at the same time, so they usually get all of the praise/blame. EDIT: What Deathyboy said.
tonysidaway
Member
Oh I liked that one. That's exactly the kind of SF that seldom makes it beyond the printed page into TV or film. Torchwood was very good in that respect. I'd suggest Black Mirror occupies a similar niche.
Not resolving a cliffhanger isn't the same thing as resolving a cliffhanger poorly.
And I would say the beginning of Journey's End is the worst asspull cliffhanger resolution that either of them has written (Last of the Time Lords, coincidentally another RTD-penned finale, being the second worst).
forgeforsaken
Member
Lately I've sort of been finding myself hoping that the Randomizer gets stuck, or even that the Doctor loses Tardis access for a bit like 3. There's just been too much Timey Wimey shenanigans.
Well, you have a point in that they both go for the type of scifi that you normally wouldn't see on screen, and that they're both not afraid of going very bleak, but the main difference is that Black Mirror is simply written a lot better (which is of course nothing more than a matter of personal taste, so I won't try to debate you on that), but mostly that Black Mirror isn't trying to fit into the world of Doctor Who. I'm all for tonally different spinoffs, but a sex cloud just goes way too far for a show like Doctor Who in my opinion - even if it is advertised as 'for adults'. I can't take the idea seriously that, when I watch a Hartnell episode, there's a sex cloud floating around on Mars in that same universe. I think there's a difference between exploring where the limits of a certain fictional universe are and going as far as possible into the extreme without any regard for the world and tone that has been established for 50 years. Even in a world as fluid as Doctor Who. It feels like dropping a rapper in a WWII fighter plane in the world of Tolkien.
And, again, I don't think it was written particularly well. You can talk about sex and rape in certain, careful ways in a Doctor Who-context, but this wasn't it.It felt like it was going for shock value for the sake of it (like a lot of Torchwood). Trying a bit too hard. A lot of that show would have worked a lot better without the Doctor Who connection I think.
Edit: I guess Doctor Who will have one less viewer tonight, even from a big fan like me. I have to make the choice right now to stay home to watch it or go down to the pub to watch the rugby with friends. I hope the scheduling gets better later in the season.
Yep, those are a bunch of okay episodes.
Not great, not bad. The kind you'd watch if they were on, but wouldn't change the channel to see them or get away from them.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Oh I know, it was more rhetorical. I was just all around annoyed at how S4 ended.
Just over 3 hours from this post
APZonerunner
Member
It's six of one and half a dozen of the other here, though, in that if you believe the rumours part of the reason Moffat has lacked somebody that loyal is because he can be a temper tantrum dick, like... which is supposedly a big part of why the Exec & Producer roles under him have been a revolving door. RTD did blow up, but always contained it to himself (which was self-destructive - when you read some of what he put himself through in his Who years, it's mental) or very rarely to Gardner, who he had a special relationship with.
So, yeah. I also think Gardner was instrumental for RTD & Collinson, who were both old-school fanboys - she didn't know the show, and actively refused to watch Old Who apart from specific episodes RTD recommended for research. She was the litmus test for the average viewer, so she kept a lot of the continuity fanwank (which has become increasingly prevalent under Moffat) out but also made direct suggestions to add it sometimes (like showing all the Doctors for the first time in 'The Next Doctor' - her idea).
Anyway, if Moffat's at fault or not for driving some away (I feel Penhale was particularly good, so it's a shame they had a massive blow-up), it's definitely true that the machine has been less well oiled under him, and it's probably because of the lack of a Gardner-like figure, yes.
Whenever I talk about this, I link this brilliant piece of writing on her, and her impact: http://www.philipsandifer.com/blog/a-woman-the-end-of-time-part-one/
It was never really the RTD era, not really. It was the RTD and Gardner era.
bengraven
Member
Moffat has literally given me everything I've loved about Who since 1999.
- The Red Nose Day parody in 1999
- The Empty Child, Girl in the Fireplace, and Blink - my three favorite RTD era stories
- Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead - my next favorites
- Matt and Peter's years.
- The Red Nose Day parody in 1999
- The Empty Child, Girl in the Fireplace, and Blink - my three favorite RTD era stories
- Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead - my next favorites
- Matt and Peter's years.
Thanks man!
peanutbutterlatte
Member
It was pretty good up until then though. Zany Scissor Sister singing Master, and Utopia is one of the most thrilling episodes of the show to date.
Wedding of River Song is possibly the most rushed, bizarre, dull finale yet. No real Silence pay off, weird amnesia sub-plot and The Doctor being straight up verbally abusive to one of his closest companions. Just so odd.
I agree with this.
It was always an event for me when Moffat episodes were coming up in the RTD era.
APZonerunner
Member
My one big 'what if' Moffat/RTD moment is wondering what would've happened had Moffat not been doing Jekyll and had said yes to what RTD originally offered him for series 3, which was the Dalek 2-parter as well as Blink. I wonder how different it would have been, or how it might've impacted Blink? I'd love to glimpse into that parallel universe.
Class is a kid show for kids that says those "i am not a kid anymore" that disney characters love to say.
Exterminieren
Banned
Strictly Come Dancing is going to be pushing Doctor Who back for the rest of the series. It's a live show with a slowly decreasing cast, so there won't be any hard and fast timeslot for Who going forward.
It's on in 45 minutes, if it helps.
Keyser Soze
Member
I have no idea who are the experts and who are the celebs on Strictly this year
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Flesh avatar... Ick.
And lol those cards!! Glad 12 hasn't lost his autistic side.
If the slimy rich guy isn't the baddie I'll eat my fez.
And lol those cards!! Glad 12 hasn't lost his autistic side.
If the slimy rich guy isn't the baddie I'll eat my fez.
Do you want Salt or Pepper for the Fez? :>
peanutbutterlatte
Member
He was trying to steal shit, he's still a kind of baddie
Keyser Soze
Member
This episode feels like a worse version of Silence in the Library to me.