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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons
- Thread starter Quick
- Start date
I feel the same way. Nice for them just to have an adventure and solve mysteries.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Well now, that was fun. Really underscores again for me why I think Capaldi really needs decent dialog to shine. Maybe the first episode since he's started that I felt he was in his element and recognizable as both The Doctor and his own Doctor, as it should be.
It's funny someone mentioning the X-Files earlier. Both series I think work better as MOTW shows and really need clever stuff to make the episodes revisiting their own mythology work.
I thought this episode was paced great and I hope it doesn't fall apart next week as it really reminds me of a classic Who story.
I dunno, completely forgettable side characters is par for the course for New Who. Non-serial length stories make it harder to make memorable ones. I can't think of a single side character's name for the past 10 years, but I still remember Binro the Heretic.
As for this being worse than Time Heist... well, people never agreeing on this show is one of my favorite things about it
Agree with your post, but just wanted to point out I was thinking this while watching the episode.
There were a few weird little bits in this between him and Clara though that felt more like they should have been in series 8 right after he regenerated. And a good portion of things really only made sense in a kid's show sort of way, but I'm used to letting that slide at this point.
It's funny someone mentioning the X-Files earlier. Both series I think work better as MOTW shows and really need clever stuff to make the episodes revisiting their own mythology work.
I thought this episode was paced great and I hope it doesn't fall apart next week as it really reminds me of a classic Who story.
I dunno, completely forgettable side characters is par for the course for New Who. Non-serial length stories make it harder to make memorable ones. I can't think of a single side character's name for the past 10 years, but I still remember Binro the Heretic.
As for this being worse than Time Heist... well, people never agreeing on this show is one of my favorite things about it
Agree with your post, but just wanted to point out I was thinking this while watching the episode.
There were a few weird little bits in this between him and Clara though that felt more like they should have been in series 8 right after he regenerated. And a good portion of things really only made sense in a kid's show sort of way, but I'm used to letting that slide at this point.
acheron_xl
Member
A highlight was Clara going for the high five and just getting shot down. 10 and 11 would've gleefully indulged her there. But 12? Fuck that!
I immediately thought of Cass from the Night of the Doctor when I heard her name.
But anyway, not leaving much of an impression is kinda the standard with characters from this sort of stories, I find.
I mean, I liked Cass (deaf girl) and her buddy; investor asshole did a good job being an asshole... But unless they're super annoying or have a really poignant moment, guest characters in a random locked down futuristic base always have no chance of being remembered.
The story is still quite fun, though, and sometimes that all you need.
davidcotton
Member
Ein Bear
Member
It was pretty good ... Kind of wish the Ghosts themselves were scarier though, they can't actually do much. There was that bit where a guy was trapped in a room with one and absolutely shitting himself, and all I could think was 'just grab the spanner and he can't hurt you'.
Other than the slightly crap monsters though, I quite enjoyed it. It's nice to have an episode that's just about the Doctor landing in a place and having an adventure, instead of anything more grandiose. Some great humor too, the flash cards were great.
Interested to see what happens next week, splitting the episode into two different time zones could be really cool.
Other than the slightly crap monsters though, I quite enjoyed it. It's nice to have an episode that's just about the Doctor landing in a place and having an adventure, instead of anything more grandiose. Some great humor too, the flash cards were great.
Interested to see what happens next week, splitting the episode into two different time zones could be really cool.
acheron_xl
Member
The ghosts muttering silently was a nice, creepy touch.
Dr Zhivago
Member
I'm presuming the reason the Tardis was acting strangely
is that the Doctor has to leave it in the flooded town in the past, so there's two Tardises present when they first arrive.
Nearly all of the reviews I've read of Under The Lake so far (fan reviews, not official ones) have been very, very positive. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who really enjoyed it. Even my Mum who doesn't like modern who anymore (she stopped watching around the time Matt Smith became Doctor) seemed to enjoy it, and even commented that Capaldi reminds her of Tom Baker.
Also I wasn't too sure about the series being in 2-parters but I'm quite enjoying the build up towards the next episode now, I can't wait.
Also I wasn't too sure about the series being in 2-parters but I'm quite enjoying the build up towards the next episode now, I can't wait.
Very, very interesting episode. I can see how some people are saying it's standard Doctor who, and in some regards it is, but tonally it's unlike anything we've seen before. Almost like a completely new reimagination of the classic series.
Loved it, incredibly atmospheric. I get the criticism that it could have been folded in next week's episode, plotwise, but I don't think that's the point. Sure, not a lot happens, but it's all about taking the time to get that sense of exploration back. Very interesting choices in this episode.
Oh and Capaldi was on fire.
Loved it, incredibly atmospheric. I get the criticism that it could have been folded in next week's episode, plotwise, but I don't think that's the point. Sure, not a lot happens, but it's all about taking the time to get that sense of exploration back. Very interesting choices in this episode.
Oh and Capaldi was on fire.
paradox121
Member
It took me a while to realise the top hat ghost has the trademark Tivolian teeth so I assume we'll see him next week and find out how he dies. I kinda hope we see more of them in general because they're a pretty clever race to set the Doctor up against.
Yet another England match next week so I wouldn't expect much, although I guess we're out now so it may not have as much interest. I do expect a small Maisie Williams bump the week after though.
Shorty11857
Member
I don't know why BBC put it on directly against the England match, makes no sense to me
To be fair, the BBC has admitted they're counting on iPlayer more for shows like Who, so it's more certain media that make a fuss about the ratings. Still an odd choice for one of their flagship shows.
There's something I'm very interested in hearing from people here who have kids that watch the show with them (particularly from the UK). How are they taking the show these days? Capaldi is a gift for people like me, an older fan who wanted the modern show to be slightly less manic and a bit more like the classic show, but now that we have it I have to wonder if it's still interesting to kids, especially the slower pacing. It's quite a switch compared to just a little while ago, especially considering most shows still have that faster pacing, and that trend of going for 'slower' shows so far mostly limited itself to more adult shows.
About the ep: very happy with it. The supporting cast was hit or miss, but as soon as Capaldi and Coleman entered the scene they made it all work for me. It helped that I was slightly drunk I suppose, which helped me overlook some of the flaws, and really get into the moment with all those slow scenes. Some pretty smart little choices everywhere, like the psychic paper not having to lie about who the Doctor is and everyone on the crew knowing and trusting him immediately, which saved us that little subplot of the Doctor being seen as a suspicious guy who just showed up when people started dying. This show is making some very good choices, and it seems like they've found Capaldi's voice now. I hope the rest of the season delivers.
a secret-boss
Banned
i miss creepy episodes like this
dreamcastmaster
Banned
Exactly what I felt.
mightynine
Member
I thought it started a little slow, and Capaldi felt softer at first, but as the episode went on, the story started to drag me in more, we found that 12 is really only a little less rough around the edges with Clara, and I'm interested in how they work themselves out of this cliffhanger.
As for shallow side characters, I don't feel like the show has really strong ones, well, ever. EDIT: I should clarify - I mean for the modern series, I have not watched much of the classic episodes. Like someone mentioned before, I remember characteristics - the dad of the girl who became a "vampire", the captain on the base on Mars, the captain that went to blow up the moon, the one who was on that Big Brother-ish show. They are only around for usually one episode, so they are thematic points rather than full-blown characters, yes?
Not to say that a good performance of said character - like, say Shona - can't make a better impression. But if they never bring her up again, will I randomly remember her in a few years time?
As for shallow side characters, I don't feel like the show has really strong ones, well, ever. EDIT: I should clarify - I mean for the modern series, I have not watched much of the classic episodes. Like someone mentioned before, I remember characteristics - the dad of the girl who became a "vampire", the captain on the base on Mars, the captain that went to blow up the moon, the one who was on that Big Brother-ish show. They are only around for usually one episode, so they are thematic points rather than full-blown characters, yes?
Not to say that a good performance of said character - like, say Shona - can't make a better impression. But if they never bring her up again, will I randomly remember her in a few years time?
I dunno, completely forgettable side characters is par for the course for New Who. Non-serial length stories make it harder to make memorable ones. I can't think of a single side character's name for the past 10 years, but I still remember Binro the Heretic.
As for this being worse than Time Heist... well, people never agreeing on this show is one of my favorite things about it
Just left me cold this one. The characters, the story, the setting. Just too familiar to capture the imagination, and characters too weak to draw you in anyway. Capaldi was noticeably having to carry it, and with not enough else driving it there was this feeling of just get on with it throughout.
As MOTW episodes go, we don't have to go back far for much better examples. Mummy/Flatline, which also had much stronger characters. Even Time Heist, which also dragged, did. The supporting characters do matter, as it's through the Doctor/companion's investment in them that we are invested in what is going on, and that just didn't come across at all for me with this one. It just had this peculiar feeling of everyone, even the monsters themselves, just going through the motions.
It was nicely shot, but that was about it for me. Hopefully the 2nd part will take an unremarkable and overly drawn-out episode somewhere more interesting.
SigmasonicX
Member
Like others, I guess I was just itching for a "normal" story, since I enjoyed this episode. My family was talking a lot during the episode, so the thing with the letters in the ship being a meme that gets embedded in your mind seemed to come out of nowhere. BTW, I was disappointed that they didn't go Metal Gear Solid 2 by talking about memes. I thought the characters were decently memorable, though I kept on going, "Wait, there was a woman besides the deaf woman?" and such throughout. However, it was disappointing that the one black guy died before even the opening credits.
Capaldi's scenes were great, especially with the note cards. I will agree that the ghosts lost a lot of their menace once we saw how little they could do, but they had a nice look to them. I suppose the story was a bit slow, but I didn't think it was a bad pace. I thought the cliffhanger with the Doctor ghost was cute, which is really all I want from cliffhangers.
I hope it doesn't turn out that the Doctor is the one who created the ghosts, because that would mean he killed three people just for the sake of a time loop. And even if he is able to bring them back to life after, he still put people in distress and made a mess of the base. I hope that he just created the coordinates meme and the ghosts are due to something else that he's just piggybacking off of.
Capaldi's scenes were great, especially with the note cards. I will agree that the ghosts lost a lot of their menace once we saw how little they could do, but they had a nice look to them. I suppose the story was a bit slow, but I didn't think it was a bad pace. I thought the cliffhanger with the Doctor ghost was cute, which is really all I want from cliffhangers.
I hope it doesn't turn out that the Doctor is the one who created the ghosts, because that would mean he killed three people just for the sake of a time loop. And even if he is able to bring them back to life after, he still put people in distress and made a mess of the base. I hope that he just created the coordinates meme and the ghosts are due to something else that he's just piggybacking off of.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Why are people comparing the first part of a two-parter to single episodes? We haven't seen the complete story yet.
I do think they should work as standalone episodes, even if they are two-parters. Even if there are obvious unresolved plotpoints, it should work on its own. It's the same reason why I think, when you watch the classic series, it's much more enjoyable to take a break of at least a day between each episode, instead of watching it as a single movie. The pacing works a lot better that way.
There are also a lot of two-parters were one of the two parts is noticeably better than the other. The both tell their own story - in this case, the mystery of the ghosts in the underwater base and how the Doctor deals with that, and next week (presumably) the story of what happened with that ship and that village that got turned into a lake. When a two-parter works well it's set up like that - less a complete story cut in two for the sake of available air time, more two separate, specific stories that make up a complete whole when put together.
Don't know if this makes sense - it's late here and very little sleep.
Yeah, I'm glad they aren't completely brushing Danny's death under a rug. She's still trying to get over it.
It's a bit tough to avoid when both shows are run by the same guy.
Are you talking about the Doctor being an ass?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That came up last night when I was talking about the episode with my wife. It's less the dialog than it is the specific "I'm really not good at dealing with people who feel emotions" aspect of his personality. When it's played up (and it's been played up quite a bit) it's very similar to Moffat's Sherlock and the sort of annoyed befuddlement at stupid people who feel more than they think.
Not to say there hasn't been a (more muted) aspect of that to previous Doctors, because there has. But the specific way Twelve goes about expressing it sounds a bit like Sherlock, yeah.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Capaldi's grumpy 12 is reminiscent of Hartwell's grumpy 1. The original concept for Doctor Who was no doubt inspired by Doyle's Sherlock Holmes, a brash impossibly intelligent man with little regard for the feeling of those around him.
It's like me complaining Hugh Laurie's House is too similar to Capaldi.
It's like me complaining Hugh Laurie's House is too similar to Capaldi.
Hot Coldman
Banned
The big difference between the Doctor and Sherlock Holmes is that the Doctor does care about those around him, he's just not at all interested in their present emotional state. So long as they're safe, he's swell.
Whereas Sherlock is purely in it to massage his own ego.
Whereas Sherlock is purely in it to massage his own ego.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
But Season 3 of Sherlock basically exists to prove that Sherlock does (and has always) cared about those around them.
These two specific iterations of the characters (who, yeah, share some similarities in general) are definitely closing the gap between them, I think.
paradox121
Member
https://www.facebook.com/LEGO/photo....6665038402/10153238296373403/?type=3&theater
That's a damn nice looking LEGO TARDIS. Looks like we'll be getting more info about the proper set soonish.
I quite enjoyed that episode, got very surprised that it was a two-parter as I did not see that coming.
My only complaints is that they seemed to have gotten rid of the Sonic Screwdriver and just going with the Sonic glasses, which I think is just silly.
She's was okay but I feels that she misrepresent deaf people as she was clearly written in so they could have a character who can read lips, plus it falls into the trap that all deaf people use sign language.
I am profoundly deaf, wear hearing aids in both ears and can read lips but I don't use sign language as I never learnt it. So I don't feel connected with her at all.
My only complaints is that they seemed to have gotten rid of the Sonic Screwdriver and just going with the Sonic glasses, which I think is just silly.
She's was okay but I feels that she misrepresent deaf people as she was clearly written in so they could have a character who can read lips, plus it falls into the trap that all deaf people use sign language.
I am profoundly deaf, wear hearing aids in both ears and can read lips but I don't use sign language as I never learnt it. So I don't feel connected with her at all.
I don't really see an issue with the Doctor being a Sherlock-like character, nor do I think he's more similar to Moffat's Sherlock than to any of its other incarnations. As someone already pointed out, his first iteration owed plenty to the character already and that's never stopped being true. He's a socially awkward, troubled detective/scientist who takes on only the cases that interest him just for the thrill of it, accompanied by a support character which the show uses for the viewers to identify themselves and for the Doctor to have someone to bounce ideas off - that's pretty much the Sherlock framework.
If anything I find it funny that people may find issues with these similarities since I think when the Doctor reflects those traits is when the show's at its best - stumbling upon some situation that intrigues him enough to get involved, deducing his way out of the situation and showing how clever he is without having to rely on plot devices but on the established framework of each episode, getting caught up in the hubris of his anti-social single-mindedness sometimes... I mean, the alternative is him being an overpowered time-travelling hero with fewer character flaws, which I think would be less interesting.
And I do think Hugh Laurie's House is a closer comparison to Capaldi than Cumberbatch, but then again he's also a character heavily inspired by Sherlock, so whatev.
Also, that Lego set is so mine. I need it now. It's gonna look awesome on my office desk.
If anything I find it funny that people may find issues with these similarities since I think when the Doctor reflects those traits is when the show's at its best - stumbling upon some situation that intrigues him enough to get involved, deducing his way out of the situation and showing how clever he is without having to rely on plot devices but on the established framework of each episode, getting caught up in the hubris of his anti-social single-mindedness sometimes... I mean, the alternative is him being an overpowered time-travelling hero with fewer character flaws, which I think would be less interesting.
And I do think Hugh Laurie's House is a closer comparison to Capaldi than Cumberbatch, but then again he's also a character heavily inspired by Sherlock, so whatev.
Also, that Lego set is so mine. I need it now. It's gonna look awesome on my office desk.
I don't usually have a problem with a familiar actor turning up unexpectedly - I had no problem with Colin McFarlane, who's both an established actor and The Voice Of The Cube. But I kept doing double-takes at Arsher Ali, who I'd last seen playing a particularly slimy investigative reporter in The Missing. Which is a shame, 'cause it's a character I'd probably like if I didn't keep butting up against that!
Stallion Dan
Member
Wasn't Clara meant to be pregnant? Or did that theory go bust?
Also, he was never allowed into the ship, so had never seen the writing. I suspect that's no coincidence.
The previews certainly undersell the episode a lot.
Also notice that the ghost was looking at his closed eyes when deciding whether or not to clobber him with the wrench. And the question of why the ghosts have no eyes in the first place is bound to be significant.