(also I thought Danny was honestly one of the very best 'companion-family' characters of them all, and that his inclusion made Clara's character arc a lot better, but I know I'm in the minority with this. He's a bit more serious than other characters, but he turned Clara into an actual, imperfect character instead of just a perky plot device. I thought he was very well written too, and very different from what we've gotten before)
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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons
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(also I thought Danny was honestly one of the very best 'companion-family' characters of them all, and that his inclusion made Clara's character arc a lot better, but I know I'm in the minority with this. He's a bit more serious than other characters, but he turned Clara into an actual, imperfect character instead of just a perky plot device. I thought he was very well written too, and very different from what we've gotten before)
Do so. They're pretty great.
That's ridiculous logic. That post-it could be referencing how long they've been going out, or how long past the use-by date her luncheon meat is. To just assume she's pregnant from that note alone is beyond stupid.
Orson is obviously related to the Pink timeline, but that doesn't mean he's related to Clara. One of Danny's cousins could be the father to Orson. Orson bore no resemblance to Clara but obviously carries the Pink genes.
Come on, who was the time-traveller in his family's history then as he was the first by conventional means and the toy soldier was tying him to them.
It's obvious what was intended.
Don't we know this to be true?
He wrote that episode with the notion that she was leaving, and had to rewrite the ending when she changed her mind.
Yep, and whatever possibly pregnancy storyline would have to be scrapped since they can't have pregnant Clara running around facing ghosts.
That's not exactly what happened. According to Moffat he wrote two endings at the same time, because Jenna's contract was up and they simply didn't know for sure yet if she was going to leave while he was writing it, but that Moffat hoped she'd stay because he favored the ending we got. Doesn't take away from the fact that he wrote an episode that could have acted as an ending for her, but the fact that it wasn't was always considered a possibility (and what Moffat was hoping would happen).
I wouldn't be surprised if the Danny-Orson problem comes up again, and yeah, I definitely think the intended message was that Clara was the time travelling granny. I think the '3 months'-note is a bit of a stretch though - right now we have a Clara who is willing to throw herself into danger without any regard for her safety to the point that it's starting to concern the Doctor. She's using the Tardis as the ultimate form of escapism (I compared it to a drug addiction earlier in this thread) because when Danny died she lost her reasons for trying to keep those lies about her second, time-travelling life going in order to maintain the illusion of a boring, well-function real life. If she knew she was pregnant with Danny's baby, I doubt she'd be so careless. She is born to be a nanny/caretaker in every way after all.
I think it'll either be revealed that Clara is pregnant without knowing it, which causes her to leave the Tardis when she finds out because she has something to live an actual life for again (I'd be willing to put down money for that ending, given what they're doing with her now and how bleak most other endings would be), or that Orson was just one eventuality and that 'time can be rewritten'. I don't think Danny is coming back from the dead.
infiniteloop
Member
The Witch's Familiar finished with an official rating of 5.71 million viewers. 😦
The lowest since the series returned in 2005.
The lowest since the series returned in 2005.
The rugby is killing it. Reminds me of when Top Gear went up against I'm A Celebrity and got slaughtered.
I wonder what that means for next year?
infiniteloop
Member
Rugby isn't a excuse for people not catching up during the week, though.
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
Doctor Who is dead, cancellation imminent!
As people have said, there's a "core audience" of about 2 million that catch up on iPlayer each week. The rest of it is either people who anticipate that Who is on and watch it regardless or people who will stick the telly on and see what's on. The rugby's sucking up all of those viewers is the problem.
On the other hand, in the US this season opening broke records by having the biggest increase in viewership ever, nearly doubling it from last year (which was at the time the new record). And it doesn't take into account iPlayer and the like.
The show might get in trouble over what's happening with the BBC right now, but not because of these viewing figures. They are fully aware they're putting it in a terrible time slot, and that gets accounted for when they look at them (again, the BBC confirmed multiple times that online views (iPlayer, iTunes, Amazon etc) are much more important to them than live views these days). The end is not nigh. No reason to panic guys.
On Orson Pink, this is what Moffat had to say about it in the DWM:
We can come up with ways for this to work, but I think it's fair to say that Moffat wrote that episode with Orson being their kid in mind, and then things changed because of Jenna.
I personally would rather have a "time was rewritten" thing: Danny died and Orson stopped existing, but the Doctor and Clara still met him and that still happened to them. Changing the future while still considering the experience that was erased is part of the show's logic, and it's easier to work with than explanations that ask for various assumptions.
That doesn't cover the "time-travelling grandparent" bit and the fact that Pink was an orphan, which means offspring from his family wouldn't look exactly like him (unless Clara reached out to his biological family somehow, or that Pink was already in touch with them, but them we start having to assume too much with things that weren't in the show).
We can come up with ways for this to work, but I think it's fair to say that Moffat wrote that episode with Orson being their kid in mind, and then things changed because of Jenna.
I personally would rather have a "time was rewritten" thing: Danny died and Orson stopped existing, but the Doctor and Clara still met him and that still happened to them. Changing the future while still considering the experience that was erased is part of the show's logic, and it's easier to work with than explanations that ask for various assumptions.
infiniteloop
Member
I thought the ratings included iPlayer now?
Well, I mean, the Valeyard never happened either, but that still presumably happened to the Sixth Doctor. Sometimes, purposefully or otherwise, the Doctor goes to town on the history books of his own setting.
As for all this War Doctor 8th Doctor stuff, it seems really cool, but I worry that it's an indication of an impending changing of the guard at Big Finish for Doctor Who. I would like NuWho Doctors to enter the Big Finish line. I would not like them at the cost of more 8th Doctor stuff. There's always room to go back at tell more stories I suppose, but they've been more or less moving in one direction along the 8th's timeline since his line started. The Time War is where the 8th ends up. That's the end for him.
Just makes me a little nervous is all.
Ugh, that sucks.
Yep. This is why I'd rather Moffat went with that instead of giving an explanation that doesn't actually solve anything lol.
That would be ideal, yeah. I'm pretty curious about how Clara will leave the show since we've seen her "leave" more than once by now. Moffat recently said in an interview that will be
a "traumatic" event
APZonerunner
Member
Digital Spy has a great article debunking some of the 'beginning of the end' ratings talk - what they ultimately say is that ratings have definitely and definitively fallen in the UK by around a million, but it isn't as bad as the overnights would have you believe (as much as 4 million) thanks to time-shifts. So it's down, but not as down as the doom cries would have you believe. The worse thing, they argue, is that the show is now losing steam in terms of its perception from the media and from the general public, and thus ends by saying possibly the best thing for the show now would be a rest that perhaps the time is coming for 2-3 years off and a new outlook/showrunner when it returns.
Incidentally, this is precisely what the BBC wanted to do when RTD told them he was planning to leave, but RTD fought back and essentially forced the issue and said "you have your successor" pointing to Moffat and even doing an extra year over what he/Tennant/Gardner initially planned (the specials) to give them breathing room, so I could absolutely see it happening in 2017.
I really think Capaldi will stick to Troughton's infamous rule - advice given to Peter Davison then passed on from him down the line - do three series', then go. Tennant followed it, Smith did - both of them cited the Troughton Rule in interviews. Can't see Capaldi doing differently. If we get 4 specials (plus Christmas) in 2016 as the rumours indicate, then one more series with Capaldi/Moffat in 2017, there's a big question mark of what happens beyond that. We know 10 is the last Series Moffat is currently contracted to do as well. It might be time for a short rest.
Incidentally, this is precisely what the BBC wanted to do when RTD told them he was planning to leave, but RTD fought back and essentially forced the issue and said "you have your successor" pointing to Moffat and even doing an extra year over what he/Tennant/Gardner initially planned (the specials) to give them breathing room, so I could absolutely see it happening in 2017.
I really think Capaldi will stick to Troughton's infamous rule - advice given to Peter Davison then passed on from him down the line - do three series', then go. Tennant followed it, Smith did - both of them cited the Troughton Rule in interviews. Can't see Capaldi doing differently. If we get 4 specials (plus Christmas) in 2016 as the rumours indicate, then one more series with Capaldi/Moffat in 2017, there's a big question mark of what happens beyond that. We know 10 is the last Series Moffat is currently contracted to do as well. It might be time for a short rest.
BrokenFiction
Member
They would never do it, but with 9 living doctors, they should use the season after next to produce 4-5 Other Doctor specials. Each one would feature one (maybe two) of the Doctors. It would jazz up the brand in the UK. (The brand keeps rising in the U.S., so that's not such a problem.)
I don't think a two or three year rest would be too terrible just so long as I know for sure the show will definitely return. A "mini-wilderness" wouldn't hurt anything I don't think. All the supplemental stuff would tick on, the Big Finish, the comics, ect. I'd survive.
My only worry would be that they would somehow fall completely on their faces and it would just somehow fail to come back. But then, I lived through the proper Wilderness Years. I have abandonment issues.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
You don't necessarily have to have the rest. Sherwin managed to turn things around just by changing the doctor and fiddling with the format.
Moffat & Capaldi will both need to go for sure (moffat because I can't see him doing the show any other way and capaldi because he will be inextricably linked with moffat's style), but I'm not convinced a break would be necessary.
I'm not even sure it'd be possible given the consistent rumours that per the deal reached with the nation estate the daleks have to be used at least once every calendar year.
bishopcruz
Member
There's an interesting thing in the Class press release that I don't think has been discussed here yet:
London is unprotected. Could mean nothing and just an intern quickly writing a vague summary, or it could hint at something more. If we assume that the rumors are true and we'll just have specials next year (and the fact that Class will air in the fall seems to hint that we won't have Who at the same time, but who knows), maybe there will be some sort of narrative link between those specials that leaves the Doctor preoccupied with some other intergalactic adventure which prevents him from coming to earth/London? Maybe (and this is a wild theory) the finale leaves the Doctor in a reverse situation from the Third Doctor and he will be banned from earth? Or whatever reason they can come up with for the Doctor going 'missing' for a while - both in the universe of the show and from our tv screens?
London is unprotected. Could mean nothing and just an intern quickly writing a vague summary, or it could hint at something more. If we assume that the rumors are true and we'll just have specials next year (and the fact that Class will air in the fall seems to hint that we won't have Who at the same time, but who knows), maybe there will be some sort of narrative link between those specials that leaves the Doctor preoccupied with some other intergalactic adventure which prevents him from coming to earth/London? Maybe (and this is a wild theory) the finale leaves the Doctor in a reverse situation from the Third Doctor and he will be banned from earth? Or whatever reason they can come up with for the Doctor going 'missing' for a while - both in the universe of the show and from our tv screens?
Would the omnibus be recorded as a separate programme?
Not that I think it did spectacularly, but it might well have been missed off if it was.
I'm calling stranded on Gallifrey.
TheCowboyPoet
Member
I wonder how long they'll stick it out with Capaldi with these low ratings.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Well they'll want to see a non-rugby episode for a start
mightynine
Member
I don't see them giving Who a rest because it might kill the momentum in America.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That was the first place I went as well. Stranded/imprisoned/held hostage.
EvilRedEye
Member
It's interesting because I swear I read or heard somewhere that Nicholas Briggs had said they wanted to drag out the Eighth Doctor's narrative as long as they could before taking it to the point of The Night of the Doctor but now it looks like their Doom Coalition storyline and the prequel set might have everything wrapped up by the end of 2017.
I think there are positive aspects to shifting the Eighth Doctor to more of a 'past Doctor' set-up. We know the end point of the Eighth Doctor's story and the list of companions in the Night of the Doctor heavily implies the current Big Finish adventures are near the end of that story (even if that wasn't particularly deliberate). It made sense to continue the Eighth Doctor adventures as an ongoing narrative after the series started again on TV, but now that we've got a very solid idea of where the canon ends up after the Eighth Doctor from a decade of telly, we specifically know the end of the Eighth Doctor story, we're about to get audio adventures about the subsequent incarnation and there's even a slight defiance of canon involved in continuing to give the Eighth Doctor new companions, it makes less sense and could end up coming across as dragging things out for the sake of it.
Who knows, they might just be moving to shuffle his releases more on the Night of the Doctor side of things so they can market them more as New Who prequel releases.
I mean, on the optimistic side, we don't know how long the 8th Doctor was involved with Time War shenanigans before Night of the Doctor happened. Seemed like maybe a while. I dunno.
Worse comes to worse, McGann had an outstanding run in the audios and I will marathon everything over again from Stormfront if it somehow comes to that.
Maybe I'll even subject myself to the TV movie again. Who knows. Stranger things have happened.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It does seem like they kinda sideways snuck in Liv Chenka as a companion during the Dark Eyes saga, which now makes his speech in Night of the Doctor kind of a snub of her. I'm wondering if they're gonna get rid of her in the upcoming dramas before they have to "count" her.
(I also wonder if she got elevated to primary companion during that run for purely story reasons, or if there were availability problems with the actress who played Molly and they had to come up with something on the fly)
(I also wonder if she got elevated to primary companion during that run for purely story reasons, or if there were availability problems with the actress who played Molly and they had to come up with something on the fly)
For people being afraid that they'll stop making McGann audios: don't forget that they recently released this:
That's the story of the last adventure of Colin Baker's Doctor, leading up to his regeneration (he didn't really have one in the tv show because he was fired, and they ended up just putting a wig on Sylvester McCoy and show him falling over). It's not his actual final audio for Big Finish - they'll keep on making more stories for him that just take place earlier. I figure it's the same with Paul McGann, it just makes sense to tell the Time War part now because they're aiming to draw in the New Who fans as much as possible, and the timing with getting John Hurt works out. If McGann wants to do more after that, I'm sure it won't be a problem at all.
That's the story of the last adventure of Colin Baker's Doctor, leading up to his regeneration (he didn't really have one in the tv show because he was fired, and they ended up just putting a wig on Sylvester McCoy and show him falling over). It's not his actual final audio for Big Finish - they'll keep on making more stories for him that just take place earlier. I figure it's the same with Paul McGann, it just makes sense to tell the Time War part now because they're aiming to draw in the New Who fans as much as possible, and the timing with getting John Hurt works out. If McGann wants to do more after that, I'm sure it won't be a problem at all.
Oh, I know. Rational brain says everything will be fine. Emotional brain says, "Don't take away my 8th Doctor!" It's just anxiety tickling at the back of my brain. The only reason they'd stop is if Paul wanted to stop and by all accounts, he loves doing the audios.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, there was one created a year or so ago, I think.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Coming this fall...
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
I finally saw the new episode, I thought it was fantastic.
The pacing was great, the 2 parter gave it time to breathe, and the monsters were creepy. Reminds me of the older who stuff, not sure if that was their intention, but damn, it made it all the more better.
The pacing was great, the 2 parter gave it time to breathe, and the monsters were creepy. Reminds me of the older who stuff, not sure if that was their intention, but damn, it made it all the more better.
Coming this fall...
That looks cool!
After rewatching Under The Lake I quite like Bennett (the scientist). He gets quite a lot of attention, probably the most out of the cast except maybe Cass, and the next time trailer showed him quite a lot too.
His mentions of aliens and wanting to join UNIT kinda makes me hope he could be a companion, he's kinda like Osgood without the weird Doctor obsession.
His mentions of aliens and wanting to join UNIT kinda makes me hope he could be a companion, he's kinda like Osgood without the weird Doctor obsession.
Coming this fall...
This will be mine. €55 is a bit much though (though normal for Lego standards I suppose), but I guess I'll consider it an early christmas gift to myself. That 1st of December date means that's when it'll be available I guess?
I hope there's a chance we'll get one more set or seperate figurines so we can get all the Doctors though.
Edit: It mentions K9 and Cybermen on the box, but they're not pictured there. I know you can get them for Lego Dimensions, so perhaps they'll just include that copyright for all their DW related stuff?
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Having a legit male companion would be nice.
Rory and Captain Jack were awesome, and seeing classic who Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart and Harry, we need more of that please.
Rather liked that one, it was very classic "Who" and I'm enjoying the two part run so far as it gives more time for the narrative to unfold (as well as cliff hangers which I always loved from the classic years.
Would pay good money for a sweary episode with Capaldi still. The man swears like no other.
Would pay good money for a sweary episode with Capaldi still. The man swears like no other.
