One possible explanation in my spoilers in last reply
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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons
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One possible explanation in my spoilers in last reply
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I'm gunna take a wild stab in the dark and say that the dead character appearing in an episode based around shape shifting aliens is probably a shaft shifting alien. Give me bonus points if she has forgotten or been conditioned to forget she's an alien, turns to the alien side when she remembers or is activated, then ends up sacrificing herself to save the humans because she remembers being a human and stuff.
Really enjoyed tonight episode.
Really enjoyed tonight episode.
Nope,
their were two of them. One a Zygon who looked like her and one a human. I don't know which one they killed off though.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I totally forgot that even happened.
Dr Zhivago
Member
Dunno why people are spoiler tagging this:
The mystery is going to be which one was killed.
The mystery is going to be which one was killed.
It is also possible that it's just set between the two episodes though
EDIT: Why am I suddenly getting the feeling that Me is going to off Clara to teach the Doctor a lesson?
Dude there was a reference to The Visitation in this episode XD
EDIT: Why am I suddenly getting the feeling that Me is going to off Clara to teach the Doctor a lesson?
Slow, but wholly robust, funny and mostly well-written. Very character driven. Good thing you got great actors such as Peter Capaldi and Maisie Williams to drive those characters then. There was very little here that felt unexpected in any way, though; this was the natural path they would take a character who's become immortal, and then try and draw parallells to The Doctor, which they of course did.
But it was well done, with the folks of the 17th Century (particularly Sam Swift) providing some good mood to an otherwise dim and strained atmosphere that surrounded The Doctor and Ashildr's relationship. As often when doing these character driven stories the underlying alien menace becomes a bit dull and boring, that's an unfortunate tradeoff. Overall I liked it a lot, but I have a feeling I'd be considerably less positive about it had it not've been for the superb acting.
Oh, but let me just say that I loved the ending scene with Clara. Bittersweet in a way; warm, but haunting and brooding at the same time. Very good move to have her away for an episode, it was refreshing, and because of that seeing her again was more impactful and made you happy (well, it made me happy, at least).
But it was well done, with the folks of the 17th Century (particularly Sam Swift) providing some good mood to an otherwise dim and strained atmosphere that surrounded The Doctor and Ashildr's relationship. As often when doing these character driven stories the underlying alien menace becomes a bit dull and boring, that's an unfortunate tradeoff. Overall I liked it a lot, but I have a feeling I'd be considerably less positive about it had it not've been for the superb acting.
Oh, but let me just say that I loved the ending scene with Clara. Bittersweet in a way; warm, but haunting and brooding at the same time. Very good move to have her away for an episode, it was refreshing, and because of that seeing her again was more impactful and made you happy (well, it made me happy, at least).
funkystudent
Member
A good two parter.
Both parts felt unique and stand alone on their own. Heck you could have put part 2 a few episodes later or in a new season and it would have still worked.
Ill be curious if Williams returns. As always with these kind of things with Who its always just as likely this plot is never mentioned again.
Both parts felt unique and stand alone on their own. Heck you could have put part 2 a few episodes later or in a new season and it would have still worked.
Ill be curious if Williams returns. As always with these kind of things with Who its always just as likely this plot is never mentioned again.
paradox121
Member
I liked it fine but nowhere near as much as last weeks. Severely lacking some kind of B plot or just something to get everything moving a bit. There's just a continuous string of scenes at the beginning where its just Ashildr and the Doctor talking that desperately needed to be broken up with something.
It's kind of a shame because its fantastic thematically and Maisie Williams does great stuff, but its just a bit sloggy in parts. Maybe it would've been better to have Ashildr be outright evil from the start, trying to steal the TARDIS rather than trick the Doctor. I dunno, just needed...something.
Scene between Ashildr and the Doctor and then Clara and the Doctor at the end were both superb though. I loved the uneasiness.
It's kind of a shame because its fantastic thematically and Maisie Williams does great stuff, but its just a bit sloggy in parts. Maybe it would've been better to have Ashildr be outright evil from the start, trying to steal the TARDIS rather than trick the Doctor. I dunno, just needed...something.
Scene between Ashildr and the Doctor and then Clara and the Doctor at the end were both superb though. I loved the uneasiness.
If by that you mean hugely relieving. So so so bored of her...
As someone who loathed series 8, series 9 is PHENOMENAL so far. I've adored every single episode. Lots of cheesy moments, lots of weird alien "gotchas," but that's Who at its core. Even when in Series 1 you had uh, the lost boy episode with "are you my mummy" it ended up just being a scapegoat to tell that particular story. I don't mind it, because they're interesting stories. Also reminded me greatly of girl in the fireplace.
Edit: The "it's me" line was in fact horrible lol. I would've preferred a more sarcastic "yes.. Me." kinda approach
Edit: The "it's me" line was in fact horrible lol. I would've preferred a more sarcastic "yes.. Me." kinda approach
infiniteloop
Member
YES
ITS ME
never thought Williams was a bad actress but she was not good here. Direction was poor too.
Another dull episode. Next weeks looks like it might be interesting?
ITS ME
never thought Williams was a bad actress but she was not good here. Direction was poor too.
Another dull episode. Next weeks looks like it might be interesting?
Thought it was an excellent episode, great dialogue writing and good directing that knows how to work around limitations. Laughed out loud at that scene with the quick cuts when they were escaping the manor and entered the room with the guy sleeping, so silly. Also really dug the way they started the scene with the Doctor playing the guitar at the end, and the short convo with Clara was touching too.
I liked the slower pace and focus on the two characters. Much better material for Maisie Williams to work with too, both she and Capaldi killed it.
The alien lion plot was weak, but it doesn't really matter since it was just for backdrop. To be honest a lot of times the actual alien material is just nonsense anyway, so I appreciate when it's not the focus like it was the case here.
I liked the slower pace and focus on the two characters. Much better material for Maisie Williams to work with too, both she and Capaldi killed it.
The alien lion plot was weak, but it doesn't really matter since it was just for backdrop. To be honest a lot of times the actual alien material is just nonsense anyway, so I appreciate when it's not the focus like it was the case here.
Agreed. I was going to make a longer post around what you said here, but I'll just quote yours.
ClivePwned
Member
Hmm, I enjoyed the episode but what a mess it was.
so an enjoyable hot mess. halfway through the season and we still haven't had our 'Kill the Moon/In the Forest-type, shoot the television after the denouement is revealed' moment.
so an enjoyable hot mess. halfway through the season and we still haven't had our 'Kill the Moon/In the Forest-type, shoot the television after the denouement is revealed' moment.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
This.
She has no part at all. Boring.
Be sad if/when Capaldi cries, but other than that....
Thought it was another good one. Williams was really good and has a nice chemistry acting with Capaldi. Some great character work even if there was nothing really surprising outside of the intro. Fun to see a different companion.
I would agree that it was probably a little slow-paced since I almost checked how much time was in the episode once. But things made logical sense, I remembered who the side characters were and their names. They got the big stuff right.
It was probably an element or two away from being really great (maybe something to drive the plot along a little more and some better jokes), but it was an enjoyable episode.
I would agree that it was probably a little slow-paced since I almost checked how much time was in the episode once. But things made logical sense, I remembered who the side characters were and their names. They got the big stuff right.
It was probably an element or two away from being really great (maybe something to drive the plot along a little more and some better jokes), but it was an enjoyable episode.
tonysidaway
Member
Oh I love it. This is an extremely strong story, which foreshadows the departure of Clara while highlighting the importance of her role in Doctor Who's life. It's one of the meditative episodes, with lots of talk, which play to Peter Capaldi's strengths as a character actor. Maisie Williams fits well into that mode of story, too. Her redemption is all the more welcome, after her earlier bitterness.
The teaser for next week, with Osgood back though perhaps not for long, really made me smile. I really hope she becomes a recurring character, at least.
Yes. It's going to be built up well, and even some of the cynics in this thread will shed a tear or two. Moffat knows what he's doing.
The teaser for next week, with Osgood back though perhaps not for long, really made me smile. I really hope she becomes a recurring character, at least.
Yes. It's going to be built up well, and even some of the cynics in this thread will shed a tear or two. Moffat knows what he's doing.
tonysidaway
Member
UNIT works like that sometimes. Tricky.
Wow. People disliked this episode? I enjoyed it a lot. I enjoyed it more then last weeks. It wasn't action packed but I love strong character episodes and when the Doctor has to go one on one with another character that isn't the companion and this was one of them. There is no way this is the last we see of Ashildr. Not how this ended. I really want see the follow up to this story with her watching the Doctor's actions and his companions. That really interesting and also super creepy.
DangerMouse
Member
Yeah, and Capaldi's totally gonna make it hit fully home too...it's going to be rough.
Really well done ep.
That name drop was so good.
legendaryskitch
Member
I really enjoyed the immortality aspects of the episode but the lionman storyline felt tacked on. I would love to see an episode that involves Ashildr and Jack Harkness. Should be easier to get Barrowman back now that his character isn't as important on Arrow
BrokenFiction
Member
What a fantastic episode! So many great character driven beats, the writing was top notch and Rufus Hound killed it. My favorite this season so far.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Solid.
There were some good character moments throughout the episode, although the plot was kind of slight at times, and nothing ever felt particularly great. It was definitely an enjoyable episode, however, and a good way of following up to last week's episode and dealing with the fallout.
I had a big grin on my face at the reference to The Visitation.
There were some good character moments throughout the episode, although the plot was kind of slight at times, and nothing ever felt particularly great. It was definitely an enjoyable episode, however, and a good way of following up to last week's episode and dealing with the fallout.
I had a big grin on my face at the reference to The Visitation.
Pretty good episode. Nice character driven story without going completely over-the-top.
Kind of interesting that Ashildr has become the "companion's guardian". Makes me wonder if she watched over the companions that came before Twelve.
Lion man was weird, especially when he breathed fire.
Next week though, Zygons!
Kind of interesting that Ashildr has become the "companion's guardian". Makes me wonder if she watched over the companions that came before Twelve.
Lion man was weird, especially when he breathed fire.
Next week though, Zygons!
ClivePwned
Member
Have you by any chance seen Terror of the Zygons? It's mostly good apart
from a short special effect at the very end that almost undoes the whole thing.
GodParticle
Member
That was pretty boring outside of GoT girl. Interested to see how she plays into future events
The thing about the promo:
In the anniversary episode, Osgood was the only one/pair that knew who was human and who was Zygon because of the inhaler. If this takes place after Death in Heaven, there'll be only one who knows who she is. If before, there could be two. It is odd, though, since the Zygon should have lost the image after a short time.
Beaniedude
Member
I thought it was alright.
I'm still unsure of what happened to Leo the Lion at the end there. Did he get vaporised? Was he transported back to his planet?
He just kind of turned gold and then disappeared.
I'm still unsure of what happened to Leo the Lion at the end there. Did he get vaporised? Was he transported back to his planet?
He just kind of turned gold and then disappeared.
The implication was his people played by Bond villain rules and vaporized him for his failure.
WrenchNinja
Member
Enjoyed it. Hope Maise shows up for more episodes.
Plot was secondary to characters, again. Like The Girl Who Died. And I didn't mind that at all.
I was half-expecting the Doctor to take Ashildr to the 21st century, but I'm glad he just let her go on living.
Maisie Williams did a good job with her role. For someone who looks very young, she was able to carry the weight of someone that's supposed to be 800 years old. Not to the level Matt Smith was maybe able to portray the 900+ year-old Doctor, but she did just fine.
The banter with Sam Swift before the hanging was hilarious. Didn't think a dick joke would ever crack Doctor Who, and here we are.
I appreciate the Captain Jack mention, too.
Next episode:
I was half-expecting the Doctor to take Ashildr to the 21st century, but I'm glad he just let her go on living.
Maisie Williams did a good job with her role. For someone who looks very young, she was able to carry the weight of someone that's supposed to be 800 years old. Not to the level Matt Smith was maybe able to portray the 900+ year-old Doctor, but she did just fine.
The banter with Sam Swift before the hanging was hilarious. Didn't think a dick joke would ever crack Doctor Who, and here we are.
I appreciate the Captain Jack mention, too.
Next episode:
REBECCA FRONT! I'm hoping to see some banter between her and Capaldi. I'd lose it if Harness worked in a reference from The Thick of It somehow.
Was alright. It wasn't a super cohesive episode, the lion man plot was whatever and the whole ep did feel like it had a weird tone.
Two biggest takeaways from it are that it establishes Maisie Williams as a recurring character that can pop in whenever she's not filming Game of Thrones and the last look of the Doctor to Clara, just a bit grim since we all know she's leaving this season and they just had a whole ep about people you love dying. At this point where Clara's character is at, nothing would make her leave the Tardis willingly, so I see another bad end for her as a companion.
Two biggest takeaways from it are that it establishes Maisie Williams as a recurring character that can pop in whenever she's not filming Game of Thrones and the last look of the Doctor to Clara, just a bit grim since we all know she's leaving this season and they just had a whole ep about people you love dying. At this point where Clara's character is at, nothing would make her leave the Tardis willingly, so I see another bad end for her as a companion.
a secret-boss
Banned
I like it.
tackling the Doctor's decision from previous episode. We cured her only to rid of his guilt only to wash his hands after it's done
did they ever explain when Clara was a Dalek during Matt's Doctor run?
tackling the Doctor's decision from previous episode. We cured her only to rid of his guilt only to wash his hands after it's done
did they ever explain when Clara was a Dalek during Matt's Doctor run?
tonysidaway
Member
I assume the Dalek Oswin Oswald, Soufflé Girl, is one of Clara's splinters, which are shown throughout his history trying to attract Doctor Who's attention and help him on his way. In this instance the splinter, which isn't really Clara, succeeds in contacting him but at a tragic cost. The Mary Poppins version of Clara in that Christmas episode is a similar tragic success, and another splinter is also shown directing Who 1 and Susan to a different TARDIS on Gallifrey, "Sorry. But youre about to make a very big mistake. Dont steal that one, steal this one. The navigation system's knackered, but you'll have much more fun."
The splinters all originate from the incident in which Clara leaps after the Great Intelligence (Richard E Grant) into Doctor Who's timeline, in The Name of the Doctor.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I liked this a lot! If anything, it could have easily been a radio drama. Which I guess could be a basis for criticism, in that you don't really need the visuals for the story to work as it does, and not needing visuals is kind of a problem if you're a television show. But still - I liked how talky it was, and I liked the people doing all the talking (except for the firebreathing cat thing, but he was an afterthought, mostly, so whatever).
I don't think there's a single episode I've had serious problems with this season, and I'm really enjoying Capaldi in the role.
There were like, three of em in there, weren't there? At least two.
Better than the sonic screwdriver boner-take with Jenny in Season 7.
I don't think there's a single episode I've had serious problems with this season, and I'm really enjoying Capaldi in the role.
There were like, three of em in there, weren't there? At least two.
Better than the sonic screwdriver boner-take with Jenny in Season 7.
Yeah, at least a couple. But the one was pretty in-your-face. It was hilarious for how grim the setting was.
It was OK, but it felt more like a stage play than a sci-fi TV show. It was about 95% dialogue. Sometimes I think the writers really get off track with the rule of "show, don't tell".
And I hate to say this because I really enjoy her, but I don't think Maisie Williams' flat performance captured the essence of "pretending not to care".
And I hate to say this because I really enjoy her, but I don't think Maisie Williams' flat performance captured the essence of "pretending not to care".
mightynine
Member
I didn't want Maisie and the Doctor to stop talking. Seriously, I would've been fine with the two of them sitting at that table for 40+ minutes.
Two thoughts:
1) I liked it a LOT. It was what Girl Who Died should have been, almost entirely character drama and comparatively little silliness. Maisie was fantastic and more than made up for being wasted last week. Tregenna back next series plz.
2) You know how some people say Vincent and the Doctor would have been better without the monster? This episode definitely would have been better without the monster. At least Vincent had the excuse that it was symbolic of his depression.
Oh, and do we have .gifs of the 'no puns' and 'I have thoughts on banter' bits? I have a friend who could do to see those, I think.
EDIT: And the fucking Zygons next week written by Peter Harness. I am so hyped.
1) I liked it a LOT. It was what Girl Who Died should have been, almost entirely character drama and comparatively little silliness. Maisie was fantastic and more than made up for being wasted last week. Tregenna back next series plz.
2) You know how some people say Vincent and the Doctor would have been better without the monster? This episode definitely would have been better without the monster. At least Vincent had the excuse that it was symbolic of his depression.
Oh, and do we have .gifs of the 'no puns' and 'I have thoughts on banter' bits? I have a friend who could do to see those, I think.
EDIT: And the fucking Zygons next week written by Peter Harness. I am so hyped.
Yeah this is pretty much how I felt. It was okay but a little dull and it felt like not a lot happened. Your description of the episode as a stage play feels pretty spot on.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
A bit slower, could have done without the house robbing shenanigans, but another episode I really liked. Not a terrible one yet so far.