Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons

APZonerunner said:
The loop stuff is pretty common in this show, really. I mean... Bad Wolf? Rose is led to the solution by a message future her scatters throughout time to follow her and the Doctor around. That's the earliest modern show example.
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I thought the original implication of that was that Bad Wolf Corporation was the start point there, the original source of the term.

AT least, that's my headcanon!
 
Razmos said:
Next episode doesn't really look like my cup of tea, but I am curious about Maisie William's character.
Didn't they show her in the trailer in a highwayman-like getup? yet here she is a viking girl.

Is she playing 2 different characters in different times?


Mysterious!
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She's in both The GIrl Who Died and The Woman Who Lived? Since it's not a conventional two parter, but they're still connected in some way. It looks like she's playing a different role in each.
 
CrimsonFist said:
She's in both The GIrl Who Died and The Woman Who Lived? Since it's not a conventional two parter, but they're still connected in some way. It looks like she's playing a different role in each.
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Ah I didn't realize it was the same 2 parter.

THEORY TIME
She dies at the end of The Girl Who Died, the Doctor is really sad about it, but he and Clara continue adventuring and somehow encounter her again far into the future
It's an interesting idea, but it was already done with Clara so.. eh.
 
Razmos said:
Next episode doesn't really look like my cup of tea, but I am curious about Maisie William's character.
Didn't they show her in the trailer in a highwayman-like getup? yet here she is a viking girl.

Is she playing 2 different characters in different times?


Mysterious!
Click to expand...
Cloud Atlas
 
mclem said:
I thought the original implication of that was that Bad Wolf Corporation was the start point there, the original source of the term.

AT least, that's my headcanon!
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Well, that part is up for debate - if the corporation 'existed' with that name pre-Rose - but Rose obviously scattered every other mention throughout the universe, that makes it clear - so it's the same sort of paradox in that she leads herself to the conclusion which in turn leads her to create it, etc.
 
VAD said:
I still can't deal with the Sonic Sunglasses...
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Looking at the YT comments, Moffat definitely did it to fuck with people
KuGsj.gif
 
I wasn't on board with the sonic sunglasses until the Doctor stuck them into the computer port in tonight's episode. That's the kind of daft I can get behind.

Brilliant episode - really nailed the landing from last week in a way I never expected, which is brilliant. The Scottish Cold War training ground felt like something the Seventh Doctor would have had a whole adventure in. Just a fucking great aesthetic to the whole thing.
 
zeemumu said:
Someone explain that last part when the Doctor said
"when did I first have those ideas"
to me, please.
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Its basically the two messages the ghost doctor said had no origin. Its just appeared and said it with no idea who came up with idea for the messages. It was just predetermined to happen by an unknown composer like the idea of who composed Beethoven 5th
 
I always just assume that any casual loop like that in fiction is a result of many, many iterations with a less favourable outcome slowly converging on a steady-state loop.
 
It was pretty good, but I felt it didn't feel as consistently great as the first part. I'd rate it just a little bit below it. The pacing felt odd though - it seemed to waste time at parts such as the Doctor trying to console Clara about his death - I know by then he didn't know that was a hologram, but still, it seemed like spending too much time on something we already knew would not happen. That and O'Donell's death, which seemed kinda pointless and unnecessary - it seems like every Doctor fanboy is destined to die in this show.

Plenty to love though. The Fisher King looked pretty awesome even if in the end he was pretty easy to fool/defeat and the show loves its clunky-moving monsters a bit too much (and from the preview it looks like the next monster batch is no different), the well-executed ontological paradox is surprisingly refreshing in a show that's about time travelling, the mission's crew continued to be interesting characters - I didn't get the complaints about them being bland in the previous episode, the "Doctor was in the box all along" reveal was predictable but cool and the humor continues to be pretty spot on.

Oh, and the intro was amazing. I love the guitar-backed intro, I'm guessing it's a one-off thing because they just played it over the regular intro.
 
Really liked this episode. The intro was great, but I agree that it could be moved closer to the end to avoid spoiling the twist, even if it was predictable anyway.

I liked that they bothered with little things like the missing battery exploding the dam and causing the flood (I originally thought one of the crew members stole it because they made a point about it being either rare or expensive, iirc).

They apparently did forget about Fisher King killing O'Donnel in the loop though. Either I missed something or the Doctor went to confront him right after they saw her alive near the ship, and when the Fisher King exited the building, he was killed by the water.
 
Solid ending to the two-parter. Explaining the paradox at the beginning gave me serious 90s kids TV show vibes (breaking the fourth wall and talking directly to the audience, a la Clarissa Explains It All and similar shows). Guitar opening was awesome.

Monster was okay, but I think the bigger point of the episode was to tell a story set up within the realm of a paradox. That was smart.

Cass was well-handled. I liked that she ended up going solo and escaping. The way she figured out she was being followed was well thought-out.

Solid two-part episode by Whithouse.
 
Fireblend said:
it seemed to waste time at parts such as the Doctor trying to console Clara about his death - I know by then he didn't know that was a hologram, but still, it seemed like spending too much time on something we already knew would not happen.
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I saw that more as foreshadowing of Clara's departure, last week there was the conversations about Clara going native and in this episode she confirms what we all knew, that she's using the travels with the Doctor to escape real life, that her life with the Doctor is now everything and that she can't go back to her normal existence.

Those scenes in both episodes are building towards something, and I wouldn't be surprised to see more scenes like that woven into the story as the series progresses and as Clara continues to get worse.
 
I really liked that episode. The cold open was really cool, I hope they do more stuff like that where the doctor sets some 4th wall breaking premise for the episode
 
Pretty good episode. Nothing revolutionary, but I enjoyed this two parter a good amount. There were definitely some good scenes here, especially the bit with Cass being followed and not being able to hear.

Ultimately, a pretty traditional Doctor Who type story, although it was executed on fairly well. I could have done with a slightly stronger ending, but aside from that the story was pretty good.
 
zeemumu said:
Someone explain that last part when the Doctor said
"when did I first have those ideas"
to me, please.
Click to expand...

it's basically the same thing he was talking about regarding Beethoven in the beginning

if you loved Beethoven and went back in time to find there IS no Beethoven, then you publish "his" works from the future under his name, who originally wrote Beethoven's fifth?

if the Doctor only created the hologram because he saw the hologram's existence in the future, where did the idea for the hologram come for in the first place?

it's essentially a time paradox built on self-creating information
 
I thought that was a fantastic episode and really made part 1 better.

Loved the intro with the Doctor talking directly to the camera. Liked the other characters better with them split up in two different time periods. Fisher King was a cool monster design even if it was a bit underutilized.

I do wish they'd have the theme with the middle 8 in the end credits after a 2-parter is over.

Next week is the Jamie Mathieson-penned episode so that should be good as well.
 
Very enjoyable episode.
Really liked the Fisher King's design. Shame he's a one-and-done character as I would like to see more of him. Somehow.

Very nice use of time travel too.
 
Now that's some DOCTOR WHO

I really, really, REALLY liked that. I'm pretty sure that two parter was my favorite thing they've done with Capaldi, actually.
 
Razmos said:
At least he's still alive. It's always possible he could return at a later time.


Speaking of people returning though, it would be so awesome if The Fisher King came back as a recurring villain. He looks scary with a great design, he's deadly, he can create ghosts, he has the villain monologue down and The Doctor fundamentally opposes what he does on a moral and time lord level.

I bet they could do a lot of interesting things with the ghosts too, and having them as a recurring monster would be excellent.
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He knows what a time lord is, and the whole thing was set inside a paradox. I would honestly be surprised if he didn't return. I mean, who told him to go to Earth?
Could some other dastardly time missy possibly be involved? nah.
That speech also seemed personal for just any random character. I could be misreading everything here, please don't get excited.
(does Final Fantasy XV even have a release yet or do I need a TARDIS for that? I'll just go straight to 2029, either they have it or Skynet is running amok. Either or. )

I do like how they weaved in a deaf actress without it being out of place. The only other time I've seen a deaf actress (not sure if gender is coincidence here, but oh well) in a high-profile show was The West Wing.
Dialogue seemed more on point in the second part too.
 
lovely episode. I really like these 2 parters because it gives them real room to breath and expand on ideas and feelings. It really made part 1 better.
 
So the album cover for Beethoven's 5th that he is holding up has a dot, dot, dot, dash -- the basic beat of the movement. That's also Morse Code for V. V is Roman for 5. Yet... Morse Code was invented after Beethoven's death but well within the Doctor's lifespan. So perhaps he really is Beethoven!

Or, more likely, it is a coincidence or V was intentionally given the dot, dot, dot, dash pattern that matches the beat because it would have been a very well-known piece of music at the time the code was invented. =)
 
oh yeah, minister of war drop. Immediately followed by small 'bigger on the inside' moment. I like how efficient they dealt with that thing (and the guy commenting on his first alien). By the way: is that town set a real location (in the UK, Scotland) by any chance? I can imagine it being in Eastern Europe, but I thought this show was UK-US in terms of locations.
 
Freeza Under The Shower said:
oh yeah, minister of war drop. Immediately followed by small 'bigger on the inside' moment. I like how efficient they dealt with that thing (and the guy commenting on his first alien). By the way: is that town set a real location (in the UK, Scotland) by any chance? I can imagine it being in Eastern Europe, but I thought this show was UK-US in terms of locations.
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It's set in Caithness which is a county in Scotland, but the dam and town are fictional from what I can gather.
 
I don't think I enjoyed that as much as part 1, but it was fun enough and didn't ruin the last episode which is about all I can ask for. That intro was wonderful though.

Unfortunately at this point in the show I'm not sure it's worth trying to pretend the Doctor still cares about protecting timelines. This feels like it comes up three times a season. Unless this is an attempt to communicate that the show is now moving away from the deus ex of the week again.

It is funny though how this story aims small and manages to put forth more effort in trying to have it make sense than most big "timey-wimey" episodes, and yet literally throws its hands up in the air at the end rather than pull some bullshit out of its ass for the sake of "he's the Doctor, deal with it." Somehow that's more satisfying.

Overall I do think this is probably my favorite story for Capaldi's Doctor so far.
 
Decent episode, but the Fisher King's plan made no sense. He had access to a working spaceship and a cowardly pilot to fly it for him, why not just fly to wherever his mates were hanging out?
 
KuwabaraTheMan said:
Pretty good episode. Nothing revolutionary, but I enjoyed this two parter a good amount. There were definitely some good scenes here, especially the bit with Cass being followed and not being able to hear.

Ultimately, a pretty traditional Doctor Who type story, although it was executed on fairly well. I could have done with a slightly stronger ending, but aside from that the story was pretty good.
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The postivity is so surprising to hear from you! Feels nice sometimes haha
 
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