When I think back to this season I'll always mourn the fact this idea was dropped:
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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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infiniteloop
Member
Yeah, and people would've complained that Moffat is forcing the arc into every story like they did with The Crack.
Fuck, I had assumed that the second flash of Richard E. Grant in the preview indicated that he WAS going to be in the finale, but I guess it's probably just a clip from the christmas special. Fuck fuck fuck.
He was in the first episode of 7b too. It's definitely back.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Those people had stupid complaints then, and they would have had stupid complaints now.
Well he could be, I have no knowledge of the finale yet so...
Rubbish King
The gift that keeps on giving
Am I watching the fucking sarah jane chronicles?!
Does nobody else think this series has been awwwwful?
Does nobody else think this series has been awwwwful?
APZonerunner
Member
True enough, but I think a valuable lesson RTD learned after Bad Wolf - where it made sense - was that the arc needn't be everywhere. Saxon is only in the earth-based episodes. Torchwood similarly doesn't appear everywhere. Both get important drops in Tooth and Claw and Lazarus experiment, and then vague updates in 42 and Love & Monsters (lol) as well as brief mentions in other episodes, but generally they're otherwise largely absent from the series. Series 4's arc was even more loosely framed.
The crack was back to Bad Wolf stuff, but like that it did sort of make sense; the crack is 'everywhere' and all that. I don't think it was ever quite explained why it appears where it does, though. Is it everywhere? Is it following the Doctor? With Bad Wolf it is obvious that Rose littered it across their path deliberately, as a message to herself - so it makes sense that it is everywhere, even in the Ninth Doctor/Rose novels. The logic of how the crack gets to where it ends up is never really explained, which is part of what aggravates people, I think.
It was also less subtle, I suppose. Stuff like "Zoom through the TARDIS lock and OMG THERE'S A CRACK" and "Wide shot of the space ship, zoom in OMG A CRACK" really feels like a hamfisted way to force the crack into Vampires of Venice by comparison to a throwaway line "How's things going at Torchwood, mate?" (Rise of the Cybermen) or Bad Wolf being written in German on the side of the bomb in The Empty Child.
The moments when the crack appeared and was important was great; they should've erased all those other bloody cracks and just kept it in The Eleventh Hour, Flesh and Stone and Cold Blood - Series 5 would've been better for it. The ending of Cold Blood is absolutely wonderful and brilliant arc stuff. That was great; really gave the whole arc some weight.
Hot Coldman
Banned
The crack were appearing everywhere. Hence why Amy couldn't remember the Daleks, hence why every race with access to time travel and then some colluded to stop the Doctor- because the cracks were wiping them slowly from existence. There's no logic to how the cracks appear, no, but there's no logic to why water goes where it does when you pop a water balloon either.
No. No-one else thinks this at all, Tash. Especially not people who have posted on this very page. ;p
No. No-one else thinks this at all, Tash. Especially not people who have posted on this very page. ;p
This season has been hit or miss for me. But I think Doctor Who has kind of always been that way. Even the misses are some guaranteed zany sci-fi so I don't complain too often.
Rubbish King
The gift that keeps on giving
Well I am dissapoint.
I haven't found it this boring ever, I find it hard just to watch a full episode without pausing it, I used to fucking love this shit, by the end of the episode I wss already counting the minutes untill the next one but I wouldn't have even remembered it was on this week if somebody hadnt mentioned it at the pub last night
APZonerunner
Member
I edited my post a bit, but:
It was also less subtle, I suppose. Stuff like "Zoom through the TARDIS lock and OMG THERE'S A CRACK" and "Wide shot of the space ship, zoom in OMG A CRACK" really feels like a hamfisted way to force the crack into Vampires of Venice or Victory of the Daleks by comparison to a throwaway line "How's things going at Torchwood, mate?" (Rise of the Cybermen) or Bad Wolf being written in German on the side of the bomb (The Empty Child) or "Pyrovillia is lost!" (Fires of Pompeii) as those references to the crack have literally jack shit to do with the actual story they're in. Many of the bad wolf references were like that, but they were also much less "I'M HITTING YOU OVER THE HEAD WITH THIS BRICK. CAN YOU FEEL IT?" It's the equivalent in some cases of if they'd done a close-up shot on the bomb showing the words in TEC; in the case of Bad Wolf it was everywhere but people actually had to search for it a bit.
I still think the crack is brilliant, but, yeah. The moments when the crack appeared and was important was great; they should've erased all those other bloody cracks and just kept it in The Eleventh Hour, Flesh and Stone and Cold Blood. Those scenes with the crack in those two-parters are tense as fuck, really brilliant. Series 5's arc would have been stronger if it had just been those appearances. The ending of Cold Blood is absolutely wonderful and brilliant arc stuff. That was great; really gave the whole arc some weight.
Well I am dissapoint.
I haven't found it this boring ever, I find it hard just to watch a full episode without pausing it, I used to fucking love this shit, by the end of the episode I wss already counting the minutes untill the next one but I wouldn't have even remembered it was on this week if somebody hadnt mentioned it at the pub last night
I found myself constantly checking how many minutes were left while watching the most recent episode as I just wanted it to be over and done with, if that makes you feel any better. Who has never done this to me before.
No, it's from the finale methinks. I don't remember him saying that in the Christmas special.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I get that. Valid complaint! I think they'd have been smarter to include things missing that shouldn't be missing in the other episodes. The Eleventh Hour's "why is there a duck pond with no ducks?" was a great example of that, and didn't require a ruddy great crack showing near the duck pond to explain it either. That was a cool moment because it got you scratching your head as to why they'd make a point about a duckless duck pond and never really refer back to it, but by "Time of Angels" you could figure it out yourself.
Seven Force
Banned
To be honest, the cracks did nothing for me until the TARDIS' involvement with them were revealed.
I kind of prefer the throwaway lines and the blink and you miss it background easter eggs that Series 1-4 employed.
I kind of prefer the throwaway lines and the blink and you miss it background easter eggs that Series 1-4 employed.
It was both actually, I guess Moffat wasn't 100% sure of how the Silence thing would pan out at that point because the conversation doesn't make much sense in hindsight:
The Doctor: Why are you here?
Rosanna: We ran from the Silence. Why are you here?
The Doctor: Wedding present. The Silence?
Rosanna: There were cracks. Some were tiny. Some were as big as the sky. Through some we saw worlds, and people. And through others we saw silence. And the end of all things. We fled to a nation like ours. And the crack snapped shut behind us. Saturnyne was lost.
The Doctor: So Earth is to become Saturnyne mark two.
Sounds like they found out about the Silence and jumped into a crack to escape from them or something like that.
Keyser Soze
Member
This could work well at E3!
APZonerunner
Member
I'd forgotten about that, but,yeah - that stuff is great. Absolutely fine. The weird lock thing at the end of the episode is just bad and weirdly out of place, I think. More than anything I think it betrayed a nervousness from the production team that the arc wouldn't stick and the general public would need a weekly reminder of the ongoing mystery - everyone was taken off-guard by how Bad Wolf was even being debated in the newspapers during Series 1, and everything since then has been an attempt to replicate that, Saxon I think being the most successful.
The same thing is happening this series, with episodes 'needing' their requisite 'the Doctor monologues about Clara' sequence, but again, at least they're integrated into the story properly, so I can 100% get behind that, and think it's the best part of how this arc has been executed.
Except the references to Bad Wolf were lesser in number, the Doctor and Rose asked logical questions and reacted in an understandable ways to them and ultimately its payed off very satisfyingly in the finale.
The cracks were caused by an exploding Tardis (probably), which exploded through...something...and because...something about Silence falling. Which a year later we were told was to do with a question being asked and then told to wait a further year to see something with Trenzalore which, if early reports are true, doesn't really address cracks nor exploding Tardis' nor even the Silence.
It just introduces another baddie race in the Whispering people, more River, a girl we've just been told is 'mysterious' which will be explained in the space of 45min and a lead in to the 50th...
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Don't compare this crap to the Sarah Jane Adventures. Every season of that show was better than this garbage.
Besides the episodes with the Slitheen/Blathereen.
Keyser Soze
Member
Everyone is angry :/
Look, a cool image!!
Look, a cool image!!
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
The Lost Boy was an incredible story. The other Slitheen episodes were pretty dire, though.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Everyone is angry :/
Look, a cool image!!
Lol that Sylvester McCoy mugshot is so smug
APZonerunner
Member
"Thousands" of copies sent by BBC America, apparently. If it doesn't leak tonight, it sure will after Monday morning's post.
It's this one, isn't it? I think. Now that you mention it, something does seem off about it... http://media.tumblr.com/a16f233c71ba83da5434c86a5af03762/tumblr_inline_mmatyxxijL1r9ixyz.jpg
It's this one, isn't it? I think. Now that you mention it, something does seem off about it... http://media.tumblr.com/a16f233c71ba83da5434c86a5af03762/tumblr_inline_mmatyxxijL1r9ixyz.jpg
Keyser Soze
Member
People assume production lines are a strict progression of print and release, but actually from BBC America's viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
For a stupid mistake, this is a biggy. Someone is going to get fired.
Hot Coldman
Banned
People assume production lines are a strict progression of print and release, but actually from BBC America's viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
Ahahahaha. Nice work.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Not that I can find.
Commander Jameson
Member
Everyone is angry :/
Look, a cool image!!
Do we know what that gap is between 10 and 11 with the odd green light to the side?
APZonerunner
Member
It's the RTD era TARDIS console; that's a clip of the 10-11 regeneration.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Ah. Now I see it. Thank you.
Robin64
Member
Everyone is angry :/
Look, a cool image!!
Why the gap between 10 and 11?
infiniteloop
Member
Nope, not seen it yet.
Commander Jameson
Member
Excellent. Thanks.
Just rewatched it and I see it now (around the 58s mark).
10th to 11th regeneration clip
Still, feels a bit odd to have that particular regeneration in there...
What. Bad Wolf makes far far less sense than the cracks. For one thing, it doesn't affect anything they do at any point whatsoever, except that in the end Rose somehow knows that it was a message she was leaving for herself for some inexplicable reason and that means she should look into the heart of the tardis and become a god so she can leave herself an inexplicable message so she knows she should become a god...
And then it apparently WASN'T what she really meant, she meant the Doctor should go to Bad Wolf Bay a couple years later. Not that it was mentioned ever again between the first and the second meaning at all, but apparently if you just don't mention a mystery for 2 years before finally resolving it that's better than acknowledging that it's still somewhat open.
I mean, it's fine to forgive predestination paradoxes in Who. They're practically its bread and butter. But it's just silly to pretend that it's ok one time and bad writing another.
It's a brief look at the regeneration from Ten-->Eleven. Hard to tell but I can see it after someone else pointed it out.
EDIT: Derp, someone else already said this.
Keyser Soze
Member
No.
Stuff got shipped this morning (from Amazon I think). If so, then it just takes one person with Prime (one day shipping / same day shipping in some places) to toss it up
I have a #doctorwho search on Twitter going to see what is happening - and it feels like a minefield
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Rose didn't know that Bad Wolf was a message left for herself when she looked into the heart of the TARDIS. She only found that out afterwards. But she knew that seeing Bad Wolf spread out across of all of time and space meant that there was still a way for her to interact with the future, so she opened the heart of the TARDIS because she had already seen the power that had in the previous story.
As far as I can recall, there was nothing about Bad Wolf Bay having anything to do with that message. It was just an amusing coincidence that they wound up meeting again on a beach in Norway that happened to translate to Bad Wolf.
APZonerunner
Member
It must have shipped Friday, as the cock-up is one very specific store - the official BBC America one! It is NOT Amazon, and BBCA have locked it down now, so don't go ordering to try to get it early. The guy received it and posted the image on line on Saturday, but it didn't really get noticed 'til today.
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