-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
- Start date
- Status
infiniteloop
Member
list wars! list wars!
If it makes you feel better, we don't need much provoking. If you sneeze in this place, someone will start ranking their favorite Doctor Who sneezing moments.
Future Foundation
Member
BBC America's been running a mini marathon: Beast Below, Victory of the Daleks, Time of the Angels, & Flesh and Stone.
I just remembered that part of TotA and Flesh and Stone were filmed at the same beach they did Bad Wolf Bay. Then I remembered that a lot of Tenth Doctor fans were being dicks about wanting Eleven to "degenerate" into Ten. I can't imagine how bad it got when people recognized where they were.
I just remembered that part of TotA and Flesh and Stone were filmed at the same beach they did Bad Wolf Bay. Then I remembered that a lot of Tenth Doctor fans were being dicks about wanting Eleven to "degenerate" into Ten. I can't imagine how bad it got when people recognized where they were.
APZonerunner
Member
Eh, that beach has been used tons, don't think it's really of any significance, really. It's the engine room in Dinosaurs this year, too. We'll get the same BS with 11 when he goes, anyway.
CharminUltra
Member
Oh yay, peeked in just in time for list wars.
5 > 6 > 7 > 4 > 1 > 2 > 3
5 > 6 > 7 > 4 > 1 > 2 > 3
I think I can agree with this, though I'd probably flip 6 & 7.
People hate change bro
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Link
The Autumn Wind
Forgive me if this has been mentioned, but I've been avoiding this thread on account of spoilers. I noticed my DVR was not scheduled to record the finale, and when I checked the guide, it's listed as a repeat for whatever reason. I have Comcast, but you should all double check your DVRs and manually set the recording if needed.
Hot Coldman
Banned
list wars
5 > 3 > 2 > 6 = 7 > 1 > 4
5 > 3 > 2 > 6 = 7 > 1 > 4
StalkerUKCG
Banned
4 > 2 > 7 > 6 > 5 > 1 > 3
Come at me
Come at me
Keyser Soze
Member
Still no leak! Moffat is pleased!
Will Moffat now show emotion that is joy?
Will Moffat now show emotion that is joy?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Not that different from mine. I used a lot of equals signs on the last page, but if I absolutely had to rank them it would be like 4 > 7 > 2 > 5 > 1 > 3 > 6
Surprising considering how many copies were apparently sent out, bit of a shame too, my fiancée is away this weekend and we've always watched Doctor Who together so I was kind of hoping it would leak.
I did of course tell her that if it was any other episode and not the finale before the 50th I would wait till she was home, but there's no way I'm not watching this on Saturday, lol.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Series 4: Best companion certainly helps this one a lot. An all around excellent set of episodes as well, I honestly don't think there's a truly bad one in the entire season, which makes it prctically unique. Sontaran Stratagem and Doctor's Daughter are basically mediocre, and everything else was pretty great. This is the series that gave us The Library, Midnight, Fires of Pompei, and Planet of the Ood.
Series 7: I think that the focus on individual stories really helped this series for me. It felt very premise driven (what if the Dalek's had an insane asylum? What if an Ice Warrior wound up on a submarine?) and I've really enjoyed most of the results. The Christmas special kinda sucked and all Akhaten had going for it was aesthetics, but thats about it.
Series 2: Okay, it has the two worst standalone episodes of the revival (note the qualifier) but it also gave us The Satan Pit, School Reunion, and Doomsday. Overall decently strong.
Series 5: this is where the really mixed feelings start to come in. The finale was excellent, and the primary reason why this season is this high. Amy's Choice is also pretty good, although not quite as good as mindfucky episodes like Blink or Midnight. Everything else is kinda forgettable, aside from, of course, Vincent and the Doctor, which I continue to think is just decent.
Series 1: Okay, as the first series it did an admirable job, and they did really well with the budget they had, but again outside of the finale and a few choice episodes (The Empty Child, Dalek, maybe Father's Day) this one doesn't have a whole lot that sticks in memory.
Series 3: Man, Martha really deserved better. Gridlock is great, and of course there's Blink, and Family of Blood is a wonderful story, but aside from that this season has basically nothing. 42 is alright I guess? Utopia and The Sound of Drums would be alright if their setup actually concluded in a good way.
Series 6: The Doctor's Wife is amazing. I really love The Rebel Flesh. Its not enough. The premiere episodes are in and of themselves very well done, but they are completely soured by how poorly the resolution of the Doctor's death is handled compared to how it was set up. Everything else is either straight up bad (Anything with River's story) or just kind of dull versions of thematic tones we've hit before, like Curse of the Black Spot or Night Terrors. This series more then any other really feels like it was missing the sci-fi stuff that I enjoy. Yes, episodes like A Good Man Goes to War technically employed a sci-fi aesthetic, but it's not the same thing as actually exploring a premise. The Girl Who Waited is just about the only speculative fiction episode in the series (aside from the aforementioned excellent Rebel Flesh)
Series 7: I think that the focus on individual stories really helped this series for me. It felt very premise driven (what if the Dalek's had an insane asylum? What if an Ice Warrior wound up on a submarine?) and I've really enjoyed most of the results. The Christmas special kinda sucked and all Akhaten had going for it was aesthetics, but thats about it.
Series 2: Okay, it has the two worst standalone episodes of the revival (note the qualifier) but it also gave us The Satan Pit, School Reunion, and Doomsday. Overall decently strong.
Series 5: this is where the really mixed feelings start to come in. The finale was excellent, and the primary reason why this season is this high. Amy's Choice is also pretty good, although not quite as good as mindfucky episodes like Blink or Midnight. Everything else is kinda forgettable, aside from, of course, Vincent and the Doctor, which I continue to think is just decent.
Series 1: Okay, as the first series it did an admirable job, and they did really well with the budget they had, but again outside of the finale and a few choice episodes (The Empty Child, Dalek, maybe Father's Day) this one doesn't have a whole lot that sticks in memory.
Series 3: Man, Martha really deserved better. Gridlock is great, and of course there's Blink, and Family of Blood is a wonderful story, but aside from that this season has basically nothing. 42 is alright I guess? Utopia and The Sound of Drums would be alright if their setup actually concluded in a good way.
Series 6: The Doctor's Wife is amazing. I really love The Rebel Flesh. Its not enough. The premiere episodes are in and of themselves very well done, but they are completely soured by how poorly the resolution of the Doctor's death is handled compared to how it was set up. Everything else is either straight up bad (Anything with River's story) or just kind of dull versions of thematic tones we've hit before, like Curse of the Black Spot or Night Terrors. This series more then any other really feels like it was missing the sci-fi stuff that I enjoy. Yes, episodes like A Good Man Goes to War technically employed a sci-fi aesthetic, but it's not the same thing as actually exploring a premise. The Girl Who Waited is just about the only speculative fiction episode in the series (aside from the aforementioned excellent Rebel Flesh)
infiniteloop
Member
I still think it could leak Friday if UKers get early deliveries.
equippedwithtowel
Member
As a whole series
5>4>2>1>7?>3>6
Just off the top 3-4 episodes
3>2>1>6>5>4>7
Seven could shit the bed or be vaulted into the top three. It only takes one killer finale.
5>4>2>1>7?>3>6
Just off the top 3-4 episodes
3>2>1>6>5>4>7
Seven could shit the bed or be vaulted into the top three. It only takes one killer finale.
Seven Force
Banned
5 > 3 > 4 > 1 > 7 > 2 > 6
Series 5 was great. Not perfect, but probably the most solid run in my opinion. Seemed like Moffat was having one hell of a good time being in charge of that one.
Yeah, yeah, Last of the Time Lords is awful, and would probably bring down the list into the bottom three, if not for that amazing stretch that started with Human Nature and ended with Sound of Drums. I really like Gridlock, too.
Series 4 is where it's at just because I like Donna a lot, to be honest. The Library two-parter and Midnight are fantastic, too.
I wasn't really sure where to place 1, but I know I liked it more than the bottom three.
7 can go in any direction right now. Depends on how the finale plays out.
Despite having my favorite episode of NuWho (The Girl in the Fireplace), I don't like Series 2 all, that one episode and School Reunion excepted.
I'm not a fan of Series 6 at all, but at least it has The Doctors Wife.
Series 5 was great. Not perfect, but probably the most solid run in my opinion. Seemed like Moffat was having one hell of a good time being in charge of that one.
Yeah, yeah, Last of the Time Lords is awful, and would probably bring down the list into the bottom three, if not for that amazing stretch that started with Human Nature and ended with Sound of Drums. I really like Gridlock, too.
Series 4 is where it's at just because I like Donna a lot, to be honest. The Library two-parter and Midnight are fantastic, too.
I wasn't really sure where to place 1, but I know I liked it more than the bottom three.
7 can go in any direction right now. Depends on how the finale plays out.
Despite having my favorite episode of NuWho (The Girl in the Fireplace), I don't like Series 2 all, that one episode and School Reunion excepted.
I'm not a fan of Series 6 at all, but at least it has The Doctors Wife.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
For me, I would say: 4>3>1>5>2>6>7
First three are easy. Next two are pretty mixed seasons, and then it's just pick your poison for the final two.
Series 1 is probably more consistently good than 3 or 4, but I think the highs of those seasons (such as Gridlock, Planet of the Ood, Midnight and Turn Left) are generally better.
Series 2's highs exceed 5's, but it's lows are dire. The Idiot's Lantern is borderline unwatchable, and Fear Her is terminally boring.
First three are easy. Next two are pretty mixed seasons, and then it's just pick your poison for the final two.
Series 1 is probably more consistently good than 3 or 4, but I think the highs of those seasons (such as Gridlock, Planet of the Ood, Midnight and Turn Left) are generally better.
Series 2's highs exceed 5's, but it's lows are dire. The Idiot's Lantern is borderline unwatchable, and Fear Her is terminally boring.
equippedwithtowel
Member
The Impossible Planet is crying.
No. Whovians are really something else. If this was any other show it'd have been out by Monday everywhere.
After the amazingly surprising reveal of JLC in Asylum of the Daleks, I'm not so surprised it hasn't leaked at this point. Add to the "hundreds", not "thousands", of people who got their order early, you have fans who respect Moffat's wishes to keep things mum until Saturday, and those who just don't want to put the effort into something with little personal payoff.
Snytbaggen
Member
Or maybe so overwhelming that they fall into a coma?
Mine is much more likely <_<
Snytbaggen
Member
But I want to believe :<
5>6>4>3>1>2
1) Some pretty horrible episodes (aliens of london two-parter, end of the world, the long game) redeemed by the excellent Moffat two-parter, Dalek, Father's Day (to an extent) and RTD's best finale.
2) The only episode worth a damn is "the girl in the fireplace" - the impossible planet showed some promise and was genuinely perturbing at times but the satan pit throws all that out the window in the most artless way possible.
3) Some right stinkers (Daleks in Manhattan, The Shakespeare Code, The Lazarus Experiment) mixed in with the best episodes of the RTD era - Blink, Gridlock and The Human Nature two-parter. On average it probably isn't quite as accomplished as series 4.
4) Not as many standout episodes as season 3 but no egregiously horrible episodes either (the doctor's daughter and the unicorn and the wasp come close though), and the finale is slightly less offensive than last of the time lords.
5) For me the eleventh hour, time of angels / flesh and stone, amy's choice, vincent & the doctor and both episodes of the finale are god tier. There isn't a huge dud among the 13 episodes here and the progression of the arc was adroitly executed (and hasn't really been topped) - it always felt like season 5 was moving somewhere without becoming convoluted.
6) Moffat clearly overstretched himself with the ambitious arc as was evidenced in 6x13 - but that doesn't stop the opening two-parter, the doctor's wife, let's kill hitler, the god complex, and a girl who waited from being excellent (even if night terrors and closing time are the nadir of the moffat era so far).
1) Some pretty horrible episodes (aliens of london two-parter, end of the world, the long game) redeemed by the excellent Moffat two-parter, Dalek, Father's Day (to an extent) and RTD's best finale.
2) The only episode worth a damn is "the girl in the fireplace" - the impossible planet showed some promise and was genuinely perturbing at times but the satan pit throws all that out the window in the most artless way possible.
3) Some right stinkers (Daleks in Manhattan, The Shakespeare Code, The Lazarus Experiment) mixed in with the best episodes of the RTD era - Blink, Gridlock and The Human Nature two-parter. On average it probably isn't quite as accomplished as series 4.
4) Not as many standout episodes as season 3 but no egregiously horrible episodes either (the doctor's daughter and the unicorn and the wasp come close though), and the finale is slightly less offensive than last of the time lords.
5) For me the eleventh hour, time of angels / flesh and stone, amy's choice, vincent & the doctor and both episodes of the finale are god tier. There isn't a huge dud among the 13 episodes here and the progression of the arc was adroitly executed (and hasn't really been topped) - it always felt like season 5 was moving somewhere without becoming convoluted.
6) Moffat clearly overstretched himself with the ambitious arc as was evidenced in 6x13 - but that doesn't stop the opening two-parter, the doctor's wife, let's kill hitler, the god complex, and a girl who waited from being excellent (even if night terrors and closing time are the nadir of the moffat era so far).
peanutbutterlatte
Member
5>4>6>3>7>1>2
Moffatt does not shit gold people. The quality in 5-6-7 is as wildly variable as it was when RTD was running shop.
Moffatt does not shit gold people. The quality in 5-6-7 is as wildly variable as it was when RTD was running shop.
For me - his highs are higher and his lows aren't quite as low (yet...)
Agreed - which is a shame. Even if the finale is amazing I can't see that changing (the only episode I've loved is 7x01.)
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I think because he has such a high standard, any faults he might have in his run are magnified. With RTD, especially Series 2, it was a nice surprise when we got a really decent episode. But I mean, I like Last of the Time Lords, so I guess I'm alone in thinking the S5 finale was crap.
googleplex
Member
Any season with Donna Noble is automatically the best season. The fires of Pompeii was a great episode.
(YES YOU ARE ALONE IN THINKING THAT)
But I agree that average episodes are all the more salient in Moffat's run. Curse of the Black Spot for example is a perfectly serviceable tale, and would have fit in fine halfway through season 1,2, 3, or 4 - but because it followed the amazing impossible astronaut / day of the moon (which also left so many narrative threads hanging) it was subject to mass denigration and vitriol. I don't think we've had episodes in the Moffat run as bad as the worst in RTD's (fear her, love & monsters, the shakespeare code, the lazarus experiment, end of time part 1, end of the world, daleks in manhattan etc).
peanutbutterlatte
Member
wut. I really liked the Shakespeare Code. How is that not as bad as the god-awful stupid Flesh episode? That seems to be the only story big enough and dumbfuck stupid enough to warrant a two-parter in the last 2 years?!
"In other parts of the universe, words are science"
"I GAZE UPON THIS BAG OF BONES AND I NAME THEE MARTHA JONES"
"The naming only works once!"
All subjective of course - for me it was an abstract, intangible mess that I couldn't get to grips with. The constant gay allusions with Shakespeare were so trite as well (who was terribly cast).
50th anniversary mild filming spoilers
It looks like we're going to get a solution to the interesting ending though
I wasn't a huge fan of the flesh episodes either incidentally. It's funny that they chose that one to be a two-parter when there clearly wasn't enough story to fill an hour and a half when so many episodes suffer from not being quite long enough (the power of three, the angels take manhattan)
I am sorry, but the Flesh episodes were worth it for the final few minutes alone. It also had two doctors, so what the hell
5, 6 - Best
1, 2, 3 - Still Great
4, 7 - Not as Great
I second this, mindblowing ending.
1, 2, 3 - Still Great
4, 7 - Not as Great
I am sorry, but the Flesh episodes were worth it for the final few minutes alone. It also had two doctors, so what the hell
I second this, mindblowing ending.
I still can't believe that episode happened.
You have no idea how hyped my Latin class was when we found out they were making a episode of Doctor Who about Caecillius, Metella, Quintus etc. It's probably the only episode based on a Latin textbook. Shame they didn't include Grumio. He was the best.
I once got really drunk and blacked out, when I woke up in the morning there were videos of me ranting about the Cambridge Latin Course
APZonerunner
Member
I agree that the Martha/naming scene was a bit silly, but it is worth noting that entire scene - the Rose reference as well - was written by RTD in 25 minutes because there was meant to be an actual physical fight between Lillith and the Doctor, with her running off at the end to the Globe -- and then during rehearsal on set the woman set to do her sword fighting put her sword into the eye of the guy set to do the Doctor's. The entire scene was cancelled, and they only had that location for one night, so that scene was literally cobbled together in less than half an hour and emailed over, read and learned off tablets and laptops.
I do like the Shakespeare Code, though. The rules for the magic are silly in places, but, er, this is Doctor Who... the rules are pretty much always that way.
I think the main problem with the flesh episodes is that the solely existed to justify and explain the Amy not being there thing. The end result is an episode that isn't rich or interesting enough to support a two-parter but has its content stretched out paper-thin because extra time was needed for the conclusion and such. If you think about the actual structure of that story, for instance, the second Doctor is actually pretty redundant and useless on a story level - there's no need for two of them for the story to progress or conclude, but he provides something fun for Smith to do and provides an interesting plot thread for the second episode.
Funnily enough, I think Lazarus suffered from the same problem, except in a one-parter - because it existed to hint at the Master (with Lazarus' company logo being deliberately similar to Gallifreyan, even though they cut a line where the Doctor comments on it) and justify his ageing technology later on. That's a weird episode as it's actually really over in half an hour - when they blast Lazarus with the machine and Mark Gatiss is there, dead, carted away in the ambulance. The episode could have ended there, but then it sort of pulls the rug out from under you with him coming back to life, escaping and going to the church. That second ending isn't as effective as the first.
For me personally, I think 'Moffat's Who' is far more consistently GOOD than RTD's, absolutely. RTD had higher highs and perilously lower lows, though. I feel like that's reflected in the public as well, really. I feel like that's reflected in the Who-viewing habits of my friends and others around me, too. Moffat has the new popularity abroad to boost him as well, but I feel like in the UK you can see that; people accepted that there would be some shit episodes in 05-10, but Who also had a dominating grasp of the British mindshare at the time. It was something else. For a good 18 months, Who really was the only non-reality should that could make the front pages with relative ease. When Tennant fucked his back and needed that operation? Bloody hell, it was like it was happening to the PM or Prince Charles. The week after the cliffhanger of The Stolen Earth was honestly the best week of Doctor Who fandom I've ever had, because literally everybody was talking about it, everywhere, even people who didn't watch the show. It was something else. I think sometimes the silliness and reaching for something perhaps not as good as it could be on a story level allowed some other people (my mother, for instance, who stopped watching the show during Series 6 because she felt it was getting too continuity-heavy) through the door.
Moffat is no less successful, and ratings haven't dropped - plus he has the international success! I just think Who now has less of a dominating presence in the British hive-mind than it did... but now Americans actually know what the show is, and not in a 'fun joke' way. So, y'know. Different strokes and all that.
Exterminieren
Banned
4>5>3>1>7>6>2
I think it's far, far more consistent, tonally and in terms of quality.
Doesn't necessarily mean I think it's better all the time, as my ranking shows.
I think it's far, far more consistent, tonally and in terms of quality.
Doesn't necessarily mean I think it's better all the time, as my ranking shows.
- Status