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[Lazlo Woodbine]

Not suprised really. After all the promise of S5, this season feels like a real downer; meagre sendoff for Amy/Rory, undercooked new companion, unresolved plot threads/plot threads poorly resolved (Tranzilore etc).

I do wonder to what degree all the background drama has affected the show as a whole at this point. For all the shit RTD got, I never felt like we had as much wasted potential as we've had with Moffat.

Anywho, here's hoping the 50th and the Xmas special do Smith justice!

@ +1 for a new gender/race/age. After Matt, I think I'm done with more young/middle aged white dudes. New personality would be good too, put the eccentric on the back burner for a while.

 

[Snake]

Anybody but Dylan Moran.

Come at me.


edit: No more Amy, no more Rory, and especially no more River. Ideally there would be no more Moffat. Do something new.

 

[Dmax3901]

As if Dylan Moran would want to do it.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

It's going to be ood with Clara Staying and The Doctor changing. That happened with Rose and I think it worked well but Clara has had much less fleshing out. I wonder how substantial the change will be.

Doc9 was the angry doctor but had some great elements of wit about him
Doc10 seemed very much the happy fun doctor but still had those brooding and tortured elements
Doc11 has been whimsical but I've had trouble nailing down exactly what his personality was

Hopefully Doc12 can lose those sad emotions or replace them with darker ones. Some kind of prelude to The Valeyard would be nice. Making him the true "no second chances" kind of man. Maybe sometimes not even a first chance. Moffat writes dark character really well as is evident from Sherlock Jeykll

A Jeykll/Hyde kind of situation with Doctor/Valeyard coming out during the course of the series could be interesting.

 

[catapult37]

Not suprised really. After all the promise of S5, this season feels like a real downer; meagre sendoff for Amy/Rory, undercooked new companion, unresolved plot threads/plot threads poorly resolved (Tranzilore etc).

I do wonder to what degree all the background drama has affected the show as a whole at this point. For all the shit RTD got, I never felt like we had as much wasted potential as we've had with Moffat.

Anywho, here's hoping the 50th and the Xmas special do Smith justice!

@ +1 for a new gender/race/age. After Matt, I think I'm done with more young/middle aged white dudes. New personality would be good too, put the eccentric on the back burner for a while.

Totally sums up my feelings. I LOVE series 5 and all the pond stuff. It was also the time where all these setups occurred but before we realized what lame / nonexistent payoffs they would have. The whole Clara thing has been a lame as it gets in my opinion, and poorly executed. I have no connection to her and don't buy her connection to the doctor (which would have to be very strong to force her actions in the last ep).

OTOH series 5 had a GREAT payoff, esp. the forest of the dead moment and the "something borrowed" moment. SO GOOD.

 

[catapult37]

Sorry to double post, but I had an unrelated thought. I mentioned I love all the pond stuff and all the timey-wimey parts in "the pandorica opens" are tons of fun.

BUT. The much-revered pandorica speech. Can we talk about this for a minute? Cause to me, it typifies one of those things that bugs me about the whole show. To me, even worse than the evil being defeated by "the power of love," is the Doctor defeating his enemies by simply saying he's going to defeat them. By talking at them.

Now, I get that is is kind of a classic Doctor Who trope at this point, but it does bother me after a while, because it's usually wrapped in all this lore about "the oncoming storm" blah blah and how intimidating the Doctor is. How far back do you have to go to actually find one of those badass battles? Or is it just bluster all the way down? These "talk them out of it" moments usually occur when the enemy has dead to rights (though yes, I recognize that the pandorica speech nods to this with his "no plans" bit). I guess it just makes the Who enemies feel dumb (as the recurring ones so often do).

I could collect examples, but I'm being lazy ATM. I know it esp. bothered me in one of the (thousand) Dalek episodes a while back where the Daleks could and should have just shot the Doctor. It gets a bit Ninja Turtles after a while. Does this bug anyone else but me?

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Sorry to double post, but I had an unrelated thought. I mentioned I love all the pond stuff and all the timey-wimey parts in "the pandorica opens" are tons of fun.

BUT. The much-revered pandorica speech. Can we talk about this for a minute? Cause to me, it typifies one of those things that bugs me about the whole show. To me, even worse than the evil being defeated by "the power of love," is the Doctor defeating his enemies by simply saying he's going to defeat them. By talking at them.

Now, I get that is is kind of a classic Doctor Who trope at this point, but it does bother me after a while, because it's usually wrapped in all this lore about "the oncoming storm" blah blah and how intimidating the Doctor is. How far back do you have to go to actually find one of those badass battles? Or is it just bluster all the way down? These "talk them out of it" moments usually occur when the enemy has dead to rights (though yes, I recognize that the pandorica speech nods to this with his "no plans" bit). I guess it just makes the Who enemies feel dumb (as the recurring ones so often do).

I could collect examples, but I'm being lazy ATM. I know it esp. bothered me in one of the (thousand) Dalek episodes a while back where the Daleks could and should have just shot the Doctor. It gets a bit Ninja Turtles after a while. Does this bug anyone else but me?

It does bother me.

I much prefer the doctor as the bumbling timelord, using his wits and timelordyness to solve problems here and there.
Rather than some sort of space messiah making all his enemies shudder at the mention of him.

It's unfortunately a problem inherent to trying to making Dr Who "epic".

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Do people really want a high-profile actor in the role of "The Doctor"? First of all they'll never sign up for it and secondly, even if they did they wouldn't last long (hello Eccleston!) given the intense shooting schedule.

 

[KidDork]

A woman as the Doctor would be an interesting way to change things for the 50th anniversary.

Be fun to have the regeneration happen but something happens to the new Doctor before we see him/her, then hire Tennant for a few episodes as he tries to find his new self. I don't think it takes a lot to convince him to return.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Just have the 11th disappear in his TARDIS at the end of the Christmas episode and the 1st episode of the series has a completely new Doctor. Leave it open for him and... timey wimey.

 

[Future Foundation]

Sorry to double post, but I had an unrelated thought. I mentioned I love all the pond stuff and all the timey-wimey parts in "the pandorica opens" are tons of fun.

BUT. The much-revered pandorica speech. Can we talk about this for a minute? Cause to me, it typifies one of those things that bugs me about the whole show. To me, even worse than the evil being defeated by "the power of love," is the Doctor defeating his enemies by simply saying he's going to defeat them. By talking at them.

Now, I get that is is kind of a classic Doctor Who trope at this point, but it does bother me after a while, because it's usually wrapped in all this lore about "the oncoming storm" blah blah and how intimidating the Doctor is. How far back do you have to go to actually find one of those badass battles? Or is it just bluster all the way down? These "talk them out of it" moments usually occur when the enemy has dead to rights (though yes, I recognize that the pandorica speech nods to this with his "no plans" bit). I guess it just makes the Who enemies feel dumb (as the recurring ones so often do).

I could collect examples, but I'm being lazy ATM. I know it esp. bothered me in one of the (thousand) Dalek episodes a while back where the Daleks could and should have just shot the Doctor. It gets a bit Ninja Turtles after a while. Does this bug anyone else but me?

Someone more knowledgeable than I could step in, but I'd always assumed that some of this stuff had roots in Classic Who. He's always been thwarting his enemies with (and I'm quoting GetGlue) "little more than his wits and his Sonic Screwdriver". I didn't think anything of it because it was more of a nod to his reputation, which - considering some of the shit he's done just in New Who (not even counting the Time War) - is pretty massive.

 

[odiin]

It does bother me.

I much prefer the doctor as the bumbling timelord, using his wits and timelordyness to solve problems here and there.
Rather than some sort of space messiah making all his enemies shudder at the mention of him.

It's unfortunately a problem inherent to trying to making Dr Who "epic".

We'll get this again. One day. In like 15-20 years. Maybe.

:-(

 

[Quick]

Do people really want a high-profile actor in the role of "The Doctor"? First of all they'll never sign up for it and secondly, even if they did they wouldn't last long (hello Eccleston!) given the intense shooting schedule.

Pretty much. Doctor Who isn't necessarily a career killer, but it certainly puts a hold on an actor's career, since there's barely time to do anything else.

 

[The Technomancer]

It does bother me.

I much prefer the doctor as the bumbling timelord, using his wits and timelordyness to solve problems here and there.
Rather than some sort of space messiah making all his enemies shudder at the mention of him.

It's unfortunately a problem inherent to trying to making Dr Who "epic".

Oh yeah, it bothers me to. Jesus Doctor cropping up repeatedly towards the end of S3 and S4 was bad enough, but "Listen to me talk about how awesome I am so be scared" Doctor is worse

 

[Future Foundation]

Also, when was the last time the Doctor could ever be described as "bumbling"? I think maybe Troughton, but there's no one I'd ever really call bumbling, so I'm wondering where that description is coming from.

 

[Exterminieren]

But the whole point of the Pandorica speech is that the Doctor's become this figure who's actively damaging his own cause by becoming this big, pompous, Oncoming Storm character.

I mean, he makes a speech to the Alliance about how scared of him they should be. Directly after that, they lock him in the Pandorica due to the threat he poses to the universe, because they see him as this big, threatening figure. It's classic dramatic hubris, and we haven't really had a speech like it since. Indeed, much of the past series has been given to the idea that the Doctor 's been trading on his reputation too much, and has had to step back.

 

[Quick]

Oh yeah, it bothers me to. Jesus Doctor cropping up repeatedly towards the end of S3 and S4 was bad enough, but "Listen to me talk about how awesome I am so be scared" Doctor is worse

I think Moffat tried to dial it down.

Beginning with A Good Man Goes To War, River pointed out that he's become this arrogant asshole that scares people. Kovarian knew all this and played him according to her plan. She won that day, leaving the Doctor defeated and trying to find Melody again.

The Doctor erasing himself from databases all over is another way Moffat's dialing him down. No reputation to back up to, because no one has anything on him. Not to say nobody remembers him anymore, but he's kept himself quiet.

I don't mean to reach into ridiculousness, but I think the change in outfit marks a change in the Doctor, story-wise.

 

[APZonerunner]

I for one am really happy. I think it's the right time.

 

[Hot Coldman]

There's rarely been an instance of the Doctor grandstanding that hasn't been immediately punished. The only one I can think of is when he eliminates the Silence, and, well, they kidnapped Amy, so it was their turn for punishment.

 

[odiin]

Also, when was the last time the Doctor could ever be described as "bumbling"? I think maybe Troughton, but there's no one I'd ever really call bumbling, so I'm wondering where that description is coming from.

Not Baker? Not even McCoy? Really? Then again the late McCoy era is where the whole dark Doctor trend started in the first place...

 

[The Technomancer]

I think Moffat tried to dial it down.

Beginning with A Good Man Goes To War, River pointed out that he's become this arrogant asshole that scares people. Kovarian knew all this and played him according to her plan. She won that day, leaving the Doctor defeated and trying to find Melody again.

The Doctor erasing himself from databases all over is another way Moffat's dialing him down. No reputation to back up to, because no one has anything on him. Not to say nobody remembers him anymore, but he's kept himself quiet.

I don't mean to reach into ridiculousness, but I think the change in outfit marks a change in the Doctor, story-wise.

Sure, and this is part of why I like Series 7 so much: when I ignore the lackluster and ultimately disappointing Clara storyline Series 7 was a lot of weird story concepts being explored by The Doctor without any real interactions based on his reputation. That was great.

The speech in Rings of Akhetan was still as cringeworthy as all of Smith's "look how awesome I am" speeches though

There's rarely been an instance of the Doctor grandstanding that hasn't been immediately punished. The only one I can think of is when he eliminates the Silence, and, well, they kidnapped Amy, so it was their turn for punishment.

Yeah really when I complain about grandstanding its usually aimed squarely at series 5, which had both egregious examples of him getting away with it: the "Look how awesome I am" speech in Eleventh Hour and the "Don't put me in a trap" speech in Time of Angels

 

[Quick]

I'd like to think that his speech in The Eleventh Hour is a set-up to how his arrogance can get him into trouble, other than obviously saving Earth and giving himself an introduction .

Nothing happened to him afterward during that episode, but in The Pandorica Opens, one of the Alliance species is the Atraxi themselves. Clearly, they got tired of his shit quick.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Yeah really when I complain about grandstanding its usually aimed squarely at series 5, which had both egregious examples of him getting away with it: the "Look how awesome I am" speech in Eleventh Hour and the "Don't put me in a trap" speech in Time of Angels

The speech at the end of Time of Angels was the best thing ever.

The "Look how awesome I am" speech had its repercussions, given the Atraxi were part of the Alliance that trapped the Doctor in the Pandorica.

 

[catapult37]

There's rarely been an instance of the Doctor grandstanding that hasn't been immediately punished. The only one I can think of is when he eliminates the Silence, and, well, they kidnapped Amy, so it was their turn for punishment.

Well, there is the "look me up" bit in the Library, which, despite my above-stated distaste for this cliche, was one of his more legit badass moments.

BTW I made the mistake of watching the library episode too many times with friends and I ruined it for myself. For one, they talk about watching the shadows while constantly standing in shadows of varying degrees (a problem with the lighting approach I guess). But more than that, I thought the whole episode was probably conceived backward from the idea of a skeleton in a spacesuit. Watch it again and see if you don't agree. There are lots of plot contrivances to get that image on screen!

Anyway <3 Donna Noble

Yeah really when I complain about grandstanding its usually aimed squarely at series 5, which had both egregious examples of him getting away with it: the "Look how awesome I am" speech in Eleventh Hour and the "Don't put me in a trap" speech in Time of Angels

Yeah 11th Hour is definitely on the offender list here.

 

[The Technomancer]

The speech at the end of Time of Angels was the best thing ever.

The "Look how awesome I am" speech had its repercussions, given the Atraxi were part of the Alliance that trapped the Doctor in the Pandorica.

Yeah, I'm nitpicking at this point but ideally the tone of series 7 should have come immediately after series 5 for the whole "reputation backfire" thing to really work well for me. But we had 6 in there and, well, it was what it was...

 

[Quick]

Yeah, I'm nitpicking at this point but ideally the tone of series 7 should have come immediately after series 5 for the whole "reputation backfire" thing to really work well for me. But we had 6 in there and, well, it was what it was...

I think we needed A Good Man Goes To War for River to explicitly point it out.

 

[catapult37]

Sure, and this is part of why I like Series 7 so much: when I ignore the lackluster and ultimately disappointing Clara storyline Series 7 was a lot of weird story concepts being explored by The Doctor without any real interactions based on his reputation. That was great.

Yeah this was one thing that made "hide" awesome. Too bad it had to go and have a useless 4th act. But still pretty awesome. Best explanation for a ghost EVER.

 

[Future Foundation]

Not Baker? Not even McCoy? Really? Then again the late McCoy era is where the whole dark Doctor trend started in the first place...

I dunno, I guess I never really thought of Baker as "bumbling". And by the way he turned out, I thought McCoy's early character was more of a ruse to hide the more manipulative character he became later on.

 

[APZonerunner]

Well, there is the "look me up" bit in the Library, which, despite my above-stated distaste for this cliche, was one of his more legit badass moments.

BTW I made the mistake of watching the library episode too many times with friends and I ruined it for myself. For one, they talk about watching the shadows while constantly standing in shadows of varying degrees (a problem with the lighting approach I guess). But more than that, I thought the whole episode was probably conceived backward from the idea of a skeleton in a spacesuit. Watch it again and see if you don't agree. There are lots of plot contrivances to get that image on screen!

Anyway <3 Donna Noble

This post - specifically the bit about the "conceived backwards from the idea of a skeleton in the suit" - reminds me of Lawrence Miles' "Moffat times Table" that he did around Series 4 time, when he was gearing up to take over the show. Miles is certified mental, of course, but the space suit skeletons always did make me chuckle - see 5:

 

[Quick]

For anybody interested:

 

[Phanatic8390]

I just got around to watching "The Name of the Doctor" ...

Spoiler

WHAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[The Technomancer]

For anybody interested:

Thanks

 

[Quick]

Thanks

Well played. :lol

 

[SuluDance]

Since the Anniversary special is Ten and Eleven running around together, then the Christmas Special should be Eleven and Twelve running around together-and at the end of the episode Eleven regenerates into Twelve.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Not only do I really like that - I bet you're right.

 

[Shahadan]

Fuck you Matt ;_;
So, next doctor is final doctor?

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Fuck you Matt ;_;
So, next doctor is final doctor?

The Thirteenth Doctor (meaning the one after this upcoming new one, unless the Hurt Doctor counts as a regeneration) would be the final one if we are to take the regeneration limit as canon.

You know damn well the show isn't going to stop then though. It's too much of a moneymaker to just end like that.

 

[Quick]

Since the Anniversary special is Ten and Eleven running around together, then the Christmas Special should be Eleven and Twelve running around together-and at the end of the episode Eleven regenerates into Twelve.

It's Matt Smith's final episode. He's already co-starring with David Tennant on the 50th, so I think this Christmas Special is all for him and Jenna-Louise Coleman to star in.

Plus, I like the buildup to the Doctor's very first scene.

Fuck you Matt ;_;
So, next doctor is final doctor?

The Thirteenth Doctor (meaning the one after this upcoming new one, unless the Hurt Doctor counts as a regeneration) would be the final one if we are to take the regeneration limit as canon.

You know damn well the show isn't going to stop then though. It's too much of a moneymaker to just end like that.

BBC/RTD pretty much axed the 13 regeneration limit.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Well, an awful shame Matt's last season was so middling and mediocre, considering how he started out. You either die a one-off, or you live long enough to become a showrunner I guess.

 

[Shahadan]

The Thirteenth Doctor (meaning the one after this upcoming new one, unless the Hurt Doctor counts as a regeneration) would be the final one if we are to take the regeneration limit as canon.

You know damn well the show isn't going to stop then though. It's too much of a moneymaker to just end like that.

I don't know I thought ratings were decreasing and each doctor stays a few years...then again new doctor could boost that.
I'll be disappointed if they do a cop out and say John Hurt doesn't count as he doesn't deserve the name "doctor" or some shit like that.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I'll be disappointed if they do a cop out and say John Hurt doesn't count as he doesn't deserve the name "doctor" or some shit like that.

Have you even watched the last episode?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Yeah, that's basically THE conceit. there's been twelve regenerations, but only 11 of them are "Doctors."

Whatever Hurt was, was not a "Doctor."

 

[Shahadan]

Have you even watched the last episode?

Yes. What I mean is, not deserving the name shouldn't mean he doesn't count as a regen.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Yes. What I mean is, not deserving the name shouldn't mean he doesn't count as a regen.

Okay, but then he's still not a "Doctor" as we know it.

 

[SuluDance]

Yeah, that's basically THE conceit. there's been twelve regenerations, but only 11 of them are "Doctors."

Whatever Hurt was, was not a "Doctor."

He was only an Attending.

 

[Shahadan]

Okay, but then he's still not a "Doctor" as we know it.

Yes but that shouldn't matter! It's still the same body. Plus, I don't see John Hurt not being given some sort of redemption down the road.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Jan Itor, TimeLord.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Yes but that shouldn't matter! It's still the same body. Plus, I don't see John Hurt not being given some sort of redemption down the road.

The whole concept of Doctor Who is that it's the actions of the person and not the body that matters. But yes, I agree Hurt will be given some kind of redemption, especially if he's reappearing in S8.

 

[Keyser Soze]

If Moffat is in charge when Thirteen has to go to to Fourteen - I could see them referencing the limit. I would not be surprised if the limit is part of Thirteen's overall arc - with it even been the core story for his run.

They will write their way out of it though - with

Spoiler

love

fixing everything

 

[Shahadan]

I'd like to see what john hurt's character has done a reason why subsequent regens were younger. What he did was a hard and "adult" choice belonging to the logical realm. Could be interesting if the younger regens were a way to prevent that from happening again or something.