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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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peanutbutterlatte
Member
On one hand, I absolutely agree -and I am saying that as someone who had no issues with River, not even the Let's Kill Hitler version. But on the other hand, "spoilers" and her smile suggests that by being linked to Clara, she may have survived the Library
So at this point, we can...pray, I guess?
You can only say so many goodbyes to a character before it becomes stale, regardless of how timey-wimey it is. Certainly if Moffat brings her back again he's going to invalidate the conclusion in Name of the Doctor, which was pretty good considering awful The Wedding of River Song was and how completely flat and disappointingly quiet the character was in Angels Take Manhattan. Just my opinion of course.
PlanetSmasher
Banned
On one hand, I absolutely agree -and I am saying that as someone who had no issues with River, not even the Let's Kill Hitler version. But on the other hand, "spoilers" and her smile suggests that by being linked to Clara, she may have survived the Library
So at this point, we can...pray, I guess?
I feel like at this point, River's lived out her purpose in the story. Without the Ponds around, she feels extraneous, and a character whose only purpose is to provide memes and catchphrases. Giving her the closure she got in TNotD, combined with name-dropping the Library and reminding the audience of where she ends up, is a really good way to close the book on the character in a surprisingly non-hamfisted way.
I think her "spoilers" was just a callback to her catchphrase this time around, rather than a hint of something more.
They'll just say it was good bye to the 11th doctor because he was her first/favorite or something. But she has no reason to come back anyway.
Exterminieren
Banned
River's last scene in The Name of the Doctor was far, far better than her material post-Day of the Moon warranted.
I wouldn't mind seeing her again, but we don't necessarily NEED to see her.
I wouldn't mind seeing her again, but we don't necessarily NEED to see her.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
She really is Moffat's Rose; keeps coming back, thus softening the blow of genuinely great exits. I'm glad that [50th trailer]
they seem to be taking her (Rose's) character in a different direction for the 50th.
Yupp. Which is why she should stay gone while the going's good. It was a very sad scene, well acted too.
Still sucks how they built her up as Amy & Rory's daughter and have very little reference to that. Angels Take Manhattan;
"I'm sorry River. They were your parents."
"It doesn't matter."
Oh... okay then River
One more thing. In a World's End interview, Edgar Wright the director likens Simon Pegg's character to a "drunken Doctor Who". I'm taking that as a covert announcement of Pegg as 12. Which I would be ecstatic about.
Zeouterlimits
Member
I don't know if I fully agree. There're plenty of lingering questions around River, and it tends to fit that she comes back.
With Rose, it felt like RTD just wouldn't let go of a character he had written off in a spectacular and perfect way.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I suppose the confusion and highs and lows of River's portrayal fit the relationship perfectly in a way. The thing with River is she's synonymous now with Amy & Rory's time on the show, and she's clearly going to be little more than a sore reminder to The Doctor that they are gone.
To me, it feels equally if as Moffatt won't let her go. Actually, I'll scratch that, as long as this was her final appearance. If she appears again... question mark time.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The Name of the Doctor sure as hell felt final to me. That was curtain-call. Swan song.
River's done. Circle's closed.
River's done. Circle's closed.
APZonerunner
Member
The thing about this is that because he states his age - he straight up tells Wilf he's 906 in The End of Time - the tenth incarnation does only live for about 5 years. Fast and hard, though, I guess. The RTD era is set in real time for whatever reason. It starts in 2005, skips ahead 1 year to 2006 in Aliens of London, and then stays at that point with its present day stories from then on. That's why "The Next Doctor" was conceived in Victorian London, incidentally. If you think about it, all the Christmas specials up to that point were set 1 year ahead of broadcast thanks to Aliens of London - Christmas Invasion is set in 06, aired in 05, Runaway Bride 07/06, Voyage 08/07 -- in order to fit around the other episodes around it. RTD deliberately set The Next Doctor away from contemporary earth so that he could set the 09 christmas special in 2009, thus resetting the timeline so Moffat didn't have to move everything up by a year - which Moffat requested.
RE River - I do think she's done, but the scope is there. Moffat has straight up said in an interview that she has adventures with Doctors past 11, even if 11 is her 'main' one, so she could show up in 12's time at some other point in her personal timeline. The main issue is Kingston ageing, really.
It says the account is non-validated.Guess I'll just be patient, then.
Ah, sorry
I forgot to do that It's all set now Try it again:http://www.mediafire.com/?j6t87661gsvvmra
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Now where's the leak of the 50th anniversary trailer...
Nope. Moffat made a threat that he (and I guess the BBC) wouldn't share any other exclusives at CC if these got out, because Sherlock's audio leaked within a few minutes. We'll just have to wait and see what happens next year.
I know that a leak is expected, but when a creator tells you not to do it, you kinda have to listen to him/her.
Exterminieren
Banned
Well, Moffat's mission accomplished, I guess.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
No you don't. You tell him to fuck off and record it anyways. Like they're not going to advertise the 50th anniversary trailer. Call the asshole's bluff.
MisterNegative
Banned
No you don't. Just don't be a pussy and tell him to go fuck himself.
Yeah and at start of Impossible Astronaut he says he's 1,103 years old. So he lived a LOT longer then 5 years. Hell we have no idea how long he sulked after Amy and Rory, it could have been a century.
Edit: found this on a random who Wiki.
So he's at least a 1000 by the time Clara comes around. And as far as what you're saying.
So even the writers are fucking clueless really.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
... woah guys. Come on. I want to watch the trailer too but... woah.
Exterminieren
Banned
People are angry. Let them rage.
But seriously, are you guys new to this sort of thing? I'm still waiting for a direct-feed of the Ant-Man test footage, but I'm not telling Edgar Wright to go fuck himself.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
It was me last night too, don't worry. It genuinely put me in a bad mood this morning when nothing had surfaced... silly I guess. But I want to see that trailer.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
It's not so much not being able to see the trailer, it's that he threatened the fans. Holding content hostage unless he gets his way. And to that I say fuck him.
"Hey guys, here's the exclusive trailer, and since I know you're all tweeting right now, let the people not here know it will be available next week"
vs.
"Hey you little shits, share this and you're not getting another shred of content until this airs"
Kano on the Phone
Member
You misspelled "wahhh."
APZonerunner
Member
Er... We're talking about the life of the Tenth Doctor, who dies at 906. Thus talking about RTD being obsessed with keeping it real time. The entire discussion was about suggesting part of the reason he 'didn't want to go' being that he hadn't had a very long life, comparatively speaking, versus other Regenerations.
Exterminieren
Banned
Yes, Moffat's a dour, brusque Scotsman. Doesn't change the message.
I highly doubt uploading the trailer was Moffat's call to make. He's guilty of bluntness and bad PR, nothing more.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
... okay then. I know Moffatt was a tool about it, but getting so venomous towards someone who was there (and already delivered us the Space & Time clip) is a bit silly.
Exterminieren
Banned
Look at him, respecting the showrunner's request. What a pussy.
Oh then n/m lol.
Ein Bear
Member
River sucks, and sucks hard, but I'm sure she'll be back at least once more. Moffat won't be able to resist using her in his final episode as showrunner at the very least, I'd bet.
SirMossyBloke
Member
Or Donna. Fuck Donna.
As long as they keep playing with the numbers in the aired episodes trying to find reason in his stated age is just pointless. He was 900 in the film, then still 900 in the new series, then wooooosh 200 years later he's 1100, then he's back down to 1000 when Clara comes along.
The Doctor just makes this shit up. All the time. Even if it was RTD's intent that for that period only the years mattered and made sense, it's obviously not going to stay that way once the audiobook floodgates open on 10.
Well... I kinda think that the tour was not exactly for the 10th only... it felt like it was for RTD's departure as well. As a nod to everything that this huge team did together. Now, with Smith, there is not much left. Only Jenny, Vastra and Strax. And of course, River. (?)
It felt entirely like it was RTD. That's the problem with it. Let him gush about how fantastic and how hard leaving is in Confidential.
APZonerunner
Member
Well, in fairness since 2005 they've nailed this down - like many things. He's 900+. He says 903 in Voyage and then 906 to Wilf a short time before dying. He's 907 by Flesh & Stone, 909 in The Impossible Astronaut, and then 1200 by A Town Called Mercy. There's also estimations of "I'm 900/1000" here and there, but generally speaking they've nailed it down from the old Who mess. His age is pretty linear now.
Of course, they won't let that stop loads of expanded media stuff for the Tenth Doctor, so it won't make a difference in the end... it's just a curiosity of the scripting, really.
I feel in a sense it was a nice goodbye to a lot of those characters, but that in itself is perhaps a lash back against the show for how lacklustre individual send-offs were at the end of Series 4. It went too far, and so nobody really got a satisfactory conclusion except Donna.
I'm not a fan of the goodbye tour, but I wouldn't change the Donna or Rose scenes in it for the world. I love those scenes. The Martha/Mickey/Joan/Jack stuff could all be gladly lost, though.
The Donna bit is tricky because her initial exit was so poorly handled and this one didn't really do anything to repair that.
But the final scene with Rose, that's the one thing I'd keep. It was great.
Lavalamp1138
Member
Vague description to avoid spoilers: Doesn't it get inserted into that thingy so the transfer can be completed? I just assumed it was/had to be left in that thingy. It's been a while since I saw that episode.
PlanetSmasher
Banned
I got the same impression. The Red Screwdriver had to be left in the database, or the Doctor left it behind on purpose as a memorial.
I don't remember in the episode or not, but was the Red setting screwdriver the same prop as Eleven's, just with a red LED, or was it a modified version of Ten's? What did it look like?
googleplex
Member
Your opinion is bad and you should feel feel bad. Donna was the best companion tied only with Rory.
Kano on the Phone
Member
Getting venomous about it at all is silly. No one is owed anything.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Again, my issue isn't that SDCC got an early trailer (that's what happens at SDCC), my issue his him threatening the entire fanbase with no more previews and clips unless he gets his way.
jokingbird
Member
Ah, sorry
http://www.mediafire.com/?j6t87661gsvvmra
Already deleted..
Well, it wasn't like a real threat . . . you just had to be there, I guess. It was more of a plea mixed with a "we won't do this exclusive thing again if a leak happens."
Who knows if it was a bluff or not, but he sounded fairly serious.
Exterminieren
Banned
Where does he say that?
He says that there may be no more Comic Con trailers. That's not the same thing, and may not be down to Moffat. I imagine he was irritated that his Sherlock clip, that he did ask nicely to be kept under wraps, was leaked in a matter of seconds.
Man, the entitlement some people in here (not everyone!) display is something else. I saw a video of the panel (without the trailers obviously), and Moffat certainly wasn't being an asshole. He just made it very clear that people shouldn't be filming it - like they did at literally every panel at Comic-Con. He even apologized for having to ask it. That's just the way it works. Don't forget that the BBC haven't been doing this Comic-Con thing for very long - as someone who grew up watching the classic BBC sitcoms/shows, it feels like a miracle they're even there. It's still a government-sponsored channel. They don't have the PR-savvy of a company like Marvel or something (who, I might add, also aren't sharing their trailers, but people aren't going apeshit over that either). Trips like this are expensive, and after a couple of years of Doctor Who being at Comic-Con (and it really has only been a couple), they're still figuring this stuff out. Making a 'threat' like that might sound weird, but if jerks in the audience insist on sharing that stuff I can totally understand the BBC not wanting to come over there anymore. Sounds like a BBC-decision, Moffat is just the messenger here. Also, from a creative side, I'd be pretty pissed too if something I've been working hard on gets leaked to the internet early in the form of a low-res cam-video, weeks or months before they're ready to start the real marketing. Their schedule doesn't revolve around Comic-Con. It's just an extra for the fans, and an attempt at getting some good press. Is it really that hard to understand that they don't want grainy movies that make the entire thing look far worse than it actually is popping up online? If stuff like that keeps happening, certainly with something as big as was shown in the two trailers, I can totally understand it not being worth the BBC's time/money to do it again in the future. It's not a 'fuck you' to the fans (honestly, what would be the sense in that?), it's just a matter of figuring out how to use your marketing budget without undermining your own tv-show.
But whatever. Whether you agree with the BBC's reasoning or not, I'd say it's even worse to go on complaining about it just because some people got to see something you won't see for a while. I get that you're annoyed that you have to wait - Hell, I'm as big of a fan as anyone (although I'm not sure I want to admit that after all this) and I can't wait for November, but insulting the creative team behind this and acting like a spoiled child? It's just a trailer. It's not the end of the world. Man. Grow up.
Sorry for the rant, but I keep coming into this thread because I hope to see people discussing the awesome new details we've learned about at Comic-Con, but people keep spamming up the thread with all the leak-begging and Moffat-insulting. And I guess after this post I'm part of the problem, so I'll shut up now.
But whatever. Whether you agree with the BBC's reasoning or not, I'd say it's even worse to go on complaining about it just because some people got to see something you won't see for a while. I get that you're annoyed that you have to wait - Hell, I'm as big of a fan as anyone (although I'm not sure I want to admit that after all this) and I can't wait for November, but insulting the creative team behind this and acting like a spoiled child? It's just a trailer. It's not the end of the world. Man. Grow up.
Sorry for the rant, but I keep coming into this thread because I hope to see people discussing the awesome new details we've learned about at Comic-Con, but people keep spamming up the thread with all the leak-begging and Moffat-insulting. And I guess after this post I'm part of the problem, so I'll shut up now.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I agree people are taking it way too far, but I still want to see the trailer. I won't be ashamed of that. Marvel not releasing theirs is a bit of a different story, but I won't get into that as I realise how entitled and silly it sounds.
And therein lies the problem, the awesome new details we've learnt. We have the BBC allowing several websites to give line-by-line descriptions of the trailer, but no trailer. Seems utterly pointless. Either completely lock it down, or don't.
Discotheque
Banned
it was awesome how they got Craig Ferguson to moderate the panel at comic-con. dude is just naturally funny during conversation.
he should just replace that lame chris hardwick entirely at all the panels.
he should just replace that lame chris hardwick entirely at all the panels.
Yeah, you can sense that he's honestly excited about the show. It's weird his show still the only US-based talkshow to receive the DW-stars as guests (as far as I know, at least).
I hope his cameo in a DW-episode is still happening. Last thing I heard is that everyone wanted to do it, but they couldn't figure it out schedule-wise. He'd make a great sympathetic villain.
APZonerunner
Member
I don't give a damn about the trailer, but the tone of the tweet they put out was a pretty poor show, I feel. Asking people at the panel nicely is one thing, putting out that tweet saying NO MORE EXCLUSIVES EVER IF YOU POST ANYTHING seemed pretty silly if nothing else.
I by and large agree about the trailer hand wringing - was telling people not to get excited before the panel in this very thread, even - but the narrative about the production problems and the growing narrative around Moffat being a prima donna is worthy discussion and all that. Same discussions went on about RTD and will about the next person.
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