Davey Cakes
Member
It's half a game.
Does Mario Sunshine Deserve The Hate It Gets?
- Thread starter Wellscha
- Start date
AlfonzoPalutena
Member
In the mainline Super Mario series (being Super Mario Bros -> 3D World), Sunshine is easily the worst.
...that being said, I enjoyed some of it. I think I would have liked the game if it didn't star Mario. Expectations for an amazing platformer are too high with his name on the box.
Additionally, the Super Mario series is so consistently good that being the worst among them is certainly no death sentence.
I can see the cool ideas the developers had, it's a shame FLUDD was so...frustrating
...that being said, I enjoyed some of it. I think I would have liked the game if it didn't star Mario. Expectations for an amazing platformer are too high with his name on the box.
Additionally, the Super Mario series is so consistently good that being the worst among them is certainly no death sentence.
I can see the cool ideas the developers had, it's a shame FLUDD was so...frustrating
The worst filet is still a pretty decent steak.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Mario 64 and Galaxy brought way more to the table than Sunshine. That was was pretty much Mario 64 with a squirt gun.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I never played it. Wish it would come to Wii U.
UltimaWeapon
Member
Worst 3D Mario in my opinion, but has some of the best music. I actually enjoyed the non-FLUDD moments the most.
I wouldn't mind a remaster of this game if they could get rid of the kinks. But even if they did that, they'd have to somehow re-map the analogue FLUDD controls from GC to work with modern controllers' digital inputs.
I wouldn't mind a remaster of this game if they could get rid of the kinks. But even if they did that, they'd have to somehow re-map the analogue FLUDD controls from GC to work with modern controllers' digital inputs.
Unless NX has analogue shoulder buttons.
Jawbreaker
Member
I loved it, and it almost defined my entire summer in 2002 when I got it on release day. Those pure platforming levels were soooo gooood.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Beat Mario game ever and one of my favorite games of all time.
Well... Like me (and most of the fans I think) were waiting for the big sequel of Mario 64, and Mario Sunshine just is not that awesome, and isn't better in any way (gameplay, worlds/level, charm, etc), that's why Mario Sunshine was a big disappointment.
Also, getting the 100% is ridiculous (the damn blue coins) and force the player to use the FLUDD the 95% of the game was not a good idea.
It's a good game, but very underwhelming in almost every way.
Also, getting the 100% is ridiculous (the damn blue coins) and force the player to use the FLUDD the 95% of the game was not a good idea.
It's a good game, but very underwhelming in almost every way.
Rapscallion
Member
It's hard being the worst a series that are easily the most genre defining platformers ever.
It's a great game, but it's just not as polished and fleshed out as the other Mario 3d platformers. That said, it still holds up better than most 3d platformers of its era. It's certainly better than Jak and Daxter and most of what came out of Sony during the time. Thievus Racoonus might be the only platformer, in my eyes, that holds up better for that era.
It's a great game, but it's just not as polished and fleshed out as the other Mario 3d platformers. That said, it still holds up better than most 3d platformers of its era. It's certainly better than Jak and Daxter and most of what came out of Sony during the time. Thievus Racoonus might be the only platformer, in my eyes, that holds up better for that era.
It's not awful, but it's a 7/10 in a series of 9's and 10's.
I used to think people were hating on it unnecessarily but then I went back and replayed it...yikes. Camera is bad, blue coins are boring filler and the missions themselves are very, very hit and miss. For every cool, novel concept there's a level where you're fighting the camera in tight environments trying to squirt something or another with the FLUDD, having no fun the entire time.
Almost the entirety of Hotel Delfino is mediocrity.
When was the last time you played it? Did you beat it?
I used to think people were hating on it unnecessarily but then I went back and replayed it...yikes. Camera is bad, blue coins are boring filler and the missions themselves are very, very hit and miss. For every cool, novel concept there's a level where you're fighting the camera in tight environments trying to squirt something or another with the FLUDD, having no fun the entire time.
Almost the entirety of Hotel Delfino is mediocrity.
When was the last time you played it? Did you beat it?
Lionel Richie
Member
I don't think it's hated. It's a flawed but absolutely gorgeous game that has a loyal fanbase and just so happens to be the weak link in what is arguably the best videogame series ever. It's divisive by nature.
We're not even talking about Super Mario 64.
I can see it getting hate for not feeling like a Mario game, but it was definitely one direction they could have taken the franchise in after Mario 64. It was a natural step: they could have made a game exactly like Mario 64, could have made a game more restrictive and focused on obstacles (Galaxy, which led to the 3D Land/World concept via Galaxy 2), or made a game with a more detailed and "realistic" world. Sunshine was the latter. The hover nozzle especially emphasized the parkour and freedom of movement and exploration aspect of Mario 64, an aspect which was toned down by Galaxy and nigh-gone by Galaxy 2 in favor of the hidden pickups.
Of course, the exploration aspect was hampered a bit because they adapted the "you can only get the Shine of the episode you're in" model, which followed in Galaxy aside from a handful of secret stars/shines. But the blue coins made up for that.
Aside from that shine where you have to take Yoshi way off of the plaza to melt the juice over the warp pipe and then go into super-death-sluice world, everything else in it is cool.
Of course, the exploration aspect was hampered a bit because they adapted the "you can only get the Shine of the episode you're in" model, which followed in Galaxy aside from a handful of secret stars/shines. But the blue coins made up for that.
Aside from that shine where you have to take Yoshi way off of the plaza to melt the juice over the warp pipe and then go into super-death-sluice world, everything else in it is cool.
Well when you are the first 3D Mario successor to Super Mario 64, you are going to receive excessive scrutiny. Super Mario Sunshine is a good game and I don't think it deserves most of the hate it gets but it has several problems.
It is by far my favorite Mario game to control. You lose some of Mario's combat repertoire from the previous game (punches and kicks), but some of the stuff you can do with FLUDD is just phenomenal. I really love squirting just a tad amount of water in front you, performing a dive, and moving at a fast slide for several second. The way you can combo the new spin jump for either movement purposes (combined with Hover) or combat (combined with spray) is great.
While I don't especially like the art direction in regards to characters and creatures, I love the way the development team brought different parts of a tropical island/resort to life and in a cohesive way. You can even see other levels from different levels in the game, giving each level a sense of place in the grand scheme of the game.
But they really dropped the ball on a lot of other aspects, mostly gameplay related.
Blue Coins in this game are awful. There are way too many of them and no user friendly way of keeping track of what you do and do not have. I also hated that I would get a save prompt every time I picked one up. It kills the pacing, especially when your core movement is so fast and tight.
I don't like the way Yoshi was implemented. I understand they wanted another method to lock content away for you to find and access yourself, but the juice meter was such a weird limitation when Yoshi is already vulnerable to instant death when exposed to water. I also didn't think Yoshi movement was nearly as polished as Mario's. God help you if you have a bad jump when getting to the warp pipe on the island near Isle Delfino.
Some levels, such as Noki Bay, were too large for their own good and made traversal a slog, especially when vertically was in the mix.
There were some questionable gimmicks added to the game that just aren't fun. I really hated the King Boo boss in Sirena Beach. Roulette tied to progression/succession is not fun. Some of the hidden courses/trials didn't feel fully fleshed out either. The one where you are inside the pinball "machine" has some wonky physics. The level that tasks you with riding on a lily pad while atop moving waters and collecting coins while slowly sinking? Terrible. And man, the final gauntlet to Bowser is just a shit show. The way you commandeer the boats isn't as tight as I would like and just led to lots of frustration.
Sunshine is a good game but it has lots of problems holding it back from being anything better.
[EDIT]Added the hidden tirals/courses to gimmicks since I just remembered them after hitting submit.
It is by far my favorite Mario game to control. You lose some of Mario's combat repertoire from the previous game (punches and kicks), but some of the stuff you can do with FLUDD is just phenomenal. I really love squirting just a tad amount of water in front you, performing a dive, and moving at a fast slide for several second. The way you can combo the new spin jump for either movement purposes (combined with Hover) or combat (combined with spray) is great.
While I don't especially like the art direction in regards to characters and creatures, I love the way the development team brought different parts of a tropical island/resort to life and in a cohesive way. You can even see other levels from different levels in the game, giving each level a sense of place in the grand scheme of the game.
But they really dropped the ball on a lot of other aspects, mostly gameplay related.
Blue Coins in this game are awful. There are way too many of them and no user friendly way of keeping track of what you do and do not have. I also hated that I would get a save prompt every time I picked one up. It kills the pacing, especially when your core movement is so fast and tight.
I don't like the way Yoshi was implemented. I understand they wanted another method to lock content away for you to find and access yourself, but the juice meter was such a weird limitation when Yoshi is already vulnerable to instant death when exposed to water. I also didn't think Yoshi movement was nearly as polished as Mario's. God help you if you have a bad jump when getting to the warp pipe on the island near Isle Delfino.
Some levels, such as Noki Bay, were too large for their own good and made traversal a slog, especially when vertically was in the mix.
There were some questionable gimmicks added to the game that just aren't fun. I really hated the King Boo boss in Sirena Beach. Roulette tied to progression/succession is not fun. Some of the hidden courses/trials didn't feel fully fleshed out either. The one where you are inside the pinball "machine" has some wonky physics. The level that tasks you with riding on a lily pad while atop moving waters and collecting coins while slowly sinking? Terrible. And man, the final gauntlet to Bowser is just a shit show. The way you commandeer the boats isn't as tight as I would like and just led to lots of frustration.
Sunshine is a good game but it has lots of problems holding it back from being anything better.
[EDIT]Added the hidden tirals/courses to gimmicks since I just remembered them after hitting submit.
entremet
Member
It's the only mainline Mario game I haven't 100 percented. It irks me, but Blue Coins are so horribly done--different coins for different Shines was a horrendous decision.
Agent_J
Member
I always liked it, but it's hard to play now. The controls get some getting used to, but once you get comfortable it's just super fun to traverse the levels. It was my first 3D Mario so I wasn't disappointed about not being similar to SM64. If it were remade on WiiU I would certainly buy it.
Tyraniboah
Member
Personally I'd say no. I loved Sunshine. It's no Galaxy and it's really not even "Mario". But it's a fun 3D platformer and it's also nice to look at. I suppose I understand the hate it gets for not feeling like traditional mario. But it's not deserved.
MulderYuffie
Member
no it's a fantastic game.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
who's talking about mario galaxy?
Goldenroad
Member
What hate? I've never seen a list of the Top 25 gamecube games that does not include Sunshine? It's not the best Mario game, but that's like saying low sodium bacon is not the best bacon. It's still bacon, so who cares?
Omega Kirby
Member
Decent mario but the worst 3D one
First off anyone who thinks Mario Sunshine is a bad game is not to be taken seriously.
To be honest I didn't find the overall game got a lot of hate it was just the FLUDD thing. Some people have these weird ideas and for some reason people singled that out as artificial, whatever the heck that means. I personally like that they gave the game it's own flavor but it lacked the polish of the other 3D Marios.
To be honest I didn't find the overall game got a lot of hate it was just the FLUDD thing. Some people have these weird ideas and for some reason people singled that out as artificial, whatever the heck that means. I personally like that they gave the game it's own flavor but it lacked the polish of the other 3D Marios.
Maybe it was ahead of its time, the fludd thing would have worked better using the wii control as a hose.
The platforming is lacking anyway when compared to regular 3D Mario, the concept behind it is great and I feel it gave birth to DeBlob and Splatoon later, it just wasn't the right fit for Mario game.
The platforming is lacking anyway when compared to regular 3D Mario, the concept behind it is great and I feel it gave birth to DeBlob and Splatoon later, it just wasn't the right fit for Mario game.
Can't imagine a game that played like Sunshine being "non-Mario"
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Absolutely a good game, but for a Mario game, especially coming after Super Mario 64 it falls short in quite a lot of areas. After finding out just how much got cut from it I feel like I'd probably gel with it more if it ever got properly finished, but as is it's a fun but pretty weak Mario game. I'd probably rank the original NSMB below it, but other than that I'd say it's the worst mainline Mario, yeah. Shame too, since you don't get many platformers that are more open-world and mission-focused like Sunshine or Banjo anymore.
Are you telling me you weren't enthralled by the mystery of who kidnapped Peach?
The bonus levels are great and either have a good focus on platforming or put FLUDD to some good use, but quite a number of Sunshine's regular missions just amount to cleaning shit up. It's not the entire game, but I'd argue those parts still didn't feel very Mario-ish at all.
MillionVolts
Member
I loved it when it first came out and after revisiting it about a year ago, I felt like it has def has some problems but overall is still a really good game.
I especially like the "Secret" Shines. Damn good challenging 3D platforming right there.
I especially like the "Secret" Shines. Damn good challenging 3D platforming right there.
Dangansona
Member
If you put 64 and Sunshine in front of me, I'd pick Sunshine to play everytime. More interesting world, better music, obviously better style, and I love FLUDD.
I think it should be a top priority for Nintendo to remake along with Skyward Sword. With a few adjustments both could be excellent games.
I think it should be a top priority for Nintendo to remake along with Skyward Sword. With a few adjustments both could be excellent games.
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