Why does everyone HATE Smash Ultimate now?!

consoul said:
Why does everyone HATE potatoes now?

They don't. Whoever this YouTuber is can get fucked. Make decent content and you won't have to resort to using bullshit absolutes like this.
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Brain rotted Gen Z and Aplha kids that eventually "Hate" a game if it's not live service with constant weekly updates despite being feature complete and supported for years prior.
 
ReyBrujo said:
So, Astrobot before Astrobot? Waiting for his video about why everyone hates Astrobot in 7 years.
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I think every third-party character on Astro Bot is heavily associated with PlayStation in one way or another.
I know some people bring up Ulala, but even Space Channel 5's latest entry (Kinda Funky News Flash) is heavily associated with PlayStation VR, same thing with Rez.
 
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News to me, game is awesome, probably the best in the franchise. If I could post any screenshot from today on a gaming message board 20 years ago it would be this roster, lol
 
TropicanaTwista said:
Legitimately asking, do the sales really tell the whole story though? I say this as someone who has bought ever single smash bros, this one is by far my least played (even though it isn't necessarily my least favorite). Like does the game have a legitimate following and get run time by a majority of those people. It may, but it fell off for me compared to previous entries.
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Well no, sales don't tell the whole story, they rarely ever do. But I think the amount of Smash fans who are pro players and upset by some of the changes in Ultimate, aren't a large enough slice of the total customer base to have a material effect on changes for the next game.

UNLESS, Smash is one of those IP where the later casual and mainstream mass-market adoption rates are heavily reliant on early momentum set by hardcore and core enthusiasts (which would include pro players). If so, then lower purchasing rates at launch of the next entry could have a knock-on effect for latter adoption, though maybe in a subdued manner. I just genuinely don't know what percentage of the hardcore Smash fanbase align with pro players and the such on their problems with Ultimate, though.

Also, I do feel Smash is one of those franchises where casual/mainstream attention and those who take to it more as a party game, just treat it like tradition at this point. Kind of like those who always buy COD annually no matter what, or Madden, or FIFA/Football Club etc. Nintendo are probably more interested in appealing to the less hardcore demographic for the IP, but I would agree with the idea that they could balance it out with appeals to hardcore & pro players all the same.

Neff said:
34m copies sold but sadly that doesn't reflect the online player base today, which I think is what the video is talking about. Things are definitely winding down for Ultimate. This time last year I'd get a game in 20 seconds tops during peak hours, but now it can be a minute or more.

I don't know if Nintendo is going to do a brand new Smash 6 or overhaul Ultimate for Switch 2, but Ultimate is shedding players fast.
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FWIW I don't think Nintendo really ever intends for Smash to be the type of game carried by an active online community. It's not a GAAS, per se, but primarily a traditional game with traditional multiplayer modes and some live service components like the online MP. In that sense it's closer to something like, say, GT7.

The vast bulk of Smash money is made on B2P sales and new character DLCs. And even those jaded by certain aspects of the game are likely to buy the characters, just to see what they're about and build up their collection of fighters for their roster.

Also while not necessarily dinging on playerbase drop-off possibly tied to changes in the game, well, it is the Switch's 8th year on the market. A good chunk of people leaving the game could just be winding down their time on Switch in general as they take to other platforms for the time being, or wait for Switch 2's release and new 1P games with it, like the next Smash Bros.
 
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There's a certain magic Melee had that the series was never quite able to get back.

And I think one reason is simply... the graphics, Melee looked jaw dropping at the time, it was jaw dropping to see Nintendo characters in that level of fidelity for the first time, every game since then had not been at that cutting edge, so it lacks that real at a glance "wow" factor.
 
I don't know, but I have serious complaints about the online being absolutely unplayable for me, it is not just "hard to deal with" it's literally unplayable even in its best conditions. I could deal with broken DLC characters probably if the online wasn't so bad and exploitable which is another complaint, most broken attacks are because they're impossible to react in real time unless you can see the future and play very defensive, which for that I rather just not play at all.
 
I might play more smash than anyone on these forums...

But I don't hate anything about it so wtf is this video even about
 
No idea what OP is talking about. I know a few competitive pro players that still play almost daily and love it. The player base is huge.
 
I've put about 25,000 hours into Melee, but I still think Ultimate is alright.

It's no Melee, though.
Valentines Day Love GIF
 
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
FWIW I don't think Nintendo really ever intends for Smash to be the type of game carried by an active online community.
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Nintendo often tries to downplay competitive Smash because they make mad money from both competitive and casual players, but casual players don't stick around like competitive players do, who are going to show up time and time again no matter what. Selling the idea that Smash can be enjoyed by all ages and skill levels is crucial to Nintendo, and the competitive scene can often be intimidating to casuals, especially when they get decimated by hardcore guys. Thing is, that's how 95% of Smash is represented. Any time you watch Smash on YouTube or Twitch, it's going to be one-on-one, flat stages with no items, being played by guys who can combo, edgeguard and spike in their sleep, which typically isn't how casual players play. There's a disconnect between how Nintendo wants Smash to be seen, and how it's actually played in the limelight, and it's been going on forever. Then again, they probably get a lot of sales from guys who don't play Smash competitively, see the massive pro scene, and want to join in. And also, it's more likely than not that the pros are going to be the ones buying every character in the season passes for labbing, replays and whatnot, as opposed to simply dipping for favourites.

Nintendo and the players get what they want at the end of the day I guess, so everyone is (mostly) happy. Smash is almost always a very attractive package to any gamer.
 
Clickbait video title and thumbnail. Not gonna click this shit. Guess I'll never know about the BETRAYAL. Lucky me.
 
Madflavor said:
Death of local co-op is a big one. When I was a kid my entire extended family would go on a yearly two week vacation to Cape Cod, and we'd rent a huge beach house. I had two brothers and 6 cousins and we played the absolute shit out of the original Super Smash Bros. It was insanely good times.

Online multiplayer doesn't capture that feeling for me. Super Smash Bros used to be this awesome game you play with your buddies and family. Now it's a game where you log in online and get completely destroyed by a bunch of fucking nerds who play the game like it's their profession. You pop into the game excited to throw some pokeballs, and do a Falcon Punch, and then you quickly realize you don't actually know how to play the game after getting defeated in such a swift and surgical manner.
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dragonyeuw said:
That's a huge one. A perfect Saturday night with the boys for me back in 1998 was Goldeneye, WCW Revenge( wasn't a Smash player back then, but the sentiment would obviously apply to that game or something like MK64 as well), alcohol and pizza.
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Guys…

You're blaming "the death" of Nintendo's local multiplayer on…the game itself?

tom-cruise-what.gif
 
Dunno about anyone else, but I tuned out after slap in the face "random trip " Brawl, so no idea. I just play Melee if I want to enjoy Smash.
 
March Climber said:
Guys…

You're blaming "the death" of Nintendo's local multiplayer on…the game itself?

tom-cruise-what.gif
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I was talking generally about the death of local co-op which I made the point of bolding that part of the posters comment I replied to, not pinning it on this game or any other for that matter. So I don't know if my comment somehow infers I'm criticizing this game for the death of co-op, but that wasn't the intent.
 
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Neff said:
I don't hate it. Played it yesterday in fact. It's easily the best Smash game Nintendo have made. I've got 2000+ hours on the damn thing and by and large I think it's the best in almost every category. I even think it's shockingly well balanced for a game with an eye-watering 89 characters. Sure, there are some characters who are really un-fun to fight, but there's no matchup I dread, no tech which I feel is unfairly broken. I would say the upper-mid tier of Ultimate has many insufferably toxic desperados who routinely rely on wifi, lag-switches and cheap setups to exploit said lag, and they're best just blocked. Once you get to Elite Smash games are mostly ethernet-based, stable, and a great deal more enjoyable and sportsmanlike.

The video does bring up a good point though, and that's that a lot of players have the mindset of simply not engaging, even with characters who don't support a ranged style of play. And it's not just a Smash problem, it's seen a lot more in other fighting games now. While it's not uncommon to see neutral stalemate in high level play, it's due to players being wary of a million bad situations they might step into, based on lots of experience and knowledge. And so you get beginners and low level players simply taking the safest option and refusing to commit, because they assume it's the optimum way to play. I think we're due for some sort of anti-camping mechanic to discourage it. Tekken 8 tried to address it by allowing everyone in the game to hit like a fucking truck, but it's kind of had the opposite effect because engaging is potentially so risky. It's an interesting problem to solve.
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metatards is an issue in every game nowadays. I remember playing Chun Li in SF4 online, and she was relatively low tier, and just took every matchup as it came. I ended up getting very good at the idiot Sagat players I encountered even though Sagat was just a vastly superior character in that game.

But nowadays you can go online and see the meta for any game at any moment and people just hew close to that.
 
DownLikeBCPowder said:
Dunno about anyone else, but I tuned out after slap in the face "random trip " Brawl, so no idea. I just play Melee if I want to enjoy Smash.
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You're missing out. The insane roster size and various match ups you can have is something every Smash fan should experience at least once . That's not even including the stellar OST. You should really give it a try, even if you have to sail the high seas.
 
Gambit2483 said:
You're missing out. The insane roster size and various match ups you can have is something every Smash fan should experience at least once . That's not even including the stellar OST. You should really give it a try, even if you have to sail the high seas.
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It isn't about sailing the high seas, it's just I felt after Melee the direction they were taking the game was not the direction I wanted. I think I tried one after Brawl and it just doesn't feel right. Melee feels the tightest. I want an updated Melee, but that exact engine.

But perhaps one day.
 
I always felt like Smash and Mario Party had a lot in common in terms of strategy/fairness, but I never got too deep in to the series.
 
DownLikeBCPowder said:
It isn't about sailing the high seas, it's just I felt after Melee the direction they were taking the game was not the direction I wanted. I think I tried one after Brawl and it just doesn't feel right. Melee feels the tightest. I want an updated Melee, but that exact engine.

But perhaps one day.
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Trust me, this game feels the best after Melee. It's definitely not as slow as Brawl and feels tighter than Smash 4...man, the Castlevania rep is dammn near worth it alone (if you like the Castlevania series) 😅

Hope you get to try it out someday 👍
 
Gambit2483 said:
Trust me, this game feels the best after Melee. It's definitely not as slow as Brawl and feels tighter than Smash 4...man, the Castlevania rep is dammn near worth it alone (if you like the Castlevania series) 😅

Hope you get to try it out someday 👍
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That must have been what I played then, "Smash 4" - after Brawl?

I like hearing that it's tighter. I can't imagine that it's as tight as Melee, but I will give it a try. My daughter likes to play Melee with me, perhaps we will try out the new one sometime for the fun of it. And of course, I love Castlevania. :)
 
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Also, it seems like people only real care when new characters are getting revealed, I remember the hype for Brawl for over a year, months and months of people speculating about characters and every new character reveal being a big fucking deal.

Then Brawl actually came out and everyone promptly forgot about it.
 
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Red Crayon Aristocrat said:
Also, it seems like people only real care when new characters are getting revealed, I remember the hype for Brawl for over a year, months and months of people speculating about characters and every new character reveal being a big fucking deal.

Then Brawl actually came out and everyone promptly forgot about it.
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Bro, Brawl will forever be remembered (and loved) for the Subspace Emissary. That, and the introduction of 3rd party characters (and the shitty trpping) will forever cement Brawl in people's memories. No one forgot about Brawl.
 
Gambit2483 said:
Bro, Brawl will forever be remembered (and loved) for the Subspace Emissary. That, and the introduction of 3rd party characters (and the shitty trpping) will forever cement Brawl in people's memories. No one forgot about Brawl.
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Maybe no one forgot, but it's not as legendary as Melee, Brawl is old enough now to be a bit nostalgic to people, but in 2008 pretty much by the end of the year people stopped caring.

To be clear, I LIKE Brawl, but Melee does tower above the others, though what I will say is Brawl is certainly talked about a lot more than 4, but there is a certain "wow" factor that it just never quite got back to after Melee.
 
Red Crayon Aristocrat said:
Maybe no one forgot, but it's not as legendary as Melee, Brawl is old enough now to be a bit nostalgic to people, but in 2008 pretty much by the end of the year people stopped caring.

To be clear, I LIKE Brawl, but Melee does tower above the others, though what I will say is Brawl is certainly talked about a lot more than 4, but there is a certain "wow" factor that it just never quite got back to after Melee.
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Historically accurate.
 
I loved the series.
Something changed in ultimate and i became trash. lol So i didnt enjoy it as much- i tend to fall off the ledge and have trouble getting back on with consistency like a n00b
 
Gambit2483 said:
Bro, Brawl will forever be remembered (and loved) for the Subspace Emissary. That, and the introduction of 3rd party characters (and the shitty trpping) will forever cement Brawl in people's memories. No one forgot about Brawl.
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The reason why I haven't bought Ultimate yet and could not get into Smash 4. I personally couldn't care less about the competitive scene. The multiplayer in Brawl was good enough for casual play locally with friends, which is how I like to play these games anyway.
 
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People still absolutely love Ultimate especially in casual crowds. I will say competitively there has just been a real issue of balance since Fighter Pass 2. The video does bring this up but dude makes it sound like 80% of the commentary on the game is negative.

Seriously though characters like Steve need to be reexamined thoroughly. Every character doesn't need be an "honest" character like the straight forwardness of Mario to even guys like Ridley. However there is something to be said about the vast options Steve has because his abilities change so much of what the game is.
 
RomanceDawn said:
Seriously though characters like Steve need to be reexamined thoroughly. Every character doesn't need be an "honest" character like the straight forwardness of Mario to even guys like Ridley. However there is something to be said about the vast options Steve has because his abilities change so much of what the game is.
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I used to be huge into the competitive Smash scene (M2K was my roommate for like 3 years), but mostly played Melee. I got a bit into Ultimate, enough to hold my own competitively, but pretty much gave up on trying to keep up with the meta once Steve came out. Well, actually once Dragon Quest dude came out, but Steve really sealed the deal.
 
Dacvak said:
I used to be huge into the competitive Smash scene (M2K was my roommate for like 3 years), but mostly played Melee. I got a bit into Ultimate, enough to hold my own competitively, but pretty much gave up on trying to keep up with the meta once Steve came out. Well, actually once Dragon Quest dude came out, but Steve really sealed the deal.
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Competitive Melee scene was so amazing.. I loved every minute I spent in it so many years ago. Once Brawl came, seemed like things fractured at least around here and other things drew me away for personal reasons as well.
 
DownLikeBCPowder said:
Competitive Melee scene was so amazing.. I loved every minute I spent in it so many years ago. Once Brawl came, seemed like things fractured at least around here and other things drew me away for personal reasons as well.
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It really was. I wish my old-ass hands could still move as quickly as when I was 20, though! 😂🥲
 
Dacvak said:
It really was. I wish my old-ass hands could still move as quickly as when I was 20, though! 😂🥲
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I hear you man, it literally hurts to play Melee like it should be played. At least, after some time playing anyway, I can easily play half hour or whatever seriously before problems set in, the game is just so demanding on the hands. But I wouldn't trade those nights in GAWes house before tourneys playing all night for anything. Or any of the other memories.
 
Dacvak said:
I used to be huge into the competitive Smash scene (M2K was my roommate for like 3 years), but mostly played Melee. I got a bit into Ultimate, enough to hold my own competitively, but pretty much gave up on trying to keep up with the meta once Steve came out. Well, actually once Dragon Quest dude came out, but Steve really sealed the deal.
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I just realized what you wrote, you were living with M2K?? lol awesome. I'm not used to seeing that in abbreviated form though, so I glazed over it (expecting "Mew2King" lol) Plenty of practice with many characters!

Sadly I don't think I ever met the guy in person, I played against earlier champions like Ken, Azen, people like that and whatnot, but I think by 2006 I was leaving the scene (again, Brawl came) and I didn't know Mew until later watching the scene.
 
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DownLikeBCPowder said:
I just realized what you wrote, you were living with M2K?? lol awesome. I'm not used to seeing that in abbreviated form though, so I glazed over it (expecting "Mew2King" lol) Plenty of practice with many characters!
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Yeah haha. We went to college together (and still managed to play like 8 hours of Smash a day). He's a super good dude, and a gigantic pain in the ass to live with. I love him dearly lol.

In all our time living together, and the thousands upon thousands of matches we played I probably only beat him a few dozen times in legit 1v1 matches. He's such a beast.
 
Dacvak said:
Yeah haha. We went to college together (and still managed to play like 8 hours of Smash a day). He's a super good dude, and a gigantic pain in the ass to live with. I love him dearly lol.

In all our time living together, and the thousands upon thousands of matches we played I probably only beat him a few dozen times in legit 1v1 matches. He's such a beast.
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He's living pretty close to me these days, one day perhaps I can secure a few matches :). All that sounds about what I'd expect honestly (lol). Awesome man!
 
DownLikeBCPowder said:
Historically accurate.
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/v/ was so damn hyped for Brawl, people thought it was going to be the best thing sliced bread... then they just went back to obsessing over Melee.

AngelMuffin said:
My only thing with Ultimate, is where they go from here.
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I feel like it's got one more game in it and where it can go is finally delivering graphics comparable to how groundbreaking Melee looked in 2001, keep in mind the Switch is basically an Xbox 360 in your hands, if the Switch 2 is closer to a PS4, then there's plenty of room for a significant leap graphically.

After that? Whos knows for sure then.
 
Brawl was my favorite, but might be biased because that's the version that I have my fond memories with my college roomates happened.
 
If anything, I don't get the love for Melee. It was my first Smash game, and I genuinely hated it. Played it for a while and never really enjoyed it.
I actually liked Brawl much more. More characters, more casual and party-oriented, a sprawling adventure mode that you could play with friends in some battles.
4 and Ultimate are better. I suck royally at the game, especially since my friends decided they'd go pro and banned items completely. I now have a lifetime hatred for King K. Rool. Still, it's a great game with tons of options. It's just not for me. Everything feels incredibly laggy and stiff for my taste, and the gap between casual and good players is too big to bridge unless you spend a ton of time in it and give literally your all in every match.
 
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