Support NeoGAF

[Darkmakaimura]

I really want to know what aliens think of our movies and television shows like Star Wars and Star Trek?

 

[I_D]

Oh, I would say those aspects we don't know are incredibly significant though, let me make that distinction very clear. We don't even understand the center of a black hole outside of theories.

It doesn't end there: ttps://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/01/14/5-things-we-still-dont-know-about-black-holes-and-2-we-do-after-ligo/?sh=518868764cfb

Having a complete understanding of things is exactly how we exploit them as humans. The Wright brothers used wind tunnels for wings that catered to the understanding of drag and lift. If we had no idea how lift worked, we wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Seems insignificant but can make all the difference. Unfortunately, we've got a looooooong way to go before we have a comparable understanding of a black hole. Not even remotely close to early 1900s physics for flight.

And that's just one aspect, black holes are just the tip of the iceberg of what we don't know.

I legitimately sighed, in real life...
Yes, again, we agree: Technology has a long way to go.

You still seem to be suggesting that scientific-laws can be broken, though.
You seem to be suggesting that mythical future-discoveries can discredit the laws we already have in place.

This is why you are wrong.
They're not called laws for nothing.
They are 100% proven, without any doubts.

Your mythical future-discoveries are not going to change the fact that matter cannot move FTL.
As such, your mythical future-discoveries are not going to change the fact that humanity will never leave our solar system (In our current forms).


Yes. We don't know everything about blackholes (and lots of other things).
But we DO know that they require completely-unachievable levels of matter/energy to create.

Even if we knew every single possible thing there could ever possibly be to know about blackholes, we still won't actually be able to do anything with that information.
Because we DO know that you cannot create more energy than you put into the machine.

In order to create a blackhole, or any other type of spacetime-bendy-thing, we would need an energy-source even stronger than the blackhole, itself; because you cannot create energy from nothing.
This something we know to be true.

As such, there is absolutely no way in even - literally - thousands of years of dedicated development that humans would ever possibly be able to create such a thing.

If you're suggesting that humans could, somehow, create a machine that has the ability to bend spacetime without utilizing the same amount of energy as the objects we already know bend spacetime (Admittedly, maybe slightly streamlined, but not to any realistically-utilizable scale), then you are out of your mind.
If you, somehow, disagree, this conversation is finished. You would no longer be worth responding to.

I agree watching a 747 take off is still science fiction to me

Precisely. This is the problem.

Planes are incredibly-understood.
It doesn't matter that you have no idea how planes fly.
Humanity, itself, has an incredibly-strong understanding of this machine.






You guys need to stop using your ignorance as some type of hope for the future.
It doesn't matter that you don't understand how things work.

Humanity, as a whole, has an extremely-solid understanding of most of the workings of the universe.
Not all of them; admittedly.
Yes, we still have some questions to answer.
That doesn't mean our current answers are wrong.
And it definitely doesn't mean that our perfect-understandings (laws) are wrong.

There is absolutely no way in hell that humanity will ever travel beyond our solar system, unless we completely redefine what the word "humanity" means (Meaning minds inside of computers/robots, basically).
You're just fooling yourselves if you disagree.
It's basic physics, at this point. Like... less than high-school-level.



I'm just repeating myself, at this point.
You guys will either open up a middle school textbook and understand why you're wrong, or you'll just continue to cite random blogs and daydreams as sources.

 

[NikuNashi]

But you mean CT like this?

No but If I did, I'd probably make sure i used equal length bones for the arms and legs, and those femurs sure do look flipped upside-down with the ball joint cut off

Must have been pranksters around 1000 years ago making this then because the mummified skin its encased in it 1000 years old by carbon dating.

Its not old bones covered in plaster cast and glue.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

To be honest it doesn't because I can't control what will happen. Either they'll be good for us and help us advance or they'll destroy us. It will be what it will be and I can't change that.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Must have been pranksters around 1000 years ago making this then because the mummified skin its encased in it 1000 years old by carbon dating.

Its not old bones covered in plaster cast and glue.

However they did it doesn't change the fact its it's a bunch of mismatched bones and an animal skull

 

[Romulus]

You still seem to be suggesting that scientific-laws can be broken, though.
They're not called laws for nothing.

Ever heard of Issac Newton? His law for gravity was thought to be gospel for 400 years by scientists.

If we were arguing this subject back then, you would be telling me Newton's laws couldn't be broken.

Einstein proved him wrong and now his theories are fraying around the edges. It never stops. We find a phenomenon is a space that causes us to rethink and adjust, A physics law can work until it doesn't, then it's back to the drawing board. You are living in a sliver of time and think all your fav scientists have it all figured out, but even their idea of FTL is an opinion. They will tell you it's not possible in current physics, but not impossible forever. Did you know FTL travel is still being studied actively? Why would physicists study it if it was some concrete law that everyone believed and couldn't challenge? Issac Newton says hello btw.

You talk in absolutes constantly. This is impossible because X, Y, Z, but go on in the next breath to admit we have a long way to go in science and tech.

Also, you seem extremely upset sometimes, using all caps and talking down to people(not just myself apparently). You seem insulted by others' opinions too. I don't see many scientists with your attitude, they're usually open-minded and willing to accept the laws of physics can be rethought.

 

[CYRU5_DA_GR34T]

Not scared, if they're humanoid but nothing like actual humans interactions would probably be interesting (unless they're like murderous man eaters then no), humans suck sometimes

 

[MilkyJoe]

I really want to know what aliens think of our movies and television shows like Star Wars and Star Trek?

They probably agree that JJ fucked them up

 

[JimmyRustler]

Fuck no, I’m all for Mass Effect universe shit. Bring it on.

 

[BlackTron]

I really want to know what aliens think of our movies and television shows like Star Wars and Star Trek?

Historical Documents

 

[I_D]

It never stops. We find a phenomenon is a space that causes us to rethink and adjust, A physics law can work until it doesn't, then it's back to the drawing board.

This is why you are wrong. You're just falling for the optimism bias, again.
Explain, without using faith as you evidence, how humans of the future will find answers that we cannot find now.


Also, Newton made it very clear that he couldn't answer every question. Einstein said the same, as do our current scientists (hence this discussion).
So no, I would not be claiming scientists of the past were gospel.

But there are certain things that we know to be true, without question.
You're acting like we'll somehow discover that fire isn't actually hot, or that we don't actually need air to survive, or some other equally-wrong idea.
Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean we don't know anything.

 

[Romulus]

Explain, without using faith as you evidence, how humans of the future will find answers that we cannot find now.

Faith has zero to do with it. It's called history, common sense, and perspective. Einstien's model is closer than Newton's and so on. Just because you won't be alive to see science close the distance on many of these mysteries doesn't matter. And I never said everything would be answered.

Also, Newton made it very clear that he couldn't answer every question. Einstein said the same, as do our current scientists (hence this discussion).
So no, I would not be claiming scientists of the past were gospel.

No one is saying they can answer every question. That's irrelevant to Newton's law of gravity being broken and my point. You said scientific laws could not be broken. That is absolutely false. Newton's law was accepted and taught in universities everywhere and not challenged by other physicists for hundreds of years later.

You're acting like we'll somehow discover that fire isn't actually hot, or that we don't actually need air to survive, or some other equally-wrong idea.
Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean we don't know anything.

I disagree. What you think I'm acting like has nothing to do with what I've actually said or believe. That's irrelevant.

I won't be responding to more of your posts. You've dodged most of my points anyway and I doubt you can admit where you're wrong. I see you as one of those people that took a strong stance and you're incapable of pivoting from it. Have a nice day.

 

[IDKFA]

Explain, without using faith as you evidence, how humans of the future will find answers that we cannot find now.

I'm not sure if you worded this correctly.

There are many questions that we don't have the answers for that will be answered by future generations. There are many questions we just can't answer with our current understanding of physics and quantum physics.

There is absolutely no way in hell that humanity will ever travel beyond our solar system, unless we completely redefine what the word "humanity" means (Meaning minds inside of computers/robots, basically).
You're just fooling yourselves if you disagree.
It's basic physics, at this point. Like... less than high-school-level.

Why will we never leave our star system?

 

[Badlucktroll]

Any classic 'grey' alien 'body' can easily be dismissed as a hoax. The imagery comes originally from sci fi novels of the 19th century, and was further propagated by sci fi movies and folklore of the 50s & 60s. It's an entirely human invention.

In fact, any alien creature that is predominantly humanoid in appearance can be dismissed. Why on earth would aliens look like humans? We have such a massive diversity of life on this planet alone. The idea that intelligent alien life would look like us is a really great example of the ego of man

We make gods in our image, and aliens also.

Was Betty and Barney Hill the first documented abduction case involing the greys?

 

[I_D]

Why will we never leave our star system?

The distances are too vast.


Obviously science still has a long way to go.
But people in this thread are pretending that we can rewrite all of our observations of the universe, with some sort of mythical re-understandings that future-humans will somehow discover.
It's nonsense.

You've dodged most of my points anyway and I doubt you can admit where you're wrong. I see you as one of those people that took a strong stance and you're incapable of pivoting from it. Have a nice day.

That's because all of your points are "We might one day..."

You have nothing of substance.

 

[Kraz]

A primal awe inspired fear of the vast implications from the appearance of a fundamentally more intelligent and developed lifeform. Even entertainment influenced dreams of communicating with nonthreatening civilized peer level alien intelligence in conventional settings can be unnerving.

 

[Days like these...]

I imagine that's the underlying reason why some are so adamant that even if they exist they couldn't find us or travel to us.

 

[IDKFA]

The distances are too vast.


Obviously science still has a long way to go.
But people in this thread are pretending that we can rewrite all of our observations of the universe, with some sort of mythical re-understandings that future-humans will somehow discover.
It's nonsense.

They're too vast now with current technology, but in the future it will be possible. We have people working on the problem right now. If it was totally impossible then the research would be pointless.

 

[FunkMiller]

They're too vast now with current technology, but in the future it will be possible. We have people working on the problem right now. If it was totally impossible then the research would be pointless.

While I admire your optimism, there are fundamental rules of the universe that can't be broken without the ability to warp spacetime itself (which, unlike Star Trek would have it, is probably impossible).

We will achieve speeds that will enable us to travel much further than we can now, but we won't be able to go anywhere near far enough.

You can look to that as a good probable reason as to why there's no sign of intelligent alien life, as far as we're concerned. It's just not possible for physical matter to travel fast enough and far enough in any kind of sensible time period. No alien species has ever been able to develop the technology to do it, because it's impossible.

 

[IDKFA]

While I admire your optimism, there are fundamental rules of the universe that can't be broken without the ability to warp spacetime itself (which, unlike Star Trek would have it, is probably impossible).

We will achieve speeds that will enable us to travel much further than we can now, but we won't be able to go anywhere near far enough.

You can look to that as a good probable reason as to why there's no sign of intelligent alien life, as far as we're concerned. It's just not possible for physical matter to travel fast enough and far enough in any kind of sensible time period. No alien species has ever been able to develop the technology to do it, because it's impossible.

You're talking about FTL travel, which as far as we know so far is impossible without warping space-time or using worm holes. However, there are other methods of interstellar travel that wouldn't require FTL speeds to accomplish. That is why scientists and engineers around the world, including at NASA and JPL are putting serious research into Interstellar travel. If they thought it was outright impossible then they wouldn't be putting in the time, effort and money.

We're not a the apex of technology and scientific understanding. Far from it. We still have a lot to learn and discover, and with those discoveries we'll be able to resolve problems that aren't possible today.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Must have been pranksters around 1000 years ago making this then because the mummified skin its encased in it 1000 years old by carbon dating.

Its not old bones covered in plaster cast and glue.

The "researcher" who brought this up has a long history of hoax and fraud. Who knows who and in what conditions tested it. Heck, he could've just handed the researcher a bit of real mummy just to get that piece of paper: a lot of labs don't do actual field research, just analyze samples sent to them.

 

[FunkMiller]

You're talking about FTL travel, which as far as we know so far is impossible without warping space-time or using worm holes. However, there are other methods of interstellar travel that wouldn't require FTL speeds to accomplish. That is why scientists and engineers around the world, including at NASA and JPL are putting serious research into Interstellar travel. If they thought it was outright impossible then they wouldn't be putting in the time, effort and money.

Link please? Because breaking the speed of light is impossible. Interstellar travel would require speeds in excess of the speed of light, so I'd like to see what they're up to! Proxima Centauri is the closest star, and that's over 4 light years away. And that's presuming a craft can fly at just under the speed of light, which is probably functionally impossible due to the way spacetime would warp, preventing accurate navigation. And then there's the issue of the energy required.

And if you're talking the closest stars that could feasibly have intelligent alien life, then the distances are much, much farther! Our radio signals have travelled 200 light years away, so you can pretty much discount any alien life existing within that tiny bubble.

 

[Darchaos]

Im actually in an UFO right now and getting probed, i mean they could had bught me dinner first atleast.....meh 4/10 i would say.

 

[Romulus]

Link please? Because breaking the speed of light is impossible. Interstellar travel would require speeds in excess of the speed of light, so I'd like to see what they're up to! Proxima Centauri is the closest star, and that's over 4 light years away. And that's presuming a craft can fly at just under the speed of light, which is probably functionally impossible due to the way spacetime would warp, preventing accurate navigation. And then there's the issue of the energy required.

And if you're talking the closest stars that could feasibly have intelligent alien life, then the distances are much, much farther! Our radio signals have travelled 200 light years away, so you can pretty much discount any alien life existing within that tiny bubble.

Nasa is working on a drive that goes 99% the speed of light I read years ago. Not sure how feasible or possible it'll be.

But there are varying opinions on FTL travel in the community. And we're basing it Einstein, who has been wrong before.


Alien life within 200 light years. We would have to assume they want or could respond. Those are 2 huge issues.
Not to mention they could be far more advanced and are already here in the form of drones or something else.

 

[Romulus]

This could explain another way they travel great distances. Eventually we'll crack the code of immortality. Some are saying within 10 years and I don't believe that but let's say 500 years to be safe and achieve this reliably. Very difficult to predict what supporting technology will look like then too. Look at 500 years ago compared to now.

Our laws of science were saying all kinds of things were impossible that weren't.

But since we're alive in this very moment all laws are 100% concrete. Lol

Humans Are on Track to Achieve Immortality in 7 Years, Futurist Says

Hope you’re ready to live forever.

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[FunkMiller]

Im actually in an UFO right now and getting probed, i mean they could had bught me dinner first atleast.....meh 4/10 i would say.

That's a 1978 station wagon, and those aren't aliens.

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

So, after 326 posts, how's your stance now OP?

D Days like these...

 

[Days like these...]

So, after 326 posts, how's your stance now OP?

D Days like these...

I don't know It doesn't really matter to me. Unless they came to annihilate us that would kinda suck but I'm not too bothered by the possibility.

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

I don't know It doesn't really matter to me. Unless they came to annihilate us that would kinda suck but I'm not too bothered by the possibility.

Who are they in your mind? I mean aliens duh. But although it's quite abstract so you have an internal view of "them" ?

And say they did came to annihilate us, for what reason would that be?

Your thoughts?

 

[Squarehard]

 

[FunkMiller]

Nasa is working on a drive that goes 99% the speed of light I read years ago. Not sure how feasible or possible it'll be.

But there are varying opinions on FTL travel in the community. And we're basing it Einstein, who has been wrong before.

I'm pretty sure they're not. Unless you want to link to it?

Do you mean the ion propulsion drive they've been developing? Only that's way, way, way slower than the speed of light.

 

[IDKFA]

Link please? Because breaking the speed of light is impossible. Interstellar travel would require speeds in excess of the speed of light, so I'd like to see what they're up to! Proxima Centauri is the closest star, and that's over 4 light years away. And that's presuming a craft can fly at just under the speed of light, which is probably functionally impossible due to the way spacetime would warp, preventing accurate navigation. And then there's the issue of the energy required.

And if you're talking the closest stars that could feasibly have intelligent alien life, then the distances are much, much farther! Our radio signals have travelled 200 light years away, so you can pretty much discount any alien life existing within that tiny bubble.

You're mixing up FTL travel and interstellar travel. They're both different. Nobody is seriously working on something like an Alcubierre Drive, but interstellar travel is different. For example, Breakthrough Starshot is our first steps into interstellar travel by starting with nano craft. There are multiple other research projects going on that are looking at forms of interstellar travel (not FTL).

Everything else you've said about FTL travel is correct for modern humanity, but it will be a problem we'll fix in the future.

 

[FeralEcho]

Y'all mofos scared of whats up in the sky and not whats lurking underneath our oceans

like 80% of our oceans are unknown to us...

 

[FunkMiller]

You're mixing up FTL travel and interstellar travel. They're both different. Nobody is seriously working on something like an Alcubierre Drive, but interstellar travel is different. For example, Breakthrough Starshot is our first steps into interstellar travel by starting with nano craft. There are multiple other research projects going on that are looking at forms of interstellar travel (not FTL).

Everything else you've said about FTL travel is correct for modern humanity, but it will be a problem we'll fix in the future.

This entire thread is about us mixing with intelligent alien species. Any interstellar technology we're working on will still be at a snail's pace, galactically speaking. We'll never be able to go fast enough or far enough to come into contact with any other alien life... if it does exist. The same applies to them going in the other direction. The scale and size of the universe, both in physical and temporal terms precludes it.

 

[West Texas CEO]

like 80% of our oceans are unknown to us...

I'm pretty sure it's mostly water.

 

[FeralEcho]

I'm pretty sure it's mostly water.

Until one day the great one awakens and we're all fucked

 

[West Texas CEO]

Until one day the great one awakens and we're all fucked

hasn't he already retired?

 

[Romulus]

I'm pretty sure they're not. Unless you want to link to it?

Do you mean the ion propulsion drive they've been developing? Only that's way, way, way slower than the speed of light.

NASA scientists claim warp drive may soon become reality

Warp drive is said to possess the capability of having a propulsion system that can travel faster than light speed travel.

www.thebrighterside.news

NASA is attempting to take its grasp of the stars even further, as it has been established that the scientists working for the space company are developing a warp drive.

There was also something else I can't remember that was in the 40-60% speed of light, which would get us pretty far with looming immortality in the next 500 years. It wasn't Nasa though

 

[Days like these...]

Who are they in your mind? I mean aliens duh. But although it's quite abstract so you have an internal view of "them" ?

And say they did came to annihilate us, for what reason would that be?

Your thoughts?

I don't know who "they" are. As for your second question I can't speak to why anyone does anything other than myself and even then sometimes I can't.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Will probably be able to bypass light speed by eventually folding space or even discovering another dimension that would be like compressed space in our universe and allows us to travel vast distances very quickly. Think something like Slipspace or even nicer the Warp.

I don't think physically traveling through space is possible. We're going to have to bypass it so to speak.

 

[Yoboman]

Very close up of the little bollocks

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

Crater earth is where it's at boys.

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

I don't know who "they" are. As for your second question I can't speak to why anyone does anything other than myself and even then sometimes I can't.

I'm having a hard time.

As well with your response.

Like... You have no idea since you have none as well (regarding my second question)?

 

[Badlucktroll]

I'm pretty sure they're not. Unless you want to link to it?

Do you mean the ion propulsion drive they've been developing? Only that's way, way, way slower than the speed of light.

My guess is that humanity will probably be able to reach Alpha Centauri and maybe even Barnard’s Star in a lifetime. Then the technology will get better and that will be used as a springboard to other stars. But for humanity to come up with some sort of FTL drive that makes the distance between stars not count? I dunno.

 

[Days like these...]

I'm having a hard time.

As well with your response.

Like... You have no idea since you have none as well (regarding my second question)?

Correct

 

[West Texas CEO]

My guess is that humanity will probably be able to reach Alpha Centauri and maybe even Barnard’s Star in a lifetime. Then the technology will get better and that will be used as a springboard to other stars. But for humanity to come up with some sort of FTL drive that makes the distance between stars not count? I dunno.

Voyager spacecraft should reach Alpha Centauri in the next 20 years. Not too shabby.

 

[IDKFA]

This entire thread is about us mixing with intelligent alien species. Any interstellar technology we're working on will still be at a snail's pace, galactically speaking. We'll never be able to go fast enough or far enough to come into contact with any other alien life... if it does exist. The same applies to them going in the other direction. The scale and size of the universe, both in physical and temporal terms precludes it.

There isn't anything ruling out future generations solving the FTL problem. Solutions for this have been brought up over the decades. The most well known is the Alcubierre drive that warps space-time by generating a bubble of negative energy. However, this requires exotic forms of matter that we currently don't have or might not even exist.

A few years ago Göttingen University astrophysicist Erik Lentz proposed a way of solving this problem by creating a warp bubble with positive energy sources. Although still theoretical and no real solution is on the horizon in the next few years and some people have pointed out possible issues with Lentz's design, it shows that real people are trying to figure out ways to fix the FTL problem without breaking the laws of physics.

Who's to say how far we'll get to achieving this goal in the next 100 - 200 years?

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

Lol at all this space travel BS when we live in paradise.

FACTS.

Perhaps those "geniuses" and top of the umbrella companies like BlackRock Etc, etc should shift their focus. They blatantly don't. I wonder why.

Oh sorry for going off topic let's get back to Alpha Centauri.

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

Such a fucking farce excuse my french.

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

Voyager spacecraft should reach Alpha Centauri in the next 20 years. Not too shabby.

I'm ready