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Donald Trump on illegal Israeli settlements: "Keep going"
- Thread starter shinobi602
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Abstrusity
Member
Woah, woah, woah. "Illegal" settlements? That sounds like some anti-semitism right there!
/s
/s
Nope, he just picked up a bunch of conservative Christians with that one. If you don't support Israel, it means you country will burn in hell...or something like that.
It's not hate.
I'm all for a Israel AND Palestine but building settlements exacerbates the problems they're having.
Obama knows it. Israel knows that. Trump should know it.
Great job generalizing. Have you conducted a poll to verify your statement?
Orbis Tabula
Member
I'm convinced that his earlier statement about neutrality on Israel was made because he didn't know anything about it. Like, not just that he hadn't recently been briefed on the details, but that he actually had no idea of what exactly the Israel-Palestinian conflict was about, what our country's position and history there was, and what he was supposed to say. So he figured "Hey, I'll do like I always do and bullshit an answer that sounds reasonable. I'll just say I'll be neutral! Who could be upset about me being neutral?" Little did he know...
You're assuming he actually understands anything about Israel.
He doesn't. He's just being a populist- Again.
A much more eloquent restating of my general point, thank you.
That's the same rationalization Hillary supporters use on this forum, so I don't get what's the big deal about what Trump said this time.
No, it's not like that. Go look at the number of Israelis who have been killed by Hamas in 2016. Or 2015. Or 2014.
The same. Florida is very important.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Basically.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
this has to be a fucking joke. if anything, we've been far too charitable and meddling in their affairs. why the fuck are we still even involved? what do we gain by kissing their asses constantly? if the answer is the same old "they're a great ally in the region" then why do they need protection if they're such a badass strong ally?
shit makes no sense. Trump needs to be called out on his "we need to mind our own business" rhetoric he threw out there recently. then again he doesn't understand the concept of being a hypocrite. just saying whatever gets votes.
But u know there were some jew living in Jerusalem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine
The US doesn't meddle in the Middle East in order to support Israel, they support Israel in order to meddle in the Middle East.
You have your cause and effect backwards.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I wish I had the time to write an extended and informative reply.
Let me just say: news media and education have failed you if this is what you believe.
Abstrusity
Member
Nonono, see, we have to protect Israel so we can bring about the Kingdom of God within 1000 years, so the Second Coming will actually happen.
Well I did start off by saying I probably didn't know what I was talking about! There are so many layers and it's like I have to go back to the beginning of time to make sense of it. And our schools teach us practically nothing about this stuff. I see things like bin Laden's letter to America and it makes me think that things would be way less tense if Israel was never founded there.
LegendofLex
Member
This assumes that his voting bloc is morally consistent and applies the same principles everywhere and to everyone.
The Albatross
Member
I think that this post is veiled antisemitism. Exchanging the word "Jews" for "Zionists," because both Hillary Clinton and Trump spent time in New York, a city known for having a large Jewish population, so their sensibilities have been corrupted by wealthy Jews.
It just fits the antisemitic stereotypes. Despite that Clinton and Trump are surrounded by wealthy people from New York in most political issues, there's something insidious and powerful about wealthy Jews that trick otherwise sensible gentiles into supporting their world-eating Zionist philosophy.
It's not that it isn't broadly true (wealthy people have all sorts of influence on our politicians), but the Jews are given a greater power of corruption and conspiratorial merit than other lobbyists from different cultural backgrounds. For sure, there's a lot of wealthy Germans who live in New York, a lot of wealthy British in New York, wealthy Irish in New York, wealthy Arabs in New York, and so on. New York is the quintessential melting pot city that has wealthy people from all countries and all backgrounds living in it. Trump and Clinton, having lived in New York and been powerful people in New York, have likely been surrounded by wealthy Germans, Chinese, British, Irish, French, Japanese, Spanish, and what have you, throughout their entire lives.
Yet it's always the wealthy New York Jews who are the ones to pervert American sensibilities.
Mr. Giggles
Member
Everyday?
Hamas kills Israelis everyday? What bullshit.
If this was the case the israeli government would be screaming it from the mountain tops with continuous incursions into Palestinian territory
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
So that's your main takeaway from reading that letter from start to finish? Sorry but I call bullshit.
I'm not quite clear what the point you're making is.
When I read it years ago that was my main takeaway, yes. I'll read it again when I have time as I'm sure there's more to the story.
The Albatross
Member
I did, it was very scientific. The most scientific.
The findings were that ISIS is the most despised, and Israel is a close a second. Electronic Arts was third, people who tip at restaurants were 4th. Rounding out the top 5 was an exact tie between Bethesda and Al Qaeda.
Otherwise, welcome to the internet. Feel free to quote the other 75 posts in this thread that have a generalization.
Abstrusity
Member
Yeaah, if anything, Al-Qaeda's westward turn was a result of being abandoned. CIA trained 'em all to fight Russia as a proxy(muh Taliban), then we kinda left them like that with war torn areas and ignored their pleas for help. We would later be in Kuwait and Iraq for Desert Storm and Shield, and again refuse to fix up anything else. Lots of disaffected youths, plenty of dead civilians, and infrastructure trashed...WE created the very conditions for the terrorism over the last 30 years. Our efforts at nation building displaced millions and killed so, so many, and all the while the American people were either not told of it, or told nice tidy lies. "They hate us for our freedom!"
The cause for unrest in the Middle East is tied most strongly to the US, THEN to intra-Islamic disagreements, THEN to Israel.
GameAddict411
Member
Didn't he say something negative about Israel at the beginning of the primaries?
edit: and the US didn't treat Israel well? Is he that ignorant about how Israel was created or who shields them from UN for breaking international laws?
edit: and the US didn't treat Israel well? Is he that ignorant about how Israel was created or who shields them from UN for breaking international laws?
The only really big deal about this is that for some reason Trump's supporters claimed he was "different" on Israel even though his record showed otherwise.
But Trump supporters being supremely gullible is nothing new. Just look at how many think his healthcare ideas are so much nicer than the other Republicans'.
Yep he deffo lost my vote. The only issue that could have made me not back him. Turns out he's not that different from Hillary after all. Same side of same coin. Also being funded by same people.
DragonSworne
Banned
Huh? Don't most wealthy Jewish people living in America have strong ties to Israel more so than other ethnic groups do with their homeland?
It's like in their religion...
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
NullPointer
Member
Truth. I don't see anything surprising here.
radios shipping overview
Member
It's amazing how a certain school of thought justifies any and all Israeli actions in Palestine because of rockets.
Which people would that be?
The Albatross
Member
No, most wealthy Jewish people in America do not have strong ties to Israel. This is completely made up (not saying it's made up by you, but it's a fabricated widely held belief).
There are certainly wealthy Jewish people in the United States who do have ties to Israel, just like there are wealthy Japanese people who have ties to Japan, or wealthy Germans who have ties to Germany, or wealthy Kuwaitis who have ties to Kuwait, or wealthy Irish people with ties to Ireland. It is also true that many Jewish Americans have visited Israel, just like how many Irish-Americans have visited Ireland, or Greek Americans have visited Greece, or many Indian Americans have visited India. On the religious side, many Catholics have visited the Vatican. As an American with Irish background who was raised Catholic, I've both visited Ireland and Rome
But most Jewish people living in America have no ties to Israel. Most wealthy Jewish people have no ties to Israel. It's not part of their religion. There is no part of the Judaism that is practiced in America that dictates that Jews should support the political entity of Israel. This is, somehow, the mythic power that Judaism and Jewry are granted over every other religion or culture in the country, and while the people who believe this aren't necessarily motivated by antisemitism (e.g., they harbor no ill will towards Jews, Judaism, or any other part of Jewish culture), it's a belief that is seeded by antisemitism... That Jews or people with Jewish backgrounds (who are a very smell minority of Americans and also hold a wide variety of political opinions) are able to corrupt American politics in a way that no other people are able to do. Also, Jewish people don't eat Christian babies during passover. Thankfully this belief has mostly been extinguished in the US and Europe over the last 40 years.
*edit*
Adding a point here after thinking about it... I do think it's fitting that a thread about Trump brings up the divisiveness that many people think about when it comes to Jews. Trump has led to this huge increase in skepticism and distrust about people who have a Latin American background living in the United States, and something you said at the beginning of your post "don't most Jewish people living in America..." is emblematic of Trump's racism towards people from Latin America, but spun against the Jewish diaspora. "Jewish people living in America" are Americans, just as Latin American people living in America are Americans, just as Saudi Arabian people living in America are Americans, and the idea that an American with, say, Guatamalean background has a true allegiance to Guatamala, or an American with Saudi background has a true allegiance to Saudi Arabia, or that an American with a Jewish background (religious or cultural) has a true allegiance to Israel is very off base and motivated by xenophobia.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
Wow, he's a villain
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I'm pretty sure Hillary has been very against Israeli settlements in the past. I don't know what she's saying now, but she definitely wasn't in favor, and wanted some kind of peace. She had her frustrations with Netanyahu over this as well. Of course, that didn't stop the US from being the only country to be opposed and veto a UN resolution.
Again, I don't know what she's saying about it now.
Again, I don't know what she's saying about it now.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Doesn't matter who wins, the USA will continue enabling Israel.
Thank you. I had a much less polite reply typed but decided it probably wasn't worth it. The ignorance that pops up regarding Jews, Romani, SA, etc. on this fucking forum.
Jag
Member
Only the Sith deal in absolutes, Tross.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Fuck him
Father_Brain
Banned
Wealthy American Jews with reactionary views on Israel have amassed significant power in the ranks of both the Democratic and GOP donor classes. This is an obvious fact and there is nothing anti-Semitic or conspiratorial about pointing this out.
And yes, many American Jews - certainly not a majority, but a disproportionately wealthy and influential minority - do care more about Israel than any other domestic or foreign policy issue. This is also an obvious fact.
It's evident that you didn't grow up in the American Jewish community, because this is absolute nonsense. It certainly doesn't describe any of the Hebrew schools or Jewish summer camps I went to as a kid.
The American Jewish establishment - as in major Jewish organizations and institutions, not American Jews in general - is overwhelmingly aligned with a not particularly liberal form of Zionism, one in which any critical discussion of the morality of the wars in Gaza or questioning the narrative of the terrifying Iranian nuclear threat is verboten.
And yes, many American Jews - certainly not a majority, but a disproportionately wealthy and influential minority - do care more about Israel than any other domestic or foreign policy issue. This is also an obvious fact.
It's evident that you didn't grow up in the American Jewish community, because this is absolute nonsense. It certainly doesn't describe any of the Hebrew schools or Jewish summer camps I went to as a kid.
The American Jewish establishment - as in major Jewish organizations and institutions, not American Jews in general - is overwhelmingly aligned with a not particularly liberal form of Zionism, one in which any critical discussion of the morality of the wars in Gaza or questioning the narrative of the terrifying Iranian nuclear threat is verboten.
That's true, but doesn't stop a bunch of other people from being anti-Semitic. Go back and reread some posts. It's disgusting, honestly and I normally don't care about this stuff.
Jag
Member
Why single out Jews? Why not say "Wealthy Americans with reactionary views on Israel have amassed significant power in the ranks of both the Democratic and GOP donor classes."
When you make a statement that has been used for 100s of years to purge Jews it is anti-semitic. You can make statements about other races or ethnic groups that may be factually correct yet still be racist. As a matter of fact, that's a hallmark feature of Trump supporters.
Like how he encourages land grabbing then is shocked at any retaliation for it.
"Why are they angry?" - while they mistreat an entire nation inhumanely and slowly rob them of their heritage and identity.
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