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[AniHawk]

How can a game that in your own words "always seemed like it was on the verge of something great" be a 4/10?

well, for one, I subscribe to the "5 is average, use the whole 10 point scale" thing. I gave the same score to Metroid Prime. I don't think either one is a bad game (Heavy Rain is a bad game), but there's definitely more I disliked than I liked.

As for the quote, what I meant was that there seemed to be good ideas just sitting right in front of them, and if they were used, could be really fantastic (like that level switcheroo, except more original), and instead we got mediocrity at best or just some pretty visuals. I mean, a game where the entire concept was really about interacting with the background in new and inventive ways. Or a game where the majority of it is spent in silhouettes, really making color and shapes important wrt the level design.

Comparing the game unfavorably to the original NSMB is just a low blow. For all its flaws DKCR spanks that bore-a-thon in just about every conceivable way.

NSMB was boring, but it didn't have the control problems DKCR had, nor the low lows DKCR, despite also not having the high highs DKCR had.

 

[AniHawk]

I dunno man, I have a hard time to take your control issues seriously. Ever heard of learning phase -> reward? Anyway, even if that stuff would have bothered me I doubt it would have clouded my vision to an extent where I completely overlook the brilliance of the game. I highly recommend playing it. It smokes every other platformer I have played this year.

You should really get around to playing Super Meat Boy and Super Mario Galaxy 2 then.

 

[DieNgamers]

4/10? Oh, that's harsh! You've got your reasons but I don't think I agree with any of them. DKC:R may just be the best game Nintendo has put out since Pikmin or Metroid Prime 1, imo. The only thing that's missing is Rare's grim humor.

 

[fabprems]

Anyway, my final thoughts here.

tl;dr: reaches a high point late in the game, but other issues set it back. It's not a bad game, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Just read your review, and then your SMB review, and I found that quite funny.

Then I read the metroid prime review. And it wasn't that funny after all.

 

[Windom Earle]

You should really get around to playing Super Meat Boy and Super Mario Galaxy 2 then.

So you think SMG2 has better controls than DKCR? :lol That game also has so many areas that are no fun at all. Level design in DKCR is so much better. I can see why some people could hate the rocket/cart areas though.

I have played the Meat Boy trial game and it didn't really click with me.

NSMB was boring, but it didn't have the control problems DKCR had, nor the low lows DKCR, despite also not having the high highs DKCR had.

NSMB controls are floaty as hell, which means the very core of the controls is fucked up. I guess we have VERY different priorities in games.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

we're really going to start comparing apples and oranges?

 

[AniHawk]

So you think SMG2 has better controls than DKCR? :lol That game also has so many areas that are no fun at all. Level design in DKCR is so much better.

Mario is way easier to control. Part of it is that I can save him from doing something if I overshot it by spinning in midair. You're fucked in DKCR. Especially with that collision detection.

I forgot to talk about the collision detection. Man. There were times when I would barely nudge the top corner of a platform I was jumping onto and Donkey Kong would bounce back like he'd hit a wall head-on

Spoiler

(apply directly to the forehead)

. And then there were times where I was very clearly descending on an enemy, and because I touched like, the tail feather or an ear, it would hurt Donkey Kong.

I can see why some people could hate the rocket/cart areas though.

I could live with the rocket levels and that awful control scheme if I was given two hearts like anywhere else in the game. Doing the same in the mine cart areas would make them far less annoying as well.

NSMB controls are floaty as hell, which means the very core of the controls is fucked up. I guess we have VERY different priorities in games.

Well, NSMB's controls are very straightforward. There's really no trial-and-error when it comes to extremely basic things like "jump on this enemy" or "grab this rope."

 

[EatChildren]

One day Retro will make a game you'll love, Ani. One day. You'll see.

 

[AniHawk]

One day Retro will make a game you'll love, Ani. One day. You'll see.

I liked Metroid Prime 3.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

well, for one, I subscribe to the "5 is average, use the whole 10 point scale" thing. I gave the same score to Metroid Prime. I don't think either one is a bad game, but there's definitely more bad than good.

As for the quote, what I meant was that there seemed to be good ideas just sitting right in front of them, and if they were used, could be really fantastic (like that level switcheroo, except more original), and instead we got mediocrity at best or just some pretty visuals. I mean, a game where the entire concept was really about interacting with the background in new and inventive ways. Or a game where the majority of it is spent in silhouettes, really making color and shapes important wrt the level design.

That still paints the picture that the game is below average though, which I personally think does it a considerable disservice. I can't really follow your thoughts about the level design, which I've found thus far mostly ranges from good to great. As for ideas or mechanics that went underutilized, I also find your pessimism unfair. Sure, it's always easy to imagine that much further beyond what a game already accomplishes (if one has an imagination to begin with that is), but you also have to evaluate it in terms of how well it fulfills what it sets out to achieve, and by that measure I think DKCR is pretty amazing overall.

Sure, certain concepts or mechanics could have been taken further (and perhaps will be if a sequel is ever set in motion), but on the flip side DKCR does a great job mixing things up. I enjoy that they don't drive every gameplay concept that's introduced into the ground. The amount of individually tailored events contained throughout each world and that it continually throws new ones at you is part of the charm, whereas something like NSMB quickly became redundant, particularly if you had any familiarity with the old games. Comparatively DKCR goes out on a limb and shows true creative spirit much more often. In this regard I think it trumps even NSMBW, and I dare say handily.

Additionally, I think the level design is nicely layered and generally tightly knit. The differences between casually completing a level, collecting all the items, or doing a speed run make it clear how thoughtful and multifaceted Retro's approach was. I just hope some of that carries over if they ever revisit the Metroid franchise, as I thought Echoes and Corruption's level designs were somewhat regressive compared to Prime in that regard.

NSMB was boring, but it didn't have the control problems DKCR had, nor the low lows DKCR, despite also not having the high highs DKCR had.

NSMB did have some shortcomings with the controls though, mostly of the variety I've come to expect of 2.5 D platformers (in short, a general lack of "tightness"). DKCR's sin is more a product of piling too many commands onto too few inputs, as well as a few weird timing issues. That's not to underplay the impact of those problems however, as they take a consistent toll what's an otherwise very well put together experience.

Other than that I found the basic running and jumping to responsive though. I also haven't found DKCR's quality to be as uneven as you apparently have. It's generally a brilliant game imo, which is what makes the handful of genuinely irritating flaws that much harder to swallow. They seem so clumsy and unnecessary compared to the more accomplished aspects. That's the thing that I find frustrating, and it's also the common thread I perceive between Retro's handling of Metroid and DKC.

I liked Metroid Prime 3.

Better than Prime, as I seem to recall, which makes you crazy. That's alright, I still like you.

 

[EatChildren]

I liked Metroid Prime 3.

Not like, love.

 

[daakusedo]

Joe fenix, how much time to do all the time trials?
For the few I did, that's often in the 20 mn training, but for gold only.

 

[Windom Earle]

Mario is way easier to control. Part of it is that I can save him from doing something if I overshot it by spinning in midair. You're fucked in DKCR. Especially with that collision detection.

Yes, but when you're fucked in DKR you know in 99% of the cases that it's your fault. I guess Mario needs that "safe parachute" to make up for the problems of 3d platforming. Besides that, DKCR still has the jet pack if you need it.

An example for bad SMG2 controls: The Chimp's point challenges. You need to master bouncing off enemies for that and it's infinitely harder than in DKCR.

I forgot to talk about the collision detection. Man. There were times when I would barely nudge the top corner of a platform I was jumping onto and Donkey Kong would bounce back like he'd hit a wall head-on

Spoiler

(apply directly to the forehead)

. And then there were times where I was very clearly descending on an enemy, and because I touched like, the tail feather or an ear, it would hurt Donkey Kong.

True, the hit boxes are rather unforgiving. Don't see the big deal.

Well, NSMB's controls are very straightforward. There's really no trial-and-error when it comes to extremely basic things like "jump on this enemy" or "grab this rope."

The same can be said about DKCR. Only that it controls way smoother/more precise. Btw, NSMB has a fair share of waggle bullshit as well.

Sorry for getting way ot! Thread derail ends here.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Part of my attraction to DK is how the controls feel. Not the entirely silly forced waggle (which I'd be ok with if it was optional), but the rhythm you get into with the oddly timed double-jumps, grab-button and general feeling of momentum. You're right, it isn't as natural as Mario, but I think the slight differences are what makes it so fascinating to me. Something that looks like Mario and is structured like Mario but just isn't Mario is a cool reminder that just because I'm conditioned to one way of doing things, it doesn't mean it is the 'right' way of doing things.

It's like drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa, for lack of a better analogy. It's memorable both because of how similar it is to the expected thing and how profoundly different the final product is.

 

[AniHawk]

That still paints the picture that the game is below average though, which I personally think does it a considerable disservice. I can't really follow your thoughts about the level design, which I've found thus far mostly ranges from good to great. As for ideas or mechanics that went underutilized, I also find your pessimism unfair. Sure, it's always easy to imagine that much further beyond what a game already accomplishes (if one has an imagination to begin with that is), but you also have to evaluate it in terms of how well it fulfills what it sets out to achieve, and by that measure I think DKCR is pretty amazing overall.

The majority of the comparisons I saw were to NSMBW, and I thought that game was of a consistently higher quality, part of it due to Mario's move set, which allows for more creativity in levels. Actually, it reminded me of when Metroid Prime originally hit, and people were saying it was the best game since Ocarina of Time. It's kinda like the expectations vs. reality thing from (500) Days of Summer, only in video game form.

Sure, certain concepts or mechanics could have been taken further (and perhaps will be if a sequel is ever set in motion), but on the flip side DKCR does a great job mixing things up. I enjoy that they don't drive every gameplay concept that's introduced into the ground. The amount of individually tailored events contained throughout each world and that it continually throws new ones at you is part of the charm, whereas something like NSMB quickly became redundant, particularly if you had any familiarity with the old games. Comparatively DKCR goes out on a limb and shows true creative spirit much more often. In this regard I think it trumps even NSMBW, and I dare say handily.

My high point for the game was W5-W7. Lots of good ideas there, lots of good levels. If the game had maintained that level of creativity throughout, I would have at least liked the game. The 5-6 hours I spent there was good enough that I could forgive the other issues for a little bit. Then World 8 happened and the pile of bodies in the basement started getting bigger again.

Additionally, I think the level design is nicely layered and generally tightly knit. The differences between casually completing a level, collecting all the items, or doing a speed run make it clear how thoughtful and multifaceted Retro's approach was. I just hope some of that carries over if they ever revisit the Metroid franchise, as I thought Echoes and Corruption's level designs were somewhat regressive compared to Prime in that regard.

I'd be okay with another Donkey Kong if they really do something to make it stand out, but really, I want to see them do something on their own. Metroid and Donkey Kong both come with their history and sets of rules, so their hands are tied to a degree.

NSMB did have some shortcomings with the controls though, mostly of the variety I've come to expect of 2.5 D platformers (in short, a general lack of "tightness"). DKCR's sin is more a product of piling too many commands onto too few inputs, as well as a few weird timing issues. That's not to underplay the impact of those problems however, as they take a consistent toll what's an otherwise very well put together experience.

Other than that I found the basic running and jumping to responsive though. I also haven't found DKCR's quality to be as uneven as you apparently have. It's generally a brilliant game imo, which is what makes the handful of genuinely irritating flaws that much harder to swallow. They seem so clumsy and unnecessary compared to the more accomplished aspects. That's the thing that I find frustrating, and it's also the common thread I perceive between Retro's handling of Metroid and DKC.

Yeah, I didn't touch on the running and jumping either. I liked Donkey Kong's weight and momentum. It made sense, and was one of the reasons the other decisions relating to the controls were so... strange.

Not like, love.

Maybe DKC Strikes Again.

 

[AniHawk]

Yes, but when you're fucked in DKR you know in 99% of the cases that it's your fault. I guess Mario needs that "safe parachute" to make up for the problems of 3d platforming. Besides that, DKCR still has the jet pack if you need it.

Actually, I think about 80% of my deaths in DKCR were the game's fault, mostly the bad hit detection and bad controls. And the jetpack thing is weak. Mario's saving graces are built into his move set. Either spin in midair to carry you over that gap, or wall-jump off the bottom of some platform to get on top of it. With Donkey Kong, you need a power up that is part of the problem.

An example for bad SMG2 controls: The Chimp's point challenges. You need to master bouncing off enemies for that and it's infinitely harder than in DKCR.

I'd say that's more of an issue with regards to a 3D camera and depth perception and the like, and not actually controlling Mario. If I want Mario to high jump off one of those assholes, he'll fucking do a high jump. If I want Donkey Kong to do it, well I better hope I don't have a jetpack.

True, the hit boxes are rather unforgiving. Don't see the big deal.

Uh, when it takes away some health or causes death, it's a very big deal. This was one of the problems in the rocket levels too.

The same can be said about DKCR. Only that it controls way smoother/more precise. Btw, NSMB has a fair share of waggle bullshit as well.

Sorry for getting way ot! Thread derail ends here.

Well, I was talking about NSMB DS (which is just called "NSMB"). That can be confusing, sorry.

 

[JoeFenix]

Joe fenix, how much time to do all the time trials?
For the few I did, that's often in the 20 mn training, but for gold only.

Hmm, well obviously there are alot of factors that come into play here....

Most levels I got the Shiny Gold on within 20-30 mins of practice but in my videos I am going for faster times than even what the Shiny Gold requirement is so I do end up spending more time than necessary.

It really depends on the stages though, some of them are really tricky to figure out although people (including me) have posted videos online so you could just copy the strategy which would make it even quicker.

So yeah, it's tough to give a time estimate but I'd say expect to put in ATLEAST a good 20 hours getting them.

 

[_Alkaline_]

So this game is pretty awesome.

 

[daakusedo]

In 5-3, after the first checkpoint, you have two flower ennemy and a platform between them.
You jump on it and after roll with diddy all the next phase.
Me, I jump over all the first part and get to bounce on the spider next.
Do you try that? I don't know what's the quicker solution.

 

[JoeFenix]

In 5-3, after the first checkpoint, you have two flower ennemy and a platform between them.
You jump on it and after roll with diddy all the next phase.
Me, I jump over all the first part and get to bounce on the spider next.
Do you try that? I don't know what's the quicker solution.

Bouncing would be slower, you travel faster while using the infinite roll with Diddy.

 

[Amir0x]

You should really get around to playing Super Meat Boy and Super Mario Galaxy 2 then.

amen greatest 2D platformer in two decades hallelujah

 

[_Alkaline_]

amen greatest 2D platformer in two decades hallelujah

Yoshi's Island was released in 1994. Sorry Ami.

And as much as I love Meat Boy, DKCR is better.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I really love Meat Boy on a purely skill-based level, but the love of it is similar to my love of an expertly made flash game. I play it for hours, but when I'm done I just feel kind of... well, not frustrated, but kind of unsettled. I'm not quite sure what it is. Maybe it's all the death. Yes, that must be it. The repeated, heart-shattering death.

Although Omega (6-5, I think) may be one of the best platformer levels ever made.

 

[DieNgamers]

I really love Meat Boy on a purely skill-based level, but the love of it is similar to my love of an expertly made flash game.

Well, basically that's what it is, right? ;D Haven't played SMB yet but Meatboy was kind of great.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Well, basically that's what it is, right? ;D Haven't played SMB yet but Meatboy was kind of great.

it isn't really a derogatory statement. it's just that I associate flash games with constant and brutal punishment. granted, Meat Boy controls like an absolute dream.

 

[rhino4evr]

There are 242 stars.

Well that's what I meant..couldn't remember it's been a few months

 

[_Alkaline_]

Well, basically that's what it is, right? ;D Haven't played SMB yet but Meatboy was kind of great.

It's certainly one of the best in its field at how it approaches platforming. Bite-sized pieces of trial-and-error that reward skill that is built up over persistence and learning the game's flow. I love how it rewards you for learning how the game 'works', only to chuck in a new obstacle that stops you in your tracks, as if its saying 'think you're getting good at this game Alkaline? Well fuck you."

But for me it doesn't quite match DK. Returns is simply one of the most creative platformers I've seen in a long time. Granted it strives for a much bigger 'package' than SMB - I'm not talking length here but rather the combination of many game elements. SMB is very simplistic but masters what it does. DKCR on the other hand is filled to the brim with all kinds of shit, and 95% of them work and work brilliantly. The other 5% are either 'take it or leave it' or just annoying, though the only instance of the latter that comes to mind are blowing objects which from time to time can produce some fascinating results, but for the most part is just a way of halting progress and slowing the game down.

Returns is a very, very good game. I love NSMBW but it makes that game look almost pedestian in its design. Granted, NSMBW doesn't aim to blow us away with new mechanics every second step, instead it masters the basics of Mario probably better than any other entry in the series, but Returns rubs shoulders with the Galaxy series in sheer creativity. Every single stage feels unique and just as memorable as the last. Sometimes you'll start to think a mechanic has run its course and that you've seen all it has to offer, only for Retro to switch things up and turn the dial up to 11. These are the moments that make Returns so great - when it surpasses our expectations just as we are beginning to set them.

 

[rhino4evr]

I see it as a risk versus reward scenario. If you're trying to get to a secret area then Diddy's jetpack and extra-health will be invaluable, but the high-jump will be a tad harder to pull off, but if you want to risk only having two hearts and no glide and want to do it purely based on momentum, then Retro reward you for that by making the high jump much 'safer' to trigger.

There are a few levels where a jump off an enemy is basically required.

I did get better at jumping by World 5 but there were still ountless deaths attributed to a bad design decision. Your controls shouldn't change when you get what basically amounted to extra health.

I think my biggest problem with the mine cart stages was that there was a very very little room for error. A good platformer should give you more breathing room so that you can still make that jump even if your timing is just a little off.

But really if they would have allowed the mine cart levels to be hit point based and not 1 hit kills the frustration and the need to memorize the stage wouldnt have been an issue.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Really? I thought the only required highjumps were in minecarts.

I haven't played all of World 8 or the K levels, yet, granted.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

amen greatest 2D platformer in two decades hallelujah

I wish I could enjoy the game if it didn't crash on me every 15 min.

 

[_Alkaline_]

There are a few levels where a jump off an enemy is basically required.

I did get better at jumping by World 5 but there were still ountless deaths attributed to a bad design decision. Your controls shouldn't change when you get what basically amounted to extra health.

I think my biggest problem with the mine cart stages was that there was a very very little room for error. A good platformer should give you more breathing room so that you can still make that jump even if your timing is just a little off.

But really if they would have allowed the mine cart levels to be hit point based and not 1 hit kills the frustration and the need to memorize the stage wouldnt have been an issue.

I'm going to give Retro a pass here because the cart stages are very much in the mould of the original games. Just like in Returns, one fuck up in the originals
and you were gone. They were true to the SNES games and it's hard to fault them for that. If they made them too easy, people would complain that they're not like the originals. If they make them too hard, people would complain that it's dated game design.

And they introduced them better in this game. Minecart Carnage was in the first, what, eight levels of the original? And it was hard as balls the first few times through. Everyone missed that jump where the track escalates. Not to mention the kremlings at the end heading towards you. In Returns the first cart stage is much more managable, the only difficult part of the level are the fire enemies, as they're one-hit kills, but they are still easy to avoid.

 

[daakusedo]

In mine cart, you watch the right side of the screen and your done.
That works for all the levels too. That's crazy.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

they really should have just knocked a heart off rather than killing you. I mean, maybe it was super-hard on the game to actually figure out how to bounce you back onto the path during rockets or the mine carts, but come now, it should have been there.

 

[_Alkaline_]

they really should have just knocked a heart off rather than killing you. I mean, maybe it was super-hard on the game to actually figure out how to bounce you back onto the path during rockets or the mine carts, but come now, it should have been there.

This is something I'll agree with. Personally I don't mind the one-hit kills, because most of the mine cart stages are very managable (in fact they're probably some of the easiest in the game) but one-hit kills just from hitting enemies probably was a bit over the top.

But it's still just one of those "well I suppose they could've..." issues. It's not game-breaking in the slightest. At worst it's a frustrating quirk that some people will appreciate and some people will dislike.

 

[rhino4evr]

It's been a very long time since I've played The original games...but I do not remember the mine cart stages being so difficult ...but really it's the rocket barrel stages that I really hated. The one in world 8 was insane.. I super guided it, after about 40 lives lost.

 

[_Alkaline_]

It's been a very long time since I've played The original games...but I do not remember the mine cart stages being so difficult.

Here's Mine Cart Carnage from a random LP. And this is from someone who is experienced with the game, so this isn't taking into account new players. As you can see, the minecart levels in Returns aren't much more difficult or cheap than they were in the originals, they're very similar actually. Now whether or not one actually likes the nature of these levels is entirely subjective, but I don't think it's right to be too harsh on Retro for wanting to remain true to the originals with these levels since they're very pure homages. Like I said before, even though they do have issues that should've been addressed, no matter what they did with them they were always going to be criticised.

 

[Windom Earle]

Actually, I think about 80% of my deaths in DKCR were the game's fault, mostly the bad hit detection and bad controls.

Wow, that sounds like you're seriously doing something wrong. Of course you're very welcome to have your own opinion but it almost seems like you have a slight agenda against Retro.

I'd say that's more of an issue with regards to a 3D camera and depth perception and the like, and not actually controlling Mario. If I want Mario to high jump off one of those assholes, he'll fucking do a high jump. If I want Donkey Kong to do it, well I better hope I don't have a jetpack.

Of course, 3d platformers will always control worse than 2d platformers but this is not a good excuse in my book. Is SMG2 less precise than DKCR? Absolutely! Is there a way to make up for the weaknesses in depth perception? Probably not with current tech/controllers but that's still no excuse, it automatically means that DKCR has better controls. Mario will probably high jump off the first Gumba but then inevitably miss the second one
DKCR's "problems" can be relatively easy mastered while SMG2's are inherent.

Well, I was talking about NSMB DS (which is just called "NSMB"). That can be confusing, sorry.

Ok, never got around playing it.

amen greatest 2D platformer in two decades hallelujah

I really have to play the trial game again after the praise the game is getting. But GAF praise is usually useless....

 

[_Alkaline_]

Ani isn't shy of sharing controversial opinions, in fact it's a big part of what makes his posts compelling, but let's not go crazy in suggesting he has an anti-Retro agenda. :lol

 

[Datschge]

Why is nobody complaining about respawning enemies? Respawning enemies!

 

[_Alkaline_]

Why is nobody complaining about respawning enemies? Respawning enemies!

Because it doesn't matter?

 

[Why would you do that?]

Why is nobody complaining about respawning enemies? Respawning enemies!

Funny, I actually liked the respawning enemies. One of the reasons why is because the game has a lot of jumping and has some trial and error. So if you accidentally miss a jump off an enemy, you could just let the enemy respawn and try again.

I don't like respawning enemies in, say, Megaman. That's because if you kill an enemy at the edge of the screen, walk back one step, then forward, it will respawn. In DKC, you have to go a considerable distance away for the enemy to respawn.

 

[Datschge]

I guess I was the only one clearing areas and then just looking around in them (like for bonus rooms) with no urgency in the original DKC triology then? Besides the butchered controls respawning enemies is actually what I dislike the most in DKCR, it got beautiful graphics but it gives me no chance to enjoy it (non-disappearing health HUD as well).

 

[_Alkaline_]

I guess I was the only one clearing areas and then just looking around in them in the original DKC triology then? Besides the butchered controls respawning enemies is actually what I dislike the most in DKCR, it got beautiful graphics but it gives me no chance to enjoy it (non-disappearing health HUD as well).

Oh please, Returns has plenty of moments to stop and admire the scenary. Not that most gamers would find that a priority in a platformer anyway. Platformers are for jumping boy.

As mentioned above the respawning enemies can actually aid gameplay since they offer a second chance for a high jump.

 

[Datschge]

Well, it was one part of the DKC feeling that is missing in DKCR for me. *shrugs*

 

[_Alkaline_]

Well, it was one part of the DKC feeling that is missing in DKCR for me. *shrugs*

There's no doubt that Returns has a considerably different aesthetic and atmosphere to the original series (though parts of 3 do come somewhat close. That game was always a bit schizophrenic. It was constantly changing vibes). Which one you prefer is entirely subjective.

I do think respawning enemies and its 'negative' impact on the atmosphere is reaching though. Not saying your opinion is wrong or anything though. You know what I mean.

 

[Datschge]

I don't think it's reaching. I like trial and error (and the difficulty in DKCR besides the controls is not something I find bad at all), but I also liked the way DKC managed to soften the impact of it by removing the time limit and well as not having respawning enemies.

 

[daakusedo]

For collecting, that's just the better thing.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

Returns is a very, very good game. I love NSMBW but it makes that game look almost pedestian in its design. Granted, NSMBW doesn't aim to blow us away with new mechanics every second step, instead it masters the basics of Mario probably better than any other entry in the series, but Returns rubs shoulders with the Galaxy series in sheer creativity. Every single stage feels unique and just as memorable as the last. Sometimes you'll start to think a mechanic has run its course and that you've seen all it has to offer, only for Retro to switch things up and turn the dial up to 11. These are the moments that make Returns so great - when it surpasses our expectations just as we are beginning to set them.

You must be outside your mind. Its not even close. Galaxy regularly travels across genres in play styles. Galaxy's creativeness can't even be bound my its own genre. Can't say the same for DKCR.

 

[AniHawk]

I really love Meat Boy on a purely skill-based level, but the love of it is similar to my love of an expertly made flash game. I play it for hours, but when I'm done I just feel kind of... well, not frustrated, but kind of unsettled. I'm not quite sure what it is. Maybe it's all the death. Yes, that must be it. The repeated, heart-shattering death.

Although Omega (6-5, I think) may be one of the best platformer levels ever made.

While I really liked Super Meat Boy, DKCR is still the type of platformer I prefer. I am not a fan of "frustration platformers," but Team Meat balanced it out well enough (except for the bugs and some bad design decisions toward the later part of the game). I far more enjoy a platformer where it's a series of challenges one after another for several minutes instead of several seconds. DKCR's best is just the way I like it, just surrounded by... everything else.

 

[AniHawk]

Wow, that sounds like you're seriously doing something wrong. Of course you're very welcome to have your own opinion but it almost seems like you have a slight agenda against Retro.

I died no less than 60 times on Hot Rocket. Worst level in the game.