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Donkey Kong Country Returns |OT| Retro Studios Has Done It Again!
- Thread starter Tricky I Shadow
- Start date
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Agreed. I've mentioned it before, but these sorts of befuddling design choices in otherwise meticulously crafted games are one of Retro's hallmarks imo. I don't think I'll ever understand their knack for building rich, complex worlds and completely nailing the subtlest of minutia, yet overlooking the most basic and immediately apparent design flaws. I mean, think about the amount of testing a game like this goes through. So how does this shit slip by? It's a bizarre dichotomy. In the case of DKCR's time trials it's mostly forgivable, but the sheer needlessness of it can be pretty frustrating, particularly when you've repeated the same segment dozens of times. Same with the whole high jump thing. You just gotta wonder, why?Socreges said:
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Did the same composer do DCKR as the Metroid Prime series? Every time I hear the Tiki song, I'm like, "Metroid Prime?!?!"
yeah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenji_YamamotoMr. Wonderful said:
and world 8 is basically metroid prime world, both in terms of visuals and sound.
revolverjgw
Member
I'm on a minecart level (fuck them) in the cliff world and there's this part where I bounce across some floating enemies and have to bounce off one of them to clear a pillar. And I can't do it. I'm assuming I have to time a button press to gain some extra height, a mechanic that's never been required to beat a level up to now, but I've died like 20 times trying to get the timing down and I haven't nailed it once. And it's getting annoying having to replay the same level over and over to get one shot at trying again. Help me, somehow.
edit- nevermind, of course I nail it on the very next try
edit- only to die repeatedly again the next time I'm required to do it 10 seconds later
edit- nevermind, of course I nail it on the very next try
edit- only to die repeatedly again the next time I'm required to do it 10 seconds later
slaughterking
Member
I'm not sure what part exactly troubles you, but holding the jump button before landing on an enemy is all you can do to gain extra height.
brandonh83
Banned
jarosh said:
That's what I got out of it too, maybe that's why I liked world 8 so much. Definitely had more atmosphere and better music than some of the other levels. Probably my least favorite was world 4, it was just kind of bland.
revolverjgw
Member
slaughterking said:
Yeah, I just figured that out. It feels kind of odd to have to pre-empt the bop but at least now I know where I was going wrong.
Mr Sandman
Banned
Got it for Christmas. Fucking awesome game so far. 
Retro kicks ass. That tidal wave level kicked my ass though.
Retro kicks ass. That tidal wave level kicked my ass though.EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
revolverjgw said:
Traditional platformer jumping mechanics works where you jump and hold the button, then when you land on an enemy while still holding the button you gain extra height. Mario works like this, and so did the old DKC games.
DKCR for some reason abandons this idea. You need to press the jump button a second time to get that extra height. However, you dont need to time it with landing on the enemy, and instead can press and hold it before landing on them.
So lets say your objective is to ride the minecart on a track, jump off the track onto an enemy, then highjump off that enemy onto a platform. Traditionally you'd jump off the track and just hold the button, and you'd automatically get that extra height from the enemy. In DKCR you need to press jump to get off the platform, then press and hold jump a second time before you hit the enemy, and then you will get that extra height.
So think of it like how it used to work, where you still need to be holding jump when you hit the enemy, but that first jump wont work. You cant jump and hold to get the extra height. You need to jump, then hit the jump button a second time and hold.
My hopes for the next game based on what I have played so far...
--Better music (get Dave Wise, pleasefuckshitmother)
--Small complaint, but I want the screen zoomed in just a tad. I feel like the game is always zoomed out. Kinda annoying.
--Similarly, zoom in when Donkey Kong goes to the background. Having the background elements is cool, but I'd prefer it zoom in when it does.
--When the background is not in use, blur it and/or lighten the colors of it so that it contrasts more with the foreground. This is especially true for later stages where there's a shit-ton of stuff going on.
--Make the game easier earlier on and let it gradually get harder. The game gets hard too quickly, and I don't think my girlfriend is going to stick with this -- and we're only at the end of World 2.
--The controls are extremely good and snappy, except for the waggle. Remove it.
--See if anything can be done about the load times. They're not horrible, but I guess I've been spoiled by the DS and Nintendo's Wii games.
Otherwise, the graphics are pretty good, the level design is good, and the controls are very good (except for the waggle).
--Better music (get Dave Wise, pleasefuckshitmother)
--Small complaint, but I want the screen zoomed in just a tad. I feel like the game is always zoomed out. Kinda annoying.
--Similarly, zoom in when Donkey Kong goes to the background. Having the background elements is cool, but I'd prefer it zoom in when it does.
--When the background is not in use, blur it and/or lighten the colors of it so that it contrasts more with the foreground. This is especially true for later stages where there's a shit-ton of stuff going on.
--Make the game easier earlier on and let it gradually get harder. The game gets hard too quickly, and I don't think my girlfriend is going to stick with this -- and we're only at the end of World 2.
--The controls are extremely good and snappy, except for the waggle. Remove it.
--See if anything can be done about the load times. They're not horrible, but I guess I've been spoiled by the DS and Nintendo's Wii games.
Otherwise, the graphics are pretty good, the level design is good, and the controls are very good (except for the waggle).
revolverjgw
Member
EatChildren said:
Thanks. It's second nature now but it took me a while to catch on... and the game never forced me to have to learn this until I was 70% done.
This game is awesome, I might have to go back to the GOTY voting thread and update my ballot. I'm wondering what the heck is next every time I go into a new level. Feels good, man. It's a platforming clinic.
loosus said:
I agree with this. Pointless as usual. Milliseconds matter in games like this and I can feel the lagtime with the waggle controls. Doesn't break anything but I'd have more fun just pressing a button.
So I've been playing this, just got to World 2...
I like it, but it's lacking the "oh wow" moments and feeling that Jungle Beat and Metroid Prime both had. I haven't been compelled to go back and re-do any stages, unlike other platformers released this year (such as Galaxy) because it would be a bit of a chore.
I like it, but it's lacking the "oh wow" moments and feeling that Jungle Beat and Metroid Prime both had. I haven't been compelled to go back and re-do any stages, unlike other platformers released this year (such as Galaxy) because it would be a bit of a chore.
I like the game hella-more than Jungle Beat or Galaxy 2. In fact, there's a far, far, far greater chance I'll replay this one than I will either of those. Comparatively, I just couldn't stomach those other two a second time. This, on the other hand, is fun to play through to even collect everything.
The only Wii platformer that might possibly be better is New Super Mario Bros. Wii (although it had its fair share of problems).
The only Wii platformer that might possibly be better is New Super Mario Bros. Wii (although it had its fair share of problems).
About the time trials, I did a lot of them and the restart problem isn't one.
You don't have to do this because the checkpoint work in this mode.
And that's useful to understand how to do well a section of the level and not have to retry all the parts. I think the other shiny challengers will agree.
You don't have to do this because the checkpoint work in this mode.
And that's useful to understand how to do well a section of the level and not have to retry all the parts. I think the other shiny challengers will agree.
Garcia
Member
loosus said:
I say it again, if they get Wise for the next game, shit will be golden.
Think about the game zoomed out a lil bit more and imagine how frustrating it would be to die by invisible traps that are out of the screen. No, I'm pretty content with the zoom they chose.
I loved the depth of the levels when the game throws you into the background. No issues here at all.
Never found this to be an issue either.
No way Jose ! The difficulty is what makes the game so appealing to old-schoolers ! If anything the should make the game less forgiving and instead they should polish the gameplay mechanics. The horizontal barrel levels need a serious gameplay redesign, ASAP. It's frustrating to have delayed deaths just because you didn't press A for half a second.
Agreed. Tho' I actually felt the blowing mechanic killed the experience way more than the shaking did. As I'm doing the time trials right now the waggle feels 2nd nature, but I really would like to have my rolling assigned to a button.
THIS. Oh God THIS.
Wait 'til you try the Time Trials and then you're gonna HATE the loading times more than ever, specially the absurdly slow pause menu ! They have to optimize the game !
Shotgun Kiss
Member
I'd jump for joy if Wise worked on the soundtrack for a sequel (DKC2 music, please). Of course, I'd jump for joy if a sequel was announced at all, but I digress...
I love the soundtrack for DKCR, but only because of the remixes. Retro done a fantastic job of remixing the DKC soundtrack, but I can't say I care too much for the new tunes. They're not terrible by any means, but most aren't really too memorable.
Regarding the difficulty, the problem is that co-op makes the game *harder*, not easier, because of some quite frankly stupid decisions with the lives system. A single mistimed jump can result in 2 lives being lost. And it costs a life to "respawn", regardless of whether your partner is able to actually reach the barrel and tag you back in.
The difficulty is just right for hardened/older gamers, but co-op is a big selling point, and it should ideally make the game a lot easier for the benefit of family members/friends/girlfriends/whatever who don't have as much experience with platformers.
I love the soundtrack for DKCR, but only because of the remixes. Retro done a fantastic job of remixing the DKC soundtrack, but I can't say I care too much for the new tunes. They're not terrible by any means, but most aren't really too memorable.
Regarding the difficulty, the problem is that co-op makes the game *harder*, not easier, because of some quite frankly stupid decisions with the lives system. A single mistimed jump can result in 2 lives being lost. And it costs a life to "respawn", regardless of whether your partner is able to actually reach the barrel and tag you back in.
The difficulty is just right for hardened/older gamers, but co-op is a big selling point, and it should ideally make the game a lot easier for the benefit of family members/friends/girlfriends/whatever who don't have as much experience with platformers.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
EatChildren said:
It's because of Diddy's jet pack.
They want you to be able to hit the jet pack mode and hover at any point during a jump, ascending or descending. They decided to use a timed button press during the enemy bounce window so as to have the button otherwise free for a sudden jet pack firing.
In other words, let's say you're about to land on an enemy but something's gone wrong and you need to hover. Or for whatever reason, you need to fire the thruster.
If the button was already held down in preparation for a high bounce, you'd be required to release the button and tap it again - two actions.
The designers seem to have felt it was better to err on the side of encouraging instant jet pack access that wasn't conflicting with another input (such as holding the button down).
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
No removing waggle please. They work fine, just add CC support so complainers can stay happy.
I got this game from my wife for Christmas.
I am not a fan of the series. I rented the original DKC when it was first released, and did not care for it.
In general, I have never been big on platformers. I'm typically more drawn to games like Red Dead Redemption and Mass Effect.
I suck at Donkey Kong Country Returns. And yet - I'm having a lot of fun with it. I'm only a few stages in, but already I'm extremely impressed by the level design. I can certainly see how perfectionists and speed-runners would obsess over this game. I'm definitely not one of those people (some of you would likely cringe over how slowly I'm going through these levels), but I'm having a surprisingly good time.
Hopefully the difficulty curve will not eventually scare me away, but for now, color me impressed.
I am not a fan of the series. I rented the original DKC when it was first released, and did not care for it.
In general, I have never been big on platformers. I'm typically more drawn to games like Red Dead Redemption and Mass Effect.
I suck at Donkey Kong Country Returns. And yet - I'm having a lot of fun with it. I'm only a few stages in, but already I'm extremely impressed by the level design. I can certainly see how perfectionists and speed-runners would obsess over this game. I'm definitely not one of those people (some of you would likely cringe over how slowly I'm going through these levels), but I'm having a surprisingly good time.
Hopefully the difficulty curve will not eventually scare me away, but for now, color me impressed.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
Oh yeah, I beat all the levels in the game yesterday, including the
, and now I'm going to try and find all the puzzle pieces. I'll be drawing the line after that. I'm not going to bother trying to get gold Time Trial medals for all the levels, as I done a few already, and can't say I enjoyed them too much. The control issues that are near-negligible in the main game become huge annoyances in Time Trial, and combined with *incredibly* strict times to get gold, Time Trial runs only infuriate me.
Plus, there's also the fact that dying results in you being respawned at a checkpoint with the timer as it was when you died. This make it impossible to get gold, therefore necessitating a restart, which means that every time you die (and you will die a lot when rushing in Time Trial), you have to wait for the death/respawn sequence, pause the game, quit back to the map, wait for it to load, reselect the level, and then wait for it to load back up again. It's a huge pain in the ass, made all the more annoying by the fact that the checkpoints serve no purpose, since you have to do a level in one life if you want to get gold. They should have just made it so that if you die, it automatically puts you back at the start of the level.
Also, the difficulty of the game is fine in the main game, but in Time Trial, where you have to clear a level in one life, and you can't start with Diddy Kong (and remember that he can't be found at all in certain K-levels), I'm not willing to reattempt levels as often as this game would require me to if I attempted to get all golds.
The only levels I enjoyed getting gold medals in were the minecart/rocket ones, as since you're only on foot for a tiny amount of the levels, and the rest of them you're travelling at a set speed, they're pretty easy. I got all golds in World 4 (maybe not the K level though; I forget) for that reason.
Oh, and
can fuck right off for similar reasons. I can see that being easier than getting golds in Time Trial, but still a massive pain in the ass. And unlike Time Trials, which at least has a good incentive, I don't really see the point. It just seems tacked on.
All this is coming from somebody who got 100% in Super Meat Boy. I don't mind hard games. But I hate hard games which are hard for the wrong reasons, and in which a single attempt can take a while.
Golden Temple
Plus, there's also the fact that dying results in you being respawned at a checkpoint with the timer as it was when you died. This make it impossible to get gold, therefore necessitating a restart, which means that every time you die (and you will die a lot when rushing in Time Trial), you have to wait for the death/respawn sequence, pause the game, quit back to the map, wait for it to load, reselect the level, and then wait for it to load back up again. It's a huge pain in the ass, made all the more annoying by the fact that the checkpoints serve no purpose, since you have to do a level in one life if you want to get gold. They should have just made it so that if you die, it automatically puts you back at the start of the level.
Also, the difficulty of the game is fine in the main game, but in Time Trial, where you have to clear a level in one life, and you can't start with Diddy Kong (and remember that he can't be found at all in certain K-levels), I'm not willing to reattempt levels as often as this game would require me to if I attempted to get all golds.
The only levels I enjoyed getting gold medals in were the minecart/rocket ones, as since you're only on foot for a tiny amount of the levels, and the rest of them you're travelling at a set speed, they're pretty easy. I got all golds in World 4 (maybe not the K level though; I forget) for that reason.
Oh, and
Mirror Mode
All this is coming from somebody who got 100% in Super Meat Boy. I don't mind hard games. But I hate hard games which are hard for the wrong reasons, and in which a single attempt can take a while.
Kabuki Waq
Member
does this game require afirmware upgrade? i refuse to let go of the ability to play brawl from a USB stick.
Kabuki Waq
Member
Glix said:
??
CF_Fighter
Member
Just fired the game up, but I have a question.
Does this game fill the whole screen on an HDTV? I have it all set for widescreen and 480P on the Wii, but I'm still seeing the game in 4:3 res with the black bars in each side. Do I need to fix something else?
Does this game fill the whole screen on an HDTV? I have it all set for widescreen and 480P on the Wii, but I'm still seeing the game in 4:3 res with the black bars in each side. Do I need to fix something else?
Shotgun Kiss
Member
CF_Fighter said:
Something's wrong, as it definitely should be in widescreen, as should any respectable retail game these days (fuck you Mario All-Stars).
CF_Fighter
Member
I just figured it out, on my widescreen settings for the actual TV on that input it was set to normal not wide. Shame the Wii doesn't automatically set that up like the 360 or PS3 does.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Threi said:
They won't remove it.
I'm not sure if they will have classic controller options in the next one but of course I wouldn't mind for those that really want that.
I'll play it with the motion controls anyway.
On another note, didn't really like the remote only controls.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
Lathentar said:
Thinking about it, yeah, you're right. I must have remembered wrong. But that doesn't change the fact that if you do die, you still have to wait for the game to plonk you back at a checkpoint for no reason at all, since you're going to have to restart.
Garcia
Member
Dr.Hadji said:
That's true. I managed to get a couple of gold medals after dying and starting at a checkpoint. Golds are really forgiving, it's shiny golds the ones that make you realize Retro didn't think about us obsessive completionists that much. Implementing some optional features after entering Time Attack mode like auto-restarting the level if you get hit by an enemy or if you get killed could've seriously enhanced the overall experience.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
Garcia said:
Well, I don't know if I was completely missing something, but on the first level, for example, I had to retry quite a few times to get gold, and even then, got it with less than half a second to spare. There's no way I could have got it if I had died, even immediately after a checkpoint.
cooljeanius
Member
My brother and I have beaten World 1 now. I keep dying and he keeps getting left alone as Diddy Kong. One complaint I have is sometimes you'll press 1 to come down in a barrel, and either your partner won't notice it (usually a result of a lack of communication), won't be able to get to it in time, or it'll float down in an inaccessible part of the screen...
flintstryker
Banned
fuck the final boss fuck him fuck him fuck him
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
flintstryker said:
Which part are you having trouble on???
The initial attacks or the ones the next round of them???
flintstryker
Banned
both, initial attack isn't too bad anymore, but those fucking fire things he drop ARAGFGAFJKAHFTheGreatMightyPoo said:
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
flintstryker said:
Yeah, I was curious because after time, the initial attacks give you no problems at all.
I don't know what to say about the fire things, when I defeated him, it was in a panic more than total skill.
It sounds like you haven't beaten him yet but to make you feel better, he doesn't last long at all, especially for a final boss.
flintstryker
Banned
HAAHAHAHA I DID IT ADFWPUFOUP Took me 58 fucking lives but i did it !!!!!11